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How does setting a static IP on a mobile device prevent linux router from assigning that IP address?



 
 
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  #61  
Old April 13th 17, 01:00 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
William Unruh
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Posts: 173
Default How does setting a static IP on a mobile device prevent linuxrouter from assigning that IP address?

On 2017-04-12, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
Le 12/04/2017 Ã* 14:14, Whiskers a écrit :

Setting his phone to use a static IP while connected to his home
network, would be a good idea if (when) he sets his router to use a
static IP for that device.


This does not make sense.
A static address for a device is set on the device, not on the router.


Addresses using dhcp, are set by the router. And a router can be set
up to always give a certain MAC the same IP address always.
It is also possible to set an IP on the device itself, but that you had
better clear with the AP administrator, as the danger is may devices
having the same IP, especially if many of th edevices are on dhcp.

NOw with most routers as AP YOU are the administrator, so YOU had better
make sure your device does not have the same IP as something else. As
has been mentioned ad nausium here, there are many ways of doing so. As
has been stated, most routers reserve a certain address space for
dynamic IP requests. So you had better make sure that your static IP is
not one of those. Most routers also are willing to assign a specific IP
for a specific MAC if you register that MAC with the router. routers
will also router stuff for a machine which simply says it is at a
certain IP address (int he router's range) (ie the device simply assumes
an IP). So lots of things are possible.
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  #62  
Old April 13th 17, 01:08 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
William Unruh
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Posts: 173
Default How does setting a static IP on a mobile device prevent linuxrouter from assigning that IP address?

On 2017-04-12, nospam wrote:
In article , Frank Slootweg
wrote:

he hasn't said *why* he wants this, and quite likely, there's an even
easier solution.


He *has* said why he wants/needs this - a fixed ip address on his
phone while at home


that's not a why.

he has not stated the problem he needs to solve and has demonstrated
that he knows very little about networking.


I am so sorry. I know it is a terrible thing to have your memory go.
He HAS said why. He wasnts to be able toaddress his phone so he can ftp
to it, and transfer files to and from the phone using his Win computer.
As such not having to figure out what the IP address of the phone is
each time he does so is a convenience and he wants that convenience.



his *guess* is that a static ip is the solution without realizing all
the problems it will cause for both himself and others.


Having the router always give his phone the same IP is not a problem.
Having his phone assume an IP is also not a problem on his home network
is also not a problem on his home network is also not a problem if he is
careful to make sure he does not assign from the router's dynamic IP
range and that nohting else has that IP. It can be a problem if he then
takes his phone onto another network.



-, but as usual you spout all kind of ********
without even knowing what the problem is.


he never said what the problem is, so nobody, including you, has any
idea.

See above


And yes, his want/need *is* a
legitimate one.


no it isn't.

there is no valid reason why a *phone* needs a static ip address.

  #63  
Old April 13th 17, 01:12 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
William Unruh
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Posts: 173
Default How does setting a static IP on a mobile device prevent linuxrouter from assigning that IP address?

On 2017-04-12, nospam wrote:
In article , Mark Lloyd
wrote:

Since "Static DHCP" is a contradiction in terms,


Static IP served by DHCP. Doesn't sound like a contradiction.


just what do you think the 'd' in dhcp stands for? hint: dynamic.

expanding it gives: static dynamic host configuration protocol, which
is a contradiction.


No. The router does not do symantic parsing. It serves IP addresses. You
can, on most routers, tell it to serve a particular IP to a particular
MAC. That Many people call "static". It is the same IP address always.
It is also what most AP call static. Yes, DHCP is used, but he address
is static.



"static DHCP" could also apply to a DHCP server that supplies ONLY
static IPs. I have used software like that before, although you probably
will NOT find it on your router.


a static ip by definition is not handed out by a dhcp server. it's
configured on the device.


Unfortunately definitions are not cooked up by each individual but come
from common useage.


  #64  
Old April 13th 17, 03:22 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jeff Liebermann[_2_]
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Posts: 49
Default How does setting a static IP on a mobile device prevent linux router from assigning that IP address?

