Can it be said that a locical drive is a virtual drive?

"D.T" wrote:
Can it be said that a locical drive is a virtual drive?

First, what is a logical drive? Or do you mean
"logical disk"?

*TimDaniels*

A full guide to XP drive management and terminolgy.

Windows XP supports up to four partitions per hard disk.
Windows XP supports two main partition TYPES: Primary and Extended.
A primary partition is one from which one can boot up an Operating System.
All four partitions can be designated as Primary [or bootable, should one
wish to install more than one Operating System, such as XP, 98, Linux etc].
One primary partition at a time must be marked as ‘Active’ designating it as
the one from which the computer will boot: in almost all cases this should be
the ‘C-Drive’.
One partition can be allocated as an Extended Partition. These differ in
that they are not formatted with a file system or assigned a specific drive
letter [‘D’, thru to ‘Z’].
An Extended Partition is then a dedicated area of disk space in which one
can then create a number of Logical Drives.
Logical Drives are similar to primary partitions in that they are
individually formatted with a file system and assigned a drive letter: thus
an extended partition can have an unlimited number of Logical Drives each
with its own drive letter, none of the Logical drives is bootable.
Use for logical drives can be to assign a specific drive letter [logical
drive] for each file type [word document, email, MP3] or on a computer with
many users, one or more logical drive per user.
Windows XP supports three file systems NTFS, FAT32 and FAT [the latter 2
being introduced with earlier Windows systems].
Of the file systems, NTFS is the most versatile and the newest, with a 32
bit address structure which gives it the ability to access the very large
disk drives available now [200Gb drives generally available] and in the
future.
Limitations for each file system a
FAT – only addresses up to 4Gb of disk space [Windows XP, 95 and earlier
Windows versions only]
FAT32 - only addresses up to 32Gb of disk space [Windows XP, Me 98 and 95
Second Edition]
NTFS - addresses up to 2,000Gb of disk space [Windows XP]
One would use a partitioned hard drive formatted as FAT32 or FAT should one
wish to accommodate a dual boot system [running XP or an earlier Operating
System].
Should one have Windows XP Pro, a further benefit of NTFS is that files can
be encrypted.


"Timothy Daniels" wrote:


"D.T" wrote:
Can it be said that a locical drive is a virtual drive?

First, what is a logical drive? Or do you mean
"logical disk"?

*TimDaniels*

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 04:05:03 -0800, BAR
wrote:

A full guide to XP drive management and terminolgy.

Windows XP supports up to four partitions per hard disk.

Well I guess I broke that rule since I currently have (5) partitions
(F: G: H: I J on my SATA drive in my Windows XP system. Or does this
only apply to the first drive?

Windows XP supports two main partition TYPES: Primary and Extended.
A primary partition is one from which one can boot up an Operating System.
All four partitions can be designated as Primary [or bootable, should one
wish to install more than one Operating System, such as XP, 98, Linux etc].
One primary partition at a time must be marked as ‘Active’ designating it as
the one from which the computer will boot: in almost all cases this should be
the ‘C-Drive’.
One partition can be allocated as an Extended Partition. These differ in
that they are not formatted with a file system or assigned a specific drive
letter [‘D’, thru to ‘Z’].
An Extended Partition is then a dedicated area of disk space in which one
can then create a number of Logical Drives.
Logical Drives are similar to primary partitions in that they are
individually formatted with a file system and assigned a drive letter: thus
an extended partition can have an unlimited number of Logical Drives each
with its own drive letter, none of the Logical drives is bootable.
Use for logical drives can be to assign a specific drive letter [logical
drive] for each file type [word document, email, MP3] or on a computer with
many users, one or more logical drive per user.
Windows XP supports three file systems NTFS, FAT32 and FAT [the latter 2
being introduced with earlier Windows systems].
Of the file systems, NTFS is the most versatile and the newest, with a 32
bit address structure which gives it the ability to access the very large
disk drives available now [200Gb drives generally available] and in the
future.
Limitations for each file system a
FAT – only addresses up to 4Gb of disk space [Windows XP, 95 and earlier
Windows versions only]
FAT32 - only addresses up to 32Gb of disk space [Windows XP, Me 98 and 95
Second Edition]
NTFS - addresses up to 2,000Gb of disk space [Windows XP]
One would use a partitioned hard drive formatted as FAT32 or FAT should one
wish to accommodate a dual boot system [running XP or an earlier Operating
System].
Should one have Windows XP Pro, a further benefit of NTFS is that files can
be encrypted.


