A Windows XP help forum. PCbanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PCbanter forum » Microsoft Windows XP » Windows XP Help and Support
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

How to use Acronis to backup o/s ?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #91  
Old January 24th 09, 05:25 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Bill in Co.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,106
Default How to use Acronis to backup o/s ?

Anna wrote:
"Richie Hardwick" wrote in message
It's interesting that she's not replied to any of this.



"Daave" wrote in message
...
She will. :-)



Daave, Wally, Richie, et al...
And so I am...

And humbly too.

I was apparently mistaken re my last post to "Daave" re the cloning of a
source HDD containing multiple partitions - in Daave's example, three
partitions. I used as an example that the C: partition was 50 GB, a second
D: partition of 125 GB, and a third E: partition of 75 GB. The example
assumed a 500 GB external HDD was to be used as the destination drive and
had been set up with two partitions of 200 GB and 300 GB. The 200 GB
partition was destined to be the recipient of the contents of the source
HDD; presumably the 300 GB partition contained user data.

I stated (mistakenly) that one could clone the entire contents of the
source
HDD to *one* of the two partitions on the destination drive (in the
example,
the 200 GB partition) and the Casper 5 program would proportionally
allocate
disk-space for each of those source drive's three partitions on that
single
200 GB partition of the destination drive. So that the former 200 GB
partition on the destination HDD would, in effect, be split up
(proportionally) with three separate partitions mirroring the source HDD's
partitions. Mistakenly, and this is the important part, I indicated that
the
second 300 GB partition presumably containing user data would remain
untouched.

The information I provided was wrong. While it is indeed possible for the
user to easily clone the contents of the source drive's three partitions
(in
our example) to the destination HDD and, using the Casper program, set up
the size of each of those three partitions on the destination drive, any
remaining disk space would be considered "unallocated". That second
partition (in our example) that previously existed on the destination HDD
would disappear (along with its data, of course!) and become part of the
"unallocated" disk space. Richie correctly pointed out my mistake in this
regard.

My only excuse (as flimsy as it might be!) is that the scenario I
described
*did* exist at one time in the Casper program. I can't recall whether it
was
part of the predecessor Casper 4 program or, more likely, a beta version
of
one of the Casper versions I worked with in the past. It might even have
existed in an earlier "build" of Casper 5. I just can't remember. But in
any
event that capability I described does not exist in the Casper 5 program.
Obviously I hadn't used the current 5 version in the manner I had
described.
I should have tested it out to make certain the info I was providing was
correct, but I didn't.

So my apologies to all of you for the misinformation.

In any event, here's (I hope & trust!) the *real* story...

In the example given above involving a source HDD with three partitions,
the
user would have the following options re cloning the contents of that
source
HDD (the three partitions) to the destination drive, a 500 GB HDD...

1. He or she could allow the Casper program to proportionally create the
three partitions on the 500 GB destination drive (466 GB binary). So that
in
the example given the first partition on the destination HDD would be
(approx) 102 GB, the second partition 248 GB, and the third partition 116
GB. So that the entire disk space of the destination drive would be used
to
hold the contents of the source disk.(Again, all figures approximate); or,

2. The user could perform a disk-to-disk clone in which case the three
partitions created on the destination drive would mirror the disk-space of
each of the three source drive's partitions (and of course, contain their
contents). The remaining disk space would be unallocated.

3. The user could specify how the disk space is to be allotted, in effect
resizing the three destination drive partitions to whatever size he or she
desires, naturally assuming the individual partition size would be
sufficient to contain the contents of the source drive's partition. Again,
the remaining disk space would be unallocated.

Again, my apologies to all for the misinformation I previously provided
and
for any inconvenience it may have caused anyone.
Anna


OK, thanks Anna, and that at least clarifies something for me. I know we
(or some of us) have been discussing this a long time, but there really is a
lot to it, when you get into it, in detail, and try to be completely
accurate.

I guess the bottom line is this then: if you use Casper for cloning and
backup purposes, you can NOT have any other partition data on the
destination drive (as it will be removed). Now THAT is a serious
consideration, and gives one main advantage to using imaging, as you can
store as many image backups on the destination drive (AND other partitions
with data) as you want. But for simple backup purposes, and for many
users, it might be fine, and is probably simpler. I liked all the options
offered by ATI better, however, but many users might be put off by that, as
you've suggested.

Boot-It-NG (or PM), OTOH, makes (or can make) partition-to-partition copies
AND lets you preserve the other partitions, if there is enough space.

However, in order to make a so called partition to partition copy, the
destination partition area of the drive needs to be first deleted (i.e,
marked as unallocated space), and only THEN you you copy the partition over
to the destination drive (in that freed space). It is a true partition
copy, and NOT an image or single file. I'd call it a "cloned partition".
And it is an EXACT replica of what was on the source drive (no compression).


Ads
  #92  
Old January 24th 09, 05:26 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Bill in Co.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,106
Default How to use Acronis to backup o/s ?

Richie Hardwick wrote:
On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 20:14:40 -0700, "Bill in Co."
wrote:

Richie Hardwick wrote:
I wrote:

You guys have fun with Bill (and Anna). The two of them have been
back and forth on this since last Spring.

Actually, since last February 18th when it all began between the two
of them.

In one of his posts, Bill replied to "Kenneth"...

==============
Kenneth wrote:

SNIP

Hi Anna,
I am certainly part of that "vast, if not overwhelming
majority" who understands nothing about the difference
between "cloning" and "imaging."

Can you describe that to me?

Sincere thanks,
--
Kenneth

In a nutshell, how about this synopsis:

Cloning makes a good copy, but not an exact copy, of the original
source partition(s).

Imaging, OR "partition copying", makes an *exact* copy of the original
source partition(s).

