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"Always on top" isn't always on top



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 7th 13, 03:13 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Tim Slattery
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Posts: 1,340
Default "Always on top" isn't always on top

I'm running 64-bit Win7. I'm running the "Clock" application that (I
think) comes from (32-bit) XP. I have it set to be "Always on top".
But it frequently gets covered up by other windows. It doesn't
*always* get covered up. But fairly often I'll look for it and it's
been buried.

Is there a way to get this to work properly?

--
Tim Slattery

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  #2  
Old February 7th 13, 05:27 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Auric__
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Posts: 295
Default "Always on top" isn't always on top

Tim Slattery wrote:

I'm running 64-bit Win7. I'm running the "Clock" application that (I
think) comes from (32-bit) XP. I have it set to be "Always on top".
But it frequently gets covered up by other windows. It doesn't
*always* get covered up. But fairly often I'll look for it and it's
been buried.

Is there a way to get this to work properly?


What's the filename? I don't see any "clock" app on my XP system, aside from
the one that sits in the tray.

--
Baby doll or disco ball?
  #3  
Old February 7th 13, 05:55 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Rob
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Posts: 97
Default "Always on top" isn't always on top

On 07/02/2013 14:13, Tim Slattery wrote:
I'm running 64-bit Win7. I'm running the "Clock" application that (I
think) comes from (32-bit) XP. I have it set to be "Always on top".
But it frequently gets covered up by other windows. It doesn't
*always* get covered up. But fairly often I'll look for it and it's
been buried.

Is there a way to get this to work properly?


Try the clock *gadget* - 'always on top' works fine here with that.
--
Rob

  #4  
Old February 7th 13, 06:14 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Tim Slattery
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Posts: 1,340
Default "Always on top" isn't always on top

"Auric__" wrote:

Tim Slattery wrote:

I'm running 64-bit Win7. I'm running the "Clock" application that (I
think) comes from (32-bit) XP. I have it set to be "Always on top".
But it frequently gets covered up by other windows. It doesn't
*always* get covered up. But fairly often I'll look for it and it's
been buried.

Is there a way to get this to work properly?


What's the filename? I don't see any "clock" app on my XP system, aside from
the one that sits in the tray.


clock.exe

--
Tim Slattery

  #5  
Old February 7th 13, 06:16 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Tim Slattery
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Posts: 1,340
Default "Always on top" isn't always on top

Rob wrote:


Try the clock *gadget* - 'always on top' works fine here with that.


This is my office machine, and it's *very* locked-down. We don't seem
to have gadgets. Or maybe they're hidden someplace I haven't looked
yet.

--
Tim Slattery

  #6  
Old February 7th 13, 07:55 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Asger Joergensen
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Posts: 92
Default "Always on top" isn't always on top

Hi Tim

Tim Slattery wrote:

This is my office machine, and it's very locked-down. We don't seem
to have gadgets. Or maybe they're hidden someplace I haven't looked
yet.


I didn't see any on my win7 64bit until I typed in gadget in the start
button search field, they are there in the standard installation.

--
Best regards
Asger-P
http://Asger-P.dk/software
QLaunch, New version with 12 tools.
  #7  
Old February 8th 13, 01:34 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
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Posts: 10,881
Default "Always on top" isn't always on top

"Tim Slattery" wrote:

Rob wrote:

Try the clock *gadget* - 'always on top' works fine here with that.


This is my office machine, and it's *very* locked-down. We don't seem
to have gadgets. Or maybe they're hidden someplace I haven't looked
yet.


There is no clock.exe file in Windows XP. That app came from somewhere
else, like you downloaded it. Doesn't it's Help - About menu say who
wrote it (so you could see if they have updates)?

If your workstation is locked down, why are you allowed to install or
copy software on it that is not on an authorized list?

Do any of the other apps for their window also try to stay "always on
top"? You could have apps battling for the z-axis position.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-order

I believe z-order is an attribute of a window object. So it's possible
on app could still change the z-order of a window for a different app.
Your clock app might not even be using z-order but a much clumsier
method of polling its focus attribute: if the window isn't focused then
make it so. That is, the app keeps trying to steal back focus.