"Timothy Daniels" wrote:


"D.T" wrote:
Can it be said that a locical drive is a virtual drive?

First, what is a logical drive? Or do you mean
"logical disk"?

*TimDaniels*

Only 4 PRIMARY partitions. I suspect you have 2, a Primary, and an
Extended which has been sliced in to 4 logicals.

wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 04:05:03 -0800, BAR
wrote:


A full guide to XP drive management and terminolgy.

Windows XP supports up to four partitions per hard disk.


Well I guess I broke that rule since I currently have (5) partitions
(F: G: H: I J on my SATA drive in my Windows XP system. Or does this
only apply to the first drive?

Hi, Wooly.Bully.

No. Each sector on a physical drive holds 512 bytes. The first physical
sector on each HDD (SATA or otherwise) holds the MBR (Master Boot Record -
about 400 bytes of code) plus the Partition Table for that HDD. The
partition table is only 64 bytes long: only 16 bytes for each of 4 possible
partitions. There's no room to put a 5th entry in the partition table.

But, if one of those partitions is an "extended partition", the first
physical sector of that extended partition will contain the "Extended
Partition Table". This table can contain entries for multiple "logical
drives" within the extended partition. Each of these logical drives can be
assigned a "drive letter", just like a primary partition. Each can be
formatted (FAT, FAT32 or NTFS) independently of other logical drives or
primary partitions. Each logical drive and each primary partition is a
"volume".

Since a logical drive is assigned a "drive" letter (just like a primary
partition) and formatted (just like a primary partition), it is often
referred to as a "drive" or a "partition". We often say that we "format a
hard drive", but that is not really accurate. First we create one or more
primary partitions and/or logical drives and then we format those volumes,
not the physical drive. As Abe Lincoln is said to have said, "Calling a
tail a leg don't make it a leg; a dog still has only 4 legs, even if you
call a tail a leg."

And your HD doesn't have 5 partitions, even if you call a logical drive a
partition. ;^}

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 04:05:03 -0800, BAR
wrote:

A full guide to XP drive management and terminolgy.

Windows XP supports up to four partitions per hard disk.

Well I guess I broke that rule since I currently have (5) partitions
(F: G: H: I J on my SATA drive in my Windows XP system. Or does this
only apply to the first drive?

Windows XP supports two main partition TYPES: Primary and Extended.
A primary partition is one from which one can boot up an Operating System.
All four partitions can be designated as Primary [or bootable, should one
wish to install more than one Operating System, such as XP, 98, Linux
etc].
One primary partition at a time must be marked as 'Active' designating it
as
the one from which the computer will boot: in almost all cases this should
be
the 'C-Drive'.
One partition can be allocated as an Extended Partition. These differ in
that they are not formatted with a file system or assigned a specific
drive
letter ['D', thru to 'Z'].
An Extended Partition is then a dedicated area of disk space in which one
can then create a number of Logical Drives.
Logical Drives are similar to primary partitions in that they are
individually formatted with a file system and assigned a drive letter:
thus
an extended partition can have an unlimited number of Logical Drives each
with its own drive letter, none of the Logical drives is bootable.
Use for logical drives can be to assign a specific drive letter [logical
drive] for each file type [word document, email, MP3] or on a computer
with
many users, one or more logical drive per user.
Windows XP supports three file systems NTFS, FAT32 and FAT [the latter 2
being introduced with earlier Windows systems].
Of the file systems, NTFS is the most versatile and the newest, with a 32
bit address structure which gives it the ability to access the very large
disk drives available now [200Gb drives generally available] and in the
future.
Limitations for each file system a
FAT - only addresses up to 4Gb of disk space [Windows XP, 95 and earlier
Windows versions only]
FAT32 - only addresses up to 32Gb of disk space [Windows XP, Me 98 and 95
Second Edition]
NTFS - addresses up to 2,000Gb of disk space [Windows XP]
One would use a partitioned hard drive formatted as FAT32 or FAT should
one
wish to accommodate a dual boot system [running XP or an earlier Operating
System].
Should one have Windows XP Pro, a further benefit of NTFS is that files
can
be encrypted.


