Bluetooth Mouse lag - Sometimes

On Tue, 29 May 2018 16:13:32 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Peter Kozlov wrote:
On May 29, 2018, nospam wrote
(in ) :

In article
l-september.org, Peter
Kozlov wrote:

It¹s not that sleep it goes into when not being used. I¹m actively using
it and suddenly it becomes lethargic for a few seconds and then returns to
normal. So as you move the pointer across the screen, it responds, bug it¹s
sluggish. If I wait for two or three seconds it returns to normal on its
own.
It¹s annoying more than anything else.
does it do that with more than one computer?

It’s a Lenovo ThinkPad T460 with a Lenovo Bluetooth mouse. Bought at the
same time on the same order shipped at the same time. I’ve only ever used
these two together. That’s my Windows PC. I have a MacBook, but that has an
Apple Bluetooth mouse which doesn’t exhibit this behavior at all. I have
not tried switching.


There is one bug in Windows 10, which causes lag
and stutter on a wired mouse. It's called the
"Chromium build bug", because people building copies
of Chromium (open source Chrome) discovered it.

It involves activities on a computer, which fork
tasks constantly (like compiler and linker). The
build tool insists on oversubscribing the CPU
(more tasks are forked than cores). This apparently
causes a bit of starvation for some background
tasks the OS wants to run, at a guess. Anyone who
does builds knows, that the build tools are designed
to oversubscribe on purpose, to get "maximum build
speed" from the hardware. We don't buy $10K boxen
for software developers, to have the hardware
"half used, because it's convenient for us to run
the OS that way".

After a while, starting a small test program while
the build is running, will show the mouse losing
responsiveness and stuttering. And presumably
there is some sort of garbage collection going
on in the background.

Microsoft has not fixed this. But bug was reported
by the person who detected the problem. I tested
in 16299 (doing a Chromium build) and the characteristics
were modified a bit, but it's still not fixed.

I doubt this is your problem, but you never know...

If you're not doing a Chromium or Firefox or Thunderbird
build, you might never notice this one. I think I
turned down the parallelism on Chromium build, by
using "-j 1", but unfortunately, the Visual Studio
tools have their own options for parallelism, where
say a linker might use three cores for some reason.
When you use -j 1, that doesn't actually entirely
serialize the build and prevent parallelism.

It's also possible to reduce the Windows 10 desktop
to an unresponsive state, when the garbage collector
the DE uses cuts in. On my machine, the garbage collector
interval lasts for around 20 seconds. If you click
on an icon to open a program during this 20 second
interval, nothing happens. Not even the icon shading
changes. Microsoft (partially) fixed this in 17034.
In 16299, the garbage collector would continue to
cause 20 second outages at random. On 17034, you can
have an initial 20 second outage, but subsequently
the garbage collector doesn't do that over and over
again for no reason. So the behavior is "partially
patched", and the borked architecture remains.
The Object Oriented crowd would be proud, of a
design that reduces a modern piece of hardware
to a vegetable like that :-) (They love garbage collectors.)
Good job. Feels like MacOS from 1990 or something.
I don't think I've ever seen Linux do that :-)
You can have the Xserver tip over on Linux
(Xorg has its weak points), but "snoozing"
doesn't seem to be a failure mode for it.

Paul

All of what you wrote makes sense. It's a physical quad core machine.
I have no idea how it is being taxed but I'll try to be more mindful
of that.

Thanks Paul.

--
Peter Kozlov

Peter Kozlov wrote:


All of what you wrote makes sense. It's a physical quad core machine.
I have no idea how it is being taxed but I'll try to be more mindful
of that.

Thanks Paul.

It only makes sense, if your usage pattern does the
same things a Chromium build would do. Normal usage
of the machine gives the OS "plenty of time to catch up".

*******

The garbage collector behavior happens after you open
a 36,300 page PDF file. And where did I get a 36,300 page
PDF file ? Why, from the Microsoft site, and nowhere else.
The biggest file I know of before that, was a 4096 page
file prepared using automation, by Intel.

https://download.microsoft.com/downl...er_2006_R2.pdf

Open that in MSEdge browser (which has a built-in PDF plugin).

Search for the string "AddNodeIfNotThere". It will take
on the order of 7.5 minutes to complete the search.
(Some other PDF tools, didn't actually finish this test.)

