Bluetooth Mouse lag - Sometimes

If I use my Windows PC all day long I’ll experience a mouse lag for a few
seconds every once in a while. It’s as if the processor is slowed down or
something. Movement on the physical mouse isn’t updating on the pointer on
screen. If I switch to the trackpad that works. If I use a non-bluetooth
mouse it never happens. It only happens when I use the bluetooth mouse and it
takes a while. After a couple hours of use it just happens and then returns
to normal. It feels like radio interference. I’m moving the mouse around
and all is fluid and normal, then becomes choppy and non-responsive, after 5
or 6 seconds it returns to normal.

Any words of wisdom on this?

--
Peter Kozlov

In article
l-
september.org, gn says...
Any words of wisdom on this?

I have seen the same behavior. In my case it is caused by
activity on a USB3-connected disk. If the disk is attached
but idle there is no interference. But Windows cannot
leave well enough alone apparently, and when I see the
light on the disk flickering I can expect the mouse
operation to get "choppy" for a few seconds.

Peter Kozlov wrote:

I’ll experience a mouse lag for a few
seconds every once in a while. If I use a non-bluetooth
mouse it never happens.

Bluetooth mice involve several layers, bluetooth radio driver, bluetooth
stack, usermode mouse driver, HCI etc, which makes it more likely to get
lagged when the CPU is busy

On May 28, 2018, Andy Burns wrote
(in article ):

Peter Kozlov wrote:

I’ll experience a mouse lag for a few
seconds every once in a while. If I use a non-bluetooth
mouse it never happens.

Bluetooth mice involve several layers, bluetooth radio driver, bluetooth
stack, usermode mouse driver, HCI etc, which makes it more likely to get
lagged when the CPU is busy

Hopefully they keep improving it.

--
Peter Kozlov

In article , Andy Burns
wrote:


I¹ll experience a mouse lag for a few
seconds every once in a while. If I use a non-bluetooth
mouse it never happens.

Bluetooth mice involve several layers, bluetooth radio driver, bluetooth
stack, usermode mouse driver, HCI etc, which makes it more likely to get
lagged when the CPU is busy

bluetooth is not affected by cpu load and there is no noticeable
latency anyway.

as mentioned elsewhere, the interference is most likely usb3.

On Mon, 28 May 2018 06:50:39 -0700, Peter Kozlov
wrote:

If I use my Windows PC all day long I’ll experience a mouse lag for a few
seconds every once in a while. It’s as if the processor is slowed down or
something. Movement on the physical mouse isn’t updating on the pointer on
screen. If I switch to the trackpad that works. If I use a non-bluetooth
mouse it never happens. It only happens when I use the bluetooth mouse and it
takes a while. After a couple hours of use it just happens and then returns
to normal. It feels like radio interference. I’m moving the mouse around
and all is fluid and normal, then becomes choppy and non-responsive, after 5
or 6 seconds it returns to normal.

Any words of wisdom on this?

Try a more recent driver.

On Mon, 28 May 2018 11:45:47 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Andy Burns
wrote:


I¹ll experience a mouse lag for a few
seconds every once in a while. If I use a non-bluetooth
mouse it never happens.

Bluetooth mice involve several layers, bluetooth radio driver, bluetooth
stack, usermode mouse driver, HCI etc, which makes it more likely to get
lagged when the CPU is busy

bluetooth is not affected by cpu load and there is no noticeable
latency anyway.

as mentioned elsewhere, the interference is most likely usb3.

I suggested a more recent driver but I did so because I had similar
issues until I used a program to find me the latest driver for my
hardware. This only happened on my old i3 laptop though.

Peter Kozlov wrote:

If I use my Windows PC all day long I’ll experience a mouse lag for a few
seconds every once in a while.

Try this:

http://www.gabesvirtualworld.com/blu...in-windows-10/

Jason wrote:

In my case it is caused by activity on a USB3-connected disk. If the
disk is attached but idle there is no interference. But Windows
cannot leave well enough alone apparently, and when I see the light
on the disk flickering I can expect the mouse operation to get
"choppy" for a few seconds.