==============


Except that your "synopsis" is incorrect - and inadequate in detail.
And imaging is not the same thing as partition copying (if so implied).

I think Bill has learned something about cloning since he posted that.


It seems you haven't, if you believe your synopsis.


The synopsis was YOURS Bill old boy. The material between the dashed
lines is a copy of a post you made on Feb. 18 of last year.


Well, if I wrote that synopsis back then, I was wrong!


  #93  
Old January 24th 09, 07:28 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
The Max
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default How to use Acronis to backup o/s ?

After much spirited debate, I think a summary is called for.
Keep in mind that I own both Casper and Acronis True Image
and use both on a daily basis.

/Anna Mode ON - with apologies

There is much interest in making a backup of one's system disk.
The two most frequently used methods involve making a clone of
the disk, or making an image of the disk.

CLONING
Cloning makes an exact copy of your system disk on another
disk. IT REQUIRES FULL USE OF THE SECOND DISK, either internal
or external.

That disk is then bootable, the same as the system disk. If the
original disk physically fails, it can be replaced with the
cloned disk. If the cloned disk is an internal disk and the
BIOS permits, then one merely needs to set it first in the boot
order and run with it. Windows will load normally and all the
settings/programs will be the same as on the original disk as if
nothing had happened.

If the cloned disk is used as a backup in case the system disk
gets fried (Windows gets badly messed up and won't boot, or
boots with everything screwed up), the clone can be used to
"reverse clone" to the system disk, restoring it to operation.
A bootable CD with the cloning software will be needed to
accomplish that restoration.

If one only wants to restore selected portions of the system
disk - as when data gets accidentally deleted - that data can be
copied from the clone and pasted to the system disk.

IMAGING
Imaging your system disk makes a file - usually a compressed
and proprietary file, only usable by the imaging program. It
should be made/stored on a second disk - either internal or
external.

IMAGING DOES NOT REQUIRE FULL USE OF THE SECOND DISK.

You can make as many images (or incremental images to the
original) as there is space available on that second disk. A
full image is normally smaller than the data that is contained
on the source disk. An incremental (update of a full image) is
much smaller than the full image.

If the system disk physically fails, a new disk must be
installed. One then uses the imaging program to restore
everything to the new disk.

If the system disk gets "fried" - as in Windows won't load,
etc. - restoration is performed to that disk.

A bootable CD with the imaging program on it will be required
to make the restoration

CASPER 5.0
Casper makes the clone from within Windows, and it can make
incremental clones - updates to that clone - saving a lot of
time for those who make frequent clones. How long the original
clone takes - or how long the incremental clone takes - depends
on the amount of data on the source disk.

NOTE 1: CASPER CAN ONLY MAKE CLONES. It cannot make
images.

NOTE 2: CASPER REQUIRES FULL USE OF THE SECOND DISK.

NOTE 3: If the clone has been made to an external disk, the
restoration process will require having a bootable CD with
Casper on it. That will cost and additional $10 as it is not
provided when one spends the $50 to purchase the Casper program.

ACRONIS TRUE IMAGE 2009
Acronis True Image 2009 (and previous versions) can also make a
clone but after setting up the cloning process, a reboot is
required and the cloning is completed outside of Windows. It
cannot make "incremental clones", so one will need to make an
entirely NEW clone to keep the clone updated.

The cloning is a bit faster than Casper's full clone, but
updates - since they are also a full clone - take a lot more time
than Casper's incremental cloning.

HOWEVER... Acronis True Image CAN ALSO MAKE IMAGES - complete
and incremental, manually or on a schedule - and it makes them
from within Windows. Remember that one can make as many images
over time as one wants to make, limited only by the space on the
receiving disk.

IMAGING DOES NOT REQUIRE FULL USE OF A SECOND DISK.

Acronis True Image can also make images of selected
data/files/directories - at your choosing - either manually or
on a schedule.

AND... one doesn't have to copy and paste to restore selected
files/directories: one can browse those images with ATI and
selectively restore from them as needed.

Acronis does it all - and a lot MORE. It has a lot of other
utilities that one might find useful.

It can even create a hidden partition on your system disk and
fill it with all that is needed to restore the system partition
at startup - as long as there is enough room to create a hidden
partition that will hold it all.

It does all that can be expected from a full-featured backup
program - and more - at a lower cost than Casper, which can only
make clones.

Acronis True Image costs the same as Casper if bought from the
company site: $50, and there is no need to spend another $10 to
get the bootable CD or ISO file to make one. However, the
latest version and the previous version can be purchased at
discount from Newegg.com

/Anna Mode OFF - WHEW!

Richie Hardwick

  #94  
Old January 24th 09, 08:04 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Bill in Co.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,106
Default How to use Acronis to backup o/s ?

The Max wrote:
After much spirited debate, I think a summary is called for.
Keep in mind that I own both Casper and Acronis True Image
and use both on a daily basis.

/Anna Mode ON - with apologies

There is much interest in making a backup of one's system disk.
The two most frequently used methods involve making a clone of
the disk, or making an image of the disk.

CLONING
Cloning makes an exact copy of your system disk on another
disk. IT REQUIRES FULL USE OF THE SECOND DISK, either internal
or external.

That disk is then bootable, the same as the system disk. If the
original disk physically fails, it can be replaced with the
cloned disk. If the cloned disk is an internal disk and the
BIOS permits, then one merely needs to set it first in the boot
order and run with it. Windows will load normally and all the
settings/programs will be the same as on the original disk as if
nothing had happened.

If the cloned disk is used as a backup in case the system disk
gets fried (Windows gets badly messed up and won't boot, or
boots with everything screwed up), the clone can be used to
"reverse clone" to the system disk, restoring it to operation.
A bootable CD with the cloning software will be needed to
accomplish that restoration.

