O.T. Missing Folder/files

We were 90% successful in that it cloned successfully but it says
it's not genuine. Does that matter? I thought I had taken pics of the
message but I can't seem to find them? At any rate, I now have the
2TB #4hd in the computer and boxed the 1TB original hd.

https://postimg.cc/1866w3cB

https://postimg.cc/V0qQXMv1

https://postimg.cc/RNh2MjQ4

https://postimg.cc/2bmhGN8W

https://postimg.cc/NytKq7qq

https://postimg.cc/rd7Ywmjk

After these the screen went black and gave the message of Windows
Not Genuine, and something 7601 like a run number ?

Robert

btw I got out of the black screen by pressing the ESC key

Robert

So #4hd (presently in the 8500) is the same as #3 (boxed) because
they both finished with Invalid Windows OS messages because I lost
my Activation. Nevertheless it cloned successfully. Does that matter
if it's not authentic especially since Microsoft stopped supporting
Win7? Will it affect anything?

I also remembered to resize the partition this time around to take up the
unused space. However I need to go back to #3hd and do the same.
Can I do that if I put it in the external case or does it have to be inside the
8500?

I also have to do the same thing to #1 and #2 for the 780.

Robert

Robert in CA wrote:
So #4hd (presently in the 8500) is the same as #3 (boxed) because
they both finished with Invalid Windows OS messages because I lost
my Activation. Nevertheless it cloned successfully. Does that matter
if it's not authentic especially since Microsoft stopped supporting
Win7? Will it affect anything?

I also remembered to resize the partition this time around to take up the
unused space. However I need to go back to #3hd and do the same.
Can I do that if I put it in the external case or does it have to be inside the
8500?

I also have to do the same thing to #1 and #2 for the 780.

Robert

You should be able to extend a partition while in the external case.
They're treated as "fixed media", you can have four partitions
on an MSDOS partitioned disk and so on. It should work.

*******

I wish I had a good theory for why it's Not Genuine.

Copying all the files should be "good enough". Doing the
clone while using the Macrium CD, would prevent any AV
program from upsetting the clone operation.

And that leaves the far-fetched RAID metadata theory.
Where, perhaps, if the disks had the same RAID metadata
(hidden, up near the end of the disk), this transfer
would have worked.

If I thought the Microsoft Support would tell you the
root cause, I wouldn't be so concerned about solving it.

This would be a test sequence for Not Genuine.

8500 1TB == First 2TB == Second 2TB
Genuine Clone Clone
Not genuine Genuine
Microsoft fixes it

What that would tell us, is the problem is transient,
but as long as we start with the middle item, we
can make clones.

Now, if we had this result instead...

8500 1TB == First 2TB == Second 2TB
Genuine Clone Clone
Not genuine Not Genuine
Microsoft fixes it

then the root cause would not be resolved, and
we could never clone and expect a good result.

Paul

Ok but How do I resize the partitions without cloning?
Do I go into Disk Mangement on the external hd?

Right-click the partition that you want to resize and
choose Move/Resize. Drag the slider towards the left or
right to resize the partition size. Click Apply to save the
change.

Is this correct?

I also don't understand how we got the Not Genuine/Invalid
Windows OS on the 8500 each time we cloned yet this didn't
happen on the 780 because it was refurbished! In essence,
the 8500 is now more like the 780 OS because I lost my Activation.

I realize we can make clone with #4 presently in the 8500 but
I'm not understanding your diagram and analysis but that all if
we had Microsoft support correct? Which we don't.

From what I see we have the bottom scenario were both #3 and
#4 are not genuine because they both had the message at the
end of Invalid Windows OS and Not Genuine. The root cause isn't
solved.

So where do we go from here ? I have the OS back 99% with the
exception of the backspace key and the pop-up's when I attach a
external hd but I now realize I can check disk management to see
if they truly are connected.

If you agree, I think I should re-size #3 partition and the 780's #1,
#2 hd's, then do a System Restore point, then do Mrimgs for both
computers.

Robert

Robert in CA wrote:
Ok but How do I resize the partitions without cloning?
Do I go into Disk Mangement on the external hd?

