XP Search Problem

On 08 Jan 2010, "OREALLY" wrote in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize:

Tried the search in Safe Mode........same problem when stopping
search on backup Seagate Drive...freezes up computer. Tried a
CHKDISC in Safe Mode also. It stalls out at the end of Phase
4....just sits there for hours! There is a folder 'Acronis Image'
with 90 GB of data in that backup drive. I'm wondering if that has
something to do with it?

CHKDSK can take many hours, maybe even days to complete on a large disk
drive if you have used the /F or /R switches - you have to be patient.
If you really think it's hung up, that could be evidence that the disk
is corrupt, either the file system or the the physical disk. At this
stage, I would not trust the integrity of the disk and would look to
move all valuable data from it to something reliable.

I would then low-level format the disk and test it for corruption
again. It may be that the disk is physically OK, but the master file
table is messed up. In my experience, once that happens there is little
you can do but reformat.

On 08 Jan 2010, "OREALLY" wrote in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize:

Tried the search in Safe Mode........same problem when stopping
search on backup Seagate Drive...freezes up computer. Tried a
CHKDISC in Safe Mode also. It stalls out at the end of Phase
4....just sits there for hours! There is a folder 'Acronis Image'
with 90 GB of data in that backup drive. I'm wondering if that has
something to do with it?

CHKDSK can take many hours, maybe even days to complete on a large disk
drive if you have used the /F or /R switches - you have to be patient.
If you really think it's hung up, that could be evidence that the disk
is corrupt, either the file system or the the physical disk. At this
stage, I would not trust the integrity of the disk and would look to
move all valuable data from it to something reliable.

I would then low-level format the disk and test it for corruption
again. It may be that the disk is physically OK, but the master file
table is messed up. In my experience, once that happens there is little
you can do but reformat.

Finally finished the scan!...Took 4hours.

But How do I tell if scancheck made any repairs?



"Nil" wrote in message
...
On 08 Jan 2010, "OREALLY" wrote in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize:

Tried the search in Safe Mode........same problem when stopping
search on backup Seagate Drive...freezes up computer. Tried a
CHKDISC in Safe Mode also. It stalls out at the end of Phase
4....just sits there for hours! There is a folder 'Acronis Image'
with 90 GB of data in that backup drive. I'm wondering if that has
something to do with it?

CHKDSK can take many hours, maybe even days to complete on a large disk
drive if you have used the /F or /R switches - you have to be patient.
If you really think it's hung up, that could be evidence that the disk
is corrupt, either the file system or the the physical disk. At this
stage, I would not trust the integrity of the disk and would look to
move all valuable data from it to something reliable.

I would then low-level format the disk and test it for corruption
again. It may be that the disk is physically OK, but the master file
table is messed up. In my experience, once that happens there is little
you can do but reformat.

Finally finished the scan!...Took 4hours.

But How do I tell if scancheck made any repairs?



"Nil" wrote in message
...
On 08 Jan 2010, "OREALLY" wrote in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize:

Tried the search in Safe Mode........same problem when stopping
search on backup Seagate Drive...freezes up computer. Tried a
CHKDISC in Safe Mode also. It stalls out at the end of Phase
4....just sits there for hours! There is a folder 'Acronis Image'
with 90 GB of data in that backup drive. I'm wondering if that has
something to do with it?

CHKDSK can take many hours, maybe even days to complete on a large disk
drive if you have used the /F or /R switches - you have to be patient.
If you really think it's hung up, that could be evidence that the disk
is corrupt, either the file system or the the physical disk. At this
stage, I would not trust the integrity of the disk and would look to
move all valuable data from it to something reliable.

I would then low-level format the disk and test it for corruption
again. It may be that the disk is physically OK, but the master file
table is messed up. In my experience, once that happens there is little
you can do but reformat.

I don't think there is any data corruption on the backup disc. Windows
Search Engine just keeps on creating duplicate and triplicate results
etc....on and on and then freezes everything up if you try to stop it.....at
least on that backup disk. CHKDISK completed the scan.......I suppose if it
found any errors it fixed them. I have no idea how to view the results of
the scan. Not only is the search function rather slow compared to other
software like Agent Ransack.........it doesn't seem to work at all in some
cases.
BTW.....when I defragmented the backup disk (which the analysis suggested)
it showed that some files could not be defragmented. I figure those must be
the Acronis Image files. Perhaps they are confusing the XP search?

Oreally




"Tim Meddick" wrote in message
...
That does sound like severe data corruption that could indicate a damaged
HD.

You say that this happens on your [D:] drive?