If one only wants to restore selected portions of the system
disk - as when data gets accidentally deleted - that data can be
copied from the clone and pasted to the system disk.

IMAGING
Imaging your system disk makes a file - usually a compressed
and proprietary file, only usable by the imaging program. It
should be made/stored on a second disk - either internal or
external.

IMAGING DOES NOT REQUIRE FULL USE OF THE SECOND DISK.

You can make as many images (or incremental images to the
original) as there is space available on that second disk. A
full image is normally smaller than the data that is contained
on the source disk. An incremental (update of a full image) is
much smaller than the full image.

If the system disk physically fails, a new disk must be
installed. One then uses the imaging program to restore
everything to the new disk.

If the system disk gets "fried" - as in Windows won't load,
etc. - restoration is performed to that disk.

A bootable CD with the imaging program on it will be required
to make the restoration

CASPER 5.0
Casper makes the clone from within Windows, and it can make
incremental clones - updates to that clone - saving a lot of
time for those who make frequent clones. How long the original
clone takes - or how long the incremental clone takes - depends
on the amount of data on the source disk.

NOTE 1: CASPER CAN ONLY MAKE CLONES. It cannot make
images.

NOTE 2: CASPER REQUIRES FULL USE OF THE SECOND DISK.

NOTE 3: If the clone has been made to an external disk, the
restoration process will require having a bootable CD with
Casper on it. That will cost and additional $10 as it is not
provided when one spends the $50 to purchase the Casper program.

ACRONIS TRUE IMAGE 2009
Acronis True Image 2009 (and previous versions) can also make a
clone but after setting up the cloning process, a reboot is
required and the cloning is completed outside of Windows. It
cannot make "incremental clones", so one will need to make an
entirely NEW clone to keep the clone updated.

The cloning is a bit faster than Casper's full clone, but
updates - since they are also a full clone - take a lot more time
than Casper's incremental cloning.

HOWEVER... Acronis True Image CAN ALSO MAKE IMAGES - complete
and incremental, manually or on a schedule - and it makes them
from within Windows. Remember that one can make as many images
over time as one wants to make, limited only by the space on the
receiving disk.

IMAGING DOES NOT REQUIRE FULL USE OF A SECOND DISK.

Acronis True Image can also make images of selected
data/files/directories - at your choosing - either manually or
on a schedule.

AND... one doesn't have to copy and paste to restore selected
files/directories: one can browse those images with ATI and
selectively restore from them as needed.

Acronis does it all - and a lot MORE. It has a lot of other
utilities that one might find useful.

It can even create a hidden partition on your system disk and
fill it with all that is needed to restore the system partition
at startup - as long as there is enough room to create a hidden
partition that will hold it all.

It does all that can be expected from a full-featured backup
program - and more - at a lower cost than Casper, which can only
make clones.

Acronis True Image costs the same as Casper if bought from the
company site: $50, and there is no need to spend another $10 to
get the bootable CD or ISO file to make one. However, the
latest version and the previous version can be purchased at
discount from Newegg.com

/Anna Mode OFF - WHEW!

Richie Hardwick


I like this "summary". Kudos - seems right on to me.

For the sake of completeness, I would like to add there is a third backup
option, and that is using backup programs that allow any partition to be
copied to a destination drive (into some free unallocated space), and
without affecting the other partitions on the destination disk. These are
NOT images - they are exact partition copies, done at the partition level.
I would call them "cloned partitions", for lack of a better term. Programs
that can do this are Partition Magic and Boot It NG.


  #95  
Old January 24th 09, 04:02 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Robin Bignall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 595
Default How to use Acronis to backup o/s ?

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:22:09 +0000, Robin Bignall
wrote:

As a result of this thread I bought Acronis TrueImage Home 2009 on
Saturday, and wonder if anyone has the same problem with scheduling
that I've found. (Most recent version 9646.) Effectively, trying to
schedule any sort of backup daily, weekly or monthly simply doesn't
work (XP Pro SP3). On clicking on any of those buttons I see "Error:
invalid repetition period" even before any of the parameters are
touched. On trying to complete the backup one gets "Error #50: failed
to create scheduled task: request not supported: 0xFFF0". It's also
failing to pick up my Windows logon password correctly, too. I am, of
course, an administrator.

Acronis admits there's a problem with scheduling. If you look at their
knowledge base http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/support/kb/ and
enter "scheduling" in the search box you get to fourth article on page
http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing.../articles/261/ "Acronis
True Image Scheduled Tasks Do Not Run"

I have downloaded and run the fix supplied there, to no avail, have
downloaded and run the tools they recommend and shipped the whole
thing to Acronis.

But my problem is not that a scheduled task won't run: it's that I
can't even create one using their backup wizard. Since scheduling
backups is such an integral part of any backup system, I'm beginning
to wonder how the product ever got released.


Just to mention that I gave up wondering, uninstalled Acronis (with
some difficulty because of that hidden partition), asked for a refund
and bought Shadowprotect Desktop instead.
--
Robin
(BrE)
Herts, England
  #96  
Old January 24th 09, 08:19 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Twayne[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,276
Default How to use Acronis to backup o/s ?

On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 17:35:14 -0500, "Twayne"
wrote:

"Daave"
wrote in
message
...
(SNIP)

I still think that the main appeal of cloning
is that
one can simply physically place a perfectly
cloned drive
into the PC that contained the original
drive,
which for
whatever reason can't or won't work anymore.
Or
if the
cloned drive is *already* connected and "in
the
loop"
(as another internal PC hard drive or a
connected eSATA
drive, which also functions as an internal
drive), then
it's just a matter of using the boot menu to
select it. Cloning a clone back to the
original
drive (or a
replacement drive) -- for instance, the clone
resides on
an external USB hard drive -- doesn't seem to
me to have
much of an advantage over restoring an image.
Is it
quicker, perhaps?


