Apple told to warn against charging phone in bath after man'selectrocution

On 2017-05-04 19:17, Snit wrote:
On 5/4/17, 2:51 PM, in article , "Wolf K"
wrote:

And what's more (older?) Mac OS
versions wouldn't even let you copy and paste a file!

because that's a very stupid way to move files, and dragging is faster.

In article , Wolf K
wrote:


I had a Powerbook G4. Bought it because I wanted it for simple
plug'n'play in internet cafes. Windows laptops were just catching up
back then. I'd also formed the impression that the Mac would be a better
machine for graphics etc. It wasn't. I wanted something as simple and
powerful as PmView (a nice little image viewer-editor for DOS, Windows
and OS/2, which is now orphanware).

there were all sorts of image viewers and editors available. you just
didn't bother looking particularly hard.

Nothing like it in the Mac world. I
tried the bundled photo-app, gaah! Pathetic.

in another post, you said most people only need to make minor tweaks to
photos. the bundled photos app, then called iphoto, was mostly that.

There simply wasn't the range and quality of 3rd party software
available for the Mac. Things have changed some since then, but it's too
late to win me back.

your loss.

In article , Wolf K
wrote:

cut/paste to move files is inconsistent with the ui. cutting means
*delete* what's selected, whether or not it's pasted, which is *not*
what you want to do when cutting a file. if you don't 'paste' the file,
it should be deleted to remain consistent, except it isn't because that
would cause all sorts of unwanted file deletions.

Where did you get that idea?

from actually doing it.

It's Copy & Paste for files. Cut & Paste is for moving stuff around in a
document

both work on files, but the latter is inconsistent with cut/paste in a
document.

(but WordPerfect also has drag'n'move function).

just about every text editor has drag/drop text editing.

In article , Wolf K
wrote:

And what's more (older?) Mac OS
versions wouldn't even let you copy and paste a file!

because that's a very stupid way to move files, and dragging is faster.

For older folk with declining fine motor skills, Copy'n'Paste is safer.
And we're all eventually older folk.

it's not safer. it's a two step process, which is *more* confusing and
more prone to error as well as being inconsistent with the rest of the
ui, something which affects everyone, not just for old people.

I'm finding drag'n'drop harder to do now than I used to, and I do a lot
of it. Dragging from the right-hand pane to the correct folder name in
the left hand pane is tricky.

that sounds like column mode, which is not optimal for moving files.

Anyone whose hands are beginning to shake
has even more problems with drag'n'drop.

there are all sorts of accessibility options for those with shaky hands
as well as other motor skill impairments, visual impairments and much
more.

For me, the well-thought-out, intuitive ways of doing things on a Mac
weren't enough to keep me there, because there were almost no
alternatives, either built-in or via 3rd party programs.

of course there were alternatives.

you just didn't look for any.

Oh yes, I did.

not a very effective one. otherwise you would have found numerous
alternatives.

If I'd found the same quality and variety as I was used
to from the Windows world (Win2000 by the time I stopped using the
Powerbook), I would probably still be a Mac user. I gave the Powerbook
to my grand-daughter, who liked her friend's Powerbook, but she replaced
it with a Windows machine about a year later. She now has an iPad for
fun, and a Windows laptop for work.

the raw quantity of apps may be higher on windows, but the quality is
lower, often substantially so.

not that it matters, since all windows apps run natively on a mac, as
do almost all linux apps (the only ones are ones which rely on linux
specifics), which means a mac has the *widest* choice of software of
any platform.

BTW, as part of my volunteer service on a board of directors, I used an
iPad for a couple of years. Didn't change my opinion of Apple products.
They do what they do very well indeed, and if their work style suits
you, you'll be very happy. But if you have any maverick tendencies,
Apple is not for you.

nonsense.

also, don't make the mistake of comparing a tablet os (android or ipad)
to a desktop os (mac or windows). they have two very different design
goals and very different use cases.

And that's my considered opinion.

you're certainly welcome to your opinion, even if it's demonstrably
wrong.

In article , Snit
wrote:

On 5/4/17, 2:51 PM, in article , "Wolf K"
wrote:

And what's more (older?) Mac OS
versions wouldn't even let you copy and paste a file!

because that's a very stupid way to move files, and dragging is faster.

