Wiping a Drive(s)

I want to give a desktop away, and seriously the 150Gig drives are of little use to me, so I wish to wipe it.
I've got image backups and haven't used the PC for at least 1 if not 2 years. So there is no loss no matter, it's a
security issue.

I have a copy of DBAN, are there any others better?

Big_Al wrote:
I want to give a desktop away, and seriously the 150Gig drives are of
little use to me, so I wish to wipe it.
I've got image backups and haven't used the PC for at least 1 if not 2
years. So there is no loss no matter, it's a security issue.

I have a copy of DBAN, are there any others better?

Better implies you think there is something wrong with DBAN.

DBAN has to boot to work. If it won't boot on
the computer, that answers your question. That's the
most likely way to put a stop to your fun.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120704...n.org/download

https://sourceforge.net/projects/dba...6.iso/download

Sourceforge has taken to using adware on some projects, so a little
care is required. This is a previous Virustotal entry for that download.
You should be able to get a checksum off this page, if you want
to compare the download of today.

https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/e...f737/analysis/

*******

You could run Diskpart from a recovery CD.
Run "diskpart" from Command Prompt, then enter

list disk --- make sure the 160GB is disk 0!!!
select disk 0
clean all
exit

and that would do it. Again, assuming you can
get the recovery console to work. If this was
a WinXP era machine, I would boot my WinXP installer
CD, as it will recognize the WinXP partition and let
you log into it. You must know the administrator password,
to play that game.

The diskpart "clean" does only the MBR. The "clean all"
can take hours, as it clears all the sectors including
the MBR. It's the equivalent of DBAN running in single-pass.

*******

There is Secure Erase. The person who runs this operation,
attended the ATA/ATAPI standards meeting, and had the "Secure Erase"
command added to the ATA command set.(And SSD drives
are the modern beneficiaries of this command.) And the program
provided on the site, gives you access to the command.
The command can be protected with a password. I recommend
using the default password (as described in the documentation),
as well as writing "Secure Erase PW = xxxxx" on the drive
body. So if another tech wants to erase using Secure Erase,
he knows the password to access the command. The password
is not set initially.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130118...ureErase.shtml

Inside the "HDDEraseWeb.zip" file download, is

HDDErase.iso 1,867,776 bytes

The project no longer has funding, which is why the web page
was removed from the original site. But archive.org has
everything you need, to learn about it.

I've tested it here, and it worked fine. The only
thing I consider strange about the process, is
the software "pretended" to know when the command
would complete. As far as I know, the command is
"relatively blind". The disk should not respond in
any way, while Secure Erase is running. Yet, the program
gives a time remaining count. Which I can only assume
is an estimate, rather than an interface on the
Secure Erase subsystem that actually is giving feedback
on progress.

You'll know when an enqueued Secure Erase command
is complete, because the drive will start responding
again. If you think a drive has been activated with
that command, simply leave the drive powered for
six hours, to give the command time to run, *then*
return to BIOS level, use Seatools or whatever else
you want, as the drive should be responding again.

*******

You can erase a disk using "dd" from Windows or Linux.
In Windows, you'd need to be able to boot from something
to execute the port of "dd".

http://www.chrysocome.net/dd

http://www.chrysocome.net/downloads/dd-0.6beta3.zip

dd if=/dev/zero of=\\?\Device\Harddisk0\Partition0 bs=4096

HardDisk0 is the first disk as seen in Disk Management.
Partition0 means "start at the MBR". It's a reference to
Sector0 as the offset. And allows copying an entire disk,
or in the example, erasing an entire disk from end to end.

By not specifying "count=", we're relying on "dd" detecting
EOF on the drive. This does *not* work properly on USB flash
drives, but works perfectly fine on hard drives. So the
command as formulated above, will erase an entire disk.
You can adjust the block size if you want. In some cases,
a slightly larger value might be marginally faster. (I find
new drives like 4096, and an old drive, 65536 might be
faster. YMMV of course.)

In Linux, from a Linux LiveCD, the command would look like

sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=4096

and the block device naming syntax is different.

In the case of both commands, *make sure* you're pointed
at the correct disk. You may be tempted to move the 160GB drive
to your technician machine, and boot some other copy of Windows
and run the command. If you pointed the command at your real
Windows C: drive, it could start erasing that and crash, and
that would be "all she wrote" for your technician setup.