Then notice later, whether double-clicking icons on the
desktop, continues to work normally or not. Keep the
Task Manager open so you can "see something rail".
The duration of the outage, could be proportional
to the RAM on the system.

Paul

nospam wrote:

*you* cited this mouse:
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/bluetooth-mouse-m557?crid=7
Mouse Weight (including battery): 3.77 oz (107 g)

see where it says 'including battery'? guess what that means. take as
much time as you need.

Yep, my mistake, missed that, and admit it. 107 grams with batteries
for the Bluetooth mouse of similar size compared to my 59 gram wired
M100 mouse (not the 90 grams spec'ed). Wired is still 45% lighter when
comparing apples to apples, not apples to oranges with your mini-mouse
mismatched example. It would be tough to carry 10 normal passenger
sized car tires (250 pounds) but much easier to carry 10 wheelbarrow
tires (62 pounds). The wired mouse's weight includes the cable. Um,
when you look at a wired mouse, what is holding it up? Yep, the desk.

Instead of going by specs, I decided to actually weigh my M100 mouse by
lifting it to put onto a scale. The only added weight contributed by
the cable was the short length that was suspended off the desk. I don't
lift the entire cable to lift and move the mouse. Instead of the 90
grams spec'ed for the mouse, it weighed in at 59 grams. Yep, the cable
accounted for a third of the product/spec weight.

here's a bluetooth mouse that's 66 grams w/o batteries:
https://www.razer.com/gaming-mice/razer-atheris

aa lithium batteries weigh 15g each:
http://data.energizer.com/pdfs/l91.pdf

the mouse + two aa batteries is 96 grams, or just 6 grams heavier than
the logitech wired mouse you cited.

Which includes the cable and connector mass. Do you really lift the
entire cable and connector (while somehow keeping it connected) to lift
and move the mouse? For the 96-gram spec'ed M100 mouse, I measured mine
and it weighs 59 grams.

I gave up on wireless mice awhile ago. Never lasted long enough when in
constant use all day long and then the evenings, too. Logitech, IBM,
Microsoft, This is like LED bulbs claiming a 10-year lifespan but only
if they are used 3 hours maximum per day. Guess during the winter you
are expected to sit in the dark the rest of the 9 nighttime hours.

Despite their claims for lifespan, the wireless mice were dying after 3
to 4 days. The problem is they get flaky before they die. They don't
just instantly stop functioning.

What Bluetooth mice do you have that you can measure their real
mouse-only weight with batteries installed on a scale? Be interesting
to see if those match the maker's specs. The mouse-only weight of the
M100 was far lower than the product/spec weight. Perhaps your Bluetooth
mouse (you have one, I assume) weighs significantly different than its
spec weight. I was pleasantly surprised when measuring my M100's
mouse-only weight (what I actually pick up) that it was a third less
hefty than spec'ed.

In article , VanguardLH
wrote:


*you* cited this mouse:
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/bluetooth-mouse-m557?crid=7
Mouse Weight (including battery): 3.77 oz (107 g)

see where it says 'including battery'? guess what that means. take as
much time as you need.

Yep, my mistake, missed that, and admit it. 107 grams with batteries
for the Bluetooth mouse of similar size compared to my 59 gram wired
M100 mouse (not the 90 grams spec'ed). Wired is still 45% lighter when
comparing apples to apples, not apples to oranges with your mini-mouse
mismatched example. It would be tough to carry 10 normal passenger
sized car tires (250 pounds) but much easier to carry 10 wheelbarrow
tires (62 pounds). The wired mouse's weight includes the cable. Um,
when you look at a wired mouse, what is holding it up? Yep, the desk.

you are cherry picking to fit your agenda.

wireless and wired mice span an overlapping range of weights.

it's *not* correct that a wireless mouse is always heavier than a wired
mouse. some are, some are not. there are wired mice that are in the
150g range.

the difference is also tens of grams, not hundreds of pounds, so your
analogy fails. it isn't anything anyone would notice in normal use.



I gave up on wireless mice awhile ago. Never lasted long enough when in
constant use all day long and then the evenings, too. Logitech, IBM,
Microsoft, This is like LED bulbs claiming a 10-year lifespan but only
if they are used 3 hours maximum per day. Guess during the winter you
are expected to sit in the dark the rest of the 9 nighttime hours.

it's nothing like that at all. another bogus analogy.

