Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man'selectrocution

In article , Wolf K
wrote:

And what's more (older?) Mac OS
versions wouldn't even let you copy and paste a file!

because that's a very stupid way to move files, and dragging is faster.

For older folk with declining fine motor skills, Copy'n'Paste is safer.
And we're all eventually older folk.

it's not safer. it's a two step process, which is *more* confusing and
more prone to error as well as being inconsistent with the rest of the
ui, something which affects everyone, not just for old people.

For me, the well-thought-out, intuitive ways of doing things on a Mac
weren't enough to keep me there, because there were almost no
alternatives, either built-in or via 3rd party programs.

of course there were alternatives.

you just didn't look for any.

On 5/4/17, 3:02 PM, in article ,
"nospam" wrote:

In article , Snit
wrote:


That's why Apple users love
Photoshop.

as do windows users.

photoshop's user base is roughly half mac, half windows.

I know that used to be the case but have not seen stats in some time. Do you
have any fairly recent ones?

the exact number doesn't matter. photoshop is *not* in any way mac-only
nor predominantly mac. a substantial number of windows users use
photoshop because it's one of the best, if not the best image editing
app around.

No argument here. I am curious though if it has moved from being roughly
50/50. If it has I would expect it to toward Windows, which would shoot down
his claim even more. But really I am just curious of the current stats.

And what's more (older?) Mac OS
versions wouldn't even let you copy and paste a file!

because that's a very stupid way to move files, and dragging is faster.

It is not something I do often but there was enough demand for it I can see
why Apple added it.

it was added solely because windows switchers whined.

cut/paste to move files is inconsistent with the ui. cutting means
*delete* what's selected, whether or not it's pasted, which is *not*
what you want to do when cutting a file. if you don't 'paste' the file,
it should be deleted to remain consistent, except it isn't because that
would cause all sorts of unwanted file deletions.

Agreed, though there are other inconsistencies and broken metaphors in GUIs.

I was happier when they added things like resizing from any side (and they
took it further and added proportional resizing as well as resizing from the
center... both of which I only rarely use but they are sometimes helpful)
and when they added contextual menus and drag indicators. Oh, and windows
snapping to each other. All of these were seen first on Windows or Linux DEs
and later came to the Mac.

i much prefer being able to drag from the edge of the window.

Yes. In my view took Apple too long to move away from using just the lower
right.

The Mac introduced the world to what most things we consider the norm in
modern GUIs, but it is not as if others have not added to that.

yep

That and windows snapping together were big for me. Still wish Apple would
add more window management features. I use a program called "Breeze" to get
the features I want: http://autumnapps.com/breeze. Lots of other good
options, too.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

In article , Snit
wrote:

That's why Apple users love
Photoshop.

as do windows users.

photoshop's user base is roughly half mac, half windows.

I know that used to be the case but have not seen stats in some time. Do
you
have any fairly recent ones?

the exact number doesn't matter. photoshop is *not* in any way mac-only
nor predominantly mac. a substantial number of windows users use
photoshop because it's one of the best, if not the best image editing
app around.

No argument here. I am curious though if it has moved from being roughly
50/50. If it has I would expect it to toward Windows, which would shoot down
his claim even more. But really I am just curious of the current stats.

if anything, it's more mac than it was before.

On 5/4/17, 3:02 PM, in article ,
"nospam" wrote:

In article , Snit
wrote:

PDF is evil, Windows users avoid that Apple-based ****.

LOL! So you have no method on Windows. OK.

Oh, and PDF is an Adobe product, not Apple.

not anymore it isn't. pdf is an official iso standard.

True... but it started with Adobe and they still are the de facto standard.

pdf started with adobe, but it *not* adobe anymore nor is it a de facto
standard.

What makes you think the Acrobat Reader is no longer the de facto standard?

that's a common app for reading pdf, but not the only way.

Agreed. But by "de facto" standard that is pretty much what I mean.

it's an official iso standard, iso 32000-1:2008:
https://www.iso.org/standard/51502.html

Not in contention.

apparently it is.

Ok, not by me.

But the idea it is "Apple" is sorta silly.

it's not silly at all. it's an amazing level of ignorance and stupidity.

I would say ignorance... but not stupidity. No reason for everyone to know
these things.

it's clearly both.

This is similar to the MS Office file formats -- they are open but MS is
still the de facto standard.

ms office is not an official iso standard nor will it ever be.

there are also a bunch of them. sometimes even microsoft's own apps can't
read certain variants.

I am speaking of the "Office Open XML File Formats" which are ISO standards
and for which MS Office is the de facto standard tool for working with them.

https://www.iso.org/standard/51463.html

didn't realize that was iso.