"Timothy Daniels" wrote:


"D.T" wrote:
Can it be said that a locical drive is a virtual drive?

First, what is a logical drive? Or do you mean
"logical disk"?

*TimDaniels*

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:56:57 -0600, Bob I wrote:

Only 4 PRIMARY partitions. I suspect you have 2, a Primary, and an
Extended which has been sliced in to 4 logicals.

You're right. I should read closer. They are logical, but I'm not.


wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 04:05:03 -0800, BAR
wrote:


A full guide to XP drive management and terminolgy.

Windows XP supports up to four partitions per hard disk.


Well I guess I broke that rule since I currently have (5) partitions
(F: G: H: I J on my SATA drive in my Windows XP system. Or does this
only apply to the first drive?

No. They are two different animals.

--
Walter Clayton
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
http://www.dts-l.org


"D.T" wrote in message
...

Thanks for the clarification of logical drives being sections of an
extended partition.

But also keep in mind that an OS can be loaded from a logical
drive. The "active" partition (which must be a Primary partition)
must contain the boot manager and loader, but the boot menu
can "point to" a logical drive (i.e. partition) from which the OS is
to be loaded. So your phrase "from which the computer will boot"
does not necessarily mean "from which the OS will be loaded",
but rather "where the boot manager and loader are to be found".

*TimDaniels*

"BAR" wrote:
A full guide to XP drive management and terminolgy.

Windows XP supports up to four partitions per hard disk.
Windows XP supports two main partition TYPES: Primary and Extended.
A primary partition is one from which one can boot up an Operating System.
All four partitions can be designated as Primary [or bootable, should one
wish to install more than one Operating System, such as XP, 98, Linux etc].
One primary partition at a time must be marked as ‘Active’ designating it as
the one from which the computer will boot: in almost all cases this should be
the ‘C-Drive’.
One partition can be allocated as an Extended Partition. These differ in
that they are not formatted with a file system or assigned a specific drive
letter [‘D’, thru to ‘Z’].
An Extended Partition is then a dedicated area of disk space in which one
can then create a number of Logical Drives.
Logical Drives are similar to primary partitions in that they are
individually formatted with a file system and assigned a drive letter: thus
an extended partition can have an unlimited number of Logical Drives each
with its own drive letter, none of the Logical drives is bootable.
Use for logical drives can be to assign a specific drive letter [logical
drive] for each file type [word document, email, MP3] or on a computer with
many users, one or more logical drive per user.
Windows XP supports three file systems NTFS, FAT32 and FAT [the latter 2
being introduced with earlier Windows systems].
Of the file systems, NTFS is the most versatile and the newest, with a 32
bit address structure which gives it the ability to access the very large
disk drives available now [200Gb drives generally available] and in the
future.
Limitations for each file system a
FAT – only addresses up to 4Gb of disk space [Windows XP, 95 and earlier
Windows versions only]
FAT32 - only addresses up to 32Gb of disk space [Windows XP, Me 98 and 95
Second Edition]
NTFS - addresses up to 2,000Gb of disk space [Windows XP]
One would use a partitioned hard drive formatted as FAT32 or FAT should one
wish to accommodate a dual boot system [running XP or an earlier Operating
System].
Should one have Windows XP Pro, a further benefit of NTFS is that files can
be encrypted.


"Timothy Daniels" wrote:


"D.T" wrote:
Can it be said that a locical drive is a virtual drive?

First, what is a logical drive? Or do you mean
"logical disk"?

*TimDaniels*

Bob I: put on your glasses and read carefully: in my text was ' thus
an extended partition can have an unlimited number of Logical Drives each '.