Is the [D:] drive a second [physical] hard-drive, or simply a different
partition on a single HD?*


*(If you have difficulty in knowing which - type the following into the
"Run" box on the Start Menu :

c:\windows\system32\diskmgmt.msc

..and locate the shaded area that represents your [D:] drive.

You can then see from this whether it is on the same physical disk as your
system [C:] drive or not).

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)




"OREALLY" wrote in message
...
Tried the search in Safe Mode........same problem when stopping search on
backup Seagate Drive...freezes up computer. Tried a CHKDISC in Safe Mode
also. It stalls out at the end of Phase 4....just sits there for hours!
There is a folder 'Acronis Image' with 90 GB of data in that backup
drive. I'm wondering if that has something to do with it?

Oreally

"Tim Meddick" wrote in message
...
"OREALLY" wrote in message
...
clipped "why should a third party search program like Ransack have
no problem "


I don't know for sure - just a thought...

Some search utils use a database. i.e. they take their pretty time over
searching all files on all drives, and then caching the results.

Then, when you "perform" the search it's actually the cached results
that are being searched - not the drives themselves.

This may not be it in your case though, but it is a possibility...

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)

I don't think there is any data corruption on the backup disc. Windows
Search Engine just keeps on creating duplicate and triplicate results
etc....on and on and then freezes everything up if you try to stop it.....at
least on that backup disk. CHKDISK completed the scan.......I suppose if it
found any errors it fixed them. I have no idea how to view the results of
the scan. Not only is the search function rather slow compared to other
software like Agent Ransack.........it doesn't seem to work at all in some
cases.
BTW.....when I defragmented the backup disk (which the analysis suggested)
it showed that some files could not be defragmented. I figure those must be
the Acronis Image files. Perhaps they are confusing the XP search?

Oreally




"Tim Meddick" wrote in message
...
That does sound like severe data corruption that could indicate a damaged
HD.

You say that this happens on your [D:] drive?

Is the [D:] drive a second [physical] hard-drive, or simply a different
partition on a single HD?*


*(If you have difficulty in knowing which - type the following into the
"Run" box on the Start Menu :

c:\windows\system32\diskmgmt.msc

..and locate the shaded area that represents your [D:] drive.

You can then see from this whether it is on the same physical disk as your
system [C:] drive or not).

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)




"OREALLY" wrote in message
...
Tried the search in Safe Mode........same problem when stopping search on
backup Seagate Drive...freezes up computer. Tried a CHKDISC in Safe Mode
also. It stalls out at the end of Phase 4....just sits there for hours!
There is a folder 'Acronis Image' with 90 GB of data in that backup
drive. I'm wondering if that has something to do with it?

Oreally

"Tim Meddick" wrote in message
...
"OREALLY" wrote in message
...
clipped "why should a third party search program like Ransack have
no problem "


I don't know for sure - just a thought...

Some search utils use a database. i.e. they take their pretty time over
searching all files on all drives, and then caching the results.

Then, when you "perform" the search it's actually the cached results
that are being searched - not the drives themselves.

This may not be it in your case though, but it is a possibility...

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)

"OREALLY" wrote in
:

I don't think there is any data corruption on the backup
disc. Windows Search Engine just keeps on creating
duplicate and triplicate results etc....on and on and then
freezes everything up if you try to stop it.....at least on
that backup disk.

Interesting behavior. Your computer must be in tip-top shape.

CHKDISK completed the scan.......I
suppose if it found any errors it fixed them. I have no
idea how to view the results of the scan.

Do you know how to look at a screen in the front of you and read
what it says?
And if CHKDISK does not say "no problems found" or "found
problems and fixed them" like scandisk, why even bother using
it? Your system appears to have more serious problems than will
be fixed by a scan/check utility.

Not only is the
search function rather slow compared to other software like
Agent Ransack.........it doesn't seem to work at all in
some cases.

You have a computer with probably only one C: partition filled
with months/years of garbage and you don't know how to regularly
maintain/clean up your machine. Do some research and follow the
advice and your system MAY start behaving. [I say MAY because it
IS an MS product ;-) ]

BTW.....when I defragmented the backup disk (which the
analysis suggested)

Anyone who would defragment a backup disc, or even more, NEED to
do so (you don't backup a defragmented mess of sectors, you
defrag and THEN backup/image), needs to study the subject a
little more.

it showed that some files could not be
defragmented. I figure those must be the Acronis Image
files.

No, those can be defragmented, although I can not imagine why
one would ever need to do so if using Acronis (AND their system
to start with) correctly.

Files which won't defragment (unless you do some tweaking which
is usually not worth it) are read-only and/or system and/or
hidden files. They comprise a relatively small portion of an
average system and do not cause any problems defragging a well-
maintained correctly-running computer.

