WinXP user bought first desktop Win7 - Win10 Pro

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote in :

I have used Windows XP for many years where I have many times had to do a
clean install where all I need ever are the two directories where I put
things which are the downloaded installers (uninstalled) and my data.

I have been using this XP for many years and have _never_ had to do an
install; since it's OEM (bought new), I don't have the necessary media
anyway. (AFAICR, it never nagged me to make any such either.)

You have to realize that's like saying you joined the infantry and went to
war and nobody shot at you so why would you need to know how to use a
weapon.

If you have ever had a hard disk crash on you, you'd need to do a new
install.

Also it's like saying you joined the infantry and went to war but never had
to sleep in mud. War is mud. It just is. At least to the infantry it is.

My analogy is that Windows 95/2k/xp gets slower over time, who knows why,
but perhaps because I turn off everything possible, even on Windows, which
might make some programs act screwy. Who knows why, but it does.

A re-install solves all that.
I used to reinstall about once a year but now it's once every three or four
years (unless a disk crashes).

I _do_ Macrium image it from time to time, but have never had to
actually use one, apart from the time the HD died. [I _was_ then about
to do a clean install onto the replacement HD - I do have _some_ install
media, and had been making _backups_ of my _data_ - but I did manage to
unstick the HD, and it ran long enough to take an image. That's when I
started imaging (-:]

Ok. So you did have a HDD die on you. It's normal. It happens to all of us.
Maybe less so with solid state drives nowadays.

I learned many years ago to never put anything in the "Documents and
Settings" folders or the "WINDOWS" folder, because they get so filled up
with junk from the operating system and other programs that they both are
just a big waste bin of sorts.

I'm with you there!

Thanks for understanding. I have nothing against the "concept" of Microsoft
creating a standard place for programs and people to put their "stuff".

But what happens, in implementation, is that it's like using the bathroom
at Grand Central Station in NYC where everyone follows different hygienic
rules. There are cigarette burns in the seat, the toilet paper is strewn
all over the floor, which itself is wet, by what I don't even want to know.
The sinks are filled with paper towels, and the pink soap is globed all
over the mirrors.

The "Documents & Settings" hierarchy is just like Grand Central Station
rest rooms.

I used to clean it up. Constantly.
Then I just gave up.

Any folder Microsoft creates that programs know about is so filled with
garbage that it's just not worth using nor cleaning up.

Luckily, I create my own version of "documents and settings", which works
just fine because I am the only controlling what goes in there and I tell
which apps what to put there.

That's what "Documents and Settings" is like.

I love the analogy!

All the programs & the operating system make an undisciplined mess of it.

[As opposed to a disciplined mess (-:?]

Thanks for the word-use correction!

That's what my C:\my_files hierarchy is like.
None of the programs or operating system makes a mess of it.

I suppose I do much the same, except that I have partitioned the HD, and
keep all my data (including downloaded installers etc.) on D:, very
rarely even opening C: in Explorer. (Of course I _change_ things on C:
whenever I do anything on the desktop, start menu, and other such.)

The start menu, on Windows XP anyway, can easily be a link, so you don't
even have to keep the "real" start menu in the "Documents and Settings"
hierarchy. It's just a link that goes there.

Your real start menu is really a set of folders which have links in them,
which is kept *outside* the mess of Microsoft.

Clearly, by "files I care about", you mean only your data, and
installers you have downloaded. Same as my D:.

There are probably three types of files I care about, but I do agree your
"D:" partition is the same (perhaps better) concept as my c:\my_files and
c:\my_apps directories.

The three types of files we care about a
1. Our actual data files (e.g., powerpoint slides, text files, pictures).
2. Our installers (which are a special case of "data" files).
3. Our rc files (the dot files) which "control" what apps do.

In only the third case is the situation tricky, e.g., Firefox loves to
stick profiles with horrid names in the worst location on the computer, and
Chrome is even a worse offender.

I used to maintain a single bookmarks file, for example, in my data
hierarchy, outside of the Firefox profile directory, but over time, I just
gave up on the concept of maintaining the user.js and .vimrc files in a
place where I want the programs to use them.

Instead, I hone the prefs.js/user.js, for example, and then I keep a
pristine *copy* of the well-honed setup file in my data hierarchy.