Despite their claims for lifespan, the wireless mice were dying after 3
to 4 days. The problem is they get flaky before they die. They don't
just instantly stop functioning.

then you had incredibly ****ty wireless mice and/or ****ty batteries.

these claim two *years* on a single battery:
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/m330-silent-plus
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/m720-triathlon

On Wed, 30 May 2018 09:21:27 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , VanguardLH
wrote:


*you* cited this mouse:
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/bluetooth-mouse-m557?crid=7
Mouse Weight (including battery): 3.77 oz (107 g)

see where it says 'including battery'? guess what that means. take as
much time as you need.

Yep, my mistake, missed that, and admit it. 107 grams with batteries
for the Bluetooth mouse of similar size compared to my 59 gram wired
M100 mouse (not the 90 grams spec'ed). Wired is still 45% lighter when
comparing apples to apples, not apples to oranges with your mini-mouse
mismatched example. It would be tough to carry 10 normal passenger
sized car tires (250 pounds) but much easier to carry 10 wheelbarrow
tires (62 pounds). The wired mouse's weight includes the cable. Um,
when you look at a wired mouse, what is holding it up? Yep, the desk.

you are cherry picking to fit your agenda.

wireless and wired mice span an overlapping range of weights.

it's *not* correct that a wireless mouse is always heavier than a wired
mouse. some are, some are not. there are wired mice that are in the
150g range.

the difference is also tens of grams, not hundreds of pounds, so your
analogy fails. it isn't anything anyone would notice in normal use.



I gave up on wireless mice awhile ago. Never lasted long enough when in
constant use all day long and then the evenings, too. Logitech, IBM,
Microsoft, This is like LED bulbs claiming a 10-year lifespan but only
if they are used 3 hours maximum per day. Guess during the winter you
are expected to sit in the dark the rest of the 9 nighttime hours.

it's nothing like that at all. another bogus analogy.

Despite their claims for lifespan, the wireless mice were dying after 3
to 4 days. The problem is they get flaky before they die. They don't
just instantly stop functioning.

then you had incredibly ****ty wireless mice and/or ****ty batteries.

these claim two *years* on a single battery:
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/m330-silent-plus
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/m720-triathlon

My Logitech M570 has the same battery in it that I put in back in
2012. I used it without cease from 2012-2013 until July, stopped until
2017 and now continued using it. I'm still at a 35% charge in it. To
be honest, I don't think I ever ran out of battery power in ANY of my
Logitech wireless peripherals including a keyboard.

On 05/30/2018 8:21 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , VanguardLH
wrote:


*you* cited this mouse:
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/bluetooth-mouse-m557?crid=7
Mouse Weight (including battery): 3.77 oz (107 g)

see where it says 'including battery'? guess what that means. take as
much time as you need.

Yep, my mistake, missed that, and admit it. 107 grams with batteries
for the Bluetooth mouse of similar size compared to my 59 gram wired
M100 mouse (not the 90 grams spec'ed). Wired is still 45% lighter when
comparing apples to apples, not apples to oranges with your mini-mouse
mismatched example. It would be tough to carry 10 normal passenger
sized car tires (250 pounds) but much easier to carry 10 wheelbarrow
tires (62 pounds). The wired mouse's weight includes the cable. Um,
when you look at a wired mouse, what is holding it up? Yep, the desk.

you are cherry picking to fit your agenda.

wireless and wired mice span an overlapping range of weights.

it's *not* correct that a wireless mouse is always heavier than a wired
mouse. some are, some are not. there are wired mice that are in the
150g range.

the difference is also tens of grams, not hundreds of pounds, so your
analogy fails. it isn't anything anyone would notice in normal use.



I gave up on wireless mice awhile ago. Never lasted long enough when in
constant use all day long and then the evenings, too. Logitech, IBM,
Microsoft, This is like LED bulbs claiming a 10-year lifespan but only
if they are used 3 hours maximum per day. Guess during the winter you
are expected to sit in the dark the rest of the 9 nighttime hours.

it's nothing like that at all. another bogus analogy.

Despite their claims for lifespan, the wireless mice were dying after 3
to 4 days. The problem is they get flaky before they die. They don't
just instantly stop functioning.

then you had incredibly ****ty wireless mice and/or ****ty batteries.

these claim two *years* on a single battery:
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/m330-silent-plus
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/m720-triathlon


My Logitech wireless M510 runs well over a year on good Panasonic
alkaline AA cells, It weighs 130 grams which to me is just right, and I
love it.