Perhaps they are confusing the XP search?

No offense, /you/ are confused.

I suggest you go to a good tech site (Google for that term,
there are hundreds to choose from) or just go to Wikipedia and
read up on the various terminology that has been used in this
thread. If you are not willing to educate yourself and are
/perhaps/ (?) getting tired of getting nowhere with this thread,
get a technician and pay him/her to fix your machine.

OTOH, generally speaking, I would hazard the statement that it
is rare to find a Windows computer which does not exhibit SOME,
however minor, quirks or malfunctions. There are MUCH worse
things than not being able to use the Windows search utility -
and several alternatives have been mentioned. Why not just use
one of those and give it a rest?

SNIP

"OREALLY" wrote in
:

I don't think there is any data corruption on the backup
disc. Windows Search Engine just keeps on creating
duplicate and triplicate results etc....on and on and then
freezes everything up if you try to stop it.....at least on
that backup disk.

Interesting behavior. Your computer must be in tip-top shape.

CHKDISK completed the scan.......I
suppose if it found any errors it fixed them. I have no
idea how to view the results of the scan.

Do you know how to look at a screen in the front of you and read
what it says?
And if CHKDISK does not say "no problems found" or "found
problems and fixed them" like scandisk, why even bother using
it? Your system appears to have more serious problems than will
be fixed by a scan/check utility.

Not only is the
search function rather slow compared to other software like
Agent Ransack.........it doesn't seem to work at all in
some cases.

You have a computer with probably only one C: partition filled
with months/years of garbage and you don't know how to regularly
maintain/clean up your machine. Do some research and follow the
advice and your system MAY start behaving. [I say MAY because it
IS an MS product ;-) ]

BTW.....when I defragmented the backup disk (which the
analysis suggested)

Anyone who would defragment a backup disc, or even more, NEED to
do so (you don't backup a defragmented mess of sectors, you
defrag and THEN backup/image), needs to study the subject a
little more.

it showed that some files could not be
defragmented. I figure those must be the Acronis Image
files.

No, those can be defragmented, although I can not imagine why
one would ever need to do so if using Acronis (AND their system
to start with) correctly.

Files which won't defragment (unless you do some tweaking which
is usually not worth it) are read-only and/or system and/or
hidden files. They comprise a relatively small portion of an
average system and do not cause any problems defragging a well-
maintained correctly-running computer.

Perhaps they are confusing the XP search?

No offense, /you/ are confused.

I suggest you go to a good tech site (Google for that term,
there are hundreds to choose from) or just go to Wikipedia and
read up on the various terminology that has been used in this
thread. If you are not willing to educate yourself and are
/perhaps/ (?) getting tired of getting nowhere with this thread,
get a technician and pay him/her to fix your machine.

OTOH, generally speaking, I would hazard the statement that it
is rare to find a Windows computer which does not exhibit SOME,
however minor, quirks or malfunctions. There are MUCH worse
things than not being able to use the Windows search utility -
and several alternatives have been mentioned. Why not just use
one of those and give it a rest?

SNIP

On 09 Jan 2010, "OREALLY" wrote in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize:

Finally finished the scan!...Took 4hours.

But How do I tell if scancheck made any repairs?

If you were able to do the scan while the system was live, then the
results would be there on the terminal session screen. If you were
forced to do the scan at the next bootup, you will find the results of
the scan in the Application log in Event Viewer - Look for a Winlogon
event at the time of that bootup.

On 09 Jan 2010, "OREALLY" wrote in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize:

Finally finished the scan!...Took 4hours.

But How do I tell if scancheck made any repairs?

If you were able to do the scan while the system was live, then the
results would be there on the terminal session screen. If you were
forced to do the scan at the next bootup, you will find the results of
the scan in the Application log in Event Viewer - Look for a Winlogon
event at the time of that bootup.

It was the Acronis Image Backup file that was confusing the Search Function.
It's about 90GB and cannot be read without performing some functiom within
the program. Removing that folder solved the problem. Is there any way to
tell SEARCH to skip that folder?

Oreally

"Tim Meddick" wrote in message
...
That does sound like severe data corruption that could indicate a damaged
HD.

You say that this happens on your [D:] drive?

Is the [D:] drive a second [physical] hard-drive, or simply a different
partition on a single HD?*


*(If you have difficulty in knowing which - type the following into the
"Run" box on the Start Menu :

c:\windows\system32\diskmgmt.msc

..and locate the shaded area that represents your [D:] drive.

You can then see from this whether it is on the same physical disk as your
system [C:] drive or not).