So I keep the VIM dotfiles there (.vimrc) and the Firefox user.js file,
etc. in the installer zip files hierarchy, along with the installers.

That way, when I re-install, I have both the installer archived and the
honed setup files, which I replace upon first invocation of the
newly-installed software.

My point is that you *can* keep everything organized - but - sometimes it's
easier to take a different road than what would otherwise be perfect.

All I can tell you is that I have had XP for years, which you know means I
have had to do clean installs multiple times and all I ever need are my
data files and my downloaded installers (and any software that came on hard
media).

I know it means _you_ have had to, yes (-:.

Well. As you can see from my Windows 10 setup questions, I try to *control*
what the operating system does. That means I prevent services from
starting, and I disable anything that wants to start (ccleaner is great for
this) and I delete files that I don't know why they are on my system.

Once, very long ago, probably in Windows 95 days, I deleted the idiotically
located root directory files (pagefile.sys, or something like that,
whatever Windows 95 had at that time), where the result was that I couldn't
reboot (as you can imagine).

So I learned to leave the root files alone for example.
Same with cleaning up the WINDOWS directory.

I used to clean it up manually, but over time, I learned to leave it alone
(much to the delight of virus makers, I'm sure).

I also install free software and test out dozens of types in a week, so,
again, things get messed up over time.

If you keep the whole thing static (which I don't do), then I'm sure it
gets screwed up far less than mine does. Don't even ask what I do on my
mobile devices because you'd be horrified that I have to factory reset
frequently just to get the thing to reboot again.

It's just software. Everything can be easily rebuilt if you plan ahead.
I think 99.9% of people's problems is that they don't plan ahead to wipe
out the entire system to start fresh.


We could argue philosophy, where I wish the kids would maintain their
bathroom but kids will never do that so their bathroom isn't even worth
using.

Not everyone has the luxury of two bathrooms. I _think_ I am right in
saying that in the UK, it's still very much the exception: a second
_WC_, which I know in US is sometimes called a bathroom (even though it
doesn't have a bath in it!), _is_ becoming commoner, but from your
lovely description above, you clearly are talking about a second
BATHroom.

Oh. I'm in the USA. Typical suburbia. Million dollar homes that would cost
only a hundred thousand dollars if they were in Kansas. Silicon Valley
normal stuff. Everyone has a similar setup.

Most have 4 bedrooms (mine has more but 4 is about average).
Most have 2 baths (mine has many more, but it's not typical).
Most have a 2 or 3 car garage with a bit of work space.

Unlike the East Coast, almost none have basements (which is a travesty).
All have fenced-in back yards.
Sometimes a pool.
Almost always a kiddie play set.
And a shed.

Anyway ... the bathrooms are either full or 1/2 where I've never seen a
bathroom not full (but I'm sure they exist) which is a shower or tub in
addition to the toilet and sink.

The only other thing I wish they would have is a bidet. Sigh.

It's the same with any folder that software "knows" about since any folder
that Microsoft provides is so filled up with garbage (just like the kid's
bathroom) that it isn't worth dealing with.

Agreed, except when one has to.

Yes. Sometimes I have to delve into the horrid "My Documents and Settings"
or "Program Files" folders, especially when dealing with arrogant software
developers such as those from Apple or Google or Microsoft who don't
respect your wishes.

For example, if you install iTunes, you can tell it where to go, but it
still put Quicktime and Bonjour in Program Files even if you told it to put
iTunes where you wanted it.

Arrogant stuff like that is mostly by the likes of the big companies with
the worst managed developers like Adobe, Motorola, Mozilla, etc. but even
Belarc did it, so, smaller outfits are as badly disciplined sometimes.

I just create my own folders that neither the operating system nor the
programs make a mess of and everything is fine.

My D: partition.

Yup. Your D partition is *safer* than what I use on C: because the area
most likely to get corrupted is the stuff near the operating system (e.g.,
WINDOWS) so your partition is much safer than my lack of partition.

I agree.

Of course, I ensure that every data file that I care about is saved into
the proper location in C:\my_files\ so I know that I have never
purposefully put any files in C:\Documents and Settings\ and certainly I
don't put anything in C:\WINDOWS.

I certainly rarely put anything in C:\Windows.