Fair enough. Now you do.

that still leaves older office formats.

Sure. And as far as I know other program fully supports any of the Office
Open XML files. Still, it is an open standard and others support it to some
extent.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

In article , Snit
wrote:

PDF is evil, Windows users avoid that Apple-based ****.

LOL! So you have no method on Windows. OK.

Oh, and PDF is an Adobe product, not Apple.

not anymore it isn't. pdf is an official iso standard.

True... but it started with Adobe and they still are the de facto
standard.

pdf started with adobe, but it *not* adobe anymore nor is it a de facto
standard.

What makes you think the Acrobat Reader is no longer the de facto standard?

that's a common app for reading pdf, but not the only way.

Agreed. But by "de facto" standard that is pretty much what I mean.

for reading on windows and linux, maybe, but not on macs. on a mac, pdf
is a native format, just like text.

his original claim was about pdf, not an app.

On 5/4/17, 3:34 PM, in article ,
"nospam" wrote:

In article , Snit
wrote:

PDF is evil, Windows users avoid that Apple-based ****.

LOL! So you have no method on Windows. OK.

Oh, and PDF is an Adobe product, not Apple.

not anymore it isn't. pdf is an official iso standard.

True... but it started with Adobe and they still are the de facto
standard.

pdf started with adobe, but it *not* adobe anymore nor is it a de facto
standard.

What makes you think the Acrobat Reader is no longer the de facto standard?

that's a common app for reading pdf, but not the only way.

Agreed. But by "de facto" standard that is pretty much what I mean.

for reading on windows and linux, maybe, but not on macs. on a mac, pdf
is a native format, just like text.

True. I was speaking in a more general sense -- if you send someone a form
it is mostly likely going to be read in an Adobe format, especially if it is
a form used by the general public. Many sites still point you to Adobe
products even.

It also *used* to be that checkboxes were not handled the same on Apple's
solution as they were with Adobe's. At least for some documents if you
filled in checkboxes on Preview they would not be seen in Reader.

Just tested one of those files: worked flawlessly now (before I had
speculated that it might have been a difference in the form, but that is not
the case).

his original claim was about pdf, not an app.

I think for the most part we are in agreement he PDF is an open standard
well supported by many tools from many companies and even open source
projects. With that said, it does have ties to Adobe and their products are
likely the most common to be used with it on Windows, and given the
popularity of Windows those products are the most common in general. As to
if that makes it enough where the term "de facto standard" applies or not we
might disagree... but whatever.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

On 5/4/17, 2:51 PM, in article , "Wolf K"
wrote:

And what's more (older?) Mac OS
versions wouldn't even let you copy and paste a file!

because that's a very stupid way to move files, and dragging is faster.

For older folk with declining fine motor skills, Copy'n'Paste is safer.
And we're all eventually older folk.

For me, the well-thought-out, intuitive ways of doing things on a Mac
weren't enough to keep me there, because there were almost no
alternatives, either built-in or via 3rd party programs.

First: I agree there are areas where Macs do not have software that covers
the areas that Windows does... but I am curious what areas you mean. Gaming
is a huge and often referenced area but there are others.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

On 5/4/17, 3:31 PM, in article ,
"nospam" wrote:

In article , Snit
wrote:

That's why Apple users love
Photoshop.

as do windows users.

photoshop's user base is roughly half mac, half windows.

I know that used to be the case but have not seen stats in some time. Do
you
have any fairly recent ones?

the exact number doesn't matter. photoshop is *not* in any way mac-only
nor predominantly mac. a substantial number of windows users use
photoshop because it's one of the best, if not the best image editing
app around.

No argument here. I am curious though if it has moved from being roughly
50/50. If it has I would expect it to toward Windows, which would shoot down
his claim even more. But really I am just curious of the current stats.

if anything, it's more mac than it was before.

I would expect otherwise... but admit I do not know.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

On 5/4/17, 2:47 PM, in article , "Wolf K"
wrote:

On 2017-05-04 15:49, nospam wrote:
[...]

it's not just linux. people often cite specs to 'prove' one product is
better than the other.

more gigahertz, more pixels, more buttons, whatever it is. at the end
of the day, it makes very little difference.

it's not like anyone can even tell what the specs of the computer that
was used to produce a photo, video, brochure or whatever else.
[...][

... more cubic inches, more horsepower, more torque...

Number fetishism.

