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#16
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PC insomnia
T wrote:
The bad news is that Windows is not a stable operating system. Have you seen a kernel panic ? That's a measure of stability. If you stripped the DE off the thing, I'm sure the core of the OS would be quite stable. The layers on top, not so much. Is Windows 10 a "usable OS" ? Opinions vary *a lot* on that. I can't run a benchmark in peace, on a Win10 machine. In my second benchmark run, some maintenance activity will randomly start, ruining my collected results. I can even wait two hours for the OS to "quiet down". Then, as soon as I run my benchmark, Lisa Simpson will start one of her maintenance processes running, to show who is the boss. Is the OS usable for benchmarking ? Nope, not at all! ******* It's the same with Linux. For the most part, the core is stable. A notable exception, is when new subsystems come online. When webcam drivers were placed in the kernel (instead of user space) for the first time, I managed to trigger a kernel panic, by using my webcam the second time. The first time, the webcam worked. I tried to open the webcam a second time and triggered a kernel panic. That was fixed in subsequent kernel releases. Back to stable again. But the kernel doesn't receive massive insults like that every day, so for the most part, the kernel is reliable. Usability of individual DEs is all over the place. Just like the DE on Windows. Paul |
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#17
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PC insomnia
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 10:52:44 -0600, Rene Lamontagne
wrote: On 12/28/2017 10:04 AM, Ken Blake wrote: On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:01:17 -0800, T wrote: The bad news is that Windows is not a stable operating system. I completely disagree. The good news is that you can cope by shutting down or reboot once a day I *never* do that--not unless an update requires it, or I am going away on vacation. And Windows remains completely stable. Plus computers are like car tires, the longer you use them, the quicker they wear out. I completely disagree with that too. +1 +1 |
#18
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PC insomnia
On 12/28/2017 8:52 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 12/28/2017 10:04 AM, Ken Blake wrote: On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:01:17 -0800, T wrote: The bad news is that Windows is not a stable operating system. I completely disagree. The good news is that you can cope by shutting down or reboot once a day I *never* do that--not unless an update requires it, or I am going away on vacation. And Windows remains completely stable. Plus computers are like car tires, the longer you use them, the quicker they wear out. I completely disagree with that too. +1 Rene I don't have a lot of experience with win10, but my Win 7 TV time-shifting machine sleeps until it's time to record, then goes back to sleep. Records 10-40 GB/day. It crashes about once a month coming out of sleep. I get some bios beeps and the boot hangs. If I reboot it every few weeks, this doesn't happen. |
#19
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PC insomnia
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Thu, 28 Dec 2017 16:23:51 +0000, Optimist
wrote: On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 22:47:31 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang" wrote: On 28/12/2017 14:34, Optimist wrote: Why is it that very often the PC keeps awake? The monitor switches off OK, but whereas sometimes the PC's light blinks indicating sleep, very often it just keeps going, sometimes for more than 24 hours. I know W10 has to do housekeeping tasks like creating backups of the operating system but surely these tasks can't take all that time? ... Did you turn off Defrag? And don't forget about Window$ Defender might do some background scanning when the PC is idle.... I haven't done anything to Defrag. Windows Defender not active as Kaspersky is running. Dah, I'm reading ze data from your computer now, to try to see why your computer, it is very often awake, Comrade, but is no answer yet. Comrade Micky |
#20
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PC insomnia
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Thu, 28 Dec 2017 10:57:36 -0600, Rene
Lamontagne wrote: On 12/28/2017 10:52 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 12/28/2017 10:04 AM, Ken Blake wrote: On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:01:17 -0800, T wrote: The bad news is that Windows is not a stable operating system. I completely disagree. The good news is that you can cope by shutting down or reboot once a day I *never* do that--not unless an update requires it,* or I am going away on vacation. And Windows remains completely stable. Plus computers are like car tires, the longer you use them, the quicker they wear out. I completely disagree with that too. +1 Rene maybe 2 :-) Rene Well, ze hard drive vears out. Doesn't anyone count zat? Comrade Micky |
#21
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PC insomnia
On 12/28/2017 11:49 AM, micky wrote:
Well, ze hard drive vears out. Doesn't anyone count zat? Comrade Micky Ya think??? Fans too. Let's not mention the stress on capacitors and silicon chips. |
#22
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PC insomnia