I think the only file I habitually put in C:\Windows is my edited version
of the MVP hosts file. If Windows could take a link, I wouldn't even keep
the hosts file there.

Very occasionally, I find
a utility that is well-behaved, and runs from a single executable, and I
may put that executable in C:\Windows\utils (or C:\Windows if it _has_
to be), but of course I've saved the installer or zip file I downloaded
on D:.

I find the smaller downloaded programs far better behaved than those from
the likes of google, microsoft, adobe, etc.


Every well written program will let you change the default location of its
file storage to C:\my_files\where you want your files to be.

Agreed. (In my case D:\wherever.)

Yup. There are corner cases, e.g., the aforementioned Belarc doesn't even
ask, nor citePDF ask, as I recall.

Worse, idiotically designed programs such as iTunes respect your answer for
the main program, but not for the ancilliary programs it installs (e.g.,
bonjour, quicktime, etc.).

Here is a screenshot of my program files directory on Windows XP, where I
never put ANYTHING in there willingly, so every one went in under duress.
https://s22.postimg.org/trsnhyk75/program_files.gif
..
PS: I've heard people deprecate the "print screen" button, but, why?
It is simple, fast, and effective. I just paste into Irfanview & crop.
(Yes, I know about Alt+PrintScreen).

I do understand that most people put things into C:\Documents and Settings\
but I don't know how they find anything in that garbage pile.

They probably only look via an application's "Open" dialog, never using
Explorer at all.

I agree. I've seen, much to my horror, people download stuff right in front
of me, and then spend ten minutes searching for where they put it!

It's always shocking to me that adults act like kids when it comes to
putting their files where they belong.

In , David B. suggested:

Thank you. :-)

I've only ever noticed ONE other poster use the word!

You're welcome.

I tried to see whom you were speaking about, but unfortunately Google
doesn't archive this newsgroup:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!fo....os.windows-10

Nor this newsgroup:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!fo...ndows7.general

But Google does archive the windows xp newsgroup:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!fo...dowsxp.general

Searching there for the term "redact", the term comes up exactly six times,
four of which are in a signature by "dh" which instructs the user to
"redact lie to reply: ".
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/micr...w/sxOwkd_n_-4J
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/micr...g/1Sl4tpRs5ugJ
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/micr...o/VVCjS1I32bMJ
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/micr...4/deg3ECsrNMcJ

One of which is in this very thread, used by me:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/micr...c/Zd7AIcUlCAAJ

Where the only other instance appears to be in the use of "redactions":
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/micr...A/XTVaMIkuD8QJ

Which, upon reading, appears to be some type of religious spam.

Given those results, I heartily commend you for noticing my use of a
relatively common word which, apparently, is not at all in vogue on the
Windows-related newsgroups!

99% of intelligence is (INHO) in the ability to pay attention to detail.

In message , John & Jane Doe
writes:
[]
Ok. So you did have a HDD die on you. It's normal. It happens to all of us.
Maybe less so with solid state drives nowadays.

(I'm not convinced - about SSDs, that is. Although my most recent one
_was_ without warning, I still feel HDs _usually_ give some indication
they're failing; I've yet to hear that SSDs do.)
[]
Thanks for understanding. I have nothing against the "concept" of Microsoft
creating a standard place for programs and people to put their "stuff".
[]
The "Documents & Settings" hierarchy is just like Grand Central Station
rest rooms.

I used to clean it up. Constantly.
Then I just gave up.

Some would say that's why you have to reinstall so often (-:. I wouldn't
be one of those saying that, because I've mostly given up trying to keep
on top of assorted bits of Windows, too.

Any folder Microsoft creates that programs know about is so filled with
garbage that it's just not worth using nor cleaning up.

Agreed.
[]
The start menu, on Windows XP anyway, can easily be a link, so you don't
even have to keep the "real" start menu in the "Documents and Settings"
hierarchy. It's just a link that goes there.

Wouldn't that make an extra level you have to go through in Start |
Programs? (And how about the desktop?)
[]
There are probably three types of files I care about, but I do agree your
"D:" partition is the same (perhaps better) concept as my c:\my_files and
c:\my_apps directories.
Glad you agree - see below.

The three types of files we care about a
1. Our actual data files (e.g., powerpoint slides, text files, pictures).
2. Our installers (which are a special case of "data" files).
3. Our rc files (the dot files) which "control" what apps do.