For me the measure is how well does it allow me to get a task done. I do not
care if the chip it runs off of is a Dorito... if it works I am happy.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

On 5/4/17, 3:02 PM, in article ,
"nospam" wrote:

In article , Wolf K
wrote:

And what's more (older?) Mac OS
versions wouldn't even let you copy and paste a file!

because that's a very stupid way to move files, and dragging is faster.

For older folk with declining fine motor skills, Copy'n'Paste is safer.
And we're all eventually older folk.

it's not safer. it's a two step process, which is *more* confusing and
more prone to error as well as being inconsistent with the rest of the
ui, something which affects everyone, not just for old people.

I am happy with their being choice.

With that said, I have worked with many people helping them with computers
in their 80s and older... and I cannot recall a time any of them ever did a
copy (or cut) and paste on a file. May have happened but it is certainly not
the norm.

For me, the well-thought-out, intuitive ways of doing things on a Mac
weren't enough to keep me there, because there were almost no
alternatives, either built-in or via 3rd party programs.

of course there were alternatives.

you just didn't look for any.

Well, depends on the software. I know a large number of people into
quilting, for example, and they swear by "Electric Quilt". It *now* has a
Mac version but for many years it did not. For some of them this one
application was a key reason they wanted a computer -- one of the main
things they used it for... and a Mac was not even on the table (yes, they
could have run Windows in a VM but none did).

Looking at their requirements I see they STILL list "Adobe Reader" as
something you need. Really?!

https://goo.gl/Sy04QA



--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

In article
Snit wrote:

On 5/4/17, 2:40 PM, in article , "Wolf K"
wrote:

On 2017-05-04 15:45, Snit wrote:
On 5/4/17, 12:38 PM, in article , "James Wilkinson
Sword" wrote:

On Thu, 04 May 2017 20:19:26 +0100, Snit
wrote:

On 5/4/17, 12:01 PM, in article , "James Wilkinson
Sword" wrote:
[...]
bELIVING IN ****E LIKE CLIMATE CHANGE IS AS BAD AS BEING RELIGIOUS.

****, caps lock, can't be bothered rewriting.

I accept science and the data / evidence that backs it and deny the
anti-science nonsense people use to promote socialism for the rich. I did
not know you were one of the ones pushing such socialism. For me it is fine
that people disagree on if we should socialize the costs of using ancient
stores of carbon, but I wish those who pushed for us to do so would be
direct and admit that is what they are pushing for. The fact they use
science denial to get to that goal shows they cannot really support the
socialism they are backing.

It's nothing to do with socialism.

Socializing the costs of using ancient stores of carbon clearly has a LOT to
do with socialism... though it is for the rich.

JWS doesn't understand that "socialise costs" is an economics term, not
a political one. Hey, James, it means "not paying for any damage you do
to the air, water, soil, etc and so on and so forth". AKA shifting the
cost of "externals" onto the general economy. It's the main reason the
"free market" has never been free, and has repeatedly failed. Adam
Smith's ideal free market works if and only if all prices measure the
actual cost of providing the goods and services on offer. Since prices
don't and never will do this, there is no such thing as a free market.

Absolutely agreed. I am not against capitalism as a PART of an economic
system but it, alone, is no better than socialism alone.

In fact it's the capitalists who "deny" climate change. It's the left wing
greenie treehuggers who think we have the power to change the climate more
than that huge nuclear reaction in the sky.

Climate is a chaotic system, in which the effects of small changes in
some variable increase rapidly once it reaches a certain value, because
of inter-dependent feedback loops. If JWS has had as much technical
experience as he claims, he knows what feedback is, so he should have no
trouble understanding why doubling the CO2 content of the atmosphere
will trigger climate changes. But I don't think he's had one-tenth of
the technical experience or expertise that he claims. He's a yob,
ignorant as a boot.

The only unknown about global warming is how fast it will proceed. It
has already begun. It will probably accelerate.

Again, absolutely agreed. And going to ANY website of any scientific group
even somewhat tied to the issue will support that.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

In article , Wolf K
wrote:

the exact number doesn't matter. photoshop is *not* in any way mac-only
nor predominantly mac. a substantial number of windows users use
photoshop because it's one of the best, if not the best image editing
app around.

For pros and semi-pros, yes. For the average user who just wants to
tweak a photo or make a quick sketch, not so much. It's overloaded. If
you don't use it every day, you forget which menu has what, which tool
does what, how to repeat some effect that you liked last time. Etc.

the full photoshop might be overloaded for an average user, but an
average used would never have considered buying it.

instead, they'd get photoshop elements for around $50 street price,
which is often bundled with hardware, so the cost is basically free.