Daave:
As far as the restoration process goes, for
the
vast
majority of users the amount of time to
restore
one's
system either using the disk-cloning process
or
a
disk-imaging process is really of little
consequence. The


Actually, the differences are large. A cloned
disk is one you can pick up and install in
place
of the other disk; it's ready to go. Nothing
to
restore; it IS a fully functional mirror of the
drive used to clone it.
You don't save clones as a rule. You clone a
drive to have a ready-to-use drive to replace
the
drive that was cloned as in adding a newer
larger
drive to a system, or an emergency backup drive
in
place of a RAID system, etc..
.
Images on the other hand are backup
methodologies and their value is in their speed
of
backups using full/incremental etc. types of
backup. While a clone isn't intended to be
used
for "restore", an image is. You can further
clone
cloned drives if one wishes, but it's al all or
nothign situation where images allow you to
mess
with a single drive, directory, file, whatever
in
any manner you wish. You can retrieve a lost
file
from an image in a few minutes but it's quite a
task with a clone and can't really be very
cleanly
accomplished without hoops.


I clone my drive with Casper and it's all there.
I can
copy a file off my clone as fast as I can from
the
original drive.

Also, with Casper, it doesn't reclone every
time, it just
changes what was changed on the original drive.
Very,
very fast.


Then it isn't "cloning", it's imaging or something
else.

Twayne


  #97  
Old January 24th 09, 08:29 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Twayne[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,276
Default How to use Acronis to backup o/s ?

On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 17:20:55 -0500, "Twayne"
wrote:

"Anna" wrote in message
...

Please keep in mind that the drive letter
assignments on
the *external* (destination) HDD are of *no*
relevance
should the time come when the user would want
to restore
his/her system from the contents of the
destination
drive. Obviously should the user desire to
restore their
system to its previous state, they would
simply
clone
the contents of (in our example) the first
three
partitions on the destination HDD back to
their
internal
(source) HDD. (I mention this because it
seems
there is
some confusion over this point among some
users.)

We all know this is some kind of sticking
point
for Bill!
So, out of curiosity, if one clones the
contents
of the
clone back to the PC's hard drive, will the
drive letter
assignments be as they were (I'm talking about
how they
were on the PC's hard drive originally before
*any*
cloning took place)?


IFF it's a true "clone", then yes. I've seen
the
definition of the word being rather
*******ized,
apparently for convenience or hype by the
program
makers. Or possibly language translations.
The
word "clone" has suffered some serious dilution
in
the past decade; in some instances it's turning
out to be nothing but a copy which is not the
intent of cloning a physical drive.
Cloning is to make the cloned disk data be
exactly like the original, with NO differences
whatsoever other than possible some extra space
left over if it's a larger physical drive.
The data that was in sector 1 of the original
gets put to sector 1 of the clone, 2 to 2, 3 to
3,
and so on to the end of the operation and the
physical drive. Anything that was NOT on the
original can not, by definition, be on the
clone,
or it would not have made a clone. ALL
existying
data on the device being cloned TO is gone,
period, never to be seen again.
Should pre-existing data on the drive being
cloned TO still be there after the "clone",
then a
true "clone" was not accomplished; it was
instead
an image of the original drive, and entirely
different animal. AFAIK anyway; I don't see
why a
clone couldn't leave data in unneeded areas in
tack, if its location didn't ovelap with any
locations the cloned data needs, but ... I
havent'
seen such an animal. Mainly because the actual
physical locations of partitions on a drive
aren't
reliable, I suppose.
I don't know whether Acronis does a true
clone
or not. I know Ghost does, because the MFT,
MBR,
etc. are all part of the data transfered and of
course, must reside in the proper places on the
disk drive to be usable. Also AFAIK clones can
not be compressed while images of course can
be,
and there is no such thing as an incremental
clone
as there is for imaging or other types of
backups.


Casper does what it calls a "differential"
clone.

Whatever changed on the original drive is
changed on the
clone after the intitial clone. Subsequent
clone take
minutes and can even work in the background.

Exact, bootable clone, every time.


I suppose it's possible but it's not a "clone" if
it's changed or added to after it's been created.
If they only take minutes to do, those are
incremental or differential backups of some sort,
and not clones. The OUTPUT may appear to be a
clone, but it's not. It will not put fname.txt
back to exactly fname.txt was on the original
drive, to the same sector on the same tracks on
the same platter/s.
If you can pick out a file to restore on its
own, it's not a clone. Either your documentation
is very poor, the word is used incorrectly, or you
are mistaken.
It's not really worth arguing about though; the
word has been so *******ized these days it's hard
to know what anyone means when they use it, and it
can matter in the right circumstance.

Rather than let this become a never-ending
syntactical discourse, I'll leave it at that. The
use you indicate doesn't matter whether it's a
clone of image anyway.g

Cheers,




Cloning operations go right down to the
head/platter/track/sector level where imaging
leaves that to the operating system which is
why
images require VSS in order to image a system
drive while the system is running.

HTH

Twayne




  #98  
Old January 24th 09, 08:38 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Bill in Co.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,106
Default How to use Acronis to backup o/s ?

WaIIy wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 00:28:09 -0600, The Max
wrote:

After much spirited debate, I think a summary is called for.
Keep in mind that I own both Casper and Acronis True Image
and use both on a daily basis.

/Anna Mode ON - with apologies

There is much interest in making a backup of one's system disk.
The two most frequently used methods involve making a clone of
the disk, or making an image of the disk.

CLONING
Cloning makes an exact copy of your system disk on another
disk. IT REQUIRES FULL USE OF THE SECOND DISK, either
internal or external.