I hadn't seen them called rc files before.
[]
My point is that you *can* keep everything organized - but - sometimes it's
easier to take a different road than what would otherwise be perfect.
Agreed.
[]
Well. As you can see from my Windows 10 setup questions, I try to *control*
what the operating system does. That means I prevent services from

It's a constant, and uphill, battle, though, isn't it! (It really
_shouldn't_ be like that. But we've let them get away with it for too
long.)
[]
Not everyone has the luxury of two bathrooms. I _think_ I am right in
saying that in the UK, it's still very much the exception: a second
_WC_, which I know in US is sometimes called a bathroom (even though it
doesn't have a bath in it!), _is_ becoming commoner, but from your
lovely description above, you clearly are talking about a second
BATHroom.

Oh. I'm in the USA. Typical suburbia. Million dollar homes that would cost
only a hundred thousand dollars if they were in Kansas. Silicon Valley
normal stuff. Everyone has a similar setup.

Most have 4 bedrooms (mine has more but 4 is about average).
3 is large in UK.
Most have 2 baths (mine has many more, but it's not typical).
Rare here.
Most have a 2 or 3 car garage with a bit of work space.
Many don't have one car-parking space )-:.

Unlike the East Coast, almost none have basements (which is a travesty).
Rare here too; virtually universal in Germany.
All have fenced-in back yards.
(Can be confusing: I think US "yard" = UK "garden"; in UK, a yard has a
hard surface, such as cement or brick.)
Sometimes a pool.
Very rare here - not only not enough space, but too cold!
Almost always a kiddie play set.
If you mean climbing frame and slide, not _that_ common here.
And a shed.
Most who have a (back) garden (your "yard" I think) here have a shed.

Anyway ... the bathrooms are either full or 1/2 where I've never seen a
bathroom not full (but I'm sure they exist) which is a shower or tub in
addition to the toilet and sink.

The only other thing I wish they would have is a bidet. Sigh.

Ah, bidets are here again ...
[]
For example, if you install iTunes, you can tell it where to go, but it
still put Quicktime and Bonjour in Program Files even if you told it to put
iTunes where you wanted it.

I have no intention of ever installing iTunes (-:!
[]
I just create my own folders that neither the operating system nor the
programs make a mess of and everything is fine.

My D: partition.

Yup. Your D partition is *safer* than what I use on C: because the area
most likely to get corrupted is the stuff near the operating system (e.g.,
WINDOWS) so your partition is much safer than my lack of partition.

Yes, that's why I started doing it. Yes, hard drives will fail
eventually, so I keep my D: copied as well, but at least one of the
things that can screw up C: is you or something else doing something
that renders it unbootable, such that a format may be necessary - in
which case any folder on C: is lost; up to XP, at least, I think you can
reformat and reinstall to C: without D: being affected. [FWIW, my C: is
exactly 40G, of which 5.81 G is currently free.]
[]
I find the smaller downloaded programs far better behaved than those from
the likes of google, microsoft, adobe, etc.

Agreed. And tend to be better-written, too. (I admire the fact that
IrfanView, for example, until relatively recently had an installer that
would still fit on a floppy.)

PS: I've heard people deprecate the "print screen" button, but, why?
It is simple, fast, and effective. I just paste into Irfanview & crop.
(Yes, I know about Alt+PrintScreen).
Yes, I've seen much praise of this grabby thing that comes with 7; I'm
sure it _does_ have advantages, but I haven't found any need to learn
its foibles. In much the same way as I can't understand the point of
OneNote, that comes as an optional part of recent versions of MS Office.

I do understand that most people put things into C:\Documents and Settings\
but I don't know how they find anything in that garbage pile.

They probably only look via an application's "Open" dialog, never using
Explorer at all.

I agree. I've seen, much to my horror, people download stuff right in front
of me, and then spend ten minutes searching for where they put it!

It's always shocking to me that adults act like kids when it comes to
putting their files where they belong.

