O.T. Missing Folder/files

Robert in CA wrote:
In passing, the 8500 is getting harder to start. It doesn't
have the same kind of start button as the 780 and in it
takes me half a dozen tries before it connects. Once it
connect's it's fine. I try not to push too hard (maybe that's
the problem) otherwise I fear of damaging the power supply
if I do but I shouldn't have to press it down hard either. It
should boot immediately like the 780.

Also Macrium had an update but had an error 403 on both
the 780 and 8500:

https://postimg.cc/LntY6CLk

Thought/suggestions?

Robert


I can find three other reports of error 403, from May.24th .
Macrium uses a CDN (Content Distribution Network) for
this, and the other company has a problem. It usually takes
a few hours to fix.

*******

Regarding the top power button on the computer, Dell
doesn't have very good taste in switches. I have a Dell
here, the switch makes a "critching" noise, like it's about
to collapse.

It could be the switch, or it could be something on the
motherboard, or it could be the power supply. Of all those,
I'd guess the switch is at fault.

They have a sample here to look at. I can't really tell what
kind of switches those are, whether they're good ones or not.

https://www.newegg.com/p/1HD-0021-00...quicklink=true

The switch type is "Normally open" and only closes
when the button is pushed. The PSU is fed from a cleaned up
signal. You can see the cable assembly just has the "dumb bits"
on it, the switch. The switch handles only milliamp level
currents, so any switch would do in an emergency. The signals
on the cable are "logic level" signals.

+5VSB
|
/ 10K
/ |
+-X X--------+--- PWR# ----- (conditioning logic) -- PSON# on PSU
| and latched output
+----------------- GND

--cable-- --mobo---

Paul

Robert in CA wrote:
I tried it again and this I went into Explore and it gave me
the AppData. I was going through the files of 5f03gcl6 and
it shows Chrome folder. Can I delete that? I don't want Chrome
on my computers. I don't know how that got there unless its
part of Sea Monkey ?

https://postimg.cc/4mmxMXQS

https://postimg.cc/1nm9KSzM

https://postimg.cc/4Ypsky7B

https://postimg.cc/T5PgFBtJ

https://postimg.cc/Ny4ytp9J

https://postimg.cc/fV7y7BKz

https://postimg.cc/dD70NqBS

Robert

When you find the "Chrome", notice the path at the top of the
screen still says "Mozilla" "Seamonkey" ?

Chrome is a Google product, and it definitely is not part of
Seamonkey. The Google product will not be nested, or jammed,
into a Mozilla folder.

We can thank the mixing of "technical terms" with "Trademarks"
for this discovery. Chrome is a technical term.

User interface chrome: the borders and widgets that
frame the content part of a window

So that folder contains portions of windows decorations
or something, for Seamonkey.

There's nothing we can do about these poor naming choices
and confusion with Trademarked material.

That does not mean you have a copy of Google Chroms. And
besides, you know how to search with Agent Ransack, for
other related material. Is there a "Chrome.exe" on board ???
It needs an executable part.

Paul

I had another Macrium update on the 780 which I assumed
they fixed the problem but nothing happened when I opened
Macrium and the 8500 doesn't have any updates since the 403
error. So I assume once they fix it there will be another update
for both.

Regarding the power supply button, I agree and never have liked
it although it doesn't make any noise. It just seems to have a
problem connecting sometimes. I prefer the kind the 780 has. It's
like it's a solenoid button and connects instantly every time but I
would be very leery of opening up the 8500 to change a switch
and anyway I thought the switch is an integral part of the power
supply?

I did a search for Chrome.exe on Agent Ransack and found none
as you thought.

So exactly where are we? We wanted to uninstall Sea Monkey to
test the backspace key; If the backspace key still does not function
then we have to re-think what it could be because we've tested
everything else. If it's the problem, it resolves the backspace key
issue but then we have the Sea Monkey issue before we can move
forward to cloning. Correct?