That disk is then bootable, the same as the system disk. If the
original disk physically fails, it can be replaced with the
cloned disk. If the cloned disk is an internal disk and the
BIOS permits, then one merely needs to set it first in the boot
order and run with it. Windows will load normally and all the
settings/programs will be the same as on the original disk as if
nothing had happened.

If the cloned disk is used as a backup in case the system disk
gets fried (Windows gets badly messed up and won't boot, or
boots with everything screwed up), the clone can be used to
"reverse clone" to the system disk, restoring it to operation.
A bootable CD with the cloning software will be needed to
accomplish that restoration.

If one only wants to restore selected portions of the system
disk - as when data gets accidentally deleted - that data can be
copied from the clone and pasted to the system disk.

IMAGING
Imaging your system disk makes a file - usually a compressed
and proprietary file, only usable by the imaging program. It
should be made/stored on a second disk - either internal or
external.

IMAGING DOES NOT REQUIRE FULL USE OF THE SECOND DISK.

You can make as many images (or incremental images to the
original) as there is space available on that second disk. A
full image is normally smaller than the data that is contained
on the source disk. An incremental (update of a full image) is
much smaller than the full image.

If the system disk physically fails, a new disk must be
installed. One then uses the imaging program to restore
everything to the new disk.

If the system disk gets "fried" - as in Windows won't load,
etc. - restoration is performed to that disk.

A bootable CD with the imaging program on it will be required
to make the restoration

CASPER 5.0
Casper makes the clone from within Windows, and it can make
incremental clones - updates to that clone - saving a lot of
time for those who make frequent clones. How long the original
clone takes - or how long the incremental clone takes - depends
on the amount of data on the source disk.


Casper makes DIFERENTIAL clones....


Incremental

A "normal" incremental backup will only back up files that have
been changed since the last backup of any type. This provides the
quickest means of backup, since it only makes copies of files
that have not yet been backed up. For instance, following a full
backup on Friday, Monday's tape will contain only those files
changed since Friday. Tuesday's tape contains only those files
changed since Monday, and so on. The downside to this is that in
order to perform a full restore, one needs to restore the last
full backup first, followed by each of the subsequent incremental
backups to the present day in the correct order. Should any one
of these backup copies be damaged (particularly the full backup),
the restore will be incomplete.

An example of a typical incremental backup command in MS-DOS
would be: xcopy c:\source\*.* d:\destination\*.* /s /m

Differential

A cumulative backup of all changes made since the last full or
normal backup, i.e., the differences since the last full backup.
The advantage to this is the quicker recovery time, requiring
only a full backup and the latest differential backup to restore
the system. The disadvantage is that for each day elapsed since
the last full backup, more data needs to be backed up, especially
if a significant proportion of the data has been changed.



NOTE 1: CASPER CAN ONLY MAKE CLONES. It cannot make
images.


Casper can also make differential copies and doesn't need the
whole destination disk to do it.

NOTE 2: CASPER REQUIRES FULL USE OF THE SECOND DISK.

NOTE 3: If the clone has been made to an external disk, the
restoration process will require having a bootable CD with
Casper on it. That will cost and additional $10 as it is not
provided when one spends the $50 to purchase the Casper program.


I back up via USB to a drive in an enclosure and it's fully bootable
if I pop it in my computer. Is that an "external disk"?
I can't boot my usb drive.


It's an external HD until you take it out of the enclosure and put it
inside, at which point it becomes an internal HD.

ACRONIS TRUE IMAGE 2009
Acronis True Image 2009 (and previous versions) can also make a
clone but after setting up the cloning process, a reboot is
required and the cloning is completed outside of Windows. It
cannot make "incremental clones", so one will need to make an
entirely NEW clone to keep the clone updated.


Major disadvantage.


For clone operations, yes. (But ATI does something similar with images)

The cloning is a bit faster than Casper's full clone, but
updates - since they are also a full clone - take a lot more time
than Casper's incremental cloning.

HOWEVER... Acronis True Image CAN ALSO MAKE IMAGES - complete
and incremental, manually or on a schedule - and it makes them
from within Windows. Remember that one can make as many images
over time as one wants to make, limited only by the space on the
receiving disk.

IMAGING DOES NOT REQUIRE FULL USE OF A SECOND DISK.

Acronis True Image can also make images of selected
data/files/directories - at your choosing - either manually or
on a schedule.

AND... one doesn't have to copy and paste to restore selected
files/directories: one can browse those images with ATI and
selectively restore from them as needed.


That's no advantage, it's a disadvantage.


Not necessarily! In fact for me it's an advantage.

Acronis does it all - and a lot MORE. It has a lot of other
utilities that one might find useful.


Nothins does it "all" , not even your mom.

It can even create a hidden partition on your system disk and
fill it with all that is needed to restore the system partition
at startup - as long as there is enough room to create a hidden
partition that will hold it all.

It does all that can be expected from a full-featured backup
program - and more - at a lower cost than Casper, which can only
make clones.


and copies and it's easier and it works in the background and
it's way faster than Acronis and you have a full and intact copy
of your system easily available at all times.

Acronis True Image costs the same as Casper if bought from the
company site: $50, and there is no need to spend another $10 to
get the bootable CD or ISO file to make one. However, the
latest version and the previous version can be purchased at
discount from Newegg.com

/Anna Mode OFF - WHEW!

Richie Hardwick



  #99  
Old January 25th 09, 07:28 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Twayne[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,276
Default How to use Acronis to backup o/s ?

Wally,


....

Right on, with the following caveats:
As a general rule, the program doing the
Restores takes care of all the monkey-work of
adding the incrementals to the full backup they're
related to. It's been a very long time and I'm
too lazy right now to test it out, but I think
ntbackup does it too. Most good imaging programs
will load the incrementals and full and let you
look at them as one complete file. OOPS: Let me
correct that. Ghost does and I imagine Acrons et
al so, but don't actually know it for a fact.