I'm sure there are lots of things others do that irritate us (for me one
of them is watching someone fill in a webform, using the mouse to move
between fields and to click the OK button when they're finished, rather
than tab and enter). Equally, I'm sure there are things I do - both
within computing and outside it - that drive others up the wall.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

You know what the big secret about posh people is? Most of them are lovely.
- Richard Osman, RT 2016/7/9-15

In message , John & Jane Doe
writes:
[]
What is this Glary stuff?
Searching, I find http://www.glarysoft.com/glary-utilities/

I just put the installer in:
C:\my_progs\cleaners\registry\glary\

I will test it out.\
https://s24.postimg.org/xbf0g7i91/gary.gif

NOTE: It wants to install maiagames whatever that is, and wants me to join
their "customer experience" which sure doesn't sound like something I want
to do.

As always, I pulled the Ethernet plug when I started it, where it tried to
phone home to
http://www.glarysoft.com/update/rele...=6.77.6.92&l=1

I use my ancient KPF (Kerio Personal Firewall), which seems to catch all
such attempts. It's _amazing_ just how many such calls some prog.s make!
[]
However, it does have a nice startup manager interface though.
1. startup https://s4.postimg.org/bevbtcodp/gary_startup.gif
2. scheduled https://s7.postimg.org/3tojbahvv/gary_scheduled.gif
3. plugins https://s9.postimg.org/cqu06a7jz/gary_plugins.gif
4. applications https://s11.postimg.org/5hyuf6irn/gary_application.gif
5. windows https://s15.postimg.org/qd48b8ji3/gary_windows.gif

It seems like a nice util, as long as it's run only offline.
[]
Gary seemed to find things that ccleaner did not, so I concur.
I first ran Ccleaner, then Gary's registry cleaner.
Here is the result: https://s21.postimg.org/4xfi2ghyv/gary_registry.gif

NOTE: As a double check, I ran ccleaner after Gary but it found nothing.

You got it right the first two times, then you left the l out. [Who's
this Gary person? (-:] (FWIW, I don't think I use Glary; I've seen it
mentioned enough times here that I keep thinking of investigating it,
but haven't yet acquired a suitable tuit.)

Both cleaners will nag from time to time to upgrade to paid version but
I just ignore that. The are worth the nags I think.

I never upgrade until a gun is put to my head.
Or until there is something I know I need.
Which rarely happens.

Likewise. There's usually something I _don't_ want, like the new UI at
about Firefox 28. (And the whole philosophy of Windows 10.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"... four Oscars, and two further nominations ... On these criteria, he's
Britain's most successful film director." Powell or Pressburger? no; Richard
Attenborough? no; Nick Park!

On Sun, 7 May 2017 17:38:51 +0100, "David B."
wrote:

On 07/05/2017 17:27, Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 5 May 2017 23:37:23 +0100, "David B."
wrote:

On 05/05/2017 22:58, John & Jane Doe wrote:
David B. wrote in :

REDACT - who taught you that word?!!!

Origin and Etymology of redact
Middle English, from Latin redactus, past participle of redigere

First Known Use: 15th century
1350-1400; Middle English Latin redàctus (past participle of redigere to
lead back), equivalent to red- red- + àctus, past participle of agere to
lead;


I repeat: *Who taught YOU that word*?!!!

Hmm, obviously that word gives you a hinky. Can you explain why that is?

Yes, of course ...... once you have provide the link to your REAL
identity at LinkedIn.

Will you do that, Char?

This is Usenet, IOW optionally anonymous.
"Good guys" keep their personal details secret to protect
themselves and their families from STALKERS, SPAMMERS, PEDOPHILES and
other filth.
But you already know that.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

On Sun, 7 May 2017 11:11:12 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
In the old days, we used the PrintScreen key for
screen capture, but that's "so 1950's" :-) Nobody
does that any more.

Humph. OK, so I'm nobody. I always use print screen, then Ctrl-V in
PaintShopPro, crop and always make adjustments for use on Facebook,
printing, or elsewhere. I've never seen a screen that couldn't be
improved.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10 "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:
In message , John & Jane Doe
writes:
[]
What is this Glary stuff?
Searching, I find http://www.glarysoft.com/glary-utilities/

I just put the installer in:
C:\my_progs\cleaners\registry\glary\

I will test it out.\
https://s24.postimg.org/xbf0g7i91/gary.gif

NOTE: It wants to install maiagames whatever that is, and wants me to join
their "customer experience" which sure doesn't sound like something I want
to do.