On 12/28/2017 08:52 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 12/28/2017 10:04 AM, Ken Blake wrote: On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:01:17 -0800, T wrote: The bad news is that Windows is not a stable operating system. I completely disagree. The good news is that you can cope by shutting down or reboot once a day I *never* do that--not unless an update requires it,Â* or I am going away on vacation. And Windows remains completely stable. Plus computers are like car tires, the longer you use them, the quicker they wear out. I completely disagree with that too. +1 Rene Hi Ken and Rene, This the only place I find anyone who thinks Windows is stable. If you guys are not being tech evangelists (fan boys) and are actually being honest, it is a good thing that your experience if different than mine. Means there is hope for Windows. Also keep in mind that I only get called when things go wrong. And, glossing over quality issues in Windows does not serve my customers well. Rather than smothering my customers with M$ marketing bull s***, I try to coach folks in the direction as to what will make Windows more stable. Actually shutting the damned thing off at night is a good start. Since I do not charge for five minute calls, when I show up at a bizarre Windows 8+ problem and simply pull the power plug and turn off Fast Boot, I do take it in the shorts. I do not bill for travel time and do not have a minimum charge. Hopefully they have other things that need fixing too, but quite often not. I make a good living off of Windows poor quality, except for fast boot. -T |
#23
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PC insomnia
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 14:46:52 -0500, micky wrote:
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Thu, 28 Dec 2017 16:23:51 +0000, Optimist wrote: On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 22:47:31 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang" wrote: On 28/12/2017 14:34, Optimist wrote: Why is it that very often the PC keeps awake? The monitor switches off OK, but whereas sometimes the PC's light blinks indicating sleep, very often it just keeps going, sometimes for more than 24 hours. I know W10 has to do housekeeping tasks like creating backups of the operating system but surely these tasks can't take all that time? ... Did you turn off Defrag? And don't forget about Window$ Defender might do some background scanning when the PC is idle.... I haven't done anything to Defrag. Windows Defender not active as Kaspersky is running. Dah, I'm reading ze data from your computer now, to try to see why your computer, it is very often awake, Comrade, but is no answer yet. Comrade Micky Haha! |
#24
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PC insomnia
On 12/28/2017 2:09 PM, T wrote:
On 12/28/2017 08:52 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 12/28/2017 10:04 AM, Ken Blake wrote: On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:01:17 -0800, T wrote: The bad news is that Windows is not a stable operating system. I completely disagree. The good news is that you can cope by shutting down or reboot once a day I *never* do that--not unless an update requires it,Â* or I am going away on vacation. And Windows remains completely stable. Plus computers are like car tires, the longer you use them, the quicker they wear out. I completely disagree with that too. +1 Rene Hi Ken and Rene, This the only place I find anyone who thinks Windows is stable. If you guys are not being tech evangelists (fan boys) and are actually being honest, it is a good thing that your experience if different than mine.Â* Means there is hope for Windows. Also keep in mind that I only get called when things go wrong.Â* And, glossing over quality issues in Windows does not serve my customers well. Rather than smothering my customers with M$ marketing bull s***, I try to coach folks in the direction as to what will make Windows more stable.Â* Actually shutting the damned thing off at night is a good start. Since I do not charge for five minute calls, when I show up at a bizarre Windows 8+ problem and simply pull the power plug and turn off Fast Boot, I do take it in the shorts.Â* I do not bill for travel time and do not have a minimum charge.Â* Hopefully they have other things that need fixing too, but quite often not. I make a good living off of Windows poor quality, except for fast boot. -T I am being quite honest about this, I am not an expert but classify myself as Having plenty of knowledge and experience (since 1975) on various systems, Windows is an extremely complex system which means I will never be an expert but mostly manage to tame it to my liking. I start it when I get up and turn it off when I go to bed. I do a lot of experimenting and break it when things go wrong, So I always have various copies of backups when required. When I leave it alone it behaves very well week after week, no problems. So yes It is stable, but I also have a good stable i9 system an an Asus motherboard and a good 850 watt Coolermaster power supply which all helps. Rene |
#25
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PC insomnia
