App thinks IE11 is IE7 ????

Hi All,


I have a weird one. I have a customer with several W7-Pro
machines running a business-to-business app that required
Internet Explorer (IE). All of the machines are running IE11.

On one machine, the app wags the finger at them for running
IE7. Huh? What the hell ... (Yes, I double checked!)

Any idea how to troubleshoot this? (I am going to try a forced
removal and reinstall of IE 11.)

-T

On 11/13/2015 07:56 PM, T wrote:
Hi All,


I have a weird one. I have a customer with several W7-Pro
machines running a business-to-business app that required
Internet Explorer (IE). All of the machines are running IE11.

On one machine, the app wags the finger at them for running
IE7. Huh? What the hell ... (Yes, I double checked!)

Any idea how to troubleshoot this? (I am going to try a forced
removal and reinstall of IE 11.)

-T

And this only happens on first use after a reboot

T wrote:
Hi All,


I have a weird one. I have a customer with several W7-Pro
machines running a business-to-business app that required
Internet Explorer (IE). All of the machines are running IE11.

On one machine, the app wags the finger at them for running
IE7. Huh? What the hell ... (Yes, I double checked!)

Any idea how to troubleshoot this? (I am going to try a forced
removal and reinstall of IE 11.)

-T

Use your packet sniffer, and note the User Agent string ?

Does the browser have a User Agent spoofer plugin ?

There's bound to be a logical explanation.

The IE11 is modern enough, to normally use a "generic"
User Agent. Microsoft no longer wants web sites to be
sniffing modern IE. And to stop that, the User Agent
is not a recognizable/unique value. The web site can
no longer say "Aha, IE11". It would have to do
many sniffs, check for capabilities rather than User Agent,
to have a "percentage probability that this is IE11".
So Microsoft encourages capability sniffing ("Do you understand
HTML5") rather than "Show me your User Agent".

For something like an actual IE7 browser, you should
find the User Agent string specifically IDs the thing
as IE7. There are keywords in the User Agent string,
which are a dead giveaway as to what it is.

Paul

On 11/13/2015 08:55 PM, Paul wrote:
T wrote:
Hi All,


I have a weird one. I have a customer with several W7-Pro
machines running a business-to-business app that required
Internet Explorer (IE). All of the machines are running IE11.

On one machine, the app wags the finger at them for running
IE7. Huh? What the hell ... (Yes, I double checked!)

Any idea how to troubleshoot this? (I am going to try a forced
removal and reinstall of IE 11.)

-T

Use your packet sniffer, and note the User Agent string ?

Does the browser have a User Agent spoofer plugin ?

There's bound to be a logical explanation.

The IE11 is modern enough, to normally use a "generic"
User Agent. Microsoft no longer wants web sites to be
sniffing modern IE. And to stop that, the User Agent
is not a recognizable/unique value. The web site can
no longer say "Aha, IE11". It would have to do
many sniffs, check for capabilities rather than User Agent,
to have a "percentage probability that this is IE11".
So Microsoft encourages capability sniffing ("Do you understand
HTML5") rather than "Show me your User Agent".

For something like an actual IE7 browser, you should
find the User Agent string specifically IDs the thing
as IE7. There are keywords in the User Agent string,
which are a dead giveaway as to what it is.

Paul


There is no IE7 on the computer. :'(

I removed 11. IE reverted to 8. Then I removed 8.
I tried reinstalling 11, but it crashed. I am doing
the M$ updates as I write this.

T wrote:

Paul wrote:

T wrote:

I have a customer with several W7-Pro machines running a
business-to-business app that required Internet Explorer (IE). All
of the machines are running IE11.

On one machine, the app wags the finger at them for running IE7.

Use your packet sniffer, and note the User Agent string ?

Does the browser have a User Agent spoofer plugin ?

There is no IE7 on the computer.

Did you do as Paul recommended to see what the OTHER endpoint this is
the client connecting to it? Besides using a packet sniffer (e.g.,
wireshark), you could visit a site that shows you what UA (User Agent)
string the client gave to them (regardless of what was the actual web
browser and version of it).

http://whatsmyuseragent.com/
http://useragentstring.com/

Those will show what the client claims is its UA string, not what actual
web browser and version connected to the server. These are the known UA
strings issued by Internet Explorer:

http://useragentstring.com/pages/Internet%20Explorer/

There are lots of US add-ons for Firefox. The only one that I know
about and have used for for Internet Explorer is UApick
(http://www.enhanceie.com/ietoys/uapick.asp).

On 11/13/2015 10:02 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

Paul wrote:

T wrote:

I have a customer with several W7-Pro machines running a
business-to-business app that required Internet Explorer (IE). All
of the machines are running IE11.

On one machine, the app wags the finger at them for running IE7.