Robert

Robert in CA wrote:
I had another Macrium update on the 780 which I assumed
they fixed the problem but nothing happened when I opened
Macrium and the 8500 doesn't have any updates since the 403
error. So I assume once they fix it there will be another update
for both.

Regarding the power supply button, I agree and never have liked
it although it doesn't make any noise. It just seems to have a
problem connecting sometimes. I prefer the kind the 780 has. It's
like it's a solenoid button and connects instantly every time but I
would be very leery of opening up the 8500 to change a switch
and anyway I thought the switch is an integral part of the power
supply?

I did a search for Chrome.exe on Agent Ransack and found none
as you thought.

So exactly where are we? We wanted to uninstall Sea Monkey to
test the backspace key; If the backspace key still does not function
then we have to re-think what it could be because we've tested
everything else. If it's the problem, it resolves the backspace key
issue but then we have the Sea Monkey issue before we can move
forward to cloning. Correct?

Robert


It's still not clear to me, whether your backspace key
only malfunctions when a browser is the foreground window,
or whether the backspace key is dead no matter when you
type it (like, in Notepad).

Firefox (and who knows, eventually Seamonkey), may have
this setting in "about:config". THis may have started
around October 2020.

media.hardwaremediakeys.enabled false

Chrome has a similar feature (but you don't care about this one)

chrome://flags

"Hardware media key handling" false

As far as I know, these are a kind of key-grabbing function.

Paul

The backspace key functions in Word/Notepad but does not function
if I go to eBay and look at an item then try to backspace or if I go to
Google, then Yahoo and try to backspace back to Google. It should
work and use to but doesn't now. Now I have to click the backspace
arrow to backspace. So part of the backspace works in Word but not
online.

We can check the about:config and hardware media for the keyboard settings
just tell me how but I still think we should test Sea Monkey if possible
because its not installed correctly on the 780 otherwise it would be in
Program and Features and we've tested everything else.

I'm still confused whether I can download the new version of Sea Monkey
now then we can uninstall it to test whether Sea Monkey is the problem or
should I uninstall it then download the new version? Or?

The 8500 again was difficult to start, so now this is really concerning me.
What if I can't get it to start up?!

Besides the backspace issue and the Sea Monkey issue I now have the
start button issue. If I were to replace it wouldn't I have to replace the
entire power supply? I do have the backup power supplies you helped me
buy but this is scary of even thinking of doing. If it's a single switch won't
I still have to remove the power supply to gain access?


Thoughts/suggestions?

Robert

Robert in CA wrote:
The backspace key functions in Word/Notepad but does not function
if I go to eBay and look at an item then try to backspace or if I go to
Google, then Yahoo and try to backspace back to Google. It should
work and use to but doesn't now. Now I have to click the backspace
arrow to backspace. So part of the backspace works in Word but not
online.

We can check the about:config and hardware media for the keyboard settings
just tell me how but I still think we should test Sea Monkey if possible
because its not installed correctly on the 780 otherwise it would be in
Program and Features and we've tested everything else.

I'm still confused whether I can download the new version of Sea Monkey
now then we can uninstall it to test whether Sea Monkey is the problem or
should I uninstall it then download the new version? Or?

The 8500 again was difficult to start, so now this is really concerning me.
What if I can't get it to start up?!

Besides the backspace issue and the Sea Monkey issue I now have the
start button issue. If I were to replace it wouldn't I have to replace the
entire power supply? I do have the backup power supplies you helped me
buy but this is scary of even thinking of doing. If it's a single switch won't
I still have to remove the power supply to gain access?


Thoughts/suggestions?

Robert

1) Steps for seamonkey.
Your version 2.53.5.1
Latest version 2.53.7.1

If you install 2.53.5.1 by double clicking, that may cause it to
register in Programs and Features. Since your two profile folders
are at 2.53.5.1, we have not changed anything, so backups of the
profile folders are not necessary.

You can try uninstalling it, using Helper.exe in the uninstall folder
in its Program Files folder. But double-clicking the installer for it,
should automatically remove the old one and install the same version
(2.53.5.1 over 2.53.5.1).