They typical xcopy backup is good too, as long as
one keeps in mind it cannot backup any files that
are "in use".

Not trying to be a PIA; just filling in a couple
spaces, so to speakg.

Overall, great observations.



Incremental

A "normal" incremental backup will only back up
files
that have been changed since the last backup of
any
type. This provides the quickest means of
backup, since
it only makes copies of files that have not
yet been
backed up. For instance, following a full
backup on
Friday, Monday's tape will contain only those
files
changed since Friday. Tuesday's tape contains
only
those files changed since Monday, and so on.
The
downside to this is that in order to perform a
full
restore, one needs to restore the last full
backup
first, followed by each of the subsequent
incremental
backups to the present day in the correct order.
Should
any one of these backup copies be damaged
(particularly
the full backup), the restore will be
incomplete.

An example of a typical incremental backup
command in
MS-DOS would be: xcopy c:\source\*.*
d:\destination\*.*
/s /m

....


  #100  
Old January 26th 09, 02:02 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Anna
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,039
Default Using Casper 5 disk-cloning program to clone multi-partitioned HDD

Wally, Bill, Daave, Richie, et al...

This is the example that was discussed in a related thread which caused such
confusion (primarily because of me I'm afraid!) and misunderstanding. I've
changed the subject-name of this post for obvious reasons.

The user's source 250 GB HDD has been multi-partitioned with three
partitions...
C: 50 GB
D: 125 GB
E: 75 GB
(Disk-size figures have been rounded up for simplicity)

The user's destination 500 GB HDD contains a partition of 250 GB with the
remaining disk space unallocated. The established partition is used for data
storage or for whatever other purpose(s) wanted by the user. The user
desires to retain that partition.

Because there is sufficient disk-space on the destination HDD in the form of
the 250 GB of unallocated disk space, the user will be able to clone the
contents of his or her source HDD on a partition-by-partition basis. The
established partition on that destination drive will be unaffected by the
cloning process.

Thus, following the cloning operation the destination HDD will contain four
partitions - the original 250 GB partition (untouched); another partition of
50 GB (the source drive's C: partition); another partition of 125 GB (the
source drive's D: partition); and the final fourth partition of 75 GB ((the
source drive's E: partition).

The bottom line here is that as long as there is sufficient *unallocated*
disk space on the destination HDD to contain the contents of a
multi-partitioned source HDD there's no problem undertaking this
disk-cloning operation with Casper 5. The fact that a previous partition has
been created on the destination HDD (as in our example) is immaterial. That
partition will be unaffected by the cloning process.

Following the cloning operation, it would probably be a good idea for the
user to rename the cloned partitions on the destination drive in such a way
as to identify them to mirror the drive letter assignments on the source
HDD. So in our example, the user might want to label his/her cloned C:
partition "Source C:", the cloned D: partition "Source D:", and the cloned
E: partition "Source E:" (or some such).

When the time comes that restoration is necessary because the source HDD has
failed or the OS has become unbootable or otherwise dysfunctional, or for
whatever reason, i.e., the user will clone the contents of the three
partitions on the destination HDD back to an internal HDD employing the same
basic process as described above.

For those of you who are already using Casper 5 or contemplate doing so,
here's the detailed step-by-step process...
1. Access Casper 5 program and click on "Copy Drive".
2. Click on the "Perform a different copy" option.
3. Click on "Copy a specific drive".
4. Highlight the C: partition and click Next.
5. Click on the "Copy to a new drive" option.
6. Highlight the destination drive and click Next.
7. Select the option "Make the copy the same size as it is right now" and
click Next.
8. Click on "Begin copy".

Repeat the above for every partition that is to be cloned from the source
HDD.

As you can see the process is quite simple cloning an individual partition
from the source HDD to the destination drive. Just an easy half-dozen or so
mouse clicks.

Again, as I believe Richie has pointed out, as long as there is sufficient
unallocated disk space on the destination drive, individual partitions can
be cloned from the source drive to the destination drive.

Needless to say, should the user desire to use the *entire* destination HDD
as the recipient of the cloned (multi-partitioned) source HDD that makes the
process even easier - simply a disk-to-disk clone, naturally assuming the
disk capacity of the destination drive is sufficient to hold the contents of
the source drive.
Anna


  #101  
Old January 26th 09, 03:45 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Mike Torello
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 391
Default Using Casper 5 disk-cloning program to clone multi-partitioned HDD

"Anna" wrote:

Wally, Bill, Daave, Richie, et al...

This is the example that was discussed in a related thread which caused such
confusion (primarily because of me I'm afraid!) and misunderstanding. I've
changed the subject-name of this post for obvious reasons.

The user's source 250 GB HDD has been multi-partitioned with three
partitions...
C: 50 GB
D: 125 GB
E: 75 GB
(Disk-size figures have been rounded up for simplicity)

The user's destination 500 GB HDD contains a partition of 250 GB with the
remaining disk space unallocated. The established partition is used for data
storage or for whatever other purpose(s) wanted by the user. The user
desires to retain that partition.

Because there is sufficient disk-space on the destination HDD in the form of
the 250 GB of unallocated disk space, the user will be able to clone the
contents of his or her source HDD on a partition-by-partition basis. The
established partition on that destination drive will be unaffected by the
cloning process.

Thus, following the cloning operation the destination HDD will contain four
partitions - the original 250 GB partition (untouched); another partition of
50 GB (the source drive's C: partition); another partition of 125 GB (the
source drive's D: partition); and the final fourth partition of 75 GB ((the
source drive's E: partition).