Alas, Bluetooth, USB, wi-fi (low-band) routers (especially those with
USB ports for NAS hosts), cordless phones, microwave ovens, baby
monitors, and several other devices all share the /unlicensed/ 2.4 GHz
frequency (if licensing were required then every user would have to get
one before they could use these devices). Since you narrowed down the
Bluetooth interference to when the USB3 drive is active, have you tried
using a better USB cable, especially a shielded USB cable? In the OP's
case, it is likely the USB cable is attached to the mouse, so no way to
change to a better cable for the mouse and are stuck with a manufacturer
who shaved a few cents by using unshielded USB cable (which is typical).
However, in your case, you could change to a shielded USB cable to the
external USB-attached drive. A metal-cased USB drive would also shield
the device but not a plastic-cased one (unless they used foil on the
inside). Yep, sometimes a tin-foil hat is appropriate (although better
at much higher frequencies is copper alloy 770 aka nickel silver aka
German silver, as is aluminum as long as one piece is used due to
oxidation).

USB3.x spreads the RFI from near zero to about 4.2 GHz depending on the
data rate at the time. This will usually not impact a strong wi-fi
transmission but can and often will interfere with Bluetooth along with
weak wi-fi. Few users have their wi-fi router right next to the wi-fi
NIC in their computer so there is signal attenuation (some routers will
warn that enabling their USB port can impact wi-fi performance), and
Bluetooth is already a weak signalling technology.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us...nce-paper.html
(there is a downoad link to the PDF whitepaper)

Does your computer use plastic or metal side panels? Unless foiled on
the inside with metal contact when in place, plastic won't shield
against RF. However, since both transceiver modules are within the
case, it could also be a problem of poor design in either regarding
their own shielding. Here's an example where the internal USB
controller needed more shielding than the manufacturer provided to
eliminate Bluetooth-USB interference:

https://blog.macsales.com/15990-shie...with-bluetooth

The OP and you never stated if they are using a mobile computer (laptop,
netbook, tablet) or a stationary desktop. With a desktop, just use
wired mice and keyboards as they aren't moving around. Yeah, the mouse
moves around but within the confines of a few inches, so just make sure
its cable is unfettered from mouse to the back of the desk to eliminate
any tension from bending (some mice have very thin cables to improve
flexibility at the loss of longevity). The more the mouse cable flexes,
the sooner it will break its stranded wires. If you just must have a
wireless mouse, use an RF (27 MHz) one - but make sure no one else
within 50 feet is also using one (RF cross-talk). Although range is
supposed to be only about 6 feet, we had a workstation where the mouse
cursor would dance across the screen because someone up one floor and a
couple cublicles over also has an RF mouse. If you get a 2.4 GHz
wireless mouse, well, you're back into the contention frequency with all
the other wireless and USB devices. There are still some IR (infrared)
mice available for sale but you must have a direct line-of-sight between
mouse and transceiver dongle. Also remember that a wireless mouse is
heavier (due to the batteries) than a wired one - as long as the
manufacturer doesn't lie about the heft of the mouse by gluing a thick
heavy washer inside - and could die out just at that point in a video
game without a save function where you'll die if the mouse doesn't
respond or is slow or jerk at that moment forcing to restart the entire
level/map.

In article , VanguardLH
wrote:


In my case it is caused by activity on a USB3-connected disk. If the
disk is attached but idle there is no interference. But Windows
cannot leave well enough alone apparently, and when I see the light
on the disk flickering I can expect the mouse operation to get
"choppy" for a few seconds.

Alas, Bluetooth, USB, wi-fi (low-band) routers (especially those with
USB ports for NAS hosts), cordless phones, microwave ovens, baby
monitors, and several other devices all share the /unlicensed/ 2.4 GHz
frequency (if licensing were required then every user would have to get
one before they could use these devices).

it's normally not a problem.

Since you narrowed down the
Bluetooth interference to when the USB3 drive is active, have you tried
using a better USB cable, especially a shielded USB cable?

usb cables are shielded.

In the OP's
case, it is likely the USB cable is attached to the mouse,

nope, since the op said it only happens with a bluetooth mouse:

In article
l-september.org, Peter
Kozlov wrote:
...It only happens when I use the bluetooth mouse and it
takes a while...

....

There are still some IR (infrared)
mice available for sale but you must have a direct line-of-sight between
mouse and transceiver dongle.

such as?

that is such an incredibly stupid idea since line of sight to the
dongle precludes using it in just about every scenario.

Also remember that a wireless mouse is
heavier (due to the batteries) than a wired one

not necessarily, and if it is, not by any significant amount.
in other words, the weight of a mouse does not matter.

nospam wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Alas, Bluetooth, USB, wi-fi (low-band) routers (especially those with
USB ports for NAS hosts), cordless phones, microwave ovens, baby
monitors, and several other devices all share the /unlicensed/ 2.4 GHz
frequency (if licensing were required then every user would have to get
one before they could use these devices).

it's normally not a problem.