For older folk with declining fine motor skills, Copy'n'Paste is safer.
And we're all eventually older folk.

For me, the well-thought-out, intuitive ways of doing things on a Mac
weren't enough to keep me there, because there were almost no
alternatives, either built-in or via 3rd party programs.

First: I agree there are areas where Macs do not have software that covers
the areas that Windows does...

and the opposite too

but I am curious what areas you mean. Gaming
is a huge and often referenced area but there are others.

accounting is a major one.

graphics on the other hand is mostly the same, if not a bit better on
macs, since more artists use macs than windows.

On 5/4/17, 5:53 PM, in article , "Wolf K"
wrote:

On 2017-05-04 19:17, Snit wrote:
On 5/4/17, 2:51 PM, in article , "Wolf K"
wrote:

And what's more (older?) Mac OS
versions wouldn't even let you copy and paste a file!

because that's a very stupid way to move files, and dragging is faster.

For older folk with declining fine motor skills, Copy'n'Paste is safer.
And we're all eventually older folk.

For me, the well-thought-out, intuitive ways of doing things on a Mac
weren't enough to keep me there, because there were almost no
alternatives, either built-in or via 3rd party programs.

First: I agree there are areas where Macs do not have software that covers
the areas that Windows does... but I am curious what areas you mean. Gaming
is a huge and often referenced area but there are others.

I had a Powerbook G4. Bought it because I wanted it for simple
plug'n'play in internet cafes. Windows laptops were just catching up
back then. I'd also formed the impression that the Mac would be a better
machine for graphics etc. It wasn't. I wanted something as simple and
powerful as PmView (a nice little image viewer-editor for DOS, Windows
and OS/2, which is now orphanware). Nothing like it in the Mac world. I
tried the bundled photo-app, gaah! Pathetic.

Photos, or iPhoto from those days, is more of an organizer with a few simple
editing bits. Its benefit is you can create photo albums or (now) group
people by faces and have other categories created their and use them in
almost any program. For example, if I am working in a video editing
application and I want to pull in images from my "2016 Work Party" album I
can easily select that from within the other program. That does come in
handy.

I do not know PmView at all -- other than what I see on their page. There
are many options on Macs for similar things... the one I used to use is
called Graphic Converter:

https://www.lemkesoft.de/en/products/graphicconverter

For image editing and more, one nice feature on the Mac is having a color
selector which can be accessed from pretty much any program. This comes in
VERY handy when working on a project in multiple programs. Some time ago I
made a video showing some aspects of this to someone who uses Linux and was
showing off how he could export and import colors from programs. On macOS is
just works... no need for the exporting and importing even. I show the quick
swatches and then also adding it to a palette you might want to keep around
for longer:

https://youtu.be/eC3Fz_mMP0Y

I did not show in that video all the ways you can select and work with
colors, but there is a lot (CMYK, RGB, HTML, and *many* more). And you can
add extensions to it. This is great if you have a project and want to keep a
color scheme for each part of it.

There simply wasn't the range and quality of 3rd party software available for
the Mac. Things have changed some since then, but it's too late to win me
back.

Graphic Converter has been around a long time... but please do not think I
am trying to "convert" you or whatever. You have a tool that works for you.
Cool. Use what you like... and as you show it (if you do) perhaps I can
learn from you.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

On 5/4/17, 6:07 PM, in article ,
"nospam" wrote:

In article , Snit
wrote:

On 5/4/17, 2:51 PM, in article , "Wolf K"
wrote:

And what's more (older?) Mac OS
versions wouldn't even let you copy and paste a file!

because that's a very stupid way to move files, and dragging is faster.

For older folk with declining fine motor skills, Copy'n'Paste is safer.
And we're all eventually older folk.

For me, the well-thought-out, intuitive ways of doing things on a Mac
weren't enough to keep me there, because there were almost no
alternatives, either built-in or via 3rd party programs.

First: I agree there are areas where Macs do not have software that covers
the areas that Windows does...

and the opposite too

but I am curious what areas you mean. Gaming
is a huge and often referenced area but there are others.

accounting is a major one.

I worked at Intuit and supported TurboTax and Quicken... but also know for
years the Mac versions of Quicken and QuickBooks did less. Maybe they still
do... have not kept up.

graphics on the other hand is mostly the same, if not a bit better on
macs, since more artists use macs than windows.