For Windows XP (using TweakUI XP to create a registry entry), you could
configure Windows NOT to allow focus stealing. It would modify:

Registry key: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Desktop
Data item: ForegroundLockTimeout

Alas, every Windows version after XP ignores that registry entry so
focus stealing has been a long time complaint with Windows 7. MS devs
claimed that Win7 was not supposed to allow processes to steal focus
(and modified the flashing button behavior in the Windows taskbar) so
they removed support for this registry entry and assume it is always 0
(zero). By the way, zero was the value back in WinXP that *did* allow
processes to steal focus. Well, turns out they did NOT fix apps from
stealing focus.

Microsoft doesn't want to rely solely on a blinking button in the
Windows taskbar to notify users that a process wants its window to have
foreground focus. The example they provide is anti-virus software. Say
you start a copy operation for a couple dozen files. The AV scanner
finds one that is infected. It opens an alert window to tell you about
the infected file. If the AV's alert window couldn't rise its z-axis to
the top for you to see it, you would see the copy operation hang and not
know why. The AV's alert window would be behind Windows Explorer that
was doing the copy but is now hung because the AV scanner is pending
that file's copy operation waiting for you to make a choice (Ignore,
Delete, Quarantine). So "always on top" isn't an absolute window
positioning method.

I've heard of (but not used) a few utilities that attempt to alter focus
stealing and might work with your unidentified clock program. They a

PowerMenu: http://www.abstractpath.com/powermenu/
Window On Top: http://www.skybn.com/
Deskpins: http://www.snapfiles.com/get/deskpins.html

Personally I'd check if the author of the unidentified clock program to
see if they have an update that uses a different "always on top" method.
  #8  
Old February 8th 13, 02:22 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Rob
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Posts: 97
Default "Always on top" isn't always on top

On 07/02/2013 17:16, Tim Slattery wrote:
Rob wrote:


Try the clock *gadget* - 'always on top' works fine here with that.


This is my office machine, and it's *very* locked-down. We don't seem
to have gadgets. Or maybe they're hidden someplace I haven't looked
yet.

I know what you mean - mine is too. Try right-clicking the desktop
and look for 'gadgets' near the bottom of the pop-up, or type 'gadgets'
in Start, Search. Some handy stuff in those.
HTH
--
Rob
  #9  
Old February 8th 13, 02:39 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Tim Slattery
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Posts: 1,340
Default "Always on top" isn't always on top

Rob wrote:

I know what you mean - mine is too. Try right-clicking the desktop
and look for 'gadgets' near the bottom of the pop-up, or type 'gadgets'
in Start, Search. Some handy stuff in those.


Neither of those work. I think the Powers That Be have killed gadgets
here.

--
Tim Slattery

  #10  
Old February 8th 13, 02:46 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Tim Slattery
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Posts: 1,340
Default "Always on top" isn't always on top

VanguardLH wrote:

There is no clock.exe file in Windows XP. That app came from somewhere
else, like you downloaded it. Doesn't it's Help - About menu say who
wrote it (so you could see if they have updates)?


I'm sure it comes from some version of Windows. It's a 32-bit app, or
else I couldn't run it at all on Win7-64. And "Help/About" yields
information about the OS, not the application. Unusual, to say the
least.

Lets see, right-click on clock.exe, Details tab:
Product name is "Microsoft(R) Windows NT(TM) Operating System, Product
version is 4.00, Copyright is "Copyright(C) Microsoft Corp.
1981-1996", Date modified is 11/23/1999 10:04 AM. So it came with some
version of some Windows system.

If your workstation is locked down, why are you allowed to install or
copy software on it that is not on an authorized list?


Because this is an extremely simple program that has no install
routine, so it never encounters the blocks that have been installed.

For Windows XP (using TweakUI XP to create a registry entry), you could
configure Windows NOT to allow focus stealing. It would modify:


I can't even view the registry, much less edit it. That part of the
"lock-down" is VERY effective.

