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#1
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Is this any good?
Do you know if this gadget works indoors? I don't have an external
aerial so I need an indoor one to receive FreeView without any extensive cables. https://www.freeseetv.com/tvfix/en/ --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: --- |
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#2
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Is this any good?
HW wrote:
Do you know if this gadget works indoors? I don't have an external aerial so I need an indoor one to receive FreeView without any extensive cables. https://www.freeseetv.com/tvfix/en/ idk, but I would rather make my own. Google: fractal tv antenna design |
#3
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On 1/14/2019 5:49 PM, KenW wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 18:30:03 -0400, HW wrote: Do you know if this gadget works indoors? I don't have an external aerial so I need an indoor one to receive FreeView without any extensive cables. https://www.freeseetv.com/tvfix/en/ --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: --- Use this site to find information about stations near your zip code. https://www.airtv.net/local-channels/ I live in Colorado about 16 miles from Denver. There are stations to the North and towards Denver (South). **How I receive stations depends how far away they are, my elevation and weather conditions**. Most UHF stations transmit above 470 mhz reception depends on many things like walls ,trees, rain, snow. I get strong and weak stations from the same towers. The advertisements for antennas you see never post the problems. ** very important KenW We have never had cable. I have an amplified RCA antenna that I bought for about $35, I believe at Walmart. We have about 8 stations that are with in about 40 miles from us. Most of those station have what I call point stations. ie X 5.1, 5.2 etc. Each point station has its own program schedule. To supplement the broadcast stations, I also have a Smart TV (Samsung) that is connected to my local LAN and can find just about any program type that I want; documentary, music, etc. The ISP provides 12 Mbps download, which is more that sufficient to get most of the programs that I watch. One of the things I don't understand is when I check the internet speed from the TV Browse, I get 3 or 4 Mbps from speedtest.net. When I check it through the ISP website I get 12 Mbps. Interestingly on the same LAN, I get the same 12 Mbpd whether I got through speedtest.net or the ISP. If you decide to buy an antenna, make sure that it is sufficient for the distance of the station. You can also determine what stations you should recieve and the strength at your location. https://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps By postal address, my location is about 16 miles north of me. To get an accurate representation of the stations I recieve, I must use a different address. -- 2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre |
#4
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On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 18:30:03 -0400, HW wrote:
Do you know if this gadget works indoors? I don't have an external aerial so I need an indoor one to receive FreeView without any extensive cables. https://www.freeseetv.com/tvfix/en/ Maybe. Whether a TV antenna will work indoors (that one or any other one) depends on where your house is located, where in your house you put it, how far the TV station's antennae are, and whether you have a clear view of those antennae, without mountains, skyscrapers, etc. getting in the way. A year or so I bought an indoor antenna and tried it. It generally worked well, but I had no reception for the station my wife most wanted, so it was never used. And by the way, your question is *way* off-topic for alt.comp.os.windows-10. I answered anyway, but for the future, please avoid such posts here. |
#5
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HW wrote:
Do you know if this gadget works indoors? I don't have an external aerial so I need an indoor one to receive FreeView without any extensive cables. https://www.freeseetv.com/tvfix/en/ Digital TV varies around the world, in terms of standards. It probably doesn't affect the range, although the "practices" of the industry, and the "support" by governments makes a difference. Strong Current Enterprises Limited, Postbus 202, 6670AE Zetten,The Netherlands, CoC Number - 7245331 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVB-T2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVB-T https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digita...o_Broadcasting So that appears to be a European offering of OTA TV (no encryption). OTA stands for over the air. To give an example of what happened in Canada, one province had a 250-350kW transmitter in the middle of the province, and a huge concentric circle of coverage. It