Regarding Free Windows 10 for 12 Months

On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 09:11:54 -0400, Paul wrote:

How is activation managed ? Your Win7SP1 qualifying key, plus a
hardware hash (effectively your NIC MAC address) are uploaded
to Microsoft. In return, Microsoft sends an activation record
of some sort, back to the PC doing the upgrade. Now, it's activated.

That entry on the Microsoft server, is your "key". Any time
a machine with your exact hardware hash calls on the Microsoft
server, that activation record will be consulted.

Wouldn't it be funny if they used *only* the NIC MAC address, since that
piece of information is trivially easy to change/copy/clone/whatever. That
wasn't the case in the past though, and isn't likely to be the case now.
They'll use multiple pieces of information, probably with weighting factors,
so that minor changes can be accomplished without invalidating the license.

Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 09:11:54 -0400, Paul wrote:

How is activation managed ? Your Win7SP1 qualifying key, plus a
hardware hash (effectively your NIC MAC address) are uploaded
to Microsoft. In return, Microsoft sends an activation record
of some sort, back to the PC doing the upgrade. Now, it's activated.

That entry on the Microsoft server, is your "key". Any time
a machine with your exact hardware hash calls on the Microsoft
server, that activation record will be consulted.

Wouldn't it be funny if they used *only* the NIC MAC address, since that
piece of information is trivially easy to change/copy/clone/whatever. That
wasn't the case in the past though, and isn't likely to be the case now.
They'll use multiple pieces of information, probably with weighting factors,
so that minor changes can be accomplished without invalidating the license.


We might discover more as time goes by, if say a user
changes out a video card, or changes RAM amount, and
something happens to their "free" Win10.

Maybe Microsoft's phone support for these kinds
of issues will be flawless. They could feel the same
degree of obligation as they would feel if dealing
with an activation issue for the qualifying OS,
so concerns about hardware configuration over
time aren't a big deal.

Paul

On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 12:23:57 -0400, Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 09:11:54 -0400, Paul wrote:

How is activation managed ? Your Win7SP1 qualifying key, plus a
hardware hash (effectively your NIC MAC address) are uploaded
to Microsoft. In return, Microsoft sends an activation record
of some sort, back to the PC doing the upgrade. Now, it's activated.

That entry on the Microsoft server, is your "key". Any time
a machine with your exact hardware hash calls on the Microsoft
server, that activation record will be consulted.

Wouldn't it be funny if they used *only* the NIC MAC address, since that
piece of information is trivially easy to change/copy/clone/whatever. That
wasn't the case in the past though, and isn't likely to be the case now.
They'll use multiple pieces of information, probably with weighting factors,
so that minor changes can be accomplished without invalidating the license.


We might discover more as time goes by, if say a user
changes out a video card, or changes RAM amount, and
something happens to their "free" Win10.

Maybe Microsoft's phone support for these kinds
of issues will be flawless. They could feel the same
degree of obligation as they would feel if dealing
with an activation issue for the qualifying OS,
so concerns about hardware configuration over
time aren't a big deal.

That's pretty optimistic. :-)

On 8/9/2015 6:56 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 04:14:19 -0400, ". . .winston"
wrote:

SC Tom wrote on 08/08/2015 6:36 PM:


". . .winston" wrote in message
...
Ed Cryer wrote on 08/08/2015 1:45 PM:
Keith wrote:
The Windows 10 icon on my task bar has gone through "Reserve" to, just
now "Get W10" and I get a report saying, basically,my laptop is
"Good to
go" and there is no Guest account in W10 (I don't use it so it's
irrelevant. But, another nugget appeared:

"Why did I see a notification that I won't be able to restore factory
settings?

You'll see this message if the manufacturer set up your PC to run
from a
compressed Windows image file and included an option to restore factory
settings. After the upgrade, you won’t be able to restore factory
settings, but other recovery options will be available."

I'm running on a small Sony Vaio, no DVD and I expect that (I've had to
use it once) "restore factory settings" runs from a compressed image
file.
Are the "other recovery options will be available." available?

I do use Macrium Reflect (free) to write image files to my NAS - will
they be usable after 'upgrading' to W10?



I had the same when I put Win10 on my tablet. The thing that you'll
appreciate is that it offers me a return to Win8.1.
The removal of "factory settings" is occasioned by space limitations on
the HD. It's rather like on Android phones where "factory settings"
doesn't mean what it says on the can (space limitations prevents them
including an image of the original set-up).

After installing Win10 you have a month to restore.
And the Macrium Reflect images will be utilisable. Make sure you have a
Macrium restore disc.