--
Tim Slattery

  #11  
Old February 8th 13, 02:47 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Tim Slattery
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Posts: 1,340
Default "Always on top" isn't always on top

Erik Vastmasd wrote:


If you still can't get it working try: Stoic Joker's T-Clock 2010.
http://www.stoicjoker.com/TClock/Download.php


This or another third party program is probably the ultimate answer.

--
Tim Slattery

  #12  
Old February 8th 13, 03:42 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Rob
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Posts: 97
Default "Always on top" isn't always on top

On 08/02/2013 13:39, Tim Slattery wrote:
Rob wrote:

I know what you mean - mine is too. Try right-clicking the desktop
and look for 'gadgets' near the bottom of the pop-up, or type 'gadgets'
in Start, Search. Some handy stuff in those.


Neither of those work. I think the Powers That Be have killed gadgets
here.

That's rather Draconian. The default set of gadgets is:
Calendar, Clock, CPU Meter, Currency, Weather, Feed Headlines,
Picture puzzle, Slide show, Windows Media Center.
One would have thought allowing the first 4 or 5 would be acceptable
even to authoritarian IT departments. It could also mean they're
too inept to selectively disable some gadgets, of course. ;-)
Cheers,
--
Rob
  #13  
Old February 8th 13, 08:03 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Zaidy036[_5_]
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Posts: 427
Default "Always on top" isn't always on top

On 2/7/2013 11:42 PM, Erik Vastmasd wrote:
I caught a glimpse of Tim Slattery on Thu, 07 Feb
2013 09:13:27 -0500, writing in alt.windows7.general:

I'm running 64-bit Win7. I'm running the "Clock" application that (I
think) comes from (32-bit) XP. I have it set to be "Always on top".
But it frequently gets covered up by other windows. It doesn't
*always* get covered up. But fairly often I'll look for it and it's
been buried.

Is there a way to get this to work properly?


If you still can't get it working try: Stoic Joker's T-Clock 2010.
http://www.stoicjoker.com/TClock/Download.php

It's free, I'm running the 64-bit version, 32-bit & 64-bit are included
in the download. It's configurable and sits in the system tray covering
the existing Windows 7 clock and starts automatically at Windows
startup.

At one time the Gadgets were identified as insecure and it was
recommended to disable and not use them.
  #14  
Old February 8th 13, 08:13 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Gene E. Bloch[_2_]
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Posts: 7,485
Default "Always on top" isn't always on top

On Fri, 08 Feb 2013 08:47:19 -0500, Tim Slattery wrote:

Erik Vastmasd wrote:

If you still can't get it working try: Stoic Joker's T-Clock 2010.
http://www.stoicjoker.com/TClock/Download.php


This or another third party program is probably the ultimate answer.


Per another remark of yours in this thread, it might be possible to find
one that is a standalone. You might want to add USB version or portable
version to your search string, since one characteristic of those is
exactly that they require no installation.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
  #15  
Old February 8th 13, 08:25 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Gene E. Bloch[_2_]
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Posts: 7,485
Default "Always on top" isn't always on top

On Fri, 08 Feb 2013 14:42:52 +0000, Rob wrote:

On 08/02/2013 13:39, Tim Slattery wrote:
Rob wrote:

I know what you mean - mine is too. Try right-clicking the desktop
and look for 'gadgets' near the bottom of the pop-up, or type 'gadgets'
in Start, Search. Some handy stuff in those.


Neither of those work. I think the Powers That Be have killed gadgets
here.

That's rather Draconian. The default set of gadgets is:
Calendar, Clock, CPU Meter, Currency, Weather, Feed Headlines,
Picture puzzle, Slide show, Windows Media Center.
One would have thought allowing the first 4 or 5 would be acceptable
even to authoritarian IT departments. It could also mean they're
too inept to selectively disable some gadgets, of course. ;-)
Cheers,


OTOH, Microsoft has dropped support for gadgets because of (ahem)
security issues - or so I've been told.

Read the first sentence under the heading "Desktop Gadgets" on this
page:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...nalize/gadgets

The page is kind of vague in my opinion, but it does seem to indicate
that MS is losing interest in gadgets.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
 




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