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)




"OREALLY" wrote in message
...
Tried the search in Safe Mode........same problem when stopping search on
backup Seagate Drive...freezes up computer. Tried a CHKDISC in Safe Mode
also. It stalls out at the end of Phase 4....just sits there for hours!
There is a folder 'Acronis Image' with 90 GB of data in that backup
drive. I'm wondering if that has something to do with it?

Oreally

"Tim Meddick" wrote in message
...
"OREALLY" wrote in message
...
clipped "why should a third party search program like Ransack have
no problem "


I don't know for sure - just a thought...

Some search utils use a database. i.e. they take their pretty time over
searching all files on all drives, and then caching the results.

Then, when you "perform" the search it's actually the cached results
that are being searched - not the drives themselves.

This may not be it in your case though, but it is a possibility...

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)

It was the Acronis Image Backup file that was confusing the Search Function.
It's about 90GB and cannot be read without performing some functiom within
the program. Removing that folder solved the problem. Is there any way to
tell SEARCH to skip that folder?

Oreally

"Tim Meddick" wrote in message
...
That does sound like severe data corruption that could indicate a damaged
HD.

You say that this happens on your [D:] drive?

Is the [D:] drive a second [physical] hard-drive, or simply a different
partition on a single HD?*


*(If you have difficulty in knowing which - type the following into the
"Run" box on the Start Menu :

c:\windows\system32\diskmgmt.msc

..and locate the shaded area that represents your [D:] drive.

You can then see from this whether it is on the same physical disk as your
system [C:] drive or not).

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)




"OREALLY" wrote in message
...
Tried the search in Safe Mode........same problem when stopping search on
backup Seagate Drive...freezes up computer. Tried a CHKDISC in Safe Mode
also. It stalls out at the end of Phase 4....just sits there for hours!
There is a folder 'Acronis Image' with 90 GB of data in that backup
drive. I'm wondering if that has something to do with it?

Oreally

"Tim Meddick" wrote in message
...
"OREALLY" wrote in message
...
clipped "why should a third party search program like Ransack have
no problem "


I don't know for sure - just a thought...

Some search utils use a database. i.e. they take their pretty time over
searching all files on all drives, and then caching the results.

Then, when you "perform" the search it's actually the cached results
that are being searched - not the drives themselves.

This may not be it in your case though, but it is a possibility...

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)

Make the folder "hidden".

....in Explorer, choose "right-click" "Properties" on the folder you want search to
skip.

Place a checkmark in the box named "Hidden".

Open "Search" and make sure the option to "search hidden files and folders" is *not*
checkmarked.

You can then perform a search on any directory "tree" that contains the problem
folder without processing it.


*NB 99 times out of 100, making a folder "hidden" or "system" or both, does not make
a difference to a program that uses specially created folders, simply because they do
not have to search for it, but use an absolute path instead.

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)




"OREALLY" wrote in message
...
It was the Acronis Image Backup file that was confusing the Search Function. It's
about 90GB and cannot be read without performing some functiom within the program.
Removing that folder solved the problem. Is there any way to tell SEARCH to skip
that folder?

Oreally

"Tim Meddick" wrote in message
...
That does sound like severe data corruption that could indicate a damaged HD.

You say that this happens on your [D:] drive?

Is the [D:] drive a second [physical] hard-drive, or simply a different partition
on a single HD?*


*(If you have difficulty in knowing which - type the following into the "Run" box
on the Start Menu :

c:\windows\system32\diskmgmt.msc

..and locate the shaded area that represents your [D:] drive.

You can then see from this whether it is on the same physical disk as your system
[C:] drive or not).

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)




"OREALLY" wrote in message
...
Tried the search in Safe Mode........same problem when stopping search on backup
Seagate Drive...freezes up computer. Tried a CHKDISC in Safe Mode also. It stalls
out at the end of Phase 4....just sits there for hours! There is a folder
'Acronis Image' with 90 GB of data in that backup drive. I'm wondering if that
has something to do with it?

Oreally

"Tim Meddick" wrote in message
...
"OREALLY" wrote in message
...
clipped "why should a third party search program like Ransack have no
problem "


I don't know for sure - just a thought...

Some search utils use a database. i.e. they take their pretty time over
searching all files on all drives, and then caching the results.

Then, when you "perform" the search it's actually the cached results that are
being searched - not the drives themselves.

This may not be it in your case though, but it is a possibility...

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)

Make the folder "hidden".

....in Explorer, choose "right-click" "Properties" on the folder you want search to
skip.

Place a checkmark in the box named "Hidden".

Open "Search" and make sure the option to "search hidden files and folders" is *not*
checkmarked.

You can then perform a search on any directory "tree" that contains the problem
folder without processing it.