I use Photoshop on Mac and Windows. I really like how if I use a set of
colors in Photoshop I can also easily use them in Pages and Numbers and MS
Word and Excel and pretty much any other place I want. Even without that the
color picker is just much better. Other than that, though, Photoshop is
pretty much the same on the two platforms.



--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

On 5/4/17, 4:56 PM, in article , "Wolf K"
wrote:

On 2017-05-04 18:02, nospam wrote:
[...]
the exact number doesn't matter. photoshop is *not* in any way mac-only
nor predominantly mac. a substantial number of windows users use
photoshop because it's one of the best, if not the best image editing
app around.
[...]

For pros and semi-pros, yes. For the average user who just wants to
tweak a photo or make a quick sketch, not so much. It's overloaded. If
you don't use it every day, you forget which menu has what, which tool
does what, how to repeat some effect that you liked last time. Etc.

Right... it is definitely a pro-tool. For the average consumer there is
Photoshop Elements and a LOT of other options that are great.

Simpler programs, which do less, are better for most people. It's easier
to use a program for one or two effects than to wade through menus to
find those effects in a heavy-duty editor like Photoshop.

Sure... depends on the person, the task, etc.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

In article , Snit
wrote:


but I am curious what areas you mean. Gaming
is a huge and often referenced area but there are others.

accounting is a major one.

I worked at Intuit and supported TurboTax and Quicken... but also know for
years the Mac versions of Quicken and QuickBooks did less. Maybe they still
do... have not kept up.

i'm talking real accounting, not home user stuff.

graphics on the other hand is mostly the same, if not a bit better on
macs, since more artists use macs than windows.

I use Photoshop on Mac and Windows. I really like how if I use a set of
colors in Photoshop I can also easily use them in Pages and Numbers and MS
Word and Excel and pretty much any other place I want. Even without that the
color picker is just much better. Other than that, though, Photoshop is
pretty much the same on the two platforms.

mostly true.

some key differences include photoshop supported 16 bit printing on mac
before it did on windows, and even today, it doesn't always work
properly on windows.

colour management on mac is also better, which is not just photoshop.

On 5/4/17, 6:55 PM, in article ,
"nospam" wrote:

In article , Snit
wrote:


but I am curious what areas you mean. Gaming
is a huge and often referenced area but there are others.

accounting is a major one.

I worked at Intuit and supported TurboTax and Quicken... but also know for
years the Mac versions of Quicken and QuickBooks did less. Maybe they still
do... have not kept up.

i'm talking real accounting, not home user stuff.

Well, QuickBooks is not just home accounting, but, sure, there are high end
programs for big corporations and from what I know Windows serves better
there. No argument here.

graphics on the other hand is mostly the same, if not a bit better on
macs, since more artists use macs than windows.

I use Photoshop on Mac and Windows. I really like how if I use a set of
colors in Photoshop I can also easily use them in Pages and Numbers and MS
Word and Excel and pretty much any other place I want. Even without that the
color picker is just much better. Other than that, though, Photoshop is
pretty much the same on the two platforms.

mostly true.

some key differences include photoshop supported 16 bit printing on mac
before it did on windows, and even today, it doesn't always work
properly on windows.

colour management on mac is also better, which is not just photoshop.

I do not use those features so did not even think of them but, yes, you are
correct.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

On 5/4/17, 6:05 PM, in article ,
"nospam" wrote:

In article , Wolf K
wrote:


I had a Powerbook G4. Bought it because I wanted it for simple
plug'n'play in internet cafes. Windows laptops were just catching up
back then. I'd also formed the impression that the Mac would be a better
machine for graphics etc. It wasn't. I wanted something as simple and
powerful as PmView (a nice little image viewer-editor for DOS, Windows
and OS/2, which is now orphanware).

there were all sorts of image viewers and editors available. you just
didn't bother looking particularly hard.

Nothing like it in the Mac world. I
tried the bundled photo-app, gaah! Pathetic.

in another post, you said most people only need to make minor tweaks to
photos. the bundled photos app, then called iphoto, was mostly that.

When Picasa was still around it was a decent comparisons for Windows, but
did not tie into any system wide media browser.

There simply wasn't the range and quality of 3rd party software
available for the Mac. Things have changed some since then, but it's too
late to win me back.

your loss.