The bottom line here is that as long as there is sufficient *unallocated*
disk space on the destination HDD to contain the contents of a
multi-partitioned source HDD there's no problem undertaking this
disk-cloning operation with Casper 5. The fact that a previous partition has
been created on the destination HDD (as in our example) is immaterial. That
partition will be unaffected by the cloning process.

Following the cloning operation, it would probably be a good idea for the
user to rename the cloned partitions on the destination drive in such a way
as to identify them to mirror the drive letter assignments on the source
HDD. So in our example, the user might want to label his/her cloned C:
partition "Source C:", the cloned D: partition "Source D:", and the cloned
E: partition "Source E:" (or some such).

When the time comes that restoration is necessary because the source HDD has
failed or the OS has become unbootable or otherwise dysfunctional, or for
whatever reason, i.e., the user will clone the contents of the three
partitions on the destination HDD back to an internal HDD employing the same
basic process as described above.

For those of you who are already using Casper 5 or contemplate doing so,
here's the detailed step-by-step process...
1. Access Casper 5 program and click on "Copy Drive".
2. Click on the "Perform a different copy" option.
3. Click on "Copy a specific drive".
4. Highlight the C: partition and click Next.
5. Click on the "Copy to a new drive" option.
6. Highlight the destination drive and click Next.
7. Select the option "Make the copy the same size as it is right now" and
click Next.
8. Click on "Begin copy".

Repeat the above for every partition that is to be cloned from the source
HDD.

As you can see the process is quite simple cloning an individual partition
from the source HDD to the destination drive. Just an easy half-dozen or so
mouse clicks.

Again, as I believe Richie has pointed out, as long as there is sufficient
unallocated disk space on the destination drive, individual partitions can
be cloned from the source drive to the destination drive.

Needless to say, should the user desire to use the *entire* destination HDD
as the recipient of the cloned (multi-partitioned) source HDD that makes the
process even easier - simply a disk-to-disk clone, naturally assuming the
disk capacity of the destination drive is sufficient to hold the contents of
the source drive.
Anna


Sounds like a REAL PITA to me. If one doesn't want to clone, using an
imaging program like Acronis makes more sense - a LOT more sense.
  #102  
Old January 26th 09, 04:44 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Bill in Co.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,106
Default Using Casper 5 disk-cloning program to clone multi-partitioned HDD

Anna wrote:
Wally, Bill, Daave, Richie, et al...

This is the example that was discussed in a related thread which caused
such
confusion (primarily because of me I'm afraid!) and misunderstanding.


There's nothing to be afraid of. We all make mistakes, so no biggie!
Remember, "we have nothing to fear, but fear itself...". (courtesy FDR)

I've changed the subject-name of this post for obvious reasons.

The user's source 250 GB HDD has been multi-partitioned with three
partitions...
C: 50 GB
D: 125 GB
E: 75 GB
(Disk-size figures have been rounded up for simplicity)

The user's destination 500 GB HDD contains a partition of 250 GB with the
remaining disk space unallocated. The established partition is used for
data
storage or for whatever other purpose(s) wanted by the user. The user
desires to retain that partition.

Because there is sufficient disk-space on the destination HDD in the form
of
the 250 GB of unallocated disk space, the user will be able to clone the
contents of his or her source HDD on a partition-by-partition basis. The
established partition on that destination drive will be unaffected by the
cloning process.

Thus, following the cloning operation the destination HDD will contain
four
partitions - the original 250 GB partition (untouched); another partition
of
50 GB (the source drive's C: partition); another partition of 125 GB (the
source drive's D: partition); and the final fourth partition of 75 GB
((the
source drive's E: partition).

The bottom line here is that as long as there is sufficient *unallocated*
disk space on the destination HDD to contain the contents of a
multi-partitioned source HDD there's no problem undertaking this
disk-cloning operation with Casper 5. The fact that a previous partition
has
been created on the destination HDD (as in our example) is immaterial.
That
partition will be unaffected by the cloning process.

Following the cloning operation, it would probably be a good idea for the
user to rename the cloned partitions on the destination drive in such a
way
as to identify them to mirror the drive letter assignments on the source
HDD. So in our example, the user might want to label his/her cloned C:
partition "Source C:", the cloned D: partition "Source D:", and the cloned
E: partition "Source E:" (or some such).

When the time comes that restoration is necessary because the source HDD
has
failed or the OS has become unbootable or otherwise dysfunctional, or for
whatever reason, i.e., the user will clone the contents of the three
partitions on the destination HDD back to an internal HDD employing the
same
basic process as described above.

For those of you who are already using Casper 5 or contemplate doing so,
here's the detailed step-by-step process...
1. Access Casper 5 program and click on "Copy Drive".
2. Click on the "Perform a different copy" option.
3. Click on "Copy a specific drive".
4. Highlight the C: partition and click Next.
5. Click on the "Copy to a new drive" option.
6. Highlight the destination drive and click Next.
7. Select the option "Make the copy the same size as it is right now" and
click Next.
8. Click on "Begin copy".

Repeat the above for every partition that is to be cloned from the source
HDD.

As you can see the process is quite simple cloning an individual partition
from the source HDD to the destination drive. Just an easy half-dozen or
so
mouse clicks.

Again, as I believe Richie has pointed out, as long as there is sufficient
unallocated disk space on the destination drive, individual partitions can
be cloned from the source drive to the destination drive.

Needless to say, should the user desire to use the *entire* destination
HDD
as the recipient of the cloned (multi-partitioned) source HDD that makes
the
process even easier - simply a disk-to-disk clone, naturally assuming the
disk capacity of the destination drive is sufficient to hold the contents
of
the source drive.
Anna


OK, this clarifies Casper more for me. Casper then can indeed be used as a
partition copying program, like Partition Magic and Boot It NG, if one
wants. One could say it is "cloning the partitions" to the destination
drive, one by one, just as you would do in Partition Magic, or Boot It NG.