That does not test Seamonkey, it's to make Programs and Feature have
an entry.

*******

If for some reason, you wanted to install 2.53.7.1, you don't have to
do anything, but then you're stuck at that version. If you keep copies
of the two Profiles folders (as located by your Agent Ransack work), then
by using those folders, you can uninstall 2.53.7.1 and roll the folders
back to 2.53.5.1 before installing 2.53.5.1.

2) You can use the about:config in Firefox, to adjust the multimedia keys setting.
The article here, says there's a GUI for it as well. This must be a relatively
recent addition to it.

https://www.askvg.com/fix-multimedia...zilla-firefox/

The problem I'm having with this test, is I can see no evidence
the "backspace" key is part of the multimedia keyset.

next \
previous \__ Not all keyboards have these, and there's not much
pause / reason for Previous to be the "backspace" key.
play /
volume, press right \___ These keys are fairly common as multimedia keys
volume, press left /

Since the setting isn't worth much in any case, enabled or disabled,
it doesn't really matter if its enabled or disabled - except as a test
for restoring the backspace key. If you used "Spotify" it would be more
important, because the browser setting upsets the ability to control
"Spotify" when it does not have the keyboard focus.

I think it is worthwhile testing the Firefox setting, Firefox being the
only browser likely to be running at any one time.

Your Word/Notepad result, suggests it's something about the browser,
and if you had both Firefox and Seamonkey running at the same time,
this same setting in both of them could have an impact. While testing
"is it Firefox?", you should not be running Seamonkey until you've
collected your results. I don't know if Seamonkey even has this seting
yet. Chrome also has this setting, but you're not using that. The multiple
browsers only have an impact, when they're running in Task Manager.

Depending on version, you can either use the GUI or use about:config
for the setting, to test it.

3) Page 90 here, shows the Power button and LED assembly on the XPS 8500.

http://static.highspeedbackbone.net/...C%20Manual.pdf

The button appears similar to a keyboard key button, and looks
like a "keycap" of some sort goes onto it.

a) Check CR2032 battery reads +3V with respect to ground,
on the top surface. If the battery reads less than +2.3V,
it may be time to replace it. A few motherboards, failure to
switch on, is traceable to the battery being dead flat at 0V.

b) If the Power button was damaged, you can use any other
"Normally Open SPST" to replace it. The button does not latch
on, it only has to make Momentary Contact to start the computer.
In fact, holding the Power button down for four seconds, causes
the computer to switch off without doing a proper OS shutdown
(which is why it's not a good idea to be leaning on that Power
button while the system is running).

c) The motherboard could be having a problem driving PSON# over
the main power supply cable. The power supplies now all have
standard wiring, and examining the pinout should help you locate
PSON# if you needed to measure it and see the signal being
asserted. A reading of less than +0.7V means "turn ON PSU".
A value of close to +5V means "turn OFF PSU" and fans will be
stopped. If the computer sleeps, PSU will be OFF but +5VSB is
still powering the RAM sticks. The PSU makes +5VSB, without a
fan blowing, to cool the computer.

While it's fun to think replacing the cable assembly

https://c1.neweggimages.com/ProductI...01111magWn.jpg

will fix it, don't forget that the motherboard plays a part,
and the CMOS CR2032 battery should be checked, just in case
this is one of those motherboards sensitive to the battery state.

Tracing the wiring on the cable harness, will help you verify
the 2x5 connector pinout.

Paul

The profile folders decreased after I showed you the screen shots
you refer to and now they're back but with only (1) Sea Monkey,
weird.

I tried to double click the Sea Monkey profile and it only opened the Notepad
and gave the character string. Then I tried double clicking on the file name
and nothing happened. I checked Programs and Features and its still
not listed.

I then clicked uninstall on the file name and nothing happened. then I clicked
the uninstall.exe on the left and it gave me this:

https://postimg.cc/cgTB6Ps6

I didn't know how to proceed so I closed it. If this was to remove Sea
Monkey they sure have a frightening way of naming.