On 12 Apr 2017 21:29:13 GMT, Frank Slootweg
wrote:

Since "Static DHCP" is a contradiction in terms, is it so silly to say
"Static IP" when the actual setting in some router is "Static DHCP IP"?
No, of course it isn't, because it leaves out the silly contradiction in
terms. That the static IP is probably managed by the same function which
also assigns dynamic IPs is totally irrelevant.


Sigh. I think we can all agreed that a (real) static IP LAN address
is NOT delivered by the DHCP server in the router, while a dynamic IP
LAN address is delivered by the DHCP server in the router. Any
objections so far?

Not hearing any, we have our first problem when the static IP address
is configured to be in the middle of the DHCP IP address pool. For
example, some routers assign almost the entire Class C IP address
block to DHCP, usually 192.168.1.2 through 192.168.1.254. That makes
it rather difficult for users to assign static IP's to their
computahs, servers, print servers, etc, and not have the router try to
assign the same address to some other machine. The obvious fix is to
assign a smaller chunk of the Class C IP address block (such as .100
to .199) to the DHCP address pool in the router and not use these for
static IP's, but what happens if the administrator or owner does do
this and leaves everything at the default settings? It's now the
routers job to figure out which IP addresses are being used on the
LAN. It can do this by pinging a prospective IP address, sniffing
traffic, digging though recent DHCP assignments (for dealing with
machines that randomly connect and disconnect), or looking at the ARP
table for addresses in use. There's an RFC for each of these. None
of them are deemed "required", which give router manufactures a great
opportunity to do leave them out, with predictable results.

In theory, if one sets a static IP address for some (mobile) device on
a network managed by a router, the router will be able to detect the
presence of that device, it's MAC address, and what IP address it is
using by one of the aforementioned methods. It will then not assign
in use addresses via DHCP. However, I wouldn't count on it. Just
keep the DHCP IP address pool, and the static assigned IP addresses
separate and you won't have a duplicate IP address problem.

Incidentally, a fun DHCP problem is drive-by DHCP, where a wireless
client, laptop, or smartphone literally drives past an open (no WPA
encryption password required) wireless router, which then assigns it
an IP address. Comcast "gateways" do that so they can do their
xfinitywifi thing. The problem is that unless the router is set to
expire such DHCP assignments rather quickly, the ARP table will
rapidly fill up causing the router to do "unexpected" things. ARP
table overflow is one reason that some coffee shop routers need to be
rebooted quite often.

Of course, there's a security problem with sequentially assigning IP
addresses via DHCP. Some evil hacker (like me) might be able to
predict the assigned IP address of some device as it is turned on or
wakes up. Then, the evil hacker can spoof that IP address on the
network and impersonate the device. So, there's some RFC for
randomizing the assignment of IP addresses by DHCP.

Finally, if you're not asleep from the boring lecture by now, we have
what I'll designate as "pre-assigned, pre-configured, or reserved
static DHCP". There are other names for it, but the mechanisms are
identical. It's considered static because it doesn't change. If you
don't like the term "static", you might be able to substitute
something that means "does not change". It's pre-assigned or
reserved, because the DHCP server is configured to look at the clients
MAC address, and check a list of IP and MAC address pairs, that match
the clients MAC address. If they match, then the DHCP server assigns
it a specific IP address. This is really handy if you want all your
machines and devices configured for just DHCP, without having to
configure IP addresses for the machine, netmask, default gateway, DNS
servers, static routes, etc. Another cool feature is that a machine
can be moved from the network with the pre-assigned static IP address,
plugged into another networks with a completely different router, and
still work without reconfiguration.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #65  
Old April 13th 17, 05:32 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default How does setting a static IP on a mobile device prevent linux router from assigning that IP address?

In article , William Unruh
wrote:

he hasn't said *why* he wants this, and quite likely, there's an even
easier solution.

He *has* said why he wants/needs this - a fixed ip address on his
phone while at home


that's not a why.

he has not stated the problem he needs to solve and has demonstrated
that he knows very little about networking.


I am so sorry. I know it is a terrible thing to have your memory go.
He HAS said why.


eventually he did, but not initially.

He wasnts to be able toaddress his phone so he can ftp
to it, and transfer files to and from the phone using his Win computer.
As such not having to figure out what the IP address of the phone is
each time he does so is a convenience and he wants that convenience.


if he was interested in convenience, he wouldn't be asking about static
ips. he'd be asking about dns so he doesn't need to remember any ips.

his *guess* is that a static ip is the solution without realizing all
the problems it will cause for both himself and others.