covered virtually all the main population centers. That was in the NTSC era. With the switch to ATSC and digital TV, the massive transmitter was removed. Half the province as a result, has almost no (OTA) TV channels at all! When you look at the coverage, the coverage is horrible. The guy that runs cable TV there, is laughing at this. In my own city, one of the TV stations put a shabby *3kW* transmitter downtown. My Zinwell STB couldn't "see" that one. One thing I noticed, is the Hauppauge tuner card I got a year and a half ago, it picks up double the stations that the Zinwell did. And I don't think it's an "amp" doing that. Not every evil in TV is fixed with "amps". You amplify both signal and noise, until the RF front end is overloaded. On its own, the receiver uses AGC (automatic gain control) and has a range of around 1 million, between lowest gain setting and highest gain setting (10^6). The Hauppauge card I suspect, is using an extra feature of signal decoding to do error correction and this is giving extra sensitivity or something (it's a DSP technique that gives better equivalent noise performance). I can feed the Zinwell and the Hauppauge with a 1:2 splitter (equal signal to both) and the Hauppauge does much better. It can even "see" the 3kW transmitter (when it isn't raining). There is nothing magical about antennas. If you had an old YAGI from 1950 and hooked it to a DVB-T dongle, it would be just as effective as it was in 1950. The frequency ranges are similar. Modern channel allocations use fewer frequencies than in the past, which is why they're doing this (to rip spectrum away from TV and give it to cellphones or the like). The mistake they made in Canada, is continuing to have OTA TV on both VHF (2-13) and UHF (14-83). They should have dumped VHF and this would simplify antenna design. When both VHF and UHF must be received (for best channel selection), the antenna ends up being "three dimensional" and quite large. If the antenna only needed to receive UHF, you could use a dual bow-tie. This one being my favorite. That has 300 ohm flat cable on the end, and you connect a 300 ohm to 75 ohm coax (Balun) to that, to make the 75 ohms the DVB dongle might use. https://www.summitsource.com/Assets/...ges/AN4149.jpg It's possible that dual bowtie is driving my internal house distribution right now. I have more than one antenna, and plug in one of them as curiosity dictates. I also made my own antenna, which has 15dBi gain and is directional. And the problem is, you need to rotate that and point it at the stations you want. If all the stations in town, have their antennas on a single hill, then a high gain antenna is a plus. If TV stations are on several different hills, on different compass points, then you really need a rotator on the roof or something. If you mount your bowtie in the attic and carefully point it, it will lose around 6dB due to shingles and rain. An antenna still works inside a house, but there is still loss. As a test, you can continue to use regular rabbit ears (with a balun to convert the flat 300ohm to 75ohm coax) for a test, and the strongest station in town should be available for scan/test. VLC can play video directly from a tuner, but the feature only works properly in Linux. It's unclear whether there's even a good API for it to work in Windows VLC. And Linux has a scanning utility (W-scan???) that can give a dump of channels, and give some idea what channel IDs are coming in. If you use Windows Media Center (W7/W8), be aware that sometimes it continues to "listen" for NTSC, and doesn't even try to scan for ATSC, and there's a hack to get it to look for digital signals. This was part of the irritation when I first got the Hauppauge tuner card, is *no way* to test the damn thing out of the box. There wasn't sufficient software in the box. The firmware file for the card was *not* in Linux on the DVD. You had to download the file from a private persons server! Once the firmware was loaded, then W-scan and VLC made it possible to prove the card worked, and I wouldn't need to send it back for a refund. I hope there are some "warnings" in that description, as to what you face in terms of barriers to having fun. Once you are positive that signal reception is possible (via a Linux test run), then you're better able to face the Guide Data experience on the Windows side. Guide Data is what any recording application needs, to know that Flintstones comes on Wednesday at 5:30PM and that the recorder should start recording then. ******* The antenna is practically the last thing you have to worry about. Have you got the right TV receiving dongle yet ? Or a PCIe card ? With the normal "span" of signal levels, with perhaps one station close enough to receive indoors with a corn flakes box, it's the DVB/ATSC dongle or set top box and software issues that cause most of the hair loss. In North America, you can use TVFool to evaluate the transmitter layout, and whether a high gain directional antenna or an isotropic antenna give the best solution. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...edf2a217378 e In that example, Channel 10 is touching the "green" circle and would be what you use those old rabbit ears to receive. You connect the rabbit ears to your DVB dongle (with a balun), and point the center of the V towards 304 degrees true. Then enter a number between 192000 and 198000 in VLC. http://www.csgnetwork.com/tvfreqtable.html See, easy :-/ This was the way we were meant to watch TV. From our bomb shelter. It'll take you no time at all to get this working :-/ Hahaha. Paul |