--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

On 5/4/17, 5:27 PM, in article , "Wolf K"
wrote:

On 2017-05-04 18:02, nospam wrote:
In article , Wolf K
wrote:

And what's more (older?) Mac OS
versions wouldn't even let you copy and paste a file!

because that's a very stupid way to move files, and dragging is faster.

For older folk with declining fine motor skills, Copy'n'Paste is safer.
And we're all eventually older folk.

it's not safer. it's a two step process, which is *more* confusing and
more prone to error as well as being inconsistent with the rest of the
ui, something which affects everyone, not just for old people.

I'm finding drag'n'drop harder to do now than I used to, and I do a lot
of it. Dragging from the right-hand pane to the correct folder name in
the left hand pane is tricky. Anyone whose hands are beginning to shake
has even more problems with drag'n'drop.

For me, the well-thought-out, intuitive ways of doing things on a Mac
weren't enough to keep me there, because there were almost no
alternatives, either built-in or via 3rd party programs.

of course there were alternatives.

you just didn't look for any.

Oh yes, I did. If I'd found the same quality and variety as I was used
to from the Windows world (Win2000 by the time I stopped using the
Powerbook), I would probably still be a Mac user. I gave the Powerbook
to my grand-daughter, who liked her friend's Powerbook, but she replaced
it with a Windows machine about a year later. She now has an iPad for
fun, and a Windows laptop for work.

BTW, as part of my volunteer service on a board of directors, I used an
iPad for a couple of years. Didn't change my opinion of Apple products.
They do what they do very well indeed, and if their work style suits
you, you'll be very happy. But if you have any maverick tendencies,
Apple is not for you.

And that's my considered opinion.

I have no issue with you having that view but curious if you can give
specifics.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

On Fri, 05 May 2017 01:27:20 +0100, Char Jackson wrote:

On Thu, 04 May 2017 20:12:47 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 20:57:12 +0100, Char Jackson wrote:

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 15:40:08 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

There are between 37 and 44 phonemes in English, depending on which
dialects you speak (and how the phonemes are counted). A phoneme is a
sound that contrasts with another to make a different word, eg
bull/pull, bull/ball/bell/bale/etc. The main difference between dialects
is the number of vowels. Eg, in "John went to marry merry Mary", I say
three different vowels in those last three words, while an American will
likely use the same vowel for all.

I am what you called American and those three words sound identical to
me. ;-)

How the **** do you guys communicate with each other with so few vowel sounds? If all the words sound the same....

It's that thing called context.

So basically you have to make up for your retarded facial muscles by working out what people meant to say. Some words are absurd in American, like "mirror" becomes "myrrh" - seriously, why do you guys have such a problem with simple sounds? Do you not go to school and learn to speak?

Remember, we talked about that recently?
At the time, you had no idea what context meant, but you should know
about it now.

I've always known what context means.

It helps to speak two or more languages.

I'm not fluent in any other language, but I speak a small bit of German,
Spanish, and Tagalog.

Never even heard of Tagalog. Is it from Star Trek or something?

There are a lot of ignorant people, but few who wear it as proudly as
you do.

Why should I be interested in some silly little language nobody uses?

--
Paddy calls Easyjet to book a flight.
The operator asks "How many people are flying with you?"
Paddy replies "I don't know! It’s your flipping plane!"

In article , Wolf K
wrote:

the exact number doesn't matter. photoshop is *not* in any way mac-only
nor predominantly mac. a substantial number of windows users use
photoshop because it's one of the best, if not the best image editing
app around.

For pros and semi-pros, yes. For the average user who just wants to
tweak a photo or make a quick sketch, not so much. It's overloaded. If
you don't use it every day, you forget which menu has what, which tool
does what, how to repeat some effect that you liked last time. Etc.

the full photoshop might be overloaded for an average user, but an
average used would never have considered buying it.

instead, they'd get photoshop elements for around $50 street price,
which is often bundled with hardware, so the cost is basically free.

Simpler programs, which do less, are better for most people. It's easier
to use a program for one or two effects than to wade through menus to
find those effects in a heavy-duty editor like Photoshop.

photoshop elements is easy to use and has wizards for average users.

there are other options that are free but they do very little and not
particularly well either.