As always, I pulled the Ethernet plug when I started it, where it tried to
phone home to
http://www.glarysoft.com/update/rele...=6.77.6.92&l=1

I use my ancient KPF (Kerio Personal Firewall), which seems to catch all
such attempts. It's _amazing_ just how many such calls some prog.s make!

Which version of KPF? I miss the very old version that I used to use in
Windows XP Pro SP3.
--
Quote of the Week: "Busy as ants hurrying orcs were digging, digging
lines of deep trenches in a huge ring, just out of bowshot from the
walls;" --The Return of the King (book)
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.

In message , Ant
writes:
In alt.comp.os.windows-10 "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:
In message , John & Jane Doe
writes:
[]
As always, I pulled the Ethernet plug when I started it, where it tried to
phone home to
http://www.glarysoft.com/update/rele...=6.77.6.92&l=1

I use my ancient KPF (Kerio Personal Firewall), which seems to catch all
such attempts. It's _amazing_ just how many such calls some prog.s make!

Which version of KPF? I miss the very old version that I used to use in
Windows XP Pro SP3.
2.1.5. I think that's the last before something.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

And Jonathan Harker would never have sent all those letters to his beloved
Mina from Transylvania, he'd have texted her instead. "Stuck in weird castle w
guy w big teeth. Missing u. xxxx (-:" - Alison Graham, RT 2015/11/7-13

In alt.windows7.general "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:
....
I use my ancient KPF (Kerio Personal Firewall), which seems to catch all
such attempts. It's _amazing_ just how many such calls some prog.s make!

Which version of KPF? I miss the very old version that I used to use in
Windows XP Pro SP3.
2.1.5. I think that's the last before something.

Yeah, that is what I used. So, it works perfectly in the newer 64-bit
Windows versions? I thought it wasn't compatible.
--
Quote of the Week: "Busy as ants hurrying orcs were digging, digging
lines of deep trenches in a huge ring, just out of bowshot from the
walls;" --The Return of the King (book)
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote in :

The start menu, on Windows XP anyway, can easily be a link, so you don't
even have to keep the "real" start menu in the "Documents and Settings"
hierarchy. It's just a link that goes there.

Wouldn't that make an extra level you have to go through in Start |
Programs? (And how about the desktop?)

I keep the desktop clean, with only "My Computer" on it, since all the
directories I need are in the quick launch bar on WinXP. I'll want to
replicate that on Windows 10.

My WinXP start menu can't be completely reproduced on Windows 10 but to
answer your question, I don't understand how you could say it's an "extra'
level to go through.

Remember, my mind for the past 20 years has organized, say, Ccleaner, as
being in "cleaners" "ccleaner", so, that's what I expect to see in my menu.
Start menu cleaners ccleaner

I completely ignore "Start Programs" as it is a complete waste. Yes, in
the olden days, I tried to keep it clean, but it just wasn't worth the
trouble. All I do is put my "menu" folder at the same level as "programs"
and then I never need to go to Start Programs.

Actually, my menu folder is a link to my real menus, but that is just a
detail.

The start menu on Windows 10 is going to take some getting used to.
https://s15.postimg.org/r0nz0wk17/wi...start_menu.gif

What is all that stuff about?
- Life at a glance? What? What is that?
All I want "at a glance" is:
a. Access to my folders (which is usually in my WinXP QuickLaunch).
b. Access to my main programs (which in WinXP is in the start menu).
That's it.
There's nothing else I *could* want to access at the desktop.
1. Folders
2. Programs
Why make it so complicated?
Can I make that "life at a glance" show just what I want?
a. My data folder and my menu folder and my temp folder and that's it for
folders.
b. My app hierarchy of shortcuts (and that's it for programs).

Looking at the other half of that Windows 10 picture, I see
- Play and explore! WTF? Play and explore?
What do they think we do with the computer.
"Oh, I have nothing to do today, so let's play and explore!!!!!.
Are they nuts?
What's on that Play and Explore anyway?
Solitaire! Are you kidding? Really? OMG.
The first and last time I did that was my first exposure to Win95.
Can I make that "play and explore" something useful?

What's the theory here?
If all I want are to replicate what I could do on WinXP and get rid of all
that other crap, what's the recommended Windows 10 approach?