Having the router always give his phone the same IP is not a problem.


yep. it's very easy to do with almost any router (a few don't support
reserved dhcp but not many).

Having his phone assume an IP is also not a problem on his home network
is also not a problem on his home network is also not a problem if he is
careful to make sure he does not assign from the router's dynamic IP
range and that nohting else has that IP.


it's not a problem only if he takes the time to configure it correctly
and guarantee there are no conflicts as well as always remembering to
change it when leaving the house and changing it back when returning.

that's a lot of ifs. otherwise, it's a problem.

It can be a problem if he then
takes his phone onto another network.


it almost certainly *will* be a problem on another network, both for
him as well as others using the network.
  #66  
Old April 13th 17, 05:32 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default How does setting a static IP on a mobile device prevent linux router from assigning that IP address?

In article , William Unruh
wrote:

Since "Static DHCP" is a contradiction in terms,

Static IP served by DHCP. Doesn't sound like a contradiction.


just what do you think the 'd' in dhcp stands for? hint: dynamic.

expanding it gives: static dynamic host configuration protocol, which
is a contradiction.


No. The router does not do symantic parsing. It serves IP addresses.


nobody said the router did semantic parsing.

*humans* do the parsing and the term 'static dynamic' is contradictory.

the router doesn't know nor care what humans calls it. the router just
moves the bits however it's configured.

You
can, on most routers, tell it to serve a particular IP to a particular
MAC. That Many people call "static". It is the same IP address always.


true

It is also what most AP call static.


not true.

Yes, DHCP is used, but he address
is static.


true.

"static DHCP" could also apply to a DHCP server that supplies ONLY
static IPs. I have used software like that before, although you probably
will NOT find it on your router.


a static ip by definition is not handed out by a dhcp server. it's
configured on the device.


Unfortunately definitions are not cooked up by each individual but come
from common useage.


which is what i've been saying all along.
  #67  
Old April 13th 17, 08:14 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mark Lloyd[_2_]
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Posts: 1,756
Default How does setting a static IP on a mobile device prevent linuxrouter from assigning that IP address?

On 04/12/2017 05:31 PM, nospam wrote:

[snip]

a static ip by definition is not handed out by a dhcp server. it's
configured on the device.


"Static is fixed, not changing.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The world is proof that God is a committee." [Bob Stokes]
  #68  
Old April 13th 17, 08:16 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mark Lloyd[_2_]
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Posts: 1,756
Default How does setting a static IP on a mobile device prevent linuxrouter from assigning that IP address?

On 04/12/2017 05:31 PM, nospam wrote:

[snip]

It's a static (constant, doesn't change) IP. It's just the DHCP server,
rather than the client device, that keeps it static.


it's dynamically assigned. it's just that the dhcp server reserves the
same one each time.


Strange use of the word "dynamic", for something that DOESN'T change.
Possibly theres confusion between a DYNAMIC process and a STATIC value.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The world is proof that God is a committee." [Bob Stokes]
  #69  
Old April 13th 17, 10:53 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Daniel60
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Posts: 72
Default How does setting a static IP on a mobile device prevent linuxrouter from assigning that IP address?

On 12/04/2017 10:28 PM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
Le 12/04/2017 à 14:14, Whiskers a écrit :

Setting his phone to use a static IP while connected to his home
network, would be a good idea if (when) he sets his router to use a
static IP for that device.


This does not make sense.
A static address for a device is set on the device, not on the router.


Could I suggest, by way of an example, that it is not a House that
determines its address, it is the *location* of the house on a street
that determines the house's address.

So a device is just a device, and doesn't really need an address until
it is connected to something else ... printer to computer, computer to
router, router to server, etc., etc.

Now, when we talk about Caravan or Winnebago, ..... that's something
else!! ;-)

Daniel
  #70  
Old April 13th 17, 01:04 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
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Posts: 1,356
Default How does setting a static IP on a mobile device prevent linuxrouter from assigning that IP address?

On 2017-04-12 14:39, nospam wrote:
In article ,
Whiskers wrote:

Google "address reservation". You don't want a fixed IP address
on a phone.