With any erasure command, check and recheck syntax.

DBAN takes no prisoners. Given a chance, it can erase
99 installed disks in parallel. *Do not* leave a backup
drive connected to the computer, while running DBAN. It
may seem funny, to see people in the DBAN forum asking
how to recover their backup drive which is now erased,
and you don't want to join that esteemed crowd. The
crowd of people who think, somehow, you can "undo" DBAN.
You can't.

Paul

Big_Al wrote:

I want to give a desktop away, and seriously the 150Gig drives are of
little use to me, so I wish to wipe it. I've got image backups and
haven't used the PC for at least 1 if not 2 years. So there is no
loss no matter, it's a security issue.

I have a copy of DBAN, are there any others better?

I've used Active@'s KillDisk but I don't claim it is better than DBAN.

http://www.killdisk.com/

DBAN is more the old console-mode app that uses a menuing system (see
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=is...n+screenshots). KillDisk
uses a modern GUI that is probably safer and easier to use
(https://www.google.com/search?q=kill...hots&tbm=isch). I've
only used the free version of KillDisk. The payware Pro version has
more features. See:

http://www.killdisk.com/features.htm

You made no mention that the solution must be free although mention of
DBAN hints you are primarily interested in freeware.

While these are programs that attempt to rewrite the media to erase
access to any of its prior content, some drives include a Secure Erase
function that is even more secure.

http://cmrr.ucsd.edu/people/Hughes/secure-erase.html
http://www.fixitpnw.com/secure-erase-vs-dban/
http://pcsupport.about.com/od/termss/g/secure-erase.htm

That has the drive erase itself via its firmware. All it does is send a
command to the drive and it is the drive that does the erase. I have
not used this erasure method so I've never bothered to investigate which
drives or for how long drives have supported this firmware function.

I figure a sledgehammer will suffice. If someone goes through the
effort of gluing the platters back together to spend thousands at a lab
to read the magnetic fields from the pieces, they'll find less info
about me there than if they snoop in my postal mailbox. After all, you
did NOT say that you wanted to continue using the HDD so physical
destruction is a solution per your query.

Big_Al wrote on 6/17/2015 7:23 PM:
I want to give a desktop away, and seriously the 150Gig drives are of little use to me, so I wish to wipe it.
I've got image backups and haven't used the PC for at least 1 if not 2 years. So there is no loss no matter, it's a
security issue.

I have a copy of DBAN, are there any others better?

Thanks to both of you. I'm simply giving the PC to an organization and I was thinking of keeping the HD but I have a
few other small ones and I might as well give them a working PC & drive but erase it first. I like the dd idea from a
linux CD. That seems like an easy way out, I have several around to use. I'm always skeptical of downloads now a
days, sites do seem to pack junk in every download.

Thanks again.

On Wed, 17 Jun 2015 22:48:19 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

Big_Al wrote:

I want to give a desktop away, and seriously the 150Gig drives are of
little use to me, so I wish to wipe it. I've got image backups and
haven't used the PC for at least 1 if not 2 years. So there is no
loss no matter, it's a security issue.

I have a copy of DBAN, are there any others better?

I've used Active@'s KillDisk but I don't claim it is better than DBAN.

http://www.killdisk.com/

DBAN is more the old console-mode app that uses a menuing system (see
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=is...n+screenshots). KillDisk
uses a modern GUI that is probably safer and easier to use
(https://www.google.com/search?q=kill...hots&tbm=isch). I've
only used the free version of KillDisk. The payware Pro version has
more features. See:

http://www.killdisk.com/features.htm

You made no mention that the solution must be free although mention of
DBAN hints you are primarily interested in freeware.

While these are programs that attempt to rewrite the media to erase
access to any of its prior content, some drives include a Secure Erase
function that is even more secure.

http://cmrr.ucsd.edu/people/Hughes/secure-erase.html
http://www.fixitpnw.com/secure-erase-vs-dban/
http://pcsupport.about.com/od/termss/g/secure-erase.htm

[snip]

I figure a sledgehammer will suffice. If someone goes through the
effort of gluing the platters back together to spend thousands at a lab
to read the magnetic fields from the pieces, they'll find less info
about me there than if they snoop in my postal mailbox. After all, you
did NOT say that you wanted to continue using the HDD so physical
destruction is a solution per your query.

