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#46
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Nominations still being accepted for the MSMVPHOS!
Leythos wrote:
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:47:43 -0500, Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-) wrote: What Alias is getting at is that all web sites, and stores, sell you software. Don't they all have software departments, T.V. departments, appliance departments etc. Yet after they have sold you the "software", they try to tell you that you have bought a license. Well, people DID NOT buy it in the license department - did they? And the simple fact is that the store that sold it didn't provide full disclosure while MS does clearly provide it. Maybe you should be complaining to the stores since they are the ones not providing the information to the customers - MS clearly makes this information available to any that ask/look for it. Again, MS doesn't have to let their products be sold in retail stores, but they do. MS tries to write the sale of the copy of software AFTER THE FACT OF THE SALE with their post-sale shrink-wrap license. -- Peace! Kurt Self-anointed Moderator microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea http://microscum.com/mscommunity "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron! "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei" |
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#47
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Nominations still being accepted for the MSMVPHOS!
Software has become a term applied to a lot of things. You still have to
read the license to understand the difference between the generic term and the specifics of a published edition. Even open software is licensed. -- Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine] (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested) "Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-)" wrote in message ... What Alias is getting at is that all web sites, and stores, sell you software. Don't they all have software departments, T.V. departments, appliance departments etc. Yet after they have sold you the "software", they try to tell you that you have bought a license. Well, people DID NOT buy it in the license department - did they? Based upon that fact, and that even Microsoft offers you software downloads (not license downloads) I think I also am going to begin to state that I OWN the "software". The license that was in the package is ancillary to the fact of my purchase, and I don't really have to even read it. The software is mine, whether I have a license or not! -- Regards, Richard Urban aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-) If you knew as much as you think you know, You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew! "Colin Barnhorst" wrote in message ... I have a degree in English from the University of Texas Arlington and my comprehension skills are fine. If you install software without reading through the EULA then the problem is not comprehension, but reading at all. -- Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine] (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested) "Alias" wrote in message ... "Colin Barnhorst" wrote If you can read the website, you can read the EULA. If you just click through it during an install, that's your issue. Huh? I didn't say anything about reading or clicking through the scammy EULA, now did I, sport? Do you have a reading comprehension problem? Is English not your first language? The web sites I was referring to and I made it clear by typing *computer web sites" say *software*, not "licences". Yaknow, the ones that sell Microsoft *Software*? -- Alias -- Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine] (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested) "Alias" wrote in message ... "Colin Barnhorst" wrote You were sold the licenses, not the software. -- Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine] (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested) We know about the licencing scam. It's a scam. It's highway robbery. EVERY computer web site says "software", not "licences". Alias |
#48
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Nominations still being accepted for the MSMVPHOS!
"Leythos" wrote in message news On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:13:01 +0100, Alias wrote: "Leythos" wrote in message news On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:08:18 +0100, Alias wrote: "Leythos" wrote in message [snip] Spain sanctions murder/eliminations all the time, you just don't see it because you don't belong to the covert groups that are involved in it. Tell that to José Barrionuevo and Rafael Vera who are doing time for heading up killing squads to kill ETA members. Just because someone gets busted for a failed mission that had to have a fall guy, it doesn't mean that it's not still happening. That example of yours just proves the point - there are sanctioned kills carried out by governments all over the world, have been, and will continue to be. Can you prove your assertions? Fact is the USA has state sanctioned murder and has murdered many innocent people and they do it in public and are proud of it. Disgusting. Many countries give the eye-for-an-eye treatment to criminals - and they damn well deserve it. If you kill a mass murderer you are doing a public service. Sure, there have always been mistakes, even with spain and other countries, but I would rather live in a country that punished criminals than one that rewards them. Killing criminals is not quite the same as a sanctioned murder - they imply different types of intent and action in most cases. I can tell you know, if I were in law enforcement I would have no trouble being part of the team that kills murders for their crimes. I've also advocated going back to public hangings on the local state court-house lawns with the bodies to remain in public view for at least 4 hours after the hanging. In fact, if I could get back into the service and be part of a team tracking down and exterminating terrorists I would volunteer in a heart-beat. When they confuse you with a mass murderer and kill your ass while you're screaming "I'm innocent", maybe then you will understand. Alias |
#49
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Nominations still being accepted for the MSMVPHOS!
For an example, to buy XP Home direct from Microsoft, go to:
http://www.microsoft.com/products/in...33e0c&type=ovr Other products have their own direct sales pages. Need more? -- Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine] (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested) "Alias" wrote in message ... "Leythos" wrote in message news On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:47:43 -0500, Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-) wrote: What Alias is getting at is that all web sites, and stores, sell you software. Don't they all have software departments, T.V. departments, appliance departments etc. Yet after they have sold you the "software", they try to tell you that you have bought a license. Well, people DID NOT buy it in the license department - did they? And the simple fact is that the store that sold it didn't provide full disclosure while MS does clearly provide it. Maybe you should be complaining to the stores since they are the ones not providing the information to the customers - MS clearly makes this information available to any that ask/look for it. Microsoft sells direct? Since when? Those stores are representing Microsoft and Microsoft doesn't do anything to correct them. It's called scamming. Alias |
#50
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Nominations still being accepted for the MSMVPHOS!