Rene

On Wed, 30 May 2018 09:37:58 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

On 05/30/2018 8:21 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , VanguardLH
wrote:


*you* cited this mouse:
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/bluetooth-mouse-m557?crid=7
Mouse Weight (including battery): 3.77 oz (107 g)

see where it says 'including battery'? guess what that means. take as
much time as you need.

Yep, my mistake, missed that, and admit it. 107 grams with batteries
for the Bluetooth mouse of similar size compared to my 59 gram wired
M100 mouse (not the 90 grams spec'ed). Wired is still 45% lighter when
comparing apples to apples, not apples to oranges with your mini-mouse
mismatched example. It would be tough to carry 10 normal passenger
sized car tires (250 pounds) but much easier to carry 10 wheelbarrow
tires (62 pounds). The wired mouse's weight includes the cable. Um,
when you look at a wired mouse, what is holding it up? Yep, the desk.

you are cherry picking to fit your agenda.

wireless and wired mice span an overlapping range of weights.

it's *not* correct that a wireless mouse is always heavier than a wired
mouse. some are, some are not. there are wired mice that are in the
150g range.

the difference is also tens of grams, not hundreds of pounds, so your
analogy fails. it isn't anything anyone would notice in normal use.



I gave up on wireless mice awhile ago. Never lasted long enough when in
constant use all day long and then the evenings, too. Logitech, IBM,
Microsoft, This is like LED bulbs claiming a 10-year lifespan but only
if they are used 3 hours maximum per day. Guess during the winter you
are expected to sit in the dark the rest of the 9 nighttime hours.

it's nothing like that at all. another bogus analogy.

Despite their claims for lifespan, the wireless mice were dying after 3
to 4 days. The problem is they get flaky before they die. They don't
just instantly stop functioning.

then you had incredibly ****ty wireless mice and/or ****ty batteries.

these claim two *years* on a single battery:
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/m330-silent-plus
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/m720-triathlon


My Logitech wireless M510 runs well over a year on good Panasonic
alkaline AA cells, It weighs 130 grams which to me is just right, and I
love it.

Same story here on multiple Logitech M705's. Batteries last 18-24
months, and that's with about 12-16 hours of use per day, (I really need
to step away from the computer a little more!)

VanguardLH likes to rant about the weight of a mouse, claiming that he
has to lift it repeatedly throughout the day. He's probably unaware that
he can adjust how far the pointer moves, thus reducing or eliminating
entirely the need to lift and reposition the mouse. Even so, I wish he'd
just admit to having a physical disability instead of making the more
general claim that a mouse is too heavy to lift occasionally. Maybe a
track ball would be more to his liking.

As for battery weight on the M705, and possibly other Logitech wireless
mice, you can run the mouse on a single AA if weight is an issue,
although I'm having a hard time understanding the whole weight/lifting
issue in the first place. I'm sure I'd be much more understanding if I
suffered from the same physical disability that he does, so my apologies
for that.

On 05/30/2018 10:11 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 30 May 2018 09:37:58 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

On 05/30/2018 8:21 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , VanguardLH
wrote:


*you* cited this mouse:
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/bluetooth-mouse-m557?crid=7
Mouse Weight (including battery): 3.77 oz (107 g)

see where it says 'including battery'? guess what that means. take as
much time as you need.

Yep, my mistake, missed that, and admit it. 107 grams with batteries
for the Bluetooth mouse of similar size compared to my 59 gram wired
M100 mouse (not the 90 grams spec'ed). Wired is still 45% lighter when
comparing apples to apples, not apples to oranges with your mini-mouse
mismatched example. It would be tough to carry 10 normal passenger
sized car tires (250 pounds) but much easier to carry 10 wheelbarrow
tires (62 pounds). The wired mouse's weight includes the cable. Um,
when you look at a wired mouse, what is holding it up? Yep, the desk.

you are cherry picking to fit your agenda.

wireless and wired mice span an overlapping range of weights.

it's *not* correct that a wireless mouse is always heavier than a wired
mouse. some are, some are not. there are wired mice that are in the
150g range.

the difference is also tens of grams, not hundreds of pounds, so your
analogy fails. it isn't anything anyone would notice in normal use.