Here's all I want access to at the desktop:
1. My three folders, data, applications, and temporary stuff.
2. My quick launch quick access set of folders & apps (about 10 in toto)
3. Then I need a menu to the entire list of shortcuts to apps I've
installed

I don't need *anything* else on the desktop.
What is the best way to accomplish that simple task on Windows 10?

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote in :

(I'm not convinced - about SSDs, that is. Although my most recent one
_was_ without warning, I still feel HDs _usually_ give some indication
they're failing; I've yet to hear that SSDs do.)
[]

I think ssd drives are fine for laptops, especially fanless tiny ones, due
to battery life, jolting, heat issues, and fast bootup.

But they're not yet cost effective for terabyte storage.
They're not for me on this desktop anyway.

Some would say that's why you have to reinstall so often.
I completely understand.
Basically, most people, if they don't know what a switch is for, they leave
it alone.

Me?
If I don't know what a switch is for, I turn it off.
If something happens that I care about, I turn it back on, but, more often
than not, something happens ten days later when I've already futzed with
two dozen other things.

Luckily, anyone can recover from anything with a full re-install!

I hadn't seen them called rc files before.
Oh. sorry. RC === run control
It's a very common Unix/Linux term, which I figured was known here.
~/.exrc for example is the run control file for the vi editor, as I recall.
I think VIM might use .vimrc, for example.

It's just a "dotfile" or "run control" file, which is just something the
program consults upon startup to get its settings.

It's a typical UNIX thing more so than Windows though.

It's a constant, and uphill, battle, though, isn't it! (It really
_shouldn't_ be like that. But we've let them get away with it for too
long.)

Philosophically we're doomed because those who try to bend Windows to their
needs are 1 out of 100 or maybe even 1 out of 1,000, where the hoi polloi
set the rules for everyone.

I just shut off a zillion Windows 10 privacy sliders.
To you and me they should have one and only one (with a zillion sub
sliders).

The first and only slider would be:
Q: Do you want privacy ... yes, or no?

If you say "yes", it should shut off all zillion of those sliders.
If you say "no", then it can present you with those zillion sliders.

Alas. Will never happen.
So I will be turning off sliders for weeks on end, I'm sure.
And even then, I've been warned the MVP HOSTS file doesn't work.
(How can that possibly be?)

Most have 4 bedrooms (mine has more but 4 is about average).
3 is large in UK.

3 bedrooms is nothing in suburbia.
Anyway, that's a different topic altogether.

Most have 2 baths (mine has many more, but it's not typical).
Rare here.

Heh. I guess you're in a city?

Most have a 2 or 3 car garage with a bit of work space.
Many don't have one car-parking space )-:.
You seem to be in a city.
Cities are different.
Way different.

Unlike the East Coast, almost none have basements (which is a travesty).
Rare here too; virtually universal in Germany.
Basements are wonderful.
It's sad that they don't do them in the Silicon Valley.
Very sad.

All have fenced-in back yards.
(Can be confusing: I think US "yard" = UK "garden"; in UK, a yard has a
hard surface, such as cement or brick.)
Oh. Here in the US, a "yard" is the front and back.
Most have acres of land outside of suburbia, but inside of suburbia, it's
smaller. In the east coast you have half acre yards a lot and a few acres a
lot, but in California they're nuts and pack them in to postage stamp
lawns. Such is the life of supply and demand.

Sometimes a pool.
Very rare here - not only not enough space, but too cold!
Heh heh ... heated by the sun out here.

Almost always a kiddie play set.
If you mean climbing frame and slide, not _that_ common here.
Here they have slides, and swings, and other things.
My kids ALWAYS had them at least.

And a shed.
Most who have a (back) garden (your "yard" I think) here have a shed.
A shed is where the lawn mower, leaf blower, chain saw, hedge trimmer,
string trimmer, etc. goes, along with the gasoline you don't want to keep
in the garage.

Ah, bidets are here again ...

Since we have septic systems, a bidet saves on tissue paper going into a
tank where it mostly just turns to sludge and has to be pumped out again.
If I had a bidet, it could pay for itself in not needing the system pumped
every few years.

Plus, if it's warm, it cleans much good'er than does tissue paper.

I have no intention of ever installing iTunes (-:!