He stated that he was giving the system away.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Gene Wirchenko wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

I figure a sledgehammer will suffice. If someone goes through the
effort of gluing the platters back together to spend thousands at a
lab to read the magnetic fields from the pieces, they'll find less
info about me there than if they snoop in my postal mailbox.

He stated that he was giving the system away.

Since the OP expressed concern over any remnant content of his storage
media, he can still give away the desktop but without the HDD(s). Zero
transfer of storage media guarantees no data breach. No worries about a
software/firmware wipe not being thorough and removing all residual
trace of data.

If the old 150 GB HDDs are of no use to him, the same may be true of
whomever is within the OP's realm of candidate donees.

On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 09:38:47 -0700, Gene Wirchenko
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jun 2015 22:48:19 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

Big_Al wrote:

I want to give a desktop away, and seriously the 150Gig drives are of
little use to me, so I wish to wipe it. I've got image backups and
haven't used the PC for at least 1 if not 2 years. So there is no
loss no matter, it's a security issue.

I have a copy of DBAN, are there any others better?

I've used Active@'s KillDisk but I don't claim it is better than DBAN.

http://www.killdisk.com/
Do you really trust any program?

Even if you trust:
1. If the data was always encrypted by an external program, the
algorithm might be broken at some point in the future.
So, you'd better erase the data on the disk, even if
it never was in the clear on the disk.
2. If you use normal commands you don't get sectors that
went bad.
3. So you better get the disk to do what it thinks
will kill all of the data
4. Make sure you use a command that says really erase the
data, not just trash the on disk encryption key.
5. Although the disk may try, it still might mess some
now bad sectors (or spots that once had such
sectors) So somebody could get some of your externally
encrypted and then re encrypted data
6. I sure the internal erase stuff erases any flash and
memory cache data.
7. I sure hope any odd places the are not thought
of as storing data will get erased.
8. I sure hope that none of the firmware was hacked to
tell you it was erasing stuff when it didn't
9. I sure hope there are no unusual places for data
to be hiding, like changes in the magnetic media
or flash cache or memory cache behavior depending
on what had been stored there for a long time.

You want stuff to be secure for a long time
10. If you are thinking of grinding up the disk and electronics:
do you know how small the bits are? I think the 2012 numbers
( Seagate

(https://www.seagate.com/files/static...4.1-1110US.pdf
says about 2 million bits per inch and
about 250 thousand tracks per inch)
show pieces 2 mm on a side would contain complete sectors,
so they could be put back together in the future.)

(Flash memory and {static, dynamic} memory pieces might
not have to be as small, so dicing the components on the
printed circuit board might work.)

11. Melt the whole thing (Curie point might be hot enough, but
why mess around?)






DBAN is more the old console-mode app that uses a menuing system (see
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=is...n+screenshots). KillDisk
uses a modern GUI that is probably safer and easier to use
(https://www.google.com/search?q=kill...hots&tbm=isch). I've
only used the free version of KillDisk. The payware Pro version has
more features. See:

http://www.killdisk.com/features.htm

You made no mention that the solution must be free although mention of
DBAN hints you are primarily interested in freeware.

While these are programs that attempt to rewrite the media to erase
access to any of its prior content, some drives include a Secure Erase
function that is even more secure.

http://cmrr.ucsd.edu/people/Hughes/secure-erase.html
http://www.fixitpnw.com/secure-erase-vs-dban/
http://pcsupport.about.com/od/termss/g/secure-erase.htm

[snip]

I figure a sledgehammer will suffice. If someone goes through the
effort of gluing the platters back together to spend thousands at a lab
to read the magnetic fields from the pieces, they'll find less info
about me there than if they snoop in my postal mailbox. After all, you
did NOT say that you wanted to continue using the HDD so physical
destruction is a solution per your query.

He stated that he was giving the system away.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 06:18:29 -0400, Big_Al wrote:

Big_Al wrote on 6/17/2015 7:23 PM:
I want to give a desktop away, and seriously the 150Gig drives are of
little use to me, so I wish to wipe it.
I've got image backups and haven't used the PC for at least 1 if not 2
years. So there is no loss no matter, it's a security issue.

I have a copy of DBAN, are there any others better?