Use your packet sniffer, and note the User Agent string ?

Does the browser have a User Agent spoofer plugin ?

There is no IE7 on the computer.

Did you do as Paul recommended to see what the OTHER endpoint this is
the client connecting to it? Besides using a packet sniffer (e.g.,
wireshark), you could visit a site that shows you what UA (User Agent)
string the client gave to them (regardless of what was the actual web
browser and version of it).

http://whatsmyuseragent.com/
http://useragentstring.com/

Those will show what the client claims is its UA string, not what actual
web browser and version connected to the server. These are the known UA
strings issued by Internet Explorer:

http://useragentstring.com/pages/Internet%20Explorer/

There are lots of US add-ons for Firefox. The only one that I know
about and have used for for Internet Explorer is UApick
(http://www.enhanceie.com/ietoys/uapick.asp).


Still trying to get IE of any version reinstalled. I will test
the US when I get something installed. Right now IE 8 is
going back on. then I will try IE 11 again.

On 11/13/2015 10:07 PM, T wrote:
On 11/13/2015 10:02 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

Paul wrote:

T wrote:

I have a customer with several W7-Pro machines running a
business-to-business app that required Internet Explorer (IE). All
of the machines are running IE11.

On one machine, the app wags the finger at them for running IE7.

Use your packet sniffer, and note the User Agent string ?

Does the browser have a User Agent spoofer plugin ?

There is no IE7 on the computer.

Did you do as Paul recommended to see what the OTHER endpoint this is
the client connecting to it? Besides using a packet sniffer (e.g.,
wireshark), you could visit a site that shows you what UA (User Agent)
string the client gave to them (regardless of what was the actual web
browser and version of it).

http://whatsmyuseragent.com/
http://useragentstring.com/

Those will show what the client claims is its UA string, not what actual
web browser and version connected to the server. These are the known UA
strings issued by Internet Explorer:

http://useragentstring.com/pages/Internet%20Explorer/

There are lots of US add-ons for Firefox. The only one that I know
about and have used for for Internet Explorer is UApick
(http://www.enhanceie.com/ietoys/uapick.asp).


Still trying to get IE of any version reinstalled. I will test
the US

Should have been UA

when I get something installed. Right now IE 8 is
going back on. then I will try IE 11 again.

On 11/13/2015 10:08 PM, T wrote:
On 11/13/2015 10:07 PM, T wrote:
On 11/13/2015 10:02 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

Paul wrote:

T wrote:

I have a customer with several W7-Pro machines running a
business-to-business app that required Internet Explorer (IE). All
of the machines are running IE11.

On one machine, the app wags the finger at them for running IE7.

Use your packet sniffer, and note the User Agent string ?

Does the browser have a User Agent spoofer plugin ?

There is no IE7 on the computer.

Did you do as Paul recommended to see what the OTHER endpoint this is
the client connecting to it? Besides using a packet sniffer (e.g.,
wireshark), you could visit a site that shows you what UA (User Agent)
string the client gave to them (regardless of what was the actual web
browser and version of it).

http://whatsmyuseragent.com/
http://useragentstring.com/

Those will show what the client claims is its UA string, not what actual
web browser and version connected to the server. These are the known UA
strings issued by Internet Explorer:

http://useragentstring.com/pages/Internet%20Explorer/

There are lots of US add-ons for Firefox. The only one that I know
about and have used for for Internet Explorer is UApick
(http://www.enhanceie.com/ietoys/uapick.asp).


Still trying to get IE of any version reinstalled. I will test
the US

Should have been UA

when I get something installed. Right now IE 8 is
going back on. then I will try IE 11 again.



Found out you can't just install 11. You have to install
all the previous version that Windows Updates provides
and work you way up to 11. So far I managed to get
to 10. 11 crashes.

Fortunately the business-to-business web site likes 10 and
no longer thinks the customer is on 7. So, s***.

T wrote:

Found out you can't just install 11. You have to install all the
previous version that Windows Updates provides and work you way up to
11. So far I managed to get to 10. 11 crashes.

Fortunately the business-to-business web site likes 10 and no longer
thinks the customer is on 7. So, s***.

The problem is that sites eventually drop support for old version of web
browsers (any brand). Awhile back, sites started dropping support for
IE6. Then it was IE8 was their minimal supported version. Eventually
it will be IE10 and that'll eventually get dropped and IE11 will be the
minimum required. This is because web sites will start to use
functionality that is only available in a later version of the web
browser. They want to use HTML code that has functions that are
supported only as of some version of each web browser. A fix now that
works with an older version of a web browser might end up in having to
do another fix later when sites (and more than just the one you
mentioned anonymously) start upping again their minimal web browser
version.