"Bob I" wrote:

Only 4 PRIMARY partitions. I suspect you have 2, a Primary, and an
Extended which has been sliced in to 4 logicals.

wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 04:05:03 -0800, BAR
wrote:


A full guide to XP drive management and terminolgy.

Windows XP supports up to four partitions per hard disk.


Well I guess I broke that rule since I currently have (5) partitions
(F: G: H: I J on my SATA drive in my Windows XP system. Or does this
only apply to the first drive?

"Timothy Daniels" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the clarification of logical drives being sections of an
extended partition.

Well BAR has some info incorrect:

BAR said:

Windows XP supports three file systems NTFS, FAT32 and FAT [the latter 2
being introduced with earlier Windows systems].

FAT (File Allocation table) is just the acromyn for the different size
possibilities using FAT. They are FAT12, FAT16, and FAT32, IOWs, there isn't
a common size called just FAT, and FAT32.

BAR said:

FAT - only addresses up to 4Gb of disk space [Windows XP, 95 and earlier
Windows versions only]

He means FAT16, which can only be installed on volumes up to 2Gs (referenced
below with "limitation" links).

BAR said:

Windows XP supports up to four partitions per hard disk.

This is somewhat wrong, XP on any one hard drive, can support only four
*primary*
partitions at a time, but if one e.g. had 3 primary, then they can have
more logical drives in an extended partition. But he does
contradict this statement in the rest of his post, with the
extended/logical drive info.

BAR said:

FAT32 - only addresses up to 32Gb of disk space [Windows XP, Me 98 and 95
Second Edition]

Again, this is wrong, but I am guessing he is stating how XP (as well as
2000), in itself
using its installation utility, only will format, and install on a 32g
FAT32 partition. FAT32 in itself, and handle volumes up to 2000gigs. But XP
can install on a partition larger than 32gigs, if one formats (ala a 98
bootdisk) that partition to a larger size, before using the XP install disk.
As far as real size limits using the OSes mentioned, it would be a 127gig
(binary) max partition.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/184006


Here are a few references to size limitations using the various file
formats:

Size Limitations in NTFS and FAT File Systems
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...c_fil_tdrn.asp

FAT Sizes: FAT12, FAT16 and FAT32
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/file/partSizes-c.html


But also keep in mind that an OS can be loaded from a logical
drive. The "active" partition (which must be a Primary partition)
must contain the boot manager and loader, but the boot menu
can "point to" a logical drive (i.e. partition) from which the OS is
to be loaded. So your phrase "from which the computer will boot"
does not necessarily mean "from which the OS will be loaded",
but rather "where the boot manager and loader are to be found".

This is correct in the context you use, but you left out what BAR stated in
the whole scheme, which was:

A primary partition is one from which one can boot up an Operating
System.

This is true, since he said *an* operating system, as you have to have a
Primary drive to do so, which will contain the bootloader. But the
explanation of how it works from there on is true from your point. But I
will address one other thing BAR stated, which again is untrue in its
context

Logical Drives are similar to primary partitions in that they are
individually formatted with a file system and assigned a drive letter:
thus
an extended partition can have an unlimited number of Logical Drives each
with its own drive letter, none of the Logical drives is bootable.

Logical drives are bootable, or else dual-boot scenarios would not be
possible. He just needs to use the context correctly, or else taken as it is
written would negate bootable logical drives. IOWs, if you have a dual-boot
setup (Primary/logical), you can select after the BIOS post, to what OS you
want to boot, hence it is bootable; it simply doesn't contain the
bootloader, which is at the beginning of the Primary partition.

Bob called you correctly as noted from the second line in your previous post
of which you said, "Windows XP supports up to four partitions per hard
disk.", and if you read your previous post further, you even contradict
yourself. Some of your other info is also worng, as I noted to Tim.

"BAR" wrote in message
...
Bob I: put on your glasses and read carefully: in my text was ' thus
an extended partition can have an unlimited number of Logical Drives each
'.