Thanks to both of you. I'm simply giving the PC to an organization and
I was thinking of keeping the HD but I have a few other small ones and I
might as well give them a working PC & drive but erase it first. I
like the dd idea from a linux CD. That seems like an easy way out, I
have several around to use. I'm always skeptical of downloads now a
days, sites do seem to pack junk in every download.

Thanks again.

I find your last comment and Paul's post somewhat interesting. Are you
really worried about what you download to a drive destined to be wiped.
I find the dd command to be the easiest to use for lots of things, like
putting an .iso file on a usb stick, although lately I've used the built
in usb image writer, which I suspect just uses dd anyway.

Mark F wrote:


Even if you trust:
1. If the data was always encrypted by an external program, the
algorithm might be broken at some point in the future.
So, you'd better erase the data on the disk, even if
it never was in the clear on the disk.
2. If you use normal commands you don't get sectors that
went bad.
3. So you better get the disk to do what it thinks
will kill all of the data
4. Make sure you use a command that says really erase the
data, not just trash the on disk encryption key.
5. Although the disk may try, it still might mess some
now bad sectors (or spots that once had such
sectors) So somebody could get some of your externally
encrypted and then re encrypted data
6. I sure the internal erase stuff erases any flash and
memory cache data.
7. I sure hope any odd places the are not thought
of as storing data will get erased.
8. I sure hope that none of the firmware was hacked to
tell you it was erasing stuff when it didn't
9. I sure hope there are no unusual places for data
to be hiding, like changes in the magnetic media
or flash cache or memory cache behavior depending
on what had been stored there for a long time.


There are a couple steps you can use for concern
at this level.

1) Boot a Linux CD and use the tool they've got, to check
for an HPA. Only one HPA command can be issued per boot
session, so it may take several reboots before your
job is done. (This is a hardware feature of HPA command
subset, where only one operation can be issued per session,
as a sort of "trap door" thing.)

You want the claimed capacity of the drive, to match
the manufacturer spec sheet, to make sure none of
the capacity is hidden in an HPA. HPAs are typically used
on OEM computers, and they're not typically used for user data.

Still, if your boss says "be paranoid", you do (1).

2) Using the ATA command set Secure Erase, there is an
Enhanced Secure Erase command. It's purpose is to *attempt* to
erase reallocated blocks (both the original block and the
substitute block). Regular secure erase would cover
the in-service block, and not touch the original
(no longer usable) block.

The MFM (magnetic force microscope) was proposed as a way
to read "erased" drives. But modern drives, the fringe
between tracks is now pretty clean. Even if you make just
a one-pass erasure, there's practically nothing to recover
by spending two years on a platter with an MFM. The scanning
area is supposed to be on the order of 100 microns on a side.
And then the platter has to be moved to the next site. And
the scans would need to be overlapped and matched, to make
a larger image. That's a lot of work.

On the old separate-servo drives of 30 years ago,
you could push the heads off track on purpose,
and attempt to read out there. In those days, you
wouldn't need the MFM, and could attempt that
sort of recovery with the drive itself. But embedded
servo drives, I don't think they have any half-track
offset. And that is where scanning with the MFM comes in.
To build a surface map of magnetism, with 100 micron on
edge patches.

Paul

On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 14:33:22 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

Gene Wirchenko wrote:

[snip]

He stated that he was giving the system away.

Since the OP expressed concern over any remnant content of his storage
media, he can still give away the desktop but without the HDD(s). Zero
transfer of storage media guarantees no data breach. No worries about a
software/firmware wipe not being thorough and removing all residual
trace of data.

If the old 150 GB HDDs are of no use to him, the same may be true of
whomever is within the OP's realm of candidate donees.

There is always the technique of not assuming that you know. It
is entirely possibly that he plans to give the complete system away.
That he did not ask about disposal of the drive tends to support that.
Of course, we do not know.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

On 18/06/2015 00:23, Big_Al wrote:
I want to give a desktop away, and seriously the 150Gig drives are of
little use to me, so I wish to wipe it.
I've got image backups and haven't used the PC for at least 1 if not 2
years. So there is no loss no matter, it's a security issue.

I have a copy of DBAN, are there any others better?