Understood. It's an abomination. I was just saying how badly behaved it
was, in that you can tell it where to go but it still puts crap in program
files.

Yes, that's why I started doing it. Yes, hard drives will fail
eventually, so I keep my D: copied as well, but at least one of the
things that can screw up C: is you or something else doing something
that renders it unbootable, such that a format may be necessary - in
which case any folder on C: is lost; up to XP, at least, I think you can
reformat and reinstall to C: without D: being affected. [FWIW, my C: is
exactly 40G, of which 5.81 G is currently free.]

Yup. Your D partition is better.
Its' the same concept as my directories, only better protected by the
partition.

Agreed. And tend to be better-written, too. (I admire the fact that
IrfanView, for example, until relatively recently had an installer that
would still fit on a floppy.)
Irfanview is great.
As is Windows Media Player Classic (with the Klite codec packs).
Also IZARc and Ccleaner and Paint.NET (although I hate .net).

Yes, I've seen much praise of this grabby thing that comes with 7; I'm
sure it _does_ have advantages, but I haven't found any need to learn
its foibles.

If I need a *lot* of screenshots, I use Irfanview which has plenty of
capturing methods. Otherwise I just use print screen.

Someone is gonna have to explain to me why a screenshot program is any
better than those two for capturing.

For editing the screenshot, nothing is better than Paint.NET (although I
hate .NET).

In much the same way as I can't understand the point of
OneNote, that comes as an optional part of recent versions of MS Office.
I don't even know what that is.

I'm sure there are lots of things others do that irritate us (for me one
of them is watching someone fill in a webform, using the mouse to move
between fields and to click the OK button when they're finished, rather
than tab and enter). Equally, I'm sure there are things I do - both
within computing and outside it - that drive others up the wall.

Yeah, the tab key jumps between fields.
I've seen people blueselect stuff, and then hit the backspace key one by
one to get rid of twenty characters when they could just start typing which
would wipe them all out with the first character.

Such are peeves.

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote in :

I use my ancient KPF (Kerio Personal Firewall), which seems to catch all
such attempts. It's _amazing_ just how many such calls some prog.s make!

Firewall is a better way than what I do, which is pull the plug.

You got it right the first two times, then you left the l out. [Who's
this Gary person? (-:] (FWIW, I don't think I use Glary; I've seen it
mentioned enough times here that I keep thinking of investigating it,
but haven't yet acquired a suitable tuit.)

It must be round.

I never upgrade until a gun is put to my head.
Or until there is something I know I need.
Which rarely happens.

Likewise. There's usually something I _don't_ want, like the new UI at
about Firefox 28. (And the whole philosophy of Windows 10.)

Yup. I don't upgrade unless I have to because there's usually nothing
worthwhile, and often things we don't want.

Security is an issue though. Sigh.

In message , Ant
writes:
In alt.windows7.general "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:
...
I use my ancient KPF (Kerio Personal Firewall), which seems to catch all
such attempts. It's _amazing_ just how many such calls some prog.s make!

Which version of KPF? I miss the very old version that I used to use in
Windows XP Pro SP3.
2.1.5. I think that's the last before something.

Yeah, that is what I used. So, it works perfectly in the newer 64-bit
Windows versions? I thought it wasn't compatible.

No, I'm using it here on XP-32. I can't remember what I've got for W7; I
use the W7 machine once in a blue moon, mainly for Skype and TeamViewer.
(And those mainly because it's more powerful and has a big screen,
rather than because it's W7.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Chuck Berry was once asked what he thought of Elvis Presley and he said, "He
got what he wanted, but he lost what he had." [Quoted by Anne Widdicombe, in
Radio Times 8-14 October 2011.]

In message , John & Jane Doe
writes:
[]
Yup. I don't upgrade unless I have to because there's usually nothing
worthwhile, and often things we don't want.

Security is an issue though. Sigh.

So they keep telling us. I don't online bank (I telephone bank), and I
haven't had a virus since Windows 9x (and that was only because, out of
curiosity, I took an attachment out of a dodgy-looking email just to
scan it; sure enough, it was infected, so I deleted it).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Chuck Berry was once asked what he thought of Elvis Presley and he said, "He
got what he wanted, but he lost what he had." [Quoted by Anne Widdicombe, in
Radio Times 8-14 October 2011.]