Leythos wrote:
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 14:15:00 -0500, kurttrail wrote: Leythos wrote: On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 19:33:42 +0100, Alias wrote: This page says nothing about a licence http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...&xsell=1957319 I rest my case. How many Walmart clerks explain anything but "that will be $119.98. please"? So, I don't understand you - you find an instance where WalMart, like other vendors is not providing full disclosure about a product that it sells, where the product manufacturer does provide this information, and you still want to slam the Manufacturer? Why are you not going after WalMart, Sears, and the places that market the manufacturers product incorrectly? You've clearly pointed out a flaw in the sales model of many companies, but not in Microsofts. Actually the deception is MS's by allowing the sale of copies of MS software in Retail Stores, and then trying to rewrite history with a post-sale shrink-wrap license. The information is PUBLIC for anyone to see, it's not hidden, and after all of these years it's only the public's fault for not knowing. The resellers are to blame for marketing something as something else. LOL! The shrink-wrap license terms are hidden at the time of sale. MS is to blame: 1.) They allow the sale of copies of their copyrighted software as a retail product. 2.) They rewrite the terms of retail sale, AFTER THE FACT OF THE SALE, in their post-sale shrink-wrap license. Remember, there is no law that forces MS to allow copies of their copyrighted material as a retail product. -- Peace! Kurt Self-anointed Moderator microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea http://microscum.com/mscommunity "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron! "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei" |
#51
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Nominations still being accepted for the MSMVPHOS!
It is public knowledge that Microsoft software is licensed unless stated "OK
to share with friends" (which does appear on some items, like the Security CD Feb 2004 and the Service Pack 2 CD). Microsoft publishes this on their websites. A store not making a big point about licensing does not break the license between you and Microsoft. -- Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine] (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested) "kurttrail" wrote in message ... Colin Barnhorst wrote: You were sold the licenses, not the software. That's what is said in the EULA, AFTER the fact of the sale of a copy of software had already taken place. -- Peace! Kurt Self-anointed Moderator microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea http://microscum.com/mscommunity "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron! "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei" |
#52
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Nominations still being accepted for the MSMVPHOS!
"Leythos" wrote in message news On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:25:12 +0100, Alias wrote: "Leythos" wrote in message news On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:13:01 +0100, Alias wrote: "Leythos" wrote in message news On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:08:18 +0100, Alias wrote: "Leythos" wrote in message [snip] Spain sanctions murder/eliminations all the time, you just don't see it because you don't belong to the covert groups that are involved in it. Tell that to José Barrionuevo and Rafael Vera who are doing time for heading up killing squads to kill ETA members. Just because someone gets busted for a failed mission that had to have a fall guy, it doesn't mean that it's not still happening. That example of yours just proves the point - there are sanctioned kills carried out by governments all over the world, have been, and will continue to be. Can you prove your assertions? Fact is the USA has state sanctioned murder and has murdered many innocent people and they do it in public and are proud of it. Disgusting. Many countries give the eye-for-an-eye treatment to criminals - and they damn well deserve it. If you kill a mass murderer you are doing a public service. Sure, there have always been mistakes, even with spain and other countries, but I would rather live in a country that punished criminals than one that rewards them. Killing criminals is not quite the same as a sanctioned murder - they imply different types of intent and action in most cases. I can tell you know, if I were in law enforcement I would have no trouble being part of the team that kills murders for their crimes. I've also advocated going back to public hangings on the local state court-house lawns with the bodies to remain in public view for at least 4 hours after the hanging. In fact, if I could get back into the service and be part of a team tracking down and exterminating terrorists I would volunteer in a heart-beat. When they confuse you with a mass murderer and kill your ass while you're screaming "I'm innocent", maybe then you will understand. I already understand that some "innocent" people get convicted, it's a statistical certainty. If you also consider that more than 99% of the people that get the death-penalty are actually guilty, then it's an acceptable margin that I'm willing to live with. In all the years I've been around I've only read about 2 cases where a death-row person was innocent of the crime that got them the death penalty, but they were actually guilty of other crimes that would have got them life in jail - and life in jail should be turned to shot-on-entry so that we don't have to pay for them to stay in prison for the next 60+ years. I suppose you would rather see child rapists and murders get out on parole after 40 years since they've been rehabilitated while in prison? You don't actually believe that crap works do you? USA: Crime and punishment. High crime rate. Spain and the rest of the EU: Crime and rehabilitation. Low crime rate. I rest my case, your honor. Alias |
#53
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Nominations still being accepted for the MSMVPHOS!