The only reason I asked about the new version of Sea Monkey was that
it's on the Sea Monkey site for downloads:

https://www.seamonkey-project.org/

Don't we usually update the newest version? Your confusing me with
rolling back of the folders since I only have the (1) Sea Monkey folder. It's
obvious that Sea Monkey did not install correctly and I only use Sea Monkey
for this site only so why is rolling back so important for this application?


I checked the settings on both computers and they're the same. They do not
have the 'Control media via keyboard'.

https://postimg.cc/0bFScDZt

I believe I replaced the battery in the 8500 at some point. The old battery says
CR2032 3v+ .

The power button isn't damaged it just isn't connecting as it should.

https://postimg.cc/WhgpcZTY

If its the motherboard then there's nothing I can do and there's no way for me to
verify or measure anything. I'm going to go out and buy a new battery if I can.

Thoughts/Suggestions,
Robert

I put a new CR2032 3V battery in the 8500
and now it doesn't boot at all. It has a black
screen that says

RTC is reset; Bios Setup default has been loaded.
Strike the F1 key to continue, F2 to run setup utility

I tried doing so but the F1 and F2 do not respond.
Nothing is responding on the 8500. I can't even get
Macrium up and as I said I have no backup drive so
I hope you can hep me get the 8500 back.

This is exactly what I was afraid of happening with
no hd backups. The only hd backups are Win 10

Please advise, also since the 780 has no card slot for the
camera Sandisk there no way for me to show you screenshots.
which makes this all the more complicated.

Robert

I figured out a way to show you screenshots.
Although a bit blurry this is what the 8500 screen
looks like now when logging on:

https://postimg.cc/N56Cf0SL

It says; RTC is reset; Bios Setup default has been loaded.
Strike the F1 key to continue, F2 to run setup utility

Neither key responds when I press them. Its like the
keyboard is dead.

I sure hope you can think of some way to bring back my 8500
with Win 7 Pro and if so we'll quickly test Sea Monkey and then
I want to clone the drives before anything else happens.

Thought/suggestions?
Robert

Robert in CA wrote:
I put a new CR2032 3V battery in the 8500
and now it doesn't boot at all. It has a black
screen that says

RTC is reset; Bios Setup default has been loaded.
Strike the F1 key to continue, F2 to run setup utility

I tried doing so but the F1 and F2 do not respond.
Nothing is responding on the 8500. I can't even get
Macrium up and as I said I have no backup drive so
I hope you can hep me get the 8500 back.

This is exactly what I was afraid of happening with
no hd backups. The only hd backups are Win 10

Please advise, also since the 780 has no card slot for the
camera Sandisk there no way for me to show you screenshots.
which makes this all the more complicated.

Robert

You changed the battery with the PC unplugged ?

On your keyboard, does it happen to be Fn-F2 or just F2 ?
On the 4000, I think I see an "FLock" key. Make sure that
you're generating an F2 with the keyboard.

Since you likely have model 4000 on both the 780 and 8500, you
can test keyboard response on either. This tool "osk.exe"
is not ideal, but when you type on the keyboard, the utility
causes the corresponding keys to light up. I have seen older,
better utilities than this, on places like the Sparc at work.
Good utilities, the keyboard layout is a spitting image of
the real keyboard. This one is not.

https://www.technipages.com/wp-conte...indows-OSK.png

You might need "Load Setup Defaults" once you get
in there. Then, there would be a boot order to set
(optical drive first, hard drive second, you only
have the one hard drive so there is no sub-ordering
to do of the drives). The default boot order might not
need any editing at all on your part, but you should
at least examine it, so you can understand any symptoms
that happen later on.

If the PC was powered when you changed the battery,
then it's important to note whether you dropped either
battery onto a power conductor or not. With the power
drained from the machine, it's a bit safer to work in there.
Always turn off power when working inside, because of the
presence of Standby 5VSB power in there.

The CMOS CR2032 socket is relatively safe. There is a 1Kohm
resistor in series with the battery, as well as a diode that
only conducts one way. It would still be ESD sensitive
however, and a person should bring themselves to chassis
potential before doing the final steps.