Right-click the partition that you want to resize and
choose Move/Resize. Drag the slider towards the left or
right to resize the partition size. Click Apply to save the
change.

Is this correct?

That sounds like the idea. Disk Management can make the partition larger.
It's the case of making it smaller, that has some limitations.
But larger is OK, until it hits the end of the disk of course.


I also don't understand how we got the Not Genuine/Invalid
Windows OS on the 8500 each time we cloned yet this didn't
happen on the 780 because it was refurbished! In essence,
the 8500 is now more like the 780 OS because I lost my Activation.

If all your disks failed to be Genuine, I'd be concerned.

It's only the cloned disk which is Not Genuine, which implies
something we're doing, is ****ing off the Genuine check.

You haven't really "lost" anything, yet, as near as I can
determine.

The reason I'm tip-toeing around the issue, is I want
to fix it. I *don't* want you phoning Microsoft a dozen
times to fix it, because we could not figure out the root
cause.

If I thought the support was on the ball enough, I'd tell
you to let them root cause it. But as far as I know, their
"normal" response is to just cut an activation code and
send you on your way. Because that takes less support time.

But in principle, they can also be asked to use their
three levels of skilled help, to find out what needs
to change in what you're doing, to keep the thing activated.

I've never lost activation yet, by doing this stuff. But
on the other hand, I try not to have RAID metadata on
disks either. Sometimes, you don't have any choice in the
matter, but at least you can do your part by not using the
RAID driver for RAID. (The Intel RST driver, supports
RAID and AHCI, and it does that, so that RAID ready disks
can be moved from AHCI operation to RAID Mirror, as an
example.) It would be Dell, shipping your 1TB disk as RAID-ready,
that may lay the groundwork for difficulty cloning.

The other possibility, is malware. I found a thread today,
where a skilled operator (Noel DP), ministered to someones
disk that was Not Genuine. He was finding a lot of
permissions errors. He crafted commands to return a
pile of such errors back to "normal", but at some point
he had to give up because there were so many things to fix.
The person he was helping, did a Repair Install, and that
seemed to tip things upright again.

We can do a Repair Install on the 780, because it's a refurb,
and the refurb DVD is really really close to a retail DVD.

The 8500 is different. The closest thing to a Repair Install,
would involve getting the Repair My Computer to work :-/
And you can see how that's going.

One of the OS releases, had an actual tool you could run
to put back baseline permissions, and that would be an
excellent thing if it existed today. But it doesn't.
I think WinXP was the last OS with a tool for that.


I realize we can make clone with #4 presently in the 8500 but
I'm not understanding your diagram and analysis but that all if
we had Microsoft support correct? Which we don't.

It's just possible, that issuing (as Administrator)

slui

will fix the Not Genuine disk. It was my understanding, that
SLIC (BIOS) activated OSes, don't have exactly the same logic
as Retail Installed OSes, and the activation is "easier".

My concern is, how many times will "slui" work (with respect to
a single key). What if "slui" stops working ?

I have no way to estimate whether it'll work, or for how
many occurrences in a row.


From what I see we have the bottom scenario were both #3 and
#4 are not genuine because they both had the message at the
end of Invalid Windows OS and Not Genuine. The root cause isn't
solved.

So where do we go from here ? I have the OS back 99% with the
exception of the backspace key and the pop-up's when I attach a
external hd but I now realize I can check disk management to see
if they truly are connected.

If you agree, I think I should re-size #3 partition and the 780's #1,
#2 hd's, then do a System Restore point, then do Mrimgs for both
computers.

Robert

Do the "slui" experiment if you get a moment to try it
on a Not Genuine disk.

And by all means, carry on with your resize operation. That
should not take long. Making partitions smaller, takes time,
because the defrag thing moves the files out of the way.
Making partitions larger, is instantaneous.

There are lots of things I'm willing to leave as festering
sores on computers. Activation isn't one of them.

It's because the topic is not documented, that we *must*
learn as much as possible about it. The end-users have to
make the manual, because no one else will.