I have Elements, bought it at a Real Good Price, used it about a dozen
times, still too damn complicated. I used it to clean up scans of
damaged photographs, worked OK, but the repair tool is not as simple to
use as its designers seem to think.

much of it is automatic, so yes it is simple to use.

In fact, the select/copy/paste of a
much simpler program was much easier to use, since it repurposed
skills/methods I already knew, and the results were as good as with the
repair tool in Elements.

copy/paste in photoshop is no different than any other app.

Did I say that the menus are a major problem with Photoshop? Oh, yes, I
recall, I did. Well, they're no better in Elements.

what problems might those be?

because there aren't any major problems (or even minor problems) with
photoshop's menus.

Which isn't
surprising, since Elements is just an older version of Photoshop.

completely wrong.

photoshop elements is a consumer version of photoshop, without the pro
level features, such as cmyk, and sold at a consumer-friendly price.
that's all

pros, who need those features, get the pro version.

Wizards aren't as useful as they seem to be. Why? Because you can't use
a program to do something you couldn't do without it. Eg, if you can't
make a reasonably clear hand-drawn sketch of a floor plan, a drafting
program won't do it for you. If you don't understand what a financial
statement is, an accounting program is useless. If you can't compose a
story, using a wordprocessor won't make you a writer.

wizards were never intended to create a photo when none existed.

they're also not required.

Etc. Repeating the same points about why programs are so badly designed
is getting to be a bloody bore.

photoshop is not badly designed. in fact, it's one of the most well
designed apps on any platform.

it was designed by artists for artists, which is one of the main
reasons it's so easy to use and why it's so popular.

if you want to see badly designed, look no further than the gimp.

In article , Wolf K
wrote:
On 2017-05-04 21:05, nospam wrote:

I had a Powerbook G4. Bought it because I wanted it for simple
plug'n'play in internet cafes. Windows laptops were just catching up
back then. I'd also formed the impression that the Mac would be a better
machine for graphics etc. It wasn't. I wanted something as simple and
powerful as PmView (a nice little image viewer-editor for DOS, Windows
and OS/2, which is now orphanware).

there were all sorts of image viewers and editors available. you just
didn't bother looking particularly hard.

Ah, yes, I recall you visiting me and looking over my shoulder and
making notes. You no doubt consulted your records just now. So, how many
programs did I actually test?

apparently not very many.

why don't you list exactly which apps they were?

You know, I'm losing my temper with your asinine macdroid comments.

nothing about this is mac specific.

it's clear you hate macs and are looking for any excuse to bash them.

whatever search you claim to have done was nothing more than a cursory
search so you could confirm your ignorant belief that there isn't any
good software for macs.

the reality is that there were all sorts of image editing apps on a
mac, with plenty more now, ones that are far better than what was
available on windows and certainly linux, which is why graphic artists
overwhelmingly chose macs.

Nothing like it in the Mac world. I
tried the bundled photo-app, gaah! Pathetic.

in another post, you said most people only need to make minor tweaks to
photos. the bundled photos app, then called iphoto, was mostly that.

It's no better than PmView (or as XnView and Irfanview do now).

iphoto is not intended to do what pmview does.

no wonder you had problems.

From my
POV iPhoto had other flaws, mainly that it was also a photo-file
manager, and I didn't find a way to force it to use my folder-tree.

that's not a flaw. that's one of its major *features*.

keeping photos in a folder-tree is incredibly limiting and does not
scale. it's a very bad way to manage photos and other assets.

There's probably a way of doing that,

there is, but it's a bad idea.

but after using it twice and
finding that it wouldn't save the photos where I wanted them saved,

saving is automatic, as it should be.

I gave up on it.

of course you did, just like you gave up with your supposed search.

I built a Windows desktop, installed OS/2 (which ran
Windows natively), and used that.

thereby making a *lot* more work for yourself.

had you put half that effort into searching for available photo editors
on a mac, you'd have found something that did what you wanted in a way
you wanted, and if you learned about asset managers, you'd find out why
they're *very* useful (and it's not just an apple thing either).

There simply wasn't the range and quality of 3rd party software
available for the Mac. Things have changed some since then, but it's too
late to win me back.

your loss.

Not at all.

yes, at all.

There was only one program that almost persuaded me to stay with or go
back to the Mac: Metasynth. But I realised I don't have the talent to
use it properly.

further proof you never looked very hard for available apps.