Since you have a brand new keyboard as a backup, perhaps
it's easier to get an F2 out of it ? You can plug two or
more keyboards into a PC at the same time (my other PC has
been running two keyboards for *months*). Use the USB ports
with the black insert, rather than the blue (USB3) ports.
The Dell BIOS is full of surprises, so using the USB2 port
is probably a better choice.

The 8500 is actually a UEFI BIOS, but with the UEFI issues
"tamed". It does not require you to know too much about
the UEFI thing. There is one UEFI setting, and one of the
choices there is "Legacy" and that's a good choice for
the Windows 7 installation. That's what I use here, is
Legacy with my Windows 7.

Since you managed to get the PC to start and start
querying for the F2, that's a *good* sign. And
yes, I've had the odd occasion where the keyboard input
is being ignored. I have PS/2 and USB, and I think the
USB one helped me in that case.

Paul

Robert in CA wrote:


The profile folders decreased after I showed you the screen shots
you refer to and now they're back but with only (1) Sea Monkey,
weird.

I tried to double click the Sea Monkey profile and it only opened the Notepad
and gave the character string. Then I tried double clicking on the file name
and nothing happened. I checked Programs and Features and its still
not listed.

I then clicked uninstall on the file name and nothing happened. then I clicked
the uninstall.exe on the left and it gave me this:

https://postimg.cc/cgTB6Ps6

In your picture, two lines in Agent Ransack have text in them.
Only *one* of the lines should have text, the "filename" one.


I didn't know how to proceed so I closed it. If this was to remove Sea
Monkey they sure have a frightening way of naming.

Seamonkey uses Helper.exe and once you correct your Agent Ransack and
rerun the search, the proper folders will return.


The only reason I asked about the new version of Sea Monkey was that
it's on the Sea Monkey site for downloads:

https://www.seamonkey-project.org/

Don't we usually update the newest version?

Sure, if you want to. You were telling me earlier about reading something
(which was probably the help page on the site) which scared you. I was
giving you a recipe so that you could "back out" in an emergency!!!
That's what I was doing. It was supposed to be "easier than running
yet another backup". Oh, well.

There's nothing wrong with running the 7 one, as long as you know
there are no outstanding issues with it.

Your confusing me with
rolling back of the folders since I only have the (1) Sea Monkey folder. It's
obvious that Sea Monkey did not install correctly and I only use Sea Monkey
for this site only so why is rolling back so important for this application?

Granted, Seamonkey has done something weird. Reinstalling the "5" version
would refresh Programs and Features. Maybe it there was some mixup
regarding 32 bit and 64 bit versions, might something have happened. But
if that were the case, there'd be two entries perhaps, rather than
zero entries. The zero entries isn't particular confidence-inspiring.

But reinstalling the "5" version you have on disk already, no safety
precautions are required. You can verify using the "about:" in Seamonkey,
you're running the "5" version. Then, quit Seamonkey, then reinstall "5"
and it should use Helper.exe itself to remove the old "5" and install
the new "5".


I checked the settings on both computers and they're the same. They do not
have the 'Control media via keyboard'.

https://postimg.cc/0bFScDZt

I gave you instructions earlier for accessing the setting
using "about:config" which is the configuration editor.

1) Enter "about:config" in the URL bar.
2) Follow the safety prompt.
3) In the search bar, look for "media.hardwaremediakeys.enabled"
A value of True makes in interfere. A value of False stops
the interference. Double-clicking the line toggles the Boolean
value on the line. Visually verify it is True, double click, then
it will be False as desired.
4) Close the Configuration Editor window.
5) Shut down and restart Firefox, to be sure.


I believe I replaced the battery in the 8500 at some point. The old battery says
CR2032 3v+ .

The power button isn't damaged it just isn't connecting as it should.

https://postimg.cc/WhgpcZTY

If its the motherboard then there's nothing I can do and there's no way for me to
verify or measure anything. I'm going to go out and buy a new battery if I can.