Paul

You'll never believe it! I put the #3hd back in the external case to
resize the partition and when I plugged it in I had the drive pop-ups
again!

https://postimg.cc/B89HRMyf

https://postimg.cc/mzTMghBd

I haven't done any partition work yet because I wanted you to see this.

Robert

Robert in CA wrote:
You'll never believe it! I put the #3hd back in the external case to
resize the partition and when I plugged it in I had the drive pop-ups
again!

https://postimg.cc/B89HRMyf

https://postimg.cc/mzTMghBd

I haven't done any partition work yet because I wanted you to see this.

Robert


I just "X" the window and ignore that.

If there was actually autoplay materials on there,
I'd be very suspicious of how they got there.

There's no reason to be selecting options from there.

*******

You can select options via the Control Panel.

https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/e...movable-drives

There's a tick mark at the top, to disable all of it.

It's where the mouse pointer is located, in this picture.

https://supportkb.dell.com/img/ka02R...U_en_US_4.jpeg

I spotted the tick box, after looking at this site.

https://www.computerperformance.co.u...ws-7/autoplay/

The information is contained in registry key "nodrivetypeautorun".
The number stored in there, is the logical OR of bitfields, with
a bit assigned for each function/type. Not that this is
important or anything. If you wanted to return the setting
to its previous value, I supposed you could make a note in
your notes file. But I don't particularly give a rats ass
about this function, whether on or off. It's just a nuisance.

Paul

Whiskey is for drinking and water is for fighting over - Mark Twain.

I tried to partition the drive but it doesn't have the
correct command to do so or I'm not doing it right.

https://postimg.cc/62SM2dqW

https://postimg.cc/JHkPbGHb

https://postimg.cc/KRt0j32b

https://postimg.cc/3k7nvr8v

So how do I change the partitions?


You want me to disable ALL the autoplay? My external
hd with Mrimgs connects with autoplay and so does my
Sandisk and that would disable both of them!

I don't want to make changes that affect everything else
unless were sure what were doing first.

I'm disconnecting the external hd. for now.

Robert

On Thu, 10 Jun 2021 23:09:19 -0400, wrote:

Whiskey is for drinking and water is for fighting over - Mark Twain.

Sorry wrong group

I thought you would be happy it connected with autoplay because
that's what we have been trying to achieve all this time to get the
8500 back to normal.

Isn't it just possible it's as valid as the message we got from out of
the blue saying Invalid Windows OS and Not Genuine.

Robert

Robert in CA wrote:
I tried to partition the drive but it doesn't have the
correct command to do so or I'm not doing it right.

https://postimg.cc/62SM2dqW

https://postimg.cc/JHkPbGHb

https://postimg.cc/KRt0j32b

https://postimg.cc/3k7nvr8v

So how do I change the partitions?

You just click "Next", as of the fourth picture.

The dialog shows "maximum available space" and
you're taking up all of it. According to the
dialog.

And yes, I find this style confusing. There are other
industry-standard ways of doing it.


You want me to disable ALL the autoplay? My external
hd with Mrimgs connects with autoplay and so does my
Sandisk and that would disable both of them!

I don't want to make changes that affect everything else
unless were sure what were doing first.

I'm disconnecting the external hd. for now.

Robert

If the presentation of AutoPlay annoys you, I'm telling
you that you can turn it off. I don't even pay attention
to the options in there. I don't want any automation
executing unknown stuff without at least some
examination of what it's doing. And that mechanism,
is a favorite of malware on things like Patriot sticks.

I tend to check Disk Management if I have any questions
about what mounted or failed to mount. Stuff fails
here all the time. Things show up without drive letters
and then I have to add drive letters. And sometimes it
says it can't deal with whatever it found on the volume.
That's when I use TestDisk for a look (as it can display
the files in an NTFS volume, even when the NTFS is not
mounted by the OS).

https://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk

It takes a long time, to become comfortable with the interface.
Pressing "control-c" to stop the program, ensures nothing
naughty happens if you "get into a bind". I used that a lot
at first, when burrowing down some menu choice and "not
liking where we were going". But it's a good tool, when
you need to look inside something. It's how I look in
the ESP on GPT OS disks (a part of the boot sequence).