#6
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On 1/14/2019 6:39 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
And by the way, your question is *way* off-topic for alt.comp.os.windows-10. I answered anyway, but for the future, please avoid such posts here. Considering how many good responses were given, I see no problem with his prefacing the post with the usual "OT:" -- best regards, Neil |
#7
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HW wrote:
Do you know if this gadget works indoors? I don't have an external aerial so I need an indoor one to receive FreeView without any extensive cables. https://www.freeseetv.com/tvfix/en/ Depends on how many OTA (over the air) digital broadcasters are in your area. I think the FCC requires all to broadcast and not just sell their content to the cable providers. I'm guessing you already are paying for cable TV and want to know if these antennae will give you the same channel line-up. Hardly. Look at what local stations are carried NOW by your cable TV provider and that's the most you will get with your own antenna; however, the cable provider might be injecting "local" OTA broadcasters from 50 miles away versus the max of 18 miles to the horizon for an antenna -- and that's only if you mount the antenna on a tower high enough to gets past groud-level obstructions. Also, the OAT broadcasters can have a weak signal so you can't get them, anyway. https://www.antennasdirect.com/transmitter-locator.html https://nocable.org/hd-antenna-coverage-map https://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps You could try that site to see what OTA channels are available in your area. The farther the transmitter, the less likely you'll tune in any channels from that transmit tower. Remember back when you had an analog TV antenna (probably just a couple of rabbit ears on the TV) and the few local channels you had back then? Well, that's what you'll get today with a digital antenna capturing the OTA broadcast stations. You can shop your local Best Buy and other retailers to get a "digital" OTA antenna, or shop at Amazon.com or ebay.com for them (search on "HDTV antenna") where you'll find equivalents for cheaper. https://otadtv.com/ http://www.gomohu.com/blog/cutting-t...-over-the-air/ https://www.lifewire.com/over-the-air-antenna-3276138 You'll be disappointed in the low number and quality (of content) of your local OTAs compared to what you are used to getting via cable TV. Since you have Internet access, you might want to instead check into streaming TV, like Sling TV or Yahoo TV, to cut the cord from your ISP's cable TV service. In fact, you might want to check if your ISP will offer a basic cable TV service tier that mostly just offers the local channels (the same ones you get with an OTA antenna). When I looked at getting just Internet service, it was more almost the same price as basic TV plus Internet. That is, as I recall, the price was within about $2 to $4 to get basic TV + Internet as to get just Internet alone. The quality was a hell of a lot better than using an indoor antenna (even with me mounting a pole on the balcony railing to get the antenna above the roof). Comcast Internet only: $40/month for 1st year, $60/month thereafter Comcast Internet+basicTV: $35/month for 1st year, $79/month thereafter (of course, Comcast adds a slew of "fees" to raise the base price) https://www.xfinity.com/support/arti...ed-basic-cable For the $19 difference, I'd get basic TV with Internet instead of wasting money and time on the very limited number of local OTA broadcasters in your area, or look at going to streaming TV provided you have a fast enough Internet connection; see: https://clark.com/technology/tvsatel...wnload-speeds/ Note: I am in the USA, so my response was biased on OTA broadcasting in that country. Usenet is worldwide and you didn't say where you are. --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: --- That is not a valid signature delimiter line (which is "-- \n", or dash dash space newline, not 3 dashes, space, and a spam string). Please stop spamming your choice of Usenet provider. |
#8
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In article , VanguardLH
