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#31
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"BIOS problem" solved
Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 00:34:31 -0500, Paul wrote: Gene E. Bloch wrote: What does all that have to do with my youthful "understanding" of wire? Well, my young friend, this is wire with blue chewing gum inside. Try a bite... http://www.satacables.com/assets/images/IMG_188353.jpg Pauk To tell the truth, I don't think any of the things you've mentioned or linked to are a problem for standard lampcord at 60Hz (though it was called 60 cycles back then). The code words here, suggest lines over 240km long might be modeled as transmission lines. http://eee.guc.edu.eg/Courses/Electr...on%20Lines.pdf And the article here, suggests 775 miles as a good length at which to change electrical equivalent model. http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_14/5.html "For a 60 Hz AC power system, power lines would have to exceed 775 miles in length before the effects of propagation time became significant." And for various reasons, we don't build extremely long single hops for power transmission. So maybe switching modeling schemes, isn't a big issue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagn...nduced_current ******* At the frequency of interest (60Hz), the lamp cord is "electrically short", so a lumped model is sufficient to describe the behavior. If the electrical connection between two SATA devices was short enough, you might not need any special treatment of the signals. That distance would likely be a fraction of an inch, and so the distinction isn't an important one. For all practical SATA connection instances, you need transmission lines of appropriate design. (Copper tracks on a PCB can be used as transmission lines. Known as stripline or microstrip.) Paul |
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#32
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"BIOS problem" solved
Brian Gregory wrote:
I'm sure SATA does have terminators, it's just that they're built in to the devices at the ends of the cable, and there are no devices connected anywhere in the middle of the cable. My understanding is that PATA does too but that they're not terminated very precisely, so that whether you have one drive or two it still works "well enough". The IDE ribbon cable bus is source terminated (series damped). This is a Microsoft Word doc. See section D.2.2.4 "Source-terminated bus" on page 198. http://t13.org/Documents/UploadedDoc...0511%20GSR.DOC Paul |
#33
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"BIOS problem" solved
"Paul" wrote in message ... Gene E. Bloch wrote: On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 00:34:31 -0500, Paul wrote: Gene E. Bloch wrote: What does all that have to do with my youthful "understanding" of wire? Well, my young friend, this is wire with blue chewing gum inside. Try a bite... http://www.satacables.com/assets/images/IMG_188353.jpg Pauk To tell the truth, I don't think any of the things you've mentioned or linked to are a problem for standard lampcord at 60Hz (though it was called 60 cycles back then). The code words here, suggest lines over 240km long might be modeled as transmission lines. http://eee.guc.edu.eg/Courses/Electr...on%20Lines.pdf And the article here, suggests 775 miles as a good length at which to change electrical equivalent model. http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_14/5.html "For a 60 Hz AC power system, power lines would have to exceed 775 miles in length before the effects of propagation time became significant." And for various reasons, we don't build extremely long single hops for power transmission. So maybe switching modeling schemes, isn't a big issue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagn...nduced_current ******* At the frequency of interest (60Hz), the lamp cord is "electrically short", so a lumped model is sufficient to describe the behavior. If the electrical connection between two SATA devices was short enough, you might not need any special treatment of the signals. That distance would likely be a fraction of an inch, No it is not with the effect of a kink. and so the distinction isn't an important one. There is a reason for the limit to the length of SATA data cables. For all practical SATA connection instances, you need transmission lines of appropriate design. (Copper tracks on a PCB can be used as transmission lines. Known as stripline or microstrip.) That is a separate matter entirely to the effect of a kink. |
#34
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"BIOS problem" solved
In message , Gene E. Bloch
writes: On Fri, 7 Nov 2014 13:19:00 +0100, Linea Recta wrote: [] I always thought that uploading to a friend in Switserland took more time than the other way round because it had to go up the mountains! You also have to deal with a redshift due to relativistic effects. It wild be a blueshift going downhill. Or is it the other way around? Doesn't it depend whether you're going with the earth's rotation or against it? -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf # 10^-12 boos = 1 picoboo # 2*10^3 mockingbirds = 2 kilo mockingbird # 10^21 piccolos = 1 gigolo # 10^12 microphones = 1 megaphone # 10**9 questions = 1 gigawhat |