On 12/28/2017 12:44 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 12/28/2017 2:09 PM, T wrote: On 12/28/2017 08:52 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 12/28/2017 10:04 AM, Ken Blake wrote: On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:01:17 -0800, T wrote: The bad news is that Windows is not a stable operating system. I completely disagree. The good news is that you can cope by shutting down or reboot once a day I *never* do that--not unless an update requires it,Â* or I am going away on vacation. And Windows remains completely stable. Plus computers are like car tires, the longer you use them, the quicker they wear out. I completely disagree with that too. +1 Rene Hi Ken and Rene, This the only place I find anyone who thinks Windows is stable. If you guys are not being tech evangelists (fan boys) and are actually being honest, it is a good thing that your experience if different than mine.Â* Means there is hope for Windows. Also keep in mind that I only get called when things go wrong.Â* And, glossing over quality issues in Windows does not serve my customers well. Rather than smothering my customers with M$ marketing bull s***, I try to coach folks in the direction as to what will make Windows more stable.Â* Actually shutting the damned thing off at night is a good start. Since I do not charge for five minute calls, when I show up at a bizarre Windows 8+ problem and simply pull the power plug and turn off Fast Boot, I do take it in the shorts.Â* I do not bill for travel time and do not have a minimum charge.Â* Hopefully they have other things that need fixing too, but quite often not. I make a good living off of Windows poor quality, except for fast boot. -T I am being quite honest about this, I am not an expert but classify myself as Having plenty of knowledge and experience (since 1975) on various systems, WindowsÂ* is an extremely complex system which means I will never be an expert but mostly manage to tame it to my liking. I start it when I get up and turn it off when I go to bed. I do a lot of experimenting and break it when things go wrong, So I always have various copies of backups when required. When I leave it alone it behaves very well week after week, no problems. So yes It is stable, but I also have a good stable i9 system an an Asus motherboard and a good 850 watt Coolermaster power supply which all helps. Rene Very cool. Good hardware does help. A lot of my customer use $400 cheap assed computers with power blocks for power supplies. (Desktop, not laptops.) Hey, it is a living. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyxJ7GKGFG0 |
#26
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PC insomnia
micky wrote:
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Thu, 28 Dec 2017 10:57:36 -0600, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 12/28/2017 10:52 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 12/28/2017 10:04 AM, Ken Blake wrote: On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:01:17 -0800, T wrote: The bad news is that Windows is not a stable operating system. I completely disagree. The good news is that you can cope by shutting down or reboot once a day I *never* do that--not unless an update requires it, or I am going away on vacation. And Windows remains completely stable. Plus computers are like car tires, the longer you use them, the quicker they wear out. I completely disagree with that too. +1 Rene maybe 2 :-) Rene Well, ze hard drive vears out. Doesn't anyone count zat? Comrade Micky I have a drive here with 38,400 power-on hours. Is it wearing out ? It still has a ways to go, to beat the one with 61000 hours. That one was at work (powered 24/7, ball bearing drive, no head park, no spin down, no power save, SCSI based). I would never have guessed a ball bearing would last that long. Paul |
#27
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PC insomnia
T wrote:
Hi Ken and Rene, This the only place I find anyone who thinks Windows is stable. If you guys are not being tech evangelists (fan boys) and are actually being honest, it is a good thing that your experience if different than mine. Means there is hope for Windows. Also keep in mind that I only get called when things go wrong. And, glossing over quality issues in Windows does not serve my customers well. Rather than smothering my customers with M$ marketing bull s***, I try to coach folks in the direction as to what will make Windows more stable. Actually shutting the damned thing off at night is a good start. Since I do not charge for five minute calls, when I show up at a bizarre Windows 8+ problem and simply pull the power plug and turn off Fast Boot, I do take it in the shorts. I do not bill for travel time and do not have a minimum charge. Hopefully they have other things that need fixing too, but quite often not. I make a good living off of Windows poor quality, except for fast boot. -T I can give an example of a chronic bad performer. I think it was WinNT on some lab machines, that used to crash pretty precisely, after a month of uptime. (It was like some kind of counter was overflowing, the bug was known, it wasn't my job to patch the machines :-) It was kind of a running joke, because these machines were not maintained by the IT department, and nobody seemed to be responsible.) I can't find any details online to provide more color than that. And of course, there were bad designs. The "old days" had all sorts of daft ideas, such as "cooperative multitasking". Which is just asking for trouble (expect crap like that to lock up once a day). Both Windows and Mac had such beasts. Windows 98, the networking stack was blocking, and there were certain network operations, that if an answer didn't come back, the OS would seem to freeze. Well, that's not a very good design (and the company that wrote the networking stack probably knows why). There aren't a lot of excuses left now. Everybody copies everybody else. We use preemptive multitasking, which does a lot to harden the kernel against Ring3 shenanigans. Windows still has Paged and UnPaged pool as far as I know, and that might be considered a weakness. Along with the current fascination with making Task Manager "gutless". WinXP Task Manager is the last one that was deserving of the name "Task Manager". The current one is merely "Process Status" and couldn't beat it's way out of a wet paper bag in an emergency. Paul |
#28
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PC insomnia