*NB 99 times out of 100, making a folder "hidden" or "system" or both, does not make
a difference to a program that uses specially created folders, simply because they do
not have to search for it, but use an absolute path instead.

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)




"OREALLY" wrote in message
...
It was the Acronis Image Backup file that was confusing the Search Function. It's
about 90GB and cannot be read without performing some functiom within the program.
Removing that folder solved the problem. Is there any way to tell SEARCH to skip
that folder?

Oreally

"Tim Meddick" wrote in message
...
That does sound like severe data corruption that could indicate a damaged HD.

You say that this happens on your [D:] drive?

Is the [D:] drive a second [physical] hard-drive, or simply a different partition
on a single HD?*


*(If you have difficulty in knowing which - type the following into the "Run" box
on the Start Menu :

c:\windows\system32\diskmgmt.msc

..and locate the shaded area that represents your [D:] drive.

You can then see from this whether it is on the same physical disk as your system
[C:] drive or not).

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)




"OREALLY" wrote in message
...
Tried the search in Safe Mode........same problem when stopping search on backup
Seagate Drive...freezes up computer. Tried a CHKDISC in Safe Mode also. It stalls
out at the end of Phase 4....just sits there for hours! There is a folder
'Acronis Image' with 90 GB of data in that backup drive. I'm wondering if that
has something to do with it?

Oreally

"Tim Meddick" wrote in message
...
"OREALLY" wrote in message
...
clipped "why should a third party search program like Ransack have no
problem "


I don't know for sure - just a thought...

Some search utils use a database. i.e. they take their pretty time over
searching all files on all drives, and then caching the results.

Then, when you "perform" the search it's actually the cached results that are
being searched - not the drives themselves.

This may not be it in your case though, but it is a possibility...

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)

In ,
Tim Meddick typed:
As "Nil" pointed out - have you tried to follow his advice and run
CHKDSK /F from the Command Prompt, on your "D:" drive?

A PC "freezing" in the middle of a disk I/O operation can be
symptomatic of data corruption on the drive.

Definitely


Quite often hard-disk data corruption can be caused by many different
things and doesn't have to mean that your drive has nearly died.

In fact, that's most often the case, it would seem IME.

But the result can be that if Windows cannot read a section of a
drive, it will constantly go over and over the same spot trying to
read it, causing a "lock-up".

Windows will only attempt to read the bad block a set number of times, and
comparing it to past reads. If it never succeeds, it'll stop and throw an
error when the number of tries has been executed. It doesn't spin its wheels
forever. IIRC it'll be over in less than 60S; I want to say 20 or 30, but
I'm not certain of the time allotment. Never go by the "Not Responding"
message to immediately mean anything is locked up. Give it a proper amount
of time and if it's running it'll come back with results. TAsk Manager will
also show it as "not responding" but all it means is the cpu has blocked
interrupts from bothering it temporarily, most of the time.


The solution, if this is the case, is as simple as running CHKDSK /F
D: from a Command Prompt window (if files on the D: drive are in
use, you may have to press 'Y ' in answer to the question - Do you
want chkdsk to run at next boot? - then, when you next reboot, chkdsk
will run then).

Dunno about that being a solution for sure, but it's a logical step to take.
I thought chkdsk asked for permission to dismount disks with files in use?
Maybe not. Only the boot disk will force you to always do it on reboot
because files are always in use on it.
Personally if I have to stop to use chkdsk, I also allow it to do a
surface check of the entire drive. Takes longer but it's a chance to reload
the coffee cup (or ... ). Got one drive developed 4 bad sectors almost two
years ago; it's no worry unless the number of bad sectors increases
periodically. chkdsk /? will show the switches possible. The /r switch IIRC
is only available from the Repair Console. chkdsk /r includes /F also.

Twayne


==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)




"OREALLY" wrote in message
...
Apparently the problem is specific to the Backup 'D' drive. It takes
forever to search and seems to be repeating search of the files and
folders. This does not happen in the main 'C' drive search. It's
been scanning for almost 2 hours looking for wav files. There is
about 200GB worth of info on the 500GB drive. Still searching.....if I
stop the search...computer freezes up.

Ransack finds about 600 wav files on this drive in a few
minutes.....so what's with XP?



"Nil" wrote in message
...
On 07 Jan 2010, "OREALLY" wrote in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.customize:

Whenever I STOP a search while it is searching the computer
freezes up and I have to go to task manager to end the search. Any
reason or repair for this?

Maybe there is some file system corruption that Search is choking
on. It might be a good idea to run CHKDSK... but better back up
your data and system first, in case it decides to repair your disk
into an unbootable condition.