"Bob I" wrote:

Only 4 PRIMARY partitions. I suspect you have 2, a Primary, and an
Extended which has been sliced in to 4 logicals.

wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 04:05:03 -0800, BAR
wrote:


A full guide to XP drive management and terminolgy.

Windows XP supports up to four partitions per hard disk.


Well I guess I broke that rule since I currently have (5) partitions
(F: G: H: I J on my SATA drive in my Windows XP system. Or does this
only apply to the first drive?

I "replied" to wooly.bully and corrected his wrong impression of
"partitions vs. logical drives", PERHAPS YOU should read?

BAR wrote:

Bob I: put on your glasses and read carefully: in my text was ' thus
an extended partition can have an unlimited number of Logical Drives each '.

"Bob I" wrote:


Only 4 PRIMARY partitions. I suspect you have 2, a Primary, and an
Extended which has been sliced in to 4 logicals.

wrote:


On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 04:05:03 -0800, BAR
wrote:



A full guide to XP drive management and terminolgy.

Windows XP supports up to four partitions per hard disk.


Well I guess I broke that rule since I currently have (5) partitions
(F: G: H: I J on my SATA drive in my Windows XP system. Or does this
only apply to the first drive?

LOL, this thread is screwed into a cocked hat, I even attributed your reply
to BAR as wooly's LOL. ( I need to stop using google beta groups for
referencing LOL).

But anyway, to be clear on things; Windows (at least from what I know from
95 to now) can have 3 primaries with one extended w/logical drives, or just
simply four primaries, on one hard drive. Some 3rd party partition managers
will allow you create as many primary drives as you please, BootIt NG comes
to mind with this scenario.

"Bob I" wrote in message
...
I "replied" to wooly.bully and corrected his wrong impression of
"partitions vs. logical drives", PERHAPS YOU should read?

BAR wrote:

Bob I: put on your glasses and read carefully: in my text was ' thus an
extended partition can have an unlimited number of Logical Drives each '.

"Bob I" wrote:


Only 4 PRIMARY partitions. I suspect you have 2, a Primary, and an
Extended which has been sliced in to 4 logicals.

wrote:


On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 04:05:03 -0800, BAR
wrote:



A full guide to XP drive management and terminolgy.

Windows XP supports up to four partitions per hard disk.


Well I guess I broke that rule since I currently have (5) partitions
(F: G: H: I J on my SATA drive in my Windows XP system. Or does this
only apply to the first drive?

Hi, Tom - and all.

One big problem in discussing this is the several ambiguous meanings of some
terms, such as "drive", "partition" - and "boot". :(

As many writers have commented, "We BOOT from the SYSTEM partition and keep
the operating SYSTEM files in the BOOT volume." Microsoft didn't invent
this terminology, but continues to use it.

The boot process must begin in the System Partition, which must be on the
boot device (typically the master HD on the primary IDE controller); this
must be the Active (bootable) partition, which means it must be a Primary
Partition. This partition must have the proper NT-style Boot Sector, and 3
files (NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini) must be in the Root of that
partition. (In some installations, a few other files, such as NTBOOTDD.SYS,
are required, but these are not typical.)

All the rest of Windows (all recent versions, at least) must be in the Boot
Folder in the Boot Volume. The Boot Folder is named \Windows, by default.
(Except in WinNT and Win2K, where the default is \WinNT; in an upgrade
installation, the new Windows installation inherits the name of the earlier
version, so some WinXP boot folders are named \WinNT.) This Boot Folder -
and its many subfolders - hold the GB or so of WinXP files.

The Boot Volume can be any volume, either a primary partition or a logical
drive, on any HD in the computer. (Maybe it could also be on an external HD
or a rewritable CD/DVD - or even a very large USB flash drive, but I don't
know about that.) The Boot Volume may share the System Partition - and
typically does. There should be a separate Boot Volume for each
installation of Windows; Microsoft (and nearly all other gurus) strongly
advise against putting two Windows installations into a single volume.