#35
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"BIOS problem" solved
In message , Brian
Gregory writes: On 06/11/2014 19:04, Rod Speed wrote: Paul wrote [] "Never bend a SATA data cable tighter than a 30 mm (1.18 in) radius. Never crease a SATA data cable." That isnt for the reason you were talking about. PLEASE EXPLAIN. He's probably claiming that those instructions are to do with damage rather than impedance changing. (Had he suggested that they might be _more_ to do with damage than impedance changing, he might have had something.) [] -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf # 10^-12 boos = 1 picoboo # 2*10^3 mockingbirds = 2 kilo mockingbird # 10^21 piccolos = 1 gigolo # 10^12 microphones = 1 megaphone # 10**9 questions = 1 gigawhat |
#36
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"BIOS problem" solved
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message ... In message , Brian Gregory writes: On 06/11/2014 19:04, Rod Speed wrote: Paul wrote [] "Never bend a SATA data cable tighter than a 30 mm (1.18 in) radius. Never crease a SATA data cable." That isnt for the reason you were talking about. PLEASE EXPLAIN. He's probably claiming that those instructions are to do with damage rather than impedance changing. Corse they are, because a radius of 25mm won't have any significant effect on the impedance. (Had he suggested that they might be _more_ to do with damage than impedance changing, he might have had something.) I have everything anyway. |
#37
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"BIOS problem" solved
On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 18:44:48 -0500, Paul wrote:
Gene E. Bloch wrote: On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 00:34:31 -0500, Paul wrote: Gene E. Bloch wrote: What does all that have to do with my youthful "understanding" of wire? Well, my young friend, this is wire with blue chewing gum inside. Try a bite... http://www.satacables.com/assets/images/IMG_188353.jpg Pauk To tell the truth, I don't think any of the things you've mentioned or linked to are a problem for standard lampcord at 60Hz (though it was called 60 cycles back then). The code words here, suggest lines over 240km long might be modeled as transmission lines. http://eee.guc.edu.eg/Courses/Electr...on%20Lines.pdf And the article here, suggests 775 miles as a good length at which to change electrical equivalent model. http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_14/5.html "For a 60 Hz AC power system, power lines would have to exceed 775 miles in length before the effects of propagation time became significant." And for various reasons, we don't build extremely long single hops for power transmission. So maybe switching modeling schemes, isn't a big issue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagn...nduced_current ******* At the frequency of interest (60Hz), the lamp cord is "electrically short", so a lumped model is sufficient to describe the behavior. If the electrical connection between two SATA devices was short enough, you might not need any special treatment of the signals. That distance would likely be a fraction of an inch, and so the distinction isn't an important one. For all practical SATA connection instances, you need transmission lines of appropriate design. (Copper tracks on a PCB can be used as transmission lines. Known as stripline or microstrip.) Paul OK, then there might be a problem with the old suggestion for an electric car that could go hundreds of miles on electricity, as long as the extension cord was long enough. -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#38
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"BIOS problem" solved
On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 10:18:54 +0000, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Gene E. Bloch writes: On Fri, 7 Nov 2014 13:19:00 +0100, Linea Recta wrote: [] I always thought that uploading to a friend in Switserland took more time than the other way round because it had to go up the mountains! You also have to deal with a redshift due to relativistic effects. It wild be a blueshift going downhill. Or is it the other way around? Doesn't it depend whether you're going with the earth's rotation or against it? I guess you have to take both that and the gravitational redshift into account. Thanks for reminding me - I had totally forgotten that. As for red vs blue shift, the real problem is that I don't remember which way it goes as you move up out of the depths of the gravitational well. We also need to account for the rotation direction of the water going out of the drain, IIRC. Or maybe we (OK, *I*) just need to get a life :-) -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#39
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"BIOS problem" solved
Gene E. Bloch wrote:
OK, then there might be a problem with the old suggestion for an electric car that could go hundreds of miles on electricity, as long as the extension cord was long enough. We'll just have to try it. Here, let me get my car out of the garage. I have a 240km cord around here somewhere... I did actually build an electric car as a kid. It used a washing machine motor. The pulleys weren't geared right, so I couldn't use it regularly. But I did get it to go about 20 or 30 feet around the side of the house. I can see me driving that baby to work now. And having the rubber belt snap halfway through the trip (because it wasn't geared right). I would have needed another pair of pulleys to get the ratio into the right range. Paul |
#40
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"BIOS problem" solved
On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 00:16:09 -0500, Paul wrote:
Gene E. Bloch wrote: OK, then there might be a problem with the old suggestion for an electric car that could go hundreds of miles on electricity, as long as the extension cord was long enough. We'll just have to try it. Here, let me get my car out of the garage. I have a 240km cord around here somewhere... Come on, Paul, one model of the Tesla has a 300 mi (almost 500 km) range and it doesn't even need an extension cord :-) After yesterday's posts, I got to thinking about street cars and what I call trackless trolleys. I realized that the overhead wires really function just like an extension cord. Kind of ruins the old joke :-) Trackless trolleys was the term when I was a kid in Philadelphia for electric buses that were powered like streetcars (called trolley cars in Phillie) by overhead wires. I mention that because all of those things had different names in the different cities I grew up in. I did actually build an electric car as a kid. It used a washing machine motor. The pulleys weren't geared right, so I couldn't use it regularly. But I did get it to go about 20 or 30 feet around the side of the house. I can see me driving that baby to work now. And having the rubber belt snap halfway through the trip (because it wasn't geared right). I would have needed another pair of pulleys to get the ratio into the right range. Paul That's really impressive, even if it didn't go far. Creative. -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#41
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"BIOS problem" solved
"Gene E. Bloch" not-me other.invalid wrote:
Paul wrote: Gene E. Bloch wrote: OK, then there might be a problem with the old suggestion for an electric car that could go hundreds of miles on electricity, as long as the extension cord was long enough. We'll just have to try it. Here, let me get my car out of the garage. I have a 240km cord around here somewhere... Come on, Paul, one model of the Tesla has a 300 mi (almost 500 km) range and it doesn't even need an extension cord :-) Bull****. -- After yesterday's posts, I got to thinking about street cars and what I call trackless trolleys. I realized that the overhead wires really function just like an extension cord. Kind of ruins the old joke :-) Trackless trolleys was the term when I was a kid in Philadelphia for electric buses that were powered like streetcars (called trolley cars in Phillie) by overhead wires. I mention that because all of those things had different names in the different cities I grew up in. I did actually build an electric car as a kid. It used a washing machine motor. The pulleys weren't geared right, so I couldn't use it regularly. But I did get it to go about 20 or 30 feet around the side of the house. I can see me driving that baby to work now. And having the rubber belt snap halfway through the trip (because it wasn't geared right). I would have needed another pair of pulleys to get the ratio into the right range. Paul That's really impressive, even if it didn't go far. Creative. Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) Path: eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal- september.org!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net ! storethat.news.telefonica.de!feedme.news.telefonic a.de!telefonica.de!fu- berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: "Gene E. Bloch" not-me other.invalid Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.stor age Subject: "BIOS problem" solved Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 11:22:53 -0800 Organization: Astrolabe Lines: 42 Message-ID: 7yjuo767wzes$.dlg stumbler1907.invalid References: m3b3p2$nhc$1 dont-email.me z8CdndWKROFZsMTJnZ2dnUU7- TudnZ2d posted.grandecom cbsq2eF56i8U1 mid.individual.net m3bgks$enm$1 dont-email.me cbv6meFo61jU1 mid.individual.net 1FoWBIAXQpWUFwNe soft255.demon.co.uk m3f3v8$ej2$1 dont-email.me cc0tkmF6vddU1 mid.individual.net m3firp$ra6$1 dont-email.me 1shqils4zgfwa.dlg stumbler1907.invalid m3gorp$oi3$1 dont-email.me cmfn0n09n73y.dlg stumbler1907.invalid m3hlku$a28$1 dont-email.me sheegq0npe80$.dlg stumbler1907.invalid m3m9tm$9d3$1 dont-email.me zdxxftjl32jp.dlg stumbler1907.invalid m3phmf$ulh$1 dont-email.me Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: individual.net rKRwxOFiSt27bWGm9L/1kQ7y02v2ynXrP/mIxsZj92Qk3Cd3tr Cancel-Lock: sha1:h3s2DMm6gXrH/zcpElRjt1x+rBM= User-Agent: 40tude_Dialog/2.0.15.84 Xref: mx02.eternal-september.org alt.windows7.general:111990 comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage:13034 |
#42
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"BIOS problem" solved