Ed

After installing Win10 you have a month to restore **using the 'Go
Back' Win10 included feature. After a month the 'Go Back' option will
not be available since Win10 will automatically purge the files it
retained for performing the 'Go Back'

The inability to use the 'Go Back' feature does not preempt the
ability to use other restore type methods (Recovery disks provided by
the OEM or created by the user to return the device to factory
condition, 3rd party imaging tool that created a backup image to
external media or different drive prior to the upgrade, Windows 8.1
included Backup/Restore System Image created on external
media/different drive prior to the upgrade, etc.)

I think the question on that would be, if you restore from image after
30 days, will your newly restored old OS be able to be activated now
that Microsoft already has that system as being upgraded to Win10? Since
it hasn't been 30 days since it was released, the jury seems to still be
out on that verdict :-)

The sheer presence of the GoBack feature and the ability to return to
the prior and activated o/s used to upgrade to 10 is the reassurance
that the reverting to the prior o/s will yield an activated prior
o/s....i.e. if it didn't then GoBack would not be included
(Think about it g) - it's really easy to deduce.

*During the 30 day period*, yes, it's really easy to deduce. ;-)

But the question was, what happens after that? What happens to the
qualifying license after windows.old is gone, using windows.old as the
marker for the end of the 30 day period. The answer to that question isn't
as easy to deduce, which is why the jury is out. We need to see the 30 day
period elapse to see what happens, since Microsoft hasn't said anything
meaningful on the topic.

The ability to revert to a prior o/s with an activated license is
statistically independent of the Win10 upgrade and the license and
device footprint retained in the MSFT Store.

Exactly, and since MS hasn't provided concrete guidance, we're in a wait and
see mode.

Correct me if I'm wrong...
I have win7 installed by the vendor of the PC.
I have a license key that's the generic "activation not required"
key shared by
a zillion other devices from that vendor.
I upgraded to win 10.
If I go back to win7 by restoring a win7 image, how can they
invalidate my key? I don't think my system would even ask???
Yes?
No?

SC Tom wrote on 08/09/2015 8:09 AM:


". . .winston" wrote in message


The sheer presence of the GoBack feature and the ability to return to
the prior and activated o/s used to upgrade to 10 is the reassurance
that the reverting to the prior o/s will yield an activated prior
o/s....i.e. if it didn't then GoBack would not be included
(Think about it g) - it's really easy to deduce.

But you're still talking about being within the 30-day limit.

Both apply...before and after. MSFT isn't always clear, but 'that is
the meaning'


The 30 day limit and purging the files is central to a system status
changing over time..thus as time moves forward, the benefit to 'Go
Back' to o/s condition at the time of upgrade becomes less meaningful.

OK, now you're at day35 (hypothetically), and the GoBack feature is
disabled, and the old OS files have been purged, so now there is no
going back using the Win10 feature. What happens if NOW you decide you
don't like Win10, and wipe the HDD with an image you made of your drive
with the old OS? Are you going to have an activated version of Win8.1
(assuming that's where I started), or am I going to have to pay for it
again?

Win 8.1 will remain activated. It's statistically independent (think
orthoganally). Upgrading does not preempt the existance of the
qualifying prior o/s license for use if 10 is removed. Remove
10....you're good to go on 8.1


Since I couldn't go back using the Win10 feature, AFA Microsoft
knows, the Win10 upgrade is still active from the upgrade from Win8.1,
and now they're both supposedly installed/active. Will Microsoft's
license servers be able to eventually tell that, or am I going to be
stuck with an "illegal" copy of Win8.1? Since I upgraded from Win8.1 to
Win10, wouldn't that invalidate/de-activate my Win8.1 license?

Your license for 8.1 is valid (see above, remove 10, you're good to go
on 8.1)



--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience

Char Jackson wrote on 08/09/2015 9:56 AM:
On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 04:14:19 -0400, ". . .winston"
wrote:

SC Tom wrote on 08/08/2015 6:36 PM:


". . .winston" wrote in message
...
Ed Cryer wrote on 08/08/2015 1:45 PM:
Keith wrote:
The Windows 10 icon on my task bar has gone through "Reserve" to, just
now "Get W10" and I get a report saying, basically,my laptop is
"Good to
go" and there is no Guest account in W10 (I don't use it so it's
irrelevant. But, another nugget appeared:

"Why did I see a notification that I won't be able to restore factory
settings?

You'll see this message if the manufacturer set up your PC to run
from a
compressed Windows image file and included an option to restore factory
settings. After the upgrade, you won’t be able to restore factory
settings, but other recovery options will be available."

I'm running on a small Sony Vaio, no DVD and I expect that (I've had to
use it once) "restore factory settings" runs from a compressed image
file.
Are the "other recovery options will be available." available?

I do use Macrium Reflect (free) to write image files to my NAS - will
they be usable after 'upgrading' to W10?