If IE11 is crashing, did you try resetting it to make sure it is using
the default config? Did you disable GPU hardware-assisted acceleration
in the web browser? Whether IE, Firefox, or other web browsers, I've
not found it to be a stable feature. Too much depends on the video card
or chip, the driver for it, and how the acceleration feature was coded
in the web browser. Even in Firefox, I ended up disabling acceleration
because it made scrolling jerky. If GPU hardware-assisted acceleration
doesn't hit just the right sweet spot of web browser code, video driver
code, video card firmware, and GPU support, the result is an unstable
web browser that crashes too often. Unless your "business" customer is
in the online gaming business, he doesn't need hardware acceleration in
the web browser. Does your business customer play online video games?

On 11/14/2015 01:00 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

Found out you can't just install 11. You have to install all the
previous version that Windows Updates provides and work you way up to
11. So far I managed to get to 10. 11 crashes.

Fortunately the business-to-business web site likes 10 and no longer
thinks the customer is on 7. So, s***.

The problem is that sites eventually drop support for old version of web
browsers (any brand). Awhile back, sites started dropping support for
IE6. Then it was IE8 was their minimal supported version. Eventually
it will be IE10 and that'll eventually get dropped and IE11 will be the
minimum required. This is because web sites will start to use
functionality that is only available in a later version of the web
browser. They want to use HTML code that has functions that are
supported only as of some version of each web browser. A fix now that
works with an older version of a web browser might end up in having to
do another fix later when sites (and more than just the one you
mentioned anonymously) start upping again their minimal web browser
version.

If IE11 is crashing, did you try resetting it to make sure it is using
the default config? Did you disable GPU hardware-assisted acceleration
in the web browser? Whether IE, Firefox, or other web browsers, I've
not found it to be a stable feature. Too much depends on the video card
or chip, the driver for it, and how the acceleration feature was coded
in the web browser. Even in Firefox, I ended up disabling acceleration
because it made scrolling jerky. If GPU hardware-assisted acceleration
doesn't hit just the right sweet spot of web browser code, video driver
code, video card firmware, and GPU support, the result is an unstable
web browser that crashes too often. Unless your "business" customer is
in the online gaming business, he doesn't need hardware acceleration in
the web browser. Does your business customer play online video games?



Both the Windows Update and the Off Line install of IE11 crash.
IE stays at 10, but it works fine with the B-2-B site, so
s***. I just left it at 10.

Found a lot of folks on DuckDuckGo that had the same problem,
with no solutions. So, maybe someday, M$ will patch it.

Thank you for all the help with this,
-T

T wrote:

Both the Windows Update and the Off Line install of IE11 crash.
IE stays at 10, but it works fine with the B-2-B site, so
s***. I just left it at 10.

Found a lot of folks on DuckDuckGo that had the same problem,
with no solutions. So, maybe someday, M$ will patch it.

Oh, the installer crashes, not that IE11 crashes. I don't recall that
you can do an install (run MSI) in Windows' safe mode but you could use
msconfig.exe to disable all the startup programs (and services related
to those programs) and then reboot Windows into a more clean scenario.
Then test if the installer crashes. Also make sure your anti-virus or
other security software is disabled during the install.

Did you get a bitwidth version of IE11's installer that matches the
bitwidth of Windows 7? That is, if you have Win7 64-bit, did you
download the 64-bit package for IE11?

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/downl...7-details.aspx

On 11/14/2015 02:29 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

Both the Windows Update and the Off Line install of IE11 crash.
IE stays at 10, but it works fine with the B-2-B site, so
s***. I just left it at 10.

Found a lot of folks on DuckDuckGo that had the same problem,
with no solutions. So, maybe someday, M$ will patch it.

Oh, the installer crashes, not that IE11 crashes. I don't recall that
you can do an install (run MSI) in Windows' safe mode but you could use
msconfig.exe to disable all the startup programs (and services related
to those programs) and then reboot Windows into a more clean scenario.
Then test if the installer crashes. Also make sure your anti-virus or
other security software is disabled during the install.

Hi Vanguard,

I disabled it. Made no difference. Kaspersky End Point Security


Did you get a bitwidth version of IE11's installer that matches the
bitwidth of Windows 7? That is, if you have Win7 64-bit, did you
download the 64-bit package for IE11?

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/downl...7-details.aspx


It was 32 bit to match 32 bit Windows 7 pro. I even let M$ routine
choose for me once. Made no difference.

I have read others who have not had any luck whatsoever. M$
actually has a list of things to follow. Both of your two
suggestions were on the list plus so other which I have
forgotten. Others with the same problem complained that the list
did not help, which I can confirm.

But, I can not justify ($$$$) to try to upgrade from 10 to 11 as
their b-2-b app is now working and that is what I was commissioned
to do.

Thank you for all the help!
-T

Firefox and Chrome are a bazillion times easier to maintain
that IE. It is what it is.