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 00:16:09 -0500, Paul wrote: Gene E. Bloch wrote: OK, then there might be a problem with the old suggestion for an electric car that could go hundreds of miles on electricity, as long as the extension cord was long enough. We'll just have to try it. Here, let me get my car out of the garage. I have a 240km cord around here somewhere... Come on, Paul, one model of the Tesla has a 300 mi (almost 500 km) range and it doesn't even need an extension cord :-) With the heater on? I seem to remember a less than enthusiastic review of the Tesla, specifically the milage claims, where Tesla's response was something like the reviewer didn't follow instructions -- poor guy used the heater. |
#43
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"BIOS problem" solved
On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 00:16:09 -0500, Paul wrote:
Gene E. Bloch wrote: OK, then there might be a problem with the old suggestion for an electric car that could go hundreds of miles on electricity, as long as the extension cord was long enough. We'll just have to try it. Here, let me get my car out of the garage. I have a 240km cord around here somewhere... I did actually build an electric car as a kid. It used a washing machine motor. The pulleys weren't geared right, so I couldn't use it regularly. But I did get it to go about 20 or 30 feet around the side of the house. I can see me driving that baby to work now. And having the rubber belt snap halfway through the trip (because it wasn't geared right). I would have needed another pair of pulleys to get the ratio into the right range. My brother and I built an electric 'car' when we were kids, using modified plans from Popular Mechanics. The drive motor was an electric starter from an early 1960's Dodge and was powered by 4 used car batteries wired in parallel. The concept was probably a lot better than our execution, but it was fun while it lasted. -- Char Jackson |
#44
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"BIOS problem" solved
Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 00:16:09 -0500, Paul wrote: Gene E. Bloch wrote: OK, then there might be a problem with the old suggestion for an electric car that could go hundreds of miles on electricity, as long as the extension cord was long enough. We'll just have to try it. Here, let me get my car out of the garage. I have a 240km cord around here somewhere... I did actually build an electric car as a kid. It used a washing machine motor. The pulleys weren't geared right, so I couldn't use it regularly. But I did get it to go about 20 or 30 feet around the side of the house. I can see me driving that baby to work now. And having the rubber belt snap halfway through the trip (because it wasn't geared right). I would have needed another pair of pulleys to get the ratio into the right range. My brother and I built an electric 'car' when we were kids, using modified plans from Popular Mechanics. The drive motor was an electric starter from an early 1960's Dodge and was powered by 4 used car batteries wired in parallel. The concept was probably a lot better than our execution, but it was fun while it lasted. Sounds like you had a better junk yard than I did :-) Mine didn't involve nearly as much planning. It started with a go-kart type project. And then I spotted the washing machine motor... So there was no plan from day one to make it electric. Just an opportunity presented itself in the form of a surplus motor. We went through a fair number of washers at our house, and at its peak, there were three washers downstairs. Two wringer washers, and a washer with spin dry. Many people aren't familiar with those things. The wringer was the kind that could crush your fingers. The rollers up top, you put wet wash through them, and it "squashes" out the water for you. Funny thing is, we never had any finger crushing accidents at home. When these would rust out, that's where your surplus electric motor would come from. http://atthemanse.files.wordpress.co...ger-washer.jpg Paul |
#45
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"BIOS problem" solved
On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 21:22:57 +0000 (UTC), Jerry Peters wrote:
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Gene E. Bloch wrote: On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 00:16:09 -0500, Paul wrote: Gene E. Bloch wrote: OK, then there might be a problem with the old suggestion for an electric car that could go hundreds of miles on electricity, as long as the extension cord was long enough. We'll just have to try it. Here, let me get my car out of the garage. I have a 240km cord around here somewhere... Come on, Paul, one model of the Tesla has a 300 mi (almost 500 km) range and it doesn't even need an extension cord :-) With the heater on? I seem to remember a less than enthusiastic review of the Tesla, specifically the milage claims, where Tesla's response was something like the reviewer didn't follow instructions -- poor guy used the heater. That's cool... -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
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