I had the same when I put Win10 on my tablet. The thing that you'll
appreciate is that it offers me a return to Win8.1.
The removal of "factory settings" is occasioned by space limitations on
the HD. It's rather like on Android phones where "factory settings"
doesn't mean what it says on the can (space limitations prevents them
including an image of the original set-up).

After installing Win10 you have a month to restore.
And the Macrium Reflect images will be utilisable. Make sure you have a
Macrium restore disc.

Ed

After installing Win10 you have a month to restore **using the 'Go
Back' Win10 included feature. After a month the 'Go Back' option will
not be available since Win10 will automatically purge the files it
retained for performing the 'Go Back'

The inability to use the 'Go Back' feature does not preempt the
ability to use other restore type methods (Recovery disks provided by
the OEM or created by the user to return the device to factory
condition, 3rd party imaging tool that created a backup image to
external media or different drive prior to the upgrade, Windows 8.1
included Backup/Restore System Image created on external
media/different drive prior to the upgrade, etc.)

I think the question on that would be, if you restore from image after
30 days, will your newly restored old OS be able to be activated now
that Microsoft already has that system as being upgraded to Win10? Since
it hasn't been 30 days since it was released, the jury seems to still be
out on that verdict :-)

The sheer presence of the GoBack feature and the ability to return to
the prior and activated o/s used to upgrade to 10 is the reassurance
that the reverting to the prior o/s will yield an activated prior
o/s....i.e. if it didn't then GoBack would not be included
(Think about it g) - it's really easy to deduce.

*During the 30 day period*, yes, it's really easy to deduce. ;-)

But the question was, what happens after that? What happens to the
qualifying license after windows.old is gone, using windows.old as the
marker for the end of the 30 day period. The answer to that question isn't
as easy to deduce, which is why the jury is out. We need to see the 30 day
period elapse to see what happens, since Microsoft hasn't said anything
meaningful on the topic.

The ability to revert to a prior o/s with an activated license is
statistically independent of the Win10 upgrade and the license and
device footprint retained in the MSFT Store.

Exactly, and since MS hasn't provided concrete guidance, we're in a wait and
see mode.


No jury, no wait and see mode.

The 30 day only applies to the availability of the Go Back feature in
Win10. After 30 days, the feature won't even be present (its also
missing in a clean install)
- Returning to the prior o/s with or without the Go Back feature is
the same (within or after the 30 days). Go Back just provides another
route due to the files saved (but later purged) on the upgraded device.



--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience

Char Jackson posted this via
:

*During the 30 day period*, yes, it's really easy to deduce. ;-)

But the question was, what happens after that? What happens to the
qualifying license after windows.old is gone, using windows.old as the
marker for the end of the 30 day period. The answer to that question
isn't as easy to deduce, which is why the jury is out. We need to see
the 30 day period elapse to see what happens, since Microsoft hasn't
said anything meaningful on the topic.

The ability to revert to a prior o/s with an activated license is
statistically independent of the Win10 upgrade and the license and
device footprint retained in the MSFT Store.

Exactly, and since MS hasn't provided concrete guidance, we're in a wait
and see mode.

Your Windows 8.1 was previously activated on Microsoft's servers.

You upgraded to Windows 10, which was subsequently, routinely and/or
ritually activated on Microsoft's servers.

Now, if you imaged backupped your 8.1 first, and then you upgraded to 10,
the upgrade maintained your backup imaging software (it did with mine;
using AOMEI) and at some point you went ahead and imaged backupped your 10
because for right now - because you decided 10 was too cumbersome, and
restored the 8.1, the 8.1 would still be "activated" - or maintain its
activation credentials - so, you could catch up on any updates you've
missed, etc., and get some projects done with 8.1... Now, you like 8.1 OK,
but you want to keep up with Windows 10 developments, so you backup image
the most recent usage of 8.1 and then restore the Win 10 image - which
would remain "activated" or maintain its activation credentials, so you
might catch up on 10's updates and mess with it some more... then you're
still not completely content with it, so you backup image the latest 10 and
restore the most recent 8.1, and catch up on its updates...

On the "roll back" feature... The Windows 10 upgrade stores ~2.75GB (in my
case) in a folder on your C: drive... I guess there's a built-in timer
involved in this option, probably stored on your HDD. I use a backup image
system which takes about 11-minutes to backup and about 17-minutes to
restore. I have already used my Control Panel Administrative Tools
Disk Cleanup Clean up system files (I disdain the way it has to analyze
again when you push that button... in Win8/8.1/and 10) tic the Previous
Windows installation(s) box and regain almost 3GB of HDD space... You'd
need to keep those if you plan on using the "roll back" method... and then
you'd be confined to the 30-day period... but only somewhat - because you
can still upgrade for free to Win10 for the better part of the coming year
using the media creation tool, and either the DVD or USB media... It's
just way more cumbersome than using a a backup image method... IMO.