https://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk_Step_By_Step

Paul

I re-connected the #3hd and again autoplay worked.
I went into Disk Management via Admin Account
and was successful in changing the partition.


https://postimg.cc/9rZDrSB4

https://postimg.cc/LntsHPHL

https://postimg.cc/ZWjKNhvq

https://postimg.cc/LgdHS9wx

https://postimg.cc/qzxkfdLG

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression of autoplay, I like it
that's what I mean when I say back to'normal'. If we
could somehow get the backspace key back it would be
perfect.
In passing, just what am I loosing by not having it not Genuine?
since they already stopped supporting it and I have every update
since. We have the original 1TB, #3hd is cloned exactly like this
(the one that we just changed the partition) and #4 is in the 8500
and all are operational.

If you agree, I think at this point it's a good idea to create a
System Restore Point and do Mrimgs for both computers so
we don't loose all the hard work we've done and gives us a way to
recover. So I will make a System Restore now and then start the
Mrimgs.

I thought Patriot stick were OK to use?

Hmmmmmmmm the TestDisk sounds impressive but that's
really getting into the nitty gritty with the step by step.

Robert

Robert in CA wrote:
I re-connected the #3hd and again autoplay worked.
I went into Disk Management via Admin Account
and was successful in changing the partition.


https://postimg.cc/9rZDrSB4

https://postimg.cc/LntsHPHL

https://postimg.cc/ZWjKNhvq

https://postimg.cc/LgdHS9wx

https://postimg.cc/qzxkfdLG

Looks good.

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression of autoplay, I like it
that's what I mean when I say back to'normal'. If we
could somehow get the backspace key back it would be
perfect.
In passing, just what am I loosing by not having it not Genuine?
since they already stopped supporting it and I have every update since.

"Not Genuine" is not a benign condition. In some cases it
stops working. Time constants a freezes instantly,
72 hour warning, 30 day warning.

We have the original 1TB, #3hd is cloned exactly like this
(the one that we just changed the partition) and #4 is in the 8500
and all are operational.

If you agree, I think at this point it's a good idea to create a
System Restore Point and do Mrimgs for both computers so
we don't loose all the hard work we've done and gives us a way to
recover. So I will make a System Restore now and then start the
Mrimgs.

For the one that's Not Genuine, you can still try "slui" without
any number on the end.

Not Genuine applies to the disk, not the machine. If I owned
a half dozen disks, one could be Not Genuine, the others Genuine,
and it should not "spread" from one to another.

When I used to move Win2K from one machine to another, sometimes
I'd screw up and the Win2K would freeze on me. I'd just clone it
again, and be more careful the next time, as to what I was doing.
It was important to use the same disk driver on the two machines,
back in the day (you could move the disk, if both machines had
an Intel Southbridge).


I thought Patriot stick were OK to use?

It's not the fault of the stick. It's that malwares have certain
bad habits. If you have a malware on a machine, then you plug
in the Patriot, it writes an autorun.inf onto the stick, plus
deposits a malware EXE. Then when the Patriot is pulled out
of the XPS 8500 USB port and plugged into the 780 USB port,
the 780 becomes infected.

That's what is bad about autorun/autoplay. There is an attack
vector there, and the user has to be careful not to let
stuff into the machine.

I had someone at work do something like that. He brought
infected floppy diskettes to work. The first time, I had
to go around the department and disinfect the equipment.
Then, a few days later, damn if he doesn't do the same thing
again. I could have slugged him. Once it gets on one
machine, every time someone would insert a floppy, malware
would get on it, then they'd plug it in another machine...
and so on. Then I'd have to go around and remove the malware
(which at the time, was pretty simple, because of an
excellent free program for the purpose). If only cleanup
was that simple today!


Hmmmmmmmm the TestDisk sounds impressive but that's
really getting into the nitty gritty with the step by step.

Robert

I wanted to show you the interface the program uses.
Just to give you some idea what you would be facing
if trying the program out. But the ability to peer
into partitions that won't mount, is very handy.

Paul