Simpler programs, which do less, are better for most people. It's easier
to use a program for one or two effects than to wade through menus to
find those effects in a heavy-duty editor like Photoshop.

photoshop elements is easy to use and has wizards for average users.

there are other options that are free but they do very little and not
particularly well either.

In article
Snit wrote:

On 5/4/17, 2:52 PM, in article , "James Wilkinson
Sword" wrote:

On Thu, 04 May 2017 22:40:52 +0100, Wolf K wrote:

On 2017-05-04 15:45, Snit wrote:
On 5/4/17, 12:38 PM, in article , "James Wilkinson
Sword" wrote:

On Thu, 04 May 2017 20:19:26 +0100, Snit
wrote:

On 5/4/17, 12:01 PM, in article , "James
Wilkinson
Sword" wrote:
[...]
bELIVING IN ****E LIKE CLIMATE CHANGE IS AS BAD AS BEING RELIGIOUS.

****, caps lock, can't be bothered rewriting.

I accept science and the data / evidence that backs it and deny the
anti-science nonsense people use to promote socialism for the rich. I did
not know you were one of the ones pushing such socialism. For me it is
fine
that people disagree on if we should socialize the costs of using ancient
stores of carbon, but I wish those who pushed for us to do so would be
direct and admit that is what they are pushing for. The fact they use
science denial to get to that goal shows they cannot really support the
socialism they are backing.

It's nothing to do with socialism.

Socializing the costs of using ancient stores of carbon clearly has a LOT to
do with socialism... though it is for the rich.

JWS doesn't understand that "socialise costs" is an economics term, not
a political one. Hey, James, it means "not paying for any damage you do
to the air, water, soil, etc and so on and so forth". AKA shifting the
cost of "externals" onto the general economy. It's the main reason the
"free market" has never been free, and has repeatedly failed. Adam
Smith's ideal free market works if and only if all prices measure the
actual cost of providing the goods and services on offer. Since prices
don't and never will do this, there is no such thing as a free market.

In fact it's the capitalists who "deny" climate change. It's the left wing
greenie treehuggers who think we have the power to change the climate more
than that huge nuclear reaction in the sky.

Climate is a chaotic system, in which the effects of small changes in
some variable increase rapidly once it reaches a certain value, because
of inter-dependent feedback loops. If JWS has had as much technical
experience as he claims, he knows what feedback is, so he should have no
trouble understanding why doubling the CO2 content of the atmosphere
will trigger climate changes. But I don't think he's had one-tenth of
the technical experience or expertise that he claims. He's a yob,
ignorant as a boot.

The only unknown about global warming is how fast it will proceed. It
has already begun. It will probably accelerate.

Way bigger inputs occur naturally and always have.

The implication here is that the climate models do not take into account
these larger inputs (say the effect of the sun). This is an ignorant or
dishonest implication. At the very best it is a dodge from the topic of
man-made global climate change.

Why do you think we've had hot and cold periods in the past before
industrialisation?

Nobody has denounced the idea there have been natural changes. But once
again the assumption is scientists have not taken these into account. It is
a false assumption.

Anyone who believes the government hype about global warming is as stupid as
those who believe in god.

I spoke of science and evidence and data... I said NOTHING of any
government.

You have a belief held in a religious-like way that the evidence is wrong.
Fine. I do not like it but I cannot change it. But not expect me to adopt
your religion.


--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

On Thu, 04 May 2017 20:12:47 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 20:57:12 +0100, Char Jackson wrote:

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 15:40:08 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

There are between 37 and 44 phonemes in English, depending on which
dialects you speak (and how the phonemes are counted). A phoneme is a
sound that contrasts with another to make a different word, eg
bull/pull, bull/ball/bell/bale/etc. The main difference between dialects
is the number of vowels. Eg, in "John went to marry merry Mary", I say
three different vowels in those last three words, while an American will
likely use the same vowel for all.

I am what you called American and those three words sound identical to
me. ;-)

How the **** do you guys communicate with each other with so few vowel sounds? If all the words sound the same....

It's that thing called context. Remember, we talked about that recently?
At the time, you had no idea what context meant, but you should know
about it now.

It helps to speak two or more languages.

I'm not fluent in any other language, but I speak a small bit of German,
Spanish, and Tagalog.

Never even heard of Tagalog. Is it from Star Trek or something?

There are a lot of ignorant people, but few who wear it as proudly as
you do.

On 2017-05-04 18:02, nospam wrote:
In article , Wolf K
wrote:

And what's more (older?) Mac OS
versions wouldn't even let you copy and paste a file!

because that's a very stupid way to move files, and dragging is faster.