wrote: Remember back when you had an analog TV antenna (probably just a couple of rabbit ears on the TV) and the few local channels you had back then? Well, that's what you'll get today with a digital antenna capturing the OTA broadcast stations. actually, there's a lot more than that in most places, certainly in major cities. |
#9
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On 14/01/2019 22:30, HW wrote:
Do you know if this gadget works indoors? I don't have an external aerial so I need an indoor one to receive FreeView without any extensive cables. https://www.freeseetv.com/tvfix/en/ The simple answer to your question is NO. Indoor aerials don't work with modern digital transmission. These TV companies want everybody to use cable channels or satellite TVs so that they can keep track of who is watching what . I was using internal aerial in the bad old days when we had analogue transmissions and when UK changed to digital, I had to replace my old TV and also get an external digital TV aerial. Now I've got FreeSat dish and Humax box because freesat has some channels that I like to watch such as CNN, Quest, First48Hours and other forensic channels. We have got Freeview channels but they are all boring and the news channels on BBC, ITV, channel4 and Channel5 is all about Brexit and Donald Trump. That is your evening schedule before you go to bed!!. Frankly, you don't need a TV these days because computers can give you everything. I don't have the time to watch any TV these days. There are very few live football matches and the highlights on Saturday and Sunday is very boring and opinionated by the TV pundits!!. They don't know that I can see what is happening on my screen!! So in short either get an external aerial or get freesat dish. It's a one off charge for the box and nothing more to pay. You do need a TV license whatever you use. Even using a computer to watch BBC you need to buy a license or some say you need to pay a BBC tax!. -- With over 950 million devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. |
#10
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In article , ? Good Guy ?
wrote: Do you know if this gadget works indoors? I don't have an external aerial so I need an indoor one to receive FreeView without any extensive cables. The simple answer to your question is NO. Indoor aerials don't work with modern digital transmission. they work fine These TV companies want everybody to use cable channels or satellite TVs so that they can keep track of who is watching what . separate issue |
#11
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VanguardLH wrote in :
HW wrote: Do you know if this gadget works indoors? I don't have an external aerial so I need an indoor one to receive FreeView without any extensive cables. https://www.freeseetv.com/tvfix/en/ Depends on how many OTA (over the air) digital broadcasters are in your area. I think the FCC requires all to broadcast and not just sell their content to the cable providers. I'm guessing you already are paying for cable TV and want to know if these antennae will give you the same channel line-up. Hardly. Look at what local stations are carried NOW by your cable TV provider and that's the most you will get with your own antenna; however, the cable provider might be injecting "local" OTA broadcasters from 50 miles away versus the max of 18 miles to the horizon for an antenna -- and that's only if you mount the antenna on a tower high enough to gets past groud-level obstructions. Also, the OAT broadcasters can have a weak signal so you can't get them, anyway. https://www.antennasdirect.com/transmitter-locator.html https://nocable.org/hd-antenna-coverage-map https://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps You could try that site to see what OTA channels are available in your area. The farther the transmitter, the less likely you'll tune in any channels from that transmit tower. Remember back when you had an analog TV antenna (probably just a couple of rabbit ears on the TV) and the few local channels you had back then? Well, that's what you'll get today with a digital antenna capturing the OTA broadcast stations. You can shop your local Best Buy and other retailers to get a "digital" OTA antenna, or shop at Amazon.com or ebay.com for them (search on "HDTV antenna") where you'll find equivalents for cheaper. https://otadtv.com/ http://www.gomohu.com/blog/cutting-t...