The 30-day period is not a try-it-or-lose-it situation... It's just
Microsoft's way of giving you some options should you not like Windows 10
and restoring the used HDD space back to usage... Say, they gave you 90-
days... well, for 90-days they'd be occupying nearly 3GB of your HDD with
roll-back files... Apparently, once the 30-days [or so] expires, your
system will automatically delete those files - which I have already done
manually because it seems to work for me. Berry berry gud to me.

There's no cross-reference between Microsoft's Windows 8.1 activation
servers and Windows 10 activation servers. As far as I can contemplate,
there is no potential for abuse because if someone tried to use any of
these backed up systems on another device, the Microsoft activation servers
would catch them and there'd be the published consequences to pay... Unless
you're Catholic... then you just goto Confession, do your assigned penance
(if you bribe the priest, you can probably get by with saying a couple of
Hail Marys) and it's like it never even happened and you still go to Heaven
-- but, of course, you'd have to die first.

HTH.

--

I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^; and,
It's like Yogi Berra always used to say:
"The future ain't what it used to be!"

http://tinyurl.com/ocnqvgq

.. . .winston posted
this via :

Win 8.1 will remain activated. It's statistically independent (think
orthoganally)

NO! YOU ARE TYPICALLY SO WRONG! The word is "orthogonally"... except in
YOUR case, it's probably "orthogasmiclly" because your brain spasms are NOT
the same as a sentient being's "thinking." But keep on taking your geriatric
meds because if nothing else, you are supercedingly entertainful.

--

I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^; and,
It's like Yogi Berra always used to say:
"The future ain't what it used to be!"

http://tinyurl.com/ocnqvgq

On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 04:53:10 -0400, ". . .winston"
wrote:

Char Jackson wrote on 08/09/2015 9:56 AM:

Exactly, and since MS hasn't provided concrete guidance, we're in a wait and
see mode.


No jury, no wait and see mode.

The 30 day only applies to the availability of the Go Back feature in
Win10. After 30 days, the feature won't even be present (its also
missing in a clean install)
- Returning to the prior o/s with or without the Go Back feature is
the same (within or after the 30 days). Go Back just provides another
route due to the files saved (but later purged) on the upgraded device.

Thanks for providing that info, but we're still in a wait and see mode to
see if it works the way you described.

On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 22:52:50 -0700, mike wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong...
I have win7 installed by the vendor of the PC.
I have a license key that's the generic "activation not required"
key shared by
a zillion other devices from that vendor.
I upgraded to win 10.
If I go back to win7 by restoring a win7 image, how can they
invalidate my key? I don't think my system would even ask???
Yes?
No?

....winston says you're fine. Me? I have no idea, which is why I say wait and
see what happens when others try similar things after the 30 day period
ends.

Bucky Breeder wrote on 08/10/2015 11:28 AM:
. . .winston posted
this via :

Win 8.1 will remain activated. It's statistically independent (think
orthoganally)

NO! YOU ARE TYPICALLY SO WRONG! The word is "orthogonally"... except in
YOUR case, it's probably "orthogasmiclly" because your brain spasms are NOT
the same as a sentient being's "thinking." But keep on taking your geriatric
meds because if nothing else, you are supercedingly entertainful.


It's really too bad you don't have access to the Windows 10 Team to
prove yourself wrong on most of the drivel you provide.



--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience

FredW posted this via
:

On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 17:07:55 -0400, ". . .winston"
wrote:

Bucky Breeder wrote on 08/10/2015 11:28 AM:

. . .winston posted
this via :

It's statistically independent (think orthoganally)

NO! YOU ARE TYPICALLY SO WRONG! The word is "orthogonally"...
except in YOUR case, it's probably "orthogasmiclly" because
your brain spasms are NOT the same as a sentient being's "thinking."
But keep on taking your geriatric meds because if nothing else,
you are supercedingly entertainful.

It's really too bad you don't have access to the Windows 10 Team to
prove yourself wrong on most of the drivel you provide.

Talking to a troll does not help.

(Bucky Breeder (in)famous from other newsgroups)

;-)

Typical nym-morphing sock-puppet troll conga-line and lamer sycophants
up to their same-old--lame-old geriatric stalking snip-and-snipe tricks.

The reason "...winston" incorrectly used "orthoganally" for "orthogonally"
is because that's a word which illustrates how *s/he* thinks; to-wit, like
s/he's got a stick up h/er/is ass! BWHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

("whines, snibbles and drools ... too bad you're not in my leetle private
exclusive imaginary girl's club..." -- The Buffoon known as "...winston")

Whadda maroon! Whadda stack of maroons!

HTH.

--

I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^; and,
It's like Yogi Berra always used to say:
"The future ain't what it used to be!"

http://tinyurl.com/odlbe3r