Logical drives are bootable, or else dual-boot scenarios would not be
possible. He just needs to use the context correctly, or else taken as it
is written would negate bootable logical drives. IOWs, if you have a
dual-boot setup (Primary/logical), you can select after the BIOS post, to
what OS you want to boot, hence it is bootable; it simply doesn't contain
the bootloader, which is at the beginning of the Primary partition.

Logical drives are not bootable. A dual-boot must start in the System
Partition (which must be a Primary Partition). But C:\Boot.ini will point
to the Boot Folder, which may very well be in a logical drive. (In my own
system, C: is a small FAT-formatted primary partition on my IBM SCSI HD; my
main WinXP is in D:\Windows, an NTFS-formatted logical drive in the extended
partition on that SCSI HD; other Windows installations are in F:, L:, and
X:, all logical drives in extended partitions on my two IDE HDs and all
NTFS. My boot process starts with C:\NTLDR and then branches to
D:\Windows - or wherever.)

A logical drive can be a "Boot Volume" - but you can't boot from it. :(

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP

"Tom" wrote in message
...

"Timothy Daniels" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the clarification of logical drives being sections of an
extended partition.

Well BAR has some info incorrect:

BAR said:

Windows XP supports three file systems NTFS, FAT32 and FAT [the latter 2
being introduced with earlier Windows systems].

FAT (File Allocation table) is just the acromyn for the different size
possibilities using FAT. They are FAT12, FAT16, and FAT32, IOWs, there
isn't a common size called just FAT, and FAT32.

BAR said:

FAT - only addresses up to 4Gb of disk space [Windows XP, 95 and earlier
Windows versions only]

He means FAT16, which can only be installed on volumes up to 2Gs
(referenced below with "limitation" links).

BAR said:

Windows XP supports up to four partitions per hard disk.

This is somewhat wrong, XP on any one hard drive, can support only four
*primary*
partitions at a time, but if one e.g. had 3 primary, then they can have
more logical drives in an extended partition. But he does
contradict this statement in the rest of his post, with the
extended/logical drive info.

BAR said:

FAT32 - only addresses up to 32Gb of disk space [Windows XP, Me 98 and
95
Second Edition]

Again, this is wrong, but I am guessing he is stating how XP (as well as
2000), in itself
using its installation utility, only will format, and install on a 32g
FAT32 partition. FAT32 in itself, and handle volumes up to 2000gigs. But
XP can install on a partition larger than 32gigs, if one formats (ala a 98
bootdisk) that partition to a larger size, before using the XP install
disk. As far as real size limits using the OSes mentioned, it would be a
127gig (binary) max partition.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/184006


Here are a few references to size limitations using the various file
formats:

Size Limitations in NTFS and FAT File Systems
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...c_fil_tdrn.asp

FAT Sizes: FAT12, FAT16 and FAT32
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/file/partSizes-c.html


But also keep in mind that an OS can be loaded from a logical
drive. The "active" partition (which must be a Primary partition)
must contain the boot manager and loader, but the boot menu
can "point to" a logical drive (i.e. partition) from which the OS is
to be loaded. So your phrase "from which the computer will boot"
does not necessarily mean "from which the OS will be loaded",
but rather "where the boot manager and loader are to be found".

This is correct in the context you use, but you left out what BAR stated
in the whole scheme, which was:

A primary partition is one from which one can boot up an Operating
System.

This is true, since he said *an* operating system, as you have to have a
Primary drive to do so, which will contain the bootloader. But the
explanation of how it works from there on is true from your point. But I
will address one other thing BAR stated, which again is untrue in its
context

Logical Drives are similar to primary partitions in that they are
individually formatted with a file system and assigned a drive letter:
thus
an extended partition can have an unlimited number of Logical Drives
each
with its own drive letter, none of the Logical drives is bootable.

Logical drives are bootable, or else dual-boot scenarios would not be
possible. He just needs to use the context correctly, or else taken as it
is written would negate bootable logical drives. IOWs, if you have a
dual-boot setup (Primary/logical), you can select after the BIOS post, to
what OS you want to boot, hence it is bootable; it simply doesn't contain
the bootloader, which is at the beginning of the Primary partition.