What did you have on your machine that makes you very conscious of
security. I would have thought that simple format would be sufficient
for most people unless you were up to something illegal. Just wondered.
Most people I deal with haven't got a clue how to recover their deleted
files so recovering from a formatted hard drive is like rocket science
for them.

On Fri, 19 Jun 2015 21:20:00 +0100, Good Guy wrote:

On 18/06/2015 00:23, Big_Al wrote:
I want to give a desktop away, and seriously the 150Gig drives are of
little use to me, so I wish to wipe it.
I've got image backups and haven't used the PC for at least 1 if not 2
years. So there is no loss no matter, it's a security issue.

I have a copy of DBAN, are there any others better?

What did you have on your machine that makes you very conscious of
security. I would have thought that simple format would be sufficient
for most people unless you were up to something illegal. Just wondered.
Most people I deal with haven't got a clue how to recover their deleted
files so recovering from a formatted hard drive is like rocket science
for them.


html
head
meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"
/head
body bgcolor="#FFFFCC" text="#000000"
div class="moz-cite-prefix"On 18/06/2015 00:23, Big_Al wrote:br
/div
blockquote " type="cite"I want
to give a desktop away, and seriously the 150Gig drives are of
little use to me, so I wish to wipe it.
br
I've got image backups and haven't used the PC for at least 1 if
not 2 years.Â*Â*Â* So there is no loss no matter, it's a security
issue.
br
br
I have a copy of DBAN, are there any others better?
br
/blockquote
br
font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"What did you have on your
machine that makes you very conscious of security.Â* I would have
thought that simple format would be sufficient for most people
unless you were up to something illegal.Â* Just wondered./font
Most people I deal with haven't got a clue how to recover their
deleted files so recovering from a formatted hard drive is like
rocket science for them.br
br
br
/body
/html

Well he isn't worried about most people, just those who might want to
poke around a discarded hd. I agree some of the claims made by some are a
bit ridiculous, but untreated files can be recovered. A simple overwrite
is sufficient.
Talking of most people, most people don't include a bunch of html code in
their posts.

On 19/06/2015 21:39, David G Cohen wrote:
Talking of most people, most people don't include a bunch of html code
in their posts.

First, I am not a member of "Most people's Club" so rule me out from
your comment;

Second, most people here are technical minded and they don't see any of
my HTML codes but clearly you also don't belong to most intelligent
people I convey my message to. Cohen is ruled out and included in my
kill filter to delete stupid comments. I like to hear from Intelligent
people intelligent comments only. i don't take hostages.

Gene Wirchenko wrote on 6/19/2015 12:26 PM:
On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 14:33:22 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

Gene Wirchenko wrote:

[snip]

He stated that he was giving the system away.

Since the OP expressed concern over any remnant content of his storage
media, he can still give away the desktop but without the HDD(s). Zero
transfer of storage media guarantees no data breach. No worries about a
software/firmware wipe not being thorough and removing all residual
trace of data.

If the old 150 GB HDDs are of no use to him, the same may be true of
whomever is within the OP's realm of candidate donees.

There is always the technique of not assuming that you know. It
is entirely possibly that he plans to give the complete system away.
That he did not ask about disposal of the drive tends to support that.
Of course, we do not know.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Yes, I'm giving the system away to someone that may put it to use. Just the PC part. I've DBAN'd it and loaded Linux
17.1 on it more to see if it would run faster with Linux than Windows 7. Aaaaa so so. It's a really dead horse.
But Linux is a bit faster.

What was more fun was playing with a desktop that is 1280x1024 and not the 1366x768 laptop I have. I do love larger
square format monitors, you can get so much on the desktop. Web pages in particular. Since it's been years since this
one has been on, I've close to forgotten how nice that is.

Gene Wirchenko wrote:


And that same logic applies to you. The fact is, you can't walk or talk
without assuming something.

It is entirely possibly ...

And there you go assuming.

Notice that I did offer methods to wipe the HDD(s) whether they were
going with the old computer, distributed elsewhere, or going in a
drawer. The physical destruction method was just another choice. Since
he is donating his old computer, it is entirely up to him whether or not
the HDD(s) go with it.

Most readers would have to assume that the HDD(s) was(were) going with
the donated computer. So don't give me the inane crap about not
assuming something when you assumed as well I did as well as everyone
else. Communication cannot exist without some assumption which may
later be corrected or amended.