Oh yes, this is our nospam god. Despite all the evidence to the
contrary, what nospam declares must be how it is.

Since you narrowed down the Bluetooth interference to when the USB3
drive is active, have you tried using a better USB cable, especially
a shielded USB cable?

usb cables are shielded.

For USB 1 and 2, shielding is not mandated by the specification. They
relied on differential signalling with twisted pairs under the
assumption that RFI was equally induced into both wires, along with
relying on low-voltage and current. USB 3 has some shielding mentioned
in its specification. Super-thin USB cables are that way because of the
lack of both shielding of each twisted pair and a braid shield around
the bundle.

http://www.hardwarebook.info/Univers...USB)#Shielding

Notice there are gauge specs (both the same) for shield and *unshielded*
USB cables. Oh, but according to nospam, thou shalt always shield
despite not mandated to be compliant.

http://www.questtechnologyintl.com/p...4#.V_tfI8nLweA

Yep, that's an /unshielded/ USB cable and they say so. Most USB makers
don't tell you, or they only tell you if they are shielded. You might
*assume* if they state full- or high- or super-speed support.

In USB specifications, shielding is spec'ed for full- and high-speed but
NOT for low-speed (USB 1.0 @ 1.5 Mbps). Since USB has been in use for
awhile, could be someone had an old USB 1.0 cable laying around that is
NOT shielded.

The USB 2.0 specification says:

The USB can operate at three speeds. High-speed (480 Mb/s) and
full-speed (12 Mb/s) require the use of a shielded cable with two
power conductors and twisted pair signal conductors. Low-speed (1.5
Mb/s) recommends, but does not require the use of a cable with twisted
pair signal conductors.

Shielding is not mandated, nor even twisted pairs, for low-speed.

The USB 2.0 spec mentions the connector *housing* is supposed to be
shielded; however, I've seen open frames where there is metal to hold
the connector but a missing backplate (aka backshield). Also, that the
port is shielded (wholly or partially) does not mandate the cable must
be shielded.

https://www.screenfix.ie/wp-content/...016/10/C40.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/yd9s94fl

Also see the Intel article on shielded port connectors; see figure 4-6.
Oh, you'd have to read instead of proffer your should-be's maxims as
absolute truths.

Also remember that a wireless mouse is heavier (due to the batteries)
than a wired one

not necessarily,

Please explain how the weight of batteries does not increase the weight
of the mouse? Oh, magical batteries of zero weight. Got a URL where I
can buy those?

and if it is, not by any significant amount. in other words, the
weight of a mouse does not matter.

So, according to nospam, you shouldn't care if your mouse weighs a
couple tons. Yeah, no one ever has to lift a mouse. Instead they have
a huge and open desk with huge mouse pads upon where to move the mouse
without physical constraints or they up the acceleration so the mouse
can be moved a little (provided the user moves faster to move farther
instead of moving linearly) making fine control impossible for more than
a few pixels. Pinkies WILL get fatigue faster with heavier mice due to
having to lift them. Everyone that I've seen claiming not having to
lift their mouse when physically observed has lifted their mouse
repeated times.

nospam is lucky. He doesn't have to repeatedly lift his mouse while
working on the computer for 10 hours a day, or longer (like going home
to play on the computer there).

In article , VanguardLH
wrote:

Alas, Bluetooth, USB, wi-fi (low-band) routers (especially those with
USB ports for NAS hosts), cordless phones, microwave ovens, baby
monitors, and several other devices all share the /unlicensed/ 2.4 GHz
frequency (if licensing were required then every user would have to get
one before they could use these devices).

it's normally not a problem.

Oh yes, this is our nospam god.

ad hominem.

Despite all the evidence to the
contrary, what nospam declares must be how it is.

there is very little evidence to the contrary.

the reality is that plenty of people use bluetooth, wifi and usb
without issue.

Since you narrowed down the Bluetooth interference to when the USB3
drive is active, have you tried using a better USB cable, especially
a shielded USB cable?

usb cables are shielded.

For USB 1 and 2, shielding is not mandated by the specification.

good luck finding a usb 1 cable, which has been obsolete for more than
a decade (and actually did require shielding for full speed).

for usb 2 & 3 cables, the ones that are sold in stores today, are
shielded.



The USB 2.0 specification says:

The USB can operate at three speeds. High-speed (480 Mb/s) and
full-speed (12 Mb/s) require the use of a shielded cable with two
power conductors and twisted pair signal conductors. Low-speed (1.5
Mb/s) recommends, but does not require the use of a cable with twisted
pair signal conductors.