Not true, he does.

he might think he does, but he doesn't.

Your opinion noted.

it's not an opinion. he should *not* have a fixed ip address on his
phone. that is only going to cause a world of problems, especially
since he doesn't understand what he's doing.

what he wants is a reserved address, which is done at the router.


Setting his phone to use a static IP while connected to his home
network, would be a good idea


it's a horrible idea because he'd have to change it every time he
leaves the house and back again when he returns.


Not at all.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #71  
Old April 13th 17, 01:04 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
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Posts: 1,356
Default How does setting a static IP on a mobile device prevent linuxrouter from assigning that IP address?

On 2017-04-12 20:55, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 04/12/2017 09:57 AM, mike wrote:

[snip]

I referred to it as address reservation.
It's functionally equivalent to static IP when used with the
home router.


It is. The difference is where you make the settings, and the fact that
the device automatically becomes dynamic when on a different network.


Notice that the way it is set currently it is static on his home only,
dynamic elsewhere. There is no problem whatsoever, just a matter of choice.


--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #72  
Old April 13th 17, 01:06 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
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Posts: 1,356
Default How does setting a static IP on a mobile device prevent linuxrouter from assigning that IP address?

On 2017-04-12 19:50, nospam wrote:
In article , Frank Slootweg
wrote:

he hasn't said *why* he wants this, and quite likely, there's an even
easier solution.


He *has* said why he wants/needs this - a fixed ip address on his
phone while at home


that's not a why.

he has not stated the problem he needs to solve and has demonstrated
that he knows very little about networking.


Yes, he did say it. And it is a legitimate reason.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #73  
Old April 13th 17, 01:12 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
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Posts: 1,356
Default How does setting a static IP on a mobile device prevent linuxrouter from assigning that IP address?

On 2017-04-13 02:08, William Unruh wrote:

Having the router always give his phone the same IP is not a problem.
Having his phone assume an IP is also not a problem on his home network
is also not a problem on his home network is also not a problem if he is
careful to make sure he does not assign from the router's dynamic IP
range and that nohting else has that IP. It can be a problem if he then
takes his phone onto another network.


Not even then, because the configuration is not generic. It applies only
to a single SSID. He connects to another AP, and it gets DHCP again.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #74  
Old April 13th 17, 01:16 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,356
Default How does setting a static IP on a mobile device prevent linuxrouter from assigning that IP address?

On 2017-04-13 06:32, nospam wrote:
In article , William Unruh
wrote:



he has not stated the problem he needs to solve and has demonstrated
that he knows very little about networking.


I am so sorry. I know it is a terrible thing to have your memory go.
He HAS said why.


eventually he did, but not initially.


He did, on the first post:

On any mobile device (iOS, Android, whatever), you
can set up an FTP server (eg ES File Explorer on
Android) with a static IP address so that Windows
"My Network Places" has a permanent "shortcut" to
the entire mobile device file system (eg ftp://192.158.1.15:3721).

This is very useful, and I've been using it for a couple of weeks
ever since it was discussed here - because it effectively mounts
the mobile device as a network drive on Windows without adding any
new software on either Android or Windows.

Notice the mention to "since it was discussed here". It is a reference
to another thread.


He wasnts to be able toaddress his phone so he can ftp
to it, and transfer files to and from the phone using his Win computer.
As such not having to figure out what the IP address of the phone is
each time he does so is a convenience and he wants that convenience.


if he was interested in convenience, he wouldn't be asking about static
ips. he'd be asking about dns so he doesn't need to remember any ips.


You are assuming he has a router with that capability. I have seen none.


--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #75  
Old April 13th 17, 01:20 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,356
Default How does setting a static IP on a mobile device prevent linuxrouter from assigning that IP address?

On 2017-04-12 22:21, Stephen wrote:
On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 02:54:24 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
wrote:



c) You happen to have a router that before assigning an IP, first
pings that IP to see if it responds, then automatically removes that IP
from the pool of addresses it can give.



FWIW most home routers seem pretty brain dead for the optional
subtleties in the DHCP server standards - several types i have used
will merrily hand out the same IP address that is in use by a device
after a reboot.


Yes, indeed. I have not seen any home router doing that check. They may
exist, though.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
 




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