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 12:09:33 -0800, T wrote:
On 12/28/2017 08:52 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 12/28/2017 10:04 AM, Ken Blake wrote: On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:01:17 -0800, T wrote: The bad news is that Windows is not a stable operating system. I completely disagree. The good news is that you can cope by shutting down or reboot once a day I *never* do that--not unless an update requires it,Â* or I am going away on vacation. And Windows remains completely stable. Plus computers are like car tires, the longer you use them, the quicker they wear out. I completely disagree with that too. +1 Rene Hi Ken and Rene, This the only place I find anyone who thinks Windows is stable. If you guys are not being tech evangelists (fan boys) and are actually being honest, it is a good thing that your experience if different than mine. Means there is hope for Windows. I am anything but an evangelist. Microsoft does some things very well, and other things terribly. I am simply reporting my experience with my computers, my wife's computer, and several others I support. People who find Windows to be unstable invariably either have flaky hardware, are infected with malware, or have made bad mistakes in setting up and configuring it. Also keep in mind that I only get called when things go wrong. And, glossing over quality issues in Windows does not serve my customers well. That's like hanging around a transmission shop and thinking that all cars have transmission problems. Rather than smothering my customers with M$ marketing bull s***, I try to coach folks in the direction as to what will make Windows more stable. Actually shutting the damned thing off at night is a good start. Once again, I completely disagree. I'll repeat what I said: "I *never* do that--not unless an update requires it, or I am going away on vacation. And Windows remains completely stable." |
#29
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PC insomnia
micky wrote:
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Thu, 28 Dec 2017 16:23:51 +0000, Optimist wrote: On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 22:47:31 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang" wrote: On 28/12/2017 14:34, Optimist wrote: Why is it that very often the PC keeps awake? The monitor switches off OK, but whereas sometimes the PC's light blinks indicating sleep, very often it just keeps going, sometimes for more than 24 hours. I know W10 has to do housekeeping tasks like creating backups of the operating system but surely these tasks can't take all that time? ... Did you turn off Defrag? And don't forget about Window$ Defender might do some background scanning when the PC is idle.... I haven't done anything to Defrag. Windows Defender not active as Kaspersky is running. Dah, I'm reading ze data from your computer now, to try to see why your computer, it is very often awake, Comrade, but is no answer yet. Comrade Micky I've had my suspicions about you for some time. Your accent is a dead giveaway. Paul |
#30
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PC insomnia
On 12/28/2017 2:44 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 12/28/2017 2:09 PM, T wrote: On 12/28/2017 08:52 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 12/28/2017 10:04 AM, Ken Blake wrote: On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:01:17 -0800, T wrote: The bad news is that Windows is not a stable operating system. I completely disagree. The good news is that you can cope by shutting down or reboot once a day I *never* do that--not unless an update requires it,Â* or I am going away on vacation. And Windows remains completely stable. Plus computers are like car tires, the longer you use them, the quicker they wear out. I completely disagree with that too. +1 Rene Hi Ken and Rene, This the only place I find anyone who thinks Windows is stable. If you guys are not being tech evangelists (fan boys) and are actually being honest, it is a good thing that your experience if different than mine.Â* Means there is hope for Windows. Also keep in mind that I only get called when things go wrong.Â* And, glossing over quality issues in Windows does not serve my customers well. Rather than smothering my customers with M$ marketing bull s***, I try to coach folks in the direction as to what will make Windows more stable.Â* Actually shutting the damned thing off at night is a good start. Since I do not charge for five minute calls, when I show up at a bizarre Windows 8+ problem and simply pull the power plug and turn off Fast Boot, I do take it in the shorts.Â* I do not bill for travel time and do not have a minimum charge.Â* Hopefully they have other things that need fixing too, but quite often not. I make a good living off of Windows poor quality, except for fast boot. -T I am being quite honest about this, I am not an expert but classify myself as Having plenty of knowledge and experience (since 1975) on various systems, WindowsÂ* is an extremely complex system which means I will never be an expert but mostly manage to tame it to my liking. I start it when I get up and turn it off when I go to bed. I do a lot of experimenting and break it when things go wrong, So I always have various copies of backups when required. When I leave it alone it behaves very well week after week, no problems. So yes It is stable, but I also have a good stable i9 system an an Asus motherboard and a good 850 watt Coolermaster power supply which all helps. Rene Sorry for the blunder, I must have been dreaming when I typed i9 !!! I meant i7. Rene |
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