I gave up on wireless mice awhile ago. Never lasted long enough when in
constant use all day long and then the evenings, too. Logitech, IBM,
Microsoft, This is like LED bulbs claiming a 10-year lifespan but only
if they are used 3 hours maximum per day. Guess during the winter you
are expected to sit in the dark the rest of the 9 nighttime hours.

it's nothing like that at all. another bogus analogy.

Despite their claims for lifespan, the wireless mice were dying after 3
to 4 days. The problem is they get flaky before they die. They don't
just instantly stop functioning.

then you had incredibly ****ty wireless mice and/or ****ty batteries.

these claim two *years* on a single battery:
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/m330-silent-plus
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/m720-triathlon


My Logitech wireless M510 runs well over a year on good Panasonic
alkaline AA cells, It weighs 130 grams which to me is just right, and I
love it.

Same story here on multiple Logitech M705's. Batteries last 18-24
months, and that's with about 12-16 hours of use per day, (I really need
to step away from the computer a little more!)

VanguardLH likes to rant about the weight of a mouse, claiming that he
has to lift it repeatedly throughout the day. He's probably unaware that
he can adjust how far the pointer moves, thus reducing or eliminating
entirely the need to lift and reposition the mouse. Even so, I wish he'd
just admit to having a physical disability instead of making the more
general claim that a mouse is too heavy to lift occasionally. Maybe a
track ball would be more to his liking.

As for battery weight on the M705, and possibly other Logitech wireless
mice, you can run the mouse on a single AA if weight is an issue,
although I'm having a hard time understanding the whole weight/lifting
issue in the first place. I'm sure I'd be much more understanding if I
suffered from the same physical disability that he does, so my apologies
for that.


yeah, I adjust my mouse settings also and never have to lift my mouse
off of the mouse pad.

Rene

nospam wrote:

In article , VanguardLH
wrote:


*you* cited this mouse:
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/bluetooth-mouse-m557?crid=7
Mouse Weight (including battery): 3.77 oz (107 g)

see where it says 'including battery'? guess what that means. take as
much time as you need.

Yep, my mistake, missed that, and admit it. 107 grams with batteries
for the Bluetooth mouse of similar size compared to my 59 gram wired
M100 mouse (not the 90 grams spec'ed). Wired is still 45% lighter when
comparing apples to apples, not apples to oranges with your mini-mouse
mismatched example. It would be tough to carry 10 normal passenger
sized car tires (250 pounds) but much easier to carry 10 wheelbarrow
tires (62 pounds). The wired mouse's weight includes the cable. Um,
when you look at a wired mouse, what is holding it up? Yep, the desk.

you are cherry picking to fit your agenda.

wireless and wired mice span an overlapping range of weights.

it's *not* correct that a wireless mouse is always heavier than a wired
mouse. some are, some are not. there are wired mice that are in the
150g range.

the difference is also tens of grams, not hundreds of pounds, so your
analogy fails. it isn't anything anyone would notice in normal use.

I gave up on wireless mice awhile ago. Never lasted long enough when in
constant use all day long and then the evenings, too. Logitech, IBM,
Microsoft, This is like LED bulbs claiming a 10-year lifespan but only
if they are used 3 hours maximum per day. Guess during the winter you
are expected to sit in the dark the rest of the 9 nighttime hours.

it's nothing like that at all. another bogus analogy.

Despite their claims for lifespan, the wireless mice were dying after 3
to 4 days. The problem is they get flaky before they die. They don't
just instantly stop functioning.

then you had incredibly ****ty wireless mice and/or ****ty batteries.

these claim two *years* on a single battery:
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/m330-silent-plus
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/m720-triathlon

So instead of answering my inquiry if you have any Bluetooth mice (after
all, you were the one asking if I had any), you divert. Don't have a
Bluetooth mouse to measure its mouse-only weight? Don't have a scale?

On 05/30/2018 2:10 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
nospam wrote:

In article , VanguardLH
wrote:


*you* cited this mouse:
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/bluetooth-mouse-m557?crid=7
Mouse Weight (including battery): 3.77 oz (107 g)

see where it says 'including battery'? guess what that means. take as
much time as you need.