Shielding is not mandated, nor even twisted pairs, for low-speed.

in other words, usb 2 cables, which support high speed, *must* be
shielded.

Also remember that a wireless mouse is heavier (due to the batteries)
than a wired one

not necessarily,

Please explain how the weight of batteries does not increase the weight
of the mouse? Oh, magical batteries of zero weight. Got a URL where I
can buy those?

you're assuming a bluetooth mouse and wired mouse are in every way
identical except for batteries. that is of course, a completely bogus
assumption.

the reality is that some bluetooth mice weigh less than wired mice.

a typical wired mouse is ~100 grams.

here's a wireless mouse that weighs just 32 grams, which weighs less
than most wired mice.
http://usb.brando.com/tiny-2-4ghz-wireless-mouse_p00511c037d15.html

this one doesn't list its weight, but it can't be very much:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=0TP-000J-00AV9

have you ever used a bluetooth mouse? or are you as usual, talking out
your ass?

any difference in weight is negligible, maybe 10-20 grams for similar
size mice. it's nothing anyone would even notice, except on a scale.

and if it is, not by any significant amount. in other words, the
weight of a mouse does not matter.

So, according to nospam, you shouldn't care if your mouse weighs a
couple tons.

straw man.

Jason wrote:
In article
l-
september.org, gn says...
Any words of wisdom on this?

I have seen the same behavior. In my case it is caused by
activity on a USB3-connected disk. If the disk is attached
but idle there is no interference. But Windows cannot
leave well enough alone apparently, and when I see the
light on the disk flickering I can expect the mouse
operation to get "choppy" for a few seconds.

Spatially separating the USB3 side of the machine from the Bluetooth
side of the machine, may be enough to stop the stuttering.

The nanoreceiver for Bluetooth can be put on a short piece of USB
extension cable, to improve the ability to position it so it is closer
to the mouse.

USB3 emissions have a broad peak at 2.5GHz and nulls at 0Hz and 5GHz.
The most impacted computer signals are Wifi and Bluetooth at 2.4GHz.

In the past, there was no sign of an emissions problem with
USB2. Where the data bit rate and edge rate of the signals
is quite different than USB3.

Paul

On May 28, 2018, Paul wrote
(in article ):

Jason wrote:
In article
l-
september.org, gn says...
Any words of wisdom on this?

I have seen the same behavior. In my case it is caused by
activity on a USB3-connected disk. If the disk is attached
but idle there is no interference. But Windows cannot
leave well enough alone apparently, and when I see the
light on the disk flickering I can expect the mouse
operation to get "choppy" for a few seconds.

Spatially separating the USB3 side of the machine from the Bluetooth
side of the machine, may be enough to stop the stuttering.

The nanoreceiver for Bluetooth can be put on a short piece of USB
extension cable, to improve the ability to position it so it is closer
to the mouse.

USB3 emissions have a broad peak at 2.5GHz and nulls at 0Hz and 5GHz.
The most impacted computer signals are Wifi and Bluetooth at 2.4GHz.

In the past, there was no sign of an emissions problem with
USB2. Where the data bit rate and edge rate of the signals
is quite different than USB3.

Paul

This is the built in Bluetooth on a Lenovo Thinkpad.

--
Peter Kozlov

Peter Kozlov wrote:
On May 28, 2018, Paul wrote
(in article ):

Jason wrote:
In article
l-
september.org, gn says...
Any words of wisdom on this?
I have seen the same behavior. In my case it is caused by
activity on a USB3-connected disk. If the disk is attached
but idle there is no interference. But Windows cannot
leave well enough alone apparently, and when I see the
light on the disk flickering I can expect the mouse
operation to get "choppy" for a few seconds.
Spatially separating the USB3 side of the machine from the Bluetooth
side of the machine, may be enough to stop the stuttering.

The nanoreceiver for Bluetooth can be put on a short piece of USB
extension cable, to improve the ability to position it so it is closer
to the mouse.

USB3 emissions have a broad peak at 2.5GHz and nulls at 0Hz and 5GHz.
The most impacted computer signals are Wifi and Bluetooth at 2.4GHz.

In the past, there was no sign of an emissions problem with
USB2. Where the data bit rate and edge rate of the signals
is quite different than USB3.

Paul

This is the built in Bluetooth on a Lenovo Thinkpad.


How about disabling the built-in one and using a nano receiver ?
That will at least allow placing the antenna on the side where you use the mouse.

Paul