Thoughts/Suggestions,
Robert

It's true, that it is a nuisance to debug these "switch don't work"
problems. My typing machine, ignores the first button press sometimes,
and at this point, the problem is not bad enough for me to pay it
any mind. The switch on the twenty year old casing, is the same
kind as on your 8500 :-). It's a plunger style with keyboard-like
dynamics. I'm pretty sure it's the switch, but it's just not worth
taking apart (there are a lot of loose wires inside my PC, unlike
yours). I could run with my backup machine (as the monitor and
keyboard for the backup are right next to me). But I need something
working for doctors (video) appointments, so I can't get too carried away.

Paul

the F lock did and I'm connected again however I can't load any pages
because it says my computer clock is wrong. I reset it manually but it
still ha the message whenever I try to load a page.



Robert

I adjusted the clocks and they seem fine now. However,
will I have a problem the next time I log on ?

Should we test Sea Monkey now and should I have
clicked next and proceeded after seeing this:

https://postimg.cc/1fZpvrtY


If Sea Monkey isn't the problem of the backspace key,
then we have another ball game because we've tested
everything else but I don't think it should hold up cloning
the hd's with Win 7 Pro. Right now I have zero Win 7 Pro
hd backups.

When changing the battery, I noticed it does have a switch
and I think we should think about getting the switch you
showed me , just in case, unless you have another in mind.
I can order it tomorrow.

Thoughts/suggestions?
Robert

Robert in CA wrote:
the F lock did and I'm connected again however I can't load any pages
because it says my computer clock is wrong. I reset it manually but it
still ha the message whenever I try to load a page.

Robert

Windows 7:

Control Panels : Date and Time : Internet Time :
Change Settings : Synchronize with...

Server: time.windows.com Update now

There is also a button for Change Time Zone,
but you would have set that just after the
OS installation was completed. (Or, after
taking delivery of the computer.)

You make sure the TZ is correct first, then
update the time, then marvel at the correctness.

To check for deviation, try in a browser:

https://www.time.gov

My clock is currently off by -0.007 seconds.
Just by chance :-) It's usually off by 2/10ths of a second.

Paul

Robert in CA wrote:
I adjusted the clocks and they seem fine now. However,
will I have a problem the next time I log on ?

Should we test Sea Monkey now and should I have
clicked next and proceeded after seeing this:

https://postimg.cc/1fZpvrtY


If Sea Monkey isn't the problem of the backspace key,
then we have another ball game because we've tested
everything else but I don't think it should hold up cloning
the hd's with Win 7 Pro. Right now I have zero Win 7 Pro
hd backups.

When changing the battery, I noticed it does have a switch
and I think we should think about getting the switch you
showed me , just in case, unless you have another in mind.
I can order it tomorrow.

Thoughts/suggestions?
Robert

I would only order the switch if:

1) The price is right.
2) The assembly looks the same as the
existing one.

It's nice to maintain the machine in minty condition,
but it's your money.

I would look inside the casing and make sure the
2x5 connector is fully seated. Just in case it's
about to fall off or something.

If the cable assembly doesn't come with the black frame
on the end, you're to recycle the existing piece of
black plastic.

If a switch fails to work on a case here, I just
bodge up a cable and switch and it
hangs out the front of the machine somewhere.

Since the switch uses logic level signaling, there's
no electrocution potential. The switch does not
"directly" control the PSU - there is some junk
that gets in the way. And sometimes it's the silicon
junk that fails, and not the switch. It takes some
effort to debug what has happened (check logic levels
on PSON# on the main power cable 24 pin, with a meter).
At one time, changing out the silicon driver chip was easy,
but probably not today. It used to be driven by a jelly
bean, whereas now, one of the larger chips drives it.

As far as debug goes, on PSU cable issues, it helps to
have a 24 pin extender for the PSU cable, so you can
cut cables if necessary to do measurements, but without
cutting the PSU cabling itself.

You can cut and chop on one of these, if you need to
make current measurements on PSON# say. I don't think
too many home users keep one of these.

https://www.startech.com/en-us/cables/atx24powext

Paul