Yep, my mistake, missed that, and admit it. 107 grams with batteries
for the Bluetooth mouse of similar size compared to my 59 gram wired
M100 mouse (not the 90 grams spec'ed). Wired is still 45% lighter when
comparing apples to apples, not apples to oranges with your mini-mouse
mismatched example. It would be tough to carry 10 normal passenger
sized car tires (250 pounds) but much easier to carry 10 wheelbarrow
tires (62 pounds). The wired mouse's weight includes the cable. Um,
when you look at a wired mouse, what is holding it up? Yep, the desk.

you are cherry picking to fit your agenda.

wireless and wired mice span an overlapping range of weights.

it's *not* correct that a wireless mouse is always heavier than a wired
mouse. some are, some are not. there are wired mice that are in the
150g range.

the difference is also tens of grams, not hundreds of pounds, so your
analogy fails. it isn't anything anyone would notice in normal use.

I gave up on wireless mice awhile ago. Never lasted long enough when in
constant use all day long and then the evenings, too. Logitech, IBM,
Microsoft, This is like LED bulbs claiming a 10-year lifespan but only
if they are used 3 hours maximum per day. Guess during the winter you
are expected to sit in the dark the rest of the 9 nighttime hours.

it's nothing like that at all. another bogus analogy.

Despite their claims for lifespan, the wireless mice were dying after 3
to 4 days. The problem is they get flaky before they die. They don't
just instantly stop functioning.

then you had incredibly ****ty wireless mice and/or ****ty batteries.

these claim two *years* on a single battery:
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/m330-silent-plus
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/m720-triathlon

So instead of answering my inquiry if you have any Bluetooth mice (after
all, you were the one asking if I had any), you divert. Don't have a
Bluetooth mouse to measure its mouse-only weight? Don't have a scale?


Don't know about nospam but I have a Logitech M557 Bluetooth mouse that
weighs in at 103 grams with battery. Don't like it near as much as the M510.

Rene

Frank Slootweg wrote:

a laptop: Having Bluetooth - i.e. somewhat new

Eh? My Dell D800 had internal bluetooth (which I used for mouse) and
that must have been ~15 years ago...

Char Jackson wrote:

VanguardLH likes to rant about the weight of a mouse, claiming that he
has to lift it repeatedly throughout the day.

What I detest are overt liars.

He's probably unaware that
he can adjust how far the pointer moves, thus reducing or eliminating
entirely the need to lift and reposition the mouse. Even so, I wish he'd
just admit to having a physical disability instead of making the more
general claim that a mouse is too heavy to lift occasionally.

Nope, no handicap other than obviously I have to use my computer a hell
of lot more hours than you and I have a normal-sized mousepad instead of
one the size of the top of a desk. So what do you do when the mouse
hits the end of your mousepad (or usable free space on your desk)? You
up the acceleration again to make it even more difficult zeroing in the
mouse cursor where you want it? Acceleration is handy but that requires
accelerated movement of the mouse. That won't help when you are using
the mouse linearly. Yes, I can also speed up the linear tracking at the
expense of accuracy. Even with accelerated and/or faster tracking, it
is easier to flick around something lighter than heavier. You're aren't
a toddler, so you already know that. The only handicaps that I have
a disbelief in users claiming they never or rarely lift the mouse
(when I've seen and experienced otherwise) and getting irked when users
overtly lie to deny physics by claiming a heavier mouse is easier to
push around.

I was trying to keep everything equal between wired and Bluetooth mice,
like size, so the only difference was the addition of the radio inside.
The idea was to compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges, like
normal to miniature mice. The rest of the mouse isn't different: the
electronics or mechanics to report a change in mouse position is the
same in both, just the radio is different. Having a cable is different,
too, but I've never seen anyone lifting the entire cable or even a major
portion of it to lift-and-move the mouse. Some user despise a cord due
to the torque it applies to the mouse when the cord hits something while
moving the mouse. I have sufficient free desk space so the cord doesn't
smack into anything when moving the mouse. If you don't have space for
the cord to move freely then, yes, a cordless mouse is probably
preferred. I'm very neat. Lots of users are very cluttered.