-over-the-air/ https://www.lifewire.com/over-the-air-antenna-3276138 You'll be disappointed in the low number and quality (of content) of your local OTAs compared to what you are used to getting via cable TV. Since you have Internet access, you might want to instead check into streaming TV, like Sling TV or Yahoo TV, to cut the cord from your ISP's cable TV service. In fact, you might want to check if your ISP will offer a basic cable TV service tier that mostly just offers the local channels (the same ones you get with an OTA antenna). When I looked at getting just Internet service, it was more almost the same price as basic TV plus Internet. That is, as I recall, the price was within about $2 to $4 to get basic TV + Internet as to get just Internet alone. The quality was a hell of a lot better than using an indoor antenna (even with me mounting a pole on the balcony railing to get the antenna above the roof). Comcast Internet only: $40/month for 1st year, $60/month thereafter Comcast Internet+basicTV: $35/month for 1st year, $79/month thereafter (of course, Comcast adds a slew of "fees" to raise the base price) https://www.xfinity.com/support/arti...en-limited-bas ic-and-expanded-basic-cable For the $19 difference, I'd get basic TV with Internet instead of wasting money and time on the very limited number of local OTA broadcasters in your area, or look at going to streaming TV provided you have a fast enough Internet connection; see: https://clark.com/technology/tvsatel...reaming-speedt est-internet-download-speeds/ Note: I am in the USA, so my response was biased on OTA broadcasting in that country. Usenet is worldwide and you didn't say where you are. A lot depends on the topography between you and the OTA broadcaster. I live 50 or so miles away from my local station's tower, and was able to use a simple bow tie deep fringe antenna (~$50 or so) along with a signal amp to get all the local stations. And that was with the antenna looking out my picture window in the direction of the tower. If you have the wherewithall and the abilitly, a YAGI antenna raised on a tower should easily pick up stations 40 or so miles away, again depending on topography and any large buildings in the way. |
#13
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Tim wrote:
VanguardLH wrote in : HW wrote: Do you know if this gadget works indoors? I don't have an external aerial so I need an indoor one to receive FreeView without any extensive cables. https://www.freeseetv.com/tvfix/en/ Depends on how many OTA (over the air) digital broadcasters are in your area. I think the FCC requires all to broadcast and not just sell their content to the cable providers. I'm guessing you already are paying for cable TV and want to know if these antennae will give you the same channel line-up. Hardly. Look at what local stations are carried NOW by your cable TV provider and that's the most you will get with your own antenna; however, the cable provider might be injecting "local" OTA broadcasters from 50 miles away versus the max of 18 miles to the horizon for an antenna -- and that's only if you mount the antenna on a tower high enough to gets past groud-level obstructions. Also, the OAT broadcasters can have a weak signal so you can't get them, anyway. https://www.antennasdirect.com/transmitter-locator.html https://nocable.org/hd-antenna-coverage-map https://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps You could try that site to see what OTA channels are available in your area. The farther the transmitter, the less likely you'll tune in any channels from that transmit tower. Remember back when you had an analog TV antenna (probably just a couple of rabbit ears on the TV) and the few local channels you had back then? Well, that's what you'll get today with a digital antenna capturing the OTA broadcast stations. You can shop your local Best Buy and other retailers to get a "digital" OTA antenna, or shop at Amazon.com or ebay.com for them (search on "HDTV antenna") where you'll find equivalents for cheaper. https://otadtv.com/ http://www.gomohu.com/blog/cutting-t...-over-the-air/ https://www.lifewire.com/over-the-air-antenna-3276138 You'll be disappointed in the low number and quality (of content) of your local OTAs compared to what you are used to getting via cable TV. Since you have Internet access, you might want to instead check into streaming TV, like Sling TV or Yahoo TV, to cut the cord from your ISP's cable TV service. In fact, you might want to check if your ISP will offer a basic cable TV service tier that mostly just offers the local channels (the same ones you get with an OTA antenna). When I looked at getting just Internet service, it was more almost the same price as basic TV plus Internet. That is, as I recall, the price was within about $2 to $4 to get basic TV + Internet as to get just Internet alone. The quality was a hell of a lot better than using an indoor antenna (even with me mounting a pole on the balcony railing to get the antenna above the roof). Comcast Internet only: $40/month for 1st year, $60/month thereafter Comcast Internet+basicTV: $35/month for 1st year, $79/month thereafter (of course, Comcast adds a slew of "fees" to raise the base price) https://www.xfinity.com/support/arti...en-limited-bas ic-and-expanded-basic-cable For the $19 difference, I'd get basic TV with Internet instead of wasting money and time on the very limited number of local OTA broadcasters in your area, or look at going to streaming TV provided you have a fast enough Internet connection; see: https://clark.com/technology/tvsatel...reaming-speedt est-internet-download-speeds/ Note: I am in the USA, so my response was biased on OTA broadcasting