Or as you said above, you could just clone the entire source drive (IF you
are willing to use the entire destination drive for that), which is probably
the more typical use for users of this program, to make "an identical
drive", in effect.


  #103  
Old January 26th 09, 09:03 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Mike Torello
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 391
Default Using Casper 5 disk-cloning program to clone multi-partitioned HDD

WaIIy wrote:

On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:45:01 -0600, Mike Torello
wrote:

Sounds like a REAL PITA to me. If one doesn't want to clone, using an
imaging program like Acronis makes more sense - a LOT more sense.


"Bring in the Clones"

Casper couldn't be easier.

Once you do the first clone, just click on a shorcut and it "reclones"
in a few minutes and even in the background.

Even an MVP could do it with a little help.


The way she described cloning a disk with several partitions to
another disk with partitions... no way. It took several cloning
operations.
  #104  
Old January 26th 09, 04:19 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Anna
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,039
Default Using Casper 5 disk-cloning program to clone multi-partitioned HDD


On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:45:01 -0600, Mike Torello
wrote:

Sounds like a REAL PITA to me. If one doesn't want to clone, using an
imaging program like Acronis makes more sense - a LOT more sense.


Mike adds...
The way she described cloning a disk with several partitions to
another disk with partitions... no way. It took several cloning
operations.



WaIIy wrote:
"Bring in the Clones"

Casper couldn't be easier.

Once you do the first clone, just click on a shorcut and it "reclones"
in a few minutes and even in the background.

Even an MVP could do it with a little help.



Mike:
As Wally has indicated, it's actually a very simple operation for Casper 5
to clone the contents of one HDD to another HDD. By & large it's easier than
any other disk-cloning (or disk-imaging) program I've ever used, including
the various versions of Acronis True Image (excepting their latest 2009
version which I haven't yet tried).

In the example I gave it was a bit complicated (in the description but not
the *actual* process!), because we were dealing with a situation where the
user had multi-partitioned their source HDD and their destination HDD (the
intended recipient of the cloned contents of the source HDD) was also
multi-partitioned with one or more of the established partitions on the
destination drive being used for other purposes (data storage, perhaps
another clone, etc.) by the user.

It probably took longer to read my detailed description of the process to
clone the contents of the source HDD, i.e., the three partitions, to the
destination drive than undertaking the process itself.

Understand that if this was merely a situation (which is usually the
*typical* situation) where the user was simply using his or her destination
HDD, e.g., a USB external HDD, *solely* for the purpose as the recipient of
the cloned contents of the source HDD, it could have been done in one fell
swoop. There would be no need to clone the contents of the source HDD on a
partition-by-partition basis. A very simple & quick disk-to-disk cloning
operation using Casper 5. In the overwhelming amount of cases (based on my
experience) this is the usual backup strategy employed by the typical PC
user.

And what would the user have at the "end of the day"? A precise copy of his
or her day-to-day working HDD with all data on the clone *immediately*
accessible and the drive potentially bootable. No special restoration
process being necessary, only another simple cloning of the destination
drive's contents back to the internal HDD in the event the system needed to
be restored.
Anna


  #105  
Old January 26th 09, 05:38 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Mike Torello
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 391
Default Using Casper 5 disk-cloning program to clone multi-partitioned HDD

"Anna" wrote:


On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:45:01 -0600, Mike Torello
wrote:

Sounds like a REAL PITA to me. If one doesn't want to clone, using an
imaging program like Acronis makes more sense - a LOT more sense.


Mike adds...
The way she described cloning a disk with several partitions to
another disk with partitions... no way. It took several cloning
operations.



WaIIy wrote:
"Bring in the Clones"

Casper couldn't be easier.

Once you do the first clone, just click on a shorcut and it "reclones"
in a few minutes and even in the background.

Even an MVP could do it with a little help.



Mike:
As Wally has indicated, it's actually a very simple operation for Casper 5
to clone the contents of one HDD to another HDD. By & large it's easier than
any other disk-cloning (or disk-imaging) program I've ever used, including
the various versions of Acronis True Image (excepting their latest 2009
version which I haven't yet tried).

In the example I gave it was a bit complicated (in the description but not
the *actual* process!), because we were dealing with a situation where the
user had multi-partitioned their source HDD and their destination HDD (the
intended recipient of the cloned contents of the source HDD) was also
multi-partitioned with one or more of the established partitions on the
destination drive being used for other purposes (data storage, perhaps
another clone, etc.) by the user.

It probably took longer to read my detailed description of the process to
clone the contents of the source HDD, i.e., the three partitions, to the
destination drive than undertaking the process itself.

Understand that if this was merely a situation (which is usually the
*typical* situation) where the user was simply using his or her destination
HDD, e.g., a USB external HDD, *solely* for the purpose as the recipient of
the cloned contents of the source HDD, it could have been done in one fell
swoop. There would be no need to clone the contents of the source HDD on a
partition-by-partition basis. A very simple & quick disk-to-disk cloning
operation using Casper 5. In the overwhelming amount of cases (based on my
experience) this is the usual backup strategy employed by the typical PC
user.

And what would the user have at the "end of the day"? A precise copy of his
or her day-to-day working HDD with all data on the clone *immediately*
accessible and the drive potentially bootable. No special restoration
process being necessary, only another simple cloning of the destination
drive's contents back to the internal HDD in the event the system needed to
be restored.
Anna


Thanks for the explanation, but it's still not apparent to me how
cloning is better than imaging when one has no need for another
bootable disk.

My imaging program can clone should I need one. From what I gather
here, Casper can't image.

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off






All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 PCbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.