I've used Bluetooth and currently use RF and wired mice. The cordless
mice are handy when I'm mobile, like with my laptops (I dislike those
touchpads). My desktop PC isn't moving around. I don't sit in the
recliner while using my PC over on the desk. I sit at my desk to use
the desktop PC. For many-hours-per-day of constant use of the computer
day after day, the wired mouse weighs less to reduce fatigue on my pinky
for lifting (so I don't have to use a insane level of acceleration -
which provides no help for linear movement - or severely speedup the
linear tracking that ends up with lots of overshooting) and its
lightweight is easier to push around on the pad. The PC isn't going
anywhere so I don't need mobile mice or keyboards. The laptops are
infrequently used and far shorter session, so mouse weight isn't much of
an issue but that doesn't have me lying that a mouse never needs lifting
or a heavier mouse is easier to move.

Maybe a track ball would be more to his liking.

The problem there is smooth rolling trackballs will jump off the rollers
when spun fast and those that don't have too much friction. Those that
use thumb on the ball are poorly designed because the thumb is not as
flexible as the index and middle fingers. Since trackballs are inverted
mechanical mice, their rollers get dirty so movement will skip. I've
had trackball users complain about flaky positioning, cleaned their
trackball, and they remark that they forget it was a white ball instead
of gray. I suppose next you'll suggest a pen and tablet (which are
great when drawing) but that doesn't obviate the need to lift the pen.

On Wed, 30 May 2018 17:56:35 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:

VanguardLH likes to rant about the weight of a mouse, claiming that he
has to lift it repeatedly throughout the day.

What I detest are overt liars.

That seems to be a non sequitur. Where did overt liars enter the
discussion? Never mind, I don't think it's worth exploring.

He's probably unaware that
he can adjust how far the pointer moves, thus reducing or eliminating
entirely the need to lift and reposition the mouse. Even so, I wish he'd
just admit to having a physical disability instead of making the more
general claim that a mouse is too heavy to lift occasionally.

Nope, no handicap

I'm quite surprised to hear that. I don't think I believe it. Without a
disability, you wouldn't be this rabid about using a mouse.

other than obviously I have to use my computer a hell
of lot more hours than you

I've already said that I use my computer 12-16 hours most days. What is
"a hell of a lot more hours" than that? Please keep it reasonable. If
you claim to be using your computer 24 hours per day I might not believe
you.

and I have a normal-sized mousepad instead of
one the size of the top of a desk.

I assume nearly everyone has a normal-sized mouse pad. You're not being
persecuted in any way. I see no need for envy.

So what do you do when the mouse
hits the end of your mousepad (or usable free space on your desk)?

I recenter it on the pad. It's hard to say how often that happens since
it's quite irregular, but I'd say it averages out to once a week, maybe
less. Given that I might be subconsciously moving it from time to time,
let's be extra generous and say it happens once a day. My muscles seem
to be tolerating that just fine. I don't notice any fatigue.

You see, a mouse isn't heavy by any human standards, whether it's wired
or wireless. My M705 with two AA cells certainly isn't heavy. As for
becoming exhausted from pushing it around, surely you jest. Every mouse
I've seen has slick nylon pads on the bottom, making movement
indistinguishable from effortless. I can literally push my mouse with a
feather.

What could you possibly be doing with your mouse, where pushing it
around tires you out, or where periodically lifting it to recenter it on
your mousepad fatigues your arm/hand/finger? I'm sure I have no idea,
since it's not anywhere near normal for an adult human, but I'd love to
observe you for a bit to see what's going on. If your mouse feels heavy
and you lift it frequently, you'll quickly build muscle to accommodate
it. But yet, your rant about mice has been going on for years.

My guess is that you have an undisclosed or undiagnosed physical
disability, (there's no shame in that!), or you're simply exaggerating
to a huge degree. If it's the latter, I'd have to ask why.

I snipped the rest of your post because it looked like a rehash of your
earlier posts in this thread.

Just a couple of questions.

1) What size monitor?

2) Multiple monitors?

I ask because my setup using 1 24" diag. monitor with a Logitech M510
Bluetooth mouse (132g with batteries) allows me the control I need within
the confines os a mousepad (I don't use a pad, optical mice usually don't
need one).

In my case, it doesn't really matter how heavy the mouse is. Whatever works
for you.

In article , says...
have you tried
using a better USB cable, especially a shielded USB cable?

Ham radio operators (I'm one) have a drawer filled with ferrite chokes.
I have them deployed on just about every cable. I doesn't seem to make
much of a difference with the disk - its cable came without a choke. I
suspect the radiation is from the drive itself. It's in a plastic case.
(WD Passport)