in that country. Usenet is worldwide and you didn't say where you are. A lot depends on the topography between you and the OTA broadcaster. I live 50 or so miles away from my local station's tower, and was able to use a simple bow tie deep fringe antenna (~$50 or so) along with a signal amp to get all the local stations. And that was with the antenna looking out my picture window in the direction of the tower. If you have the wherewithall and the abilitly, a YAGI antenna raised on a tower should easily pick up stations 40 or so miles away, again depending on topography and any large buildings in the way. My understanding is the station itself doesn't operate the tower. Like a company jet, rare few are owned by just one company but instead a leasing company has several companies pay for the jet. The same for the towers. If you look at the links I gave showing where are the tower locations you get the OTA signals, there are several stations using a tower. So the station could be way over the horizon* (the farthest you're going to get with an antenna in or on a house) but they pipe their signal to the tower that is within reach of you. * At ground level, the horizon is only 2.9 miles away; however, the tower is above the horizon. If the tower were 100 feet high, the Earth's curvature would limit the line-of-sight to 12.2 miles. A tower 200 feet high would have a line-of-sight range of 18 miles. With a tower on a hill or mountain and with the tower's own height, the pinnacle height could be, say, much more but a 50-mile UHF line-of-sight transmission isn't likely. Your inside antenna pointed out your picture window at the tower means you can see the tower and that means it is not over the horizon and not the 50-mile distance you claim. To get a range of 50 miles with line-of-sight transmission (for VHF and UHF), the the OTA tower and your antenna would have to both be 500 feet high (500 feet gets to a 27 mile horizon, so double the distance if both towers were each 500 feet high). 500 feet for a tower is the height of a 40-story building. I doubt your antenna is anywhere that high. Since you said your antenna is at ground level, the tower would have to be 2000 feet high (166 stories high). Most "digital" (OTA) broadcasters are in the UHF range: 470 - 806 MHz. That's too high to make use of skywave propagation (bouncing off the ionosphere). Shortwave (at 30 MHz) will bounce. VHF and UHF don't bounce. Use the tower finder sites that I mentioned. You're very likely using one a lot closer than that 50-mile away tower. http://www.ringbell.co.uk/info/hdist.htm Keep putting in heights to see when you get to a line-of-sight distance before the horizon get in the way. For 50 miles, that would be a tower that is 1666 feet high. Your antenna is at zero height. That's a damn tall tower, or it's on a mountain side and you're in the flats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_high_frequency "Radio waves in the UHF band travel almost entirely by line-of-sight propagation (LOS) and ground reflection; unlike in the HF band there is little to no reflection from the ionosphere (skywave propagation), or ground wave." Despite what the ads show about all those wonderful mega-count of channels that you'll get for free using an antenna tuned to the OTA stations in the UHF range, the reality is the station count is dismal, especially after grouping the side channels for one station into a count of just one station. You'll see claims like: Over-The-Air signals are free and anyone with an antenna and a good signal can watch their favorite network TV shows and live sports. Uh huh. You're only going to see what the local stations are transmitting -- the same stuff the cable TV company injects into their channel line-up to include those same local channels. You'll also have to re-orient your antenna to get other stations within reach. For example, in my area, most of the stations are at 106-108 degrees heading but half a dozen are at 315 degrees (the ones for shopping and infomercials, so I wouldn't bother). Ah, the good old days of having to wiggle the antenna around. |
#14
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Paul wrote:
So that appears to be a European offering of OTA TV A bit wider scope than that, here's a map of the competing digital TV standards, they each have their outliers https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/Digital_terrestrial_television_standards.svg/900px-Digital_terrestrial_television_standards.svg.png |
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On 1/14/19 5:30 PM, HW wrote:
Do you know if this gadget works indoors?Â* I don't have an external aerial so I need an indoor one to receive FreeView without any extensive cables. https://www.freeseetv.com/tvfix/en/ --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: --- Digital TV Reception Maps. https://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps |
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