Bruce Chambers wrote:
kurttrail wrote: Colin Barnhorst wrote: You were sold the licenses, not the software. That's what is said in the EULA, AFTER the fact of the sale of a copy of software had already taken place. Don't forget to read the outside of the packaging, where it says the same thing. It doesn't say that the copy of software isn't sold. -- Peace! Kurt Self-anointed Moderator microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea http://microscum.com/mscommunity "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron! "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei" |
#54
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Nominations still being accepted for the MSMVPHOS!
"Colin Barnhorst" wrote in message ... For an example, to buy XP Home direct from Microsoft, go to: http://www.microsoft.com/products/in...33e0c&type=ovr Other products have their own direct sales pages. Need more? I stand corrected but most people don't buy it there but at an approved by MS store that says software, not license. That said, I took a gander at the MS page for Spain and not one version of XP is offered there. Alias -- Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine] (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested) "Alias" wrote in message ... "Leythos" wrote in message news On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:47:43 -0500, Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-) wrote: What Alias is getting at is that all web sites, and stores, sell you software. Don't they all have software departments, T.V. departments, appliance departments etc. Yet after they have sold you the "software", they try to tell you that you have bought a license. Well, people DID NOT buy it in the license department - did they? And the simple fact is that the store that sold it didn't provide full disclosure while MS does clearly provide it. Maybe you should be complaining to the stores since they are the ones not providing the information to the customers - MS clearly makes this information available to any that ask/look for it. Microsoft sells direct? Since when? Those stores are representing Microsoft and Microsoft doesn't do anything to correct them. It's called scamming. Alias |
#55
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Nominations still being accepted for the MSMVPHOS!
"Leythos" wrote in message news On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 12:31:44 -0700, Colin Barnhorst wrote: For an example, to buy XP Home direct from Microsoft, go to: http://www.microsoft.com/products/in...33e0c&type=ovr Other products have their own direct sales pages. Need more? And on the right side they even tell you how to just buy another license if needed -- remove 999 in order to email me Not on the page for Spain. In fact, XP isn't offered at all. Alias |
#56
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Nominations still being accepted for the MSMVPHOS!
Leythos wrote:
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 12:18:22 -0700, Bruce Chambers wrote: kurttrail wrote: Colin Barnhorst wrote: You were sold the licenses, not the software. That's what is said in the EULA, AFTER the fact of the sale of a copy of software had already taken place. Don't forget to read the outside of the packaging, where it says the same thing. Bruce, if you state facts like that he'll just have to ignore you since we all know that the license information is fully public. I don't ignore anyone. It is not fully public. Would you lease a car without being able to see ALL of the terms at the time of leasing? Would you enter into a Loan agreement, without being able to see ALL of the terms, at the time you sign the Loan Agreement? Then why would you think you enter into a true software licensing agreement at the time of purchase, in a store that sells retail products, when you don't get to see or agree to ALL of the terms od use at the time of purchase? -- Peace! Kurt Self-anointed Moderator microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea http://microscum.com/mscommunity "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron! "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei" |
#57
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Nominations still being accepted for the MSMVPHOS!
Leythos wrote:
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 14:09:43 -0500, kurttrail wrote: Colin Barnhorst wrote: You were sold the licenses, not the software. That's what is said in the EULA, AFTER the fact of the sale of a copy of software had already taken place. So go bitch to the software seller that didn't make this public information available to the consumer - you can't blame MS for it, they DO make it available to the public. Start going after the resellers of the product for misleading the customers. MS allow copies of their copyright software to be sold as retail products. It's not the stores fault that MS tries to change the fact of the sale in their post-sale shrink-wrap license. NO ONE IS FORCING MS TO ALLOW THE SALE OF COPIES OF THEIR COPYRIGHTED SOFTWARE AS A RETAIL PRODUCT. -- Peace! Kurt Self-anointed Moderator microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea http://microscum.com/mscommunity "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron! "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei" |
#58
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Nominations still being accepted for the MSMVPHOS!
Robert Moir wrote:
kurttrail wrote: I had a MVP nominate himself, so any MVP that wants or needs to be inducted into the Microscum MVP Hall of Shame, please feel free to drop me an email! So without any further ado, the newest inductee to the Microscum MVP Hall of Shame, by his own request, is: Robert Moir - MicroMoron! http://microscum.com/rmoir/ Congratulations Robert! Finally an award to be proud of! rob LOL! Happy to oblige! But let me say this publicly, I would not have added you to the Microscum MVP Hall of Shame, if anyone, but you, nominated you for the dishonor! Nice Legs! ;-) -- Peace! Kurt Self-anointed Moderator microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea http://microscum.com/mscommunity "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron! "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei" |
#59
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Nominations still being accepted for the MSMVPHOS!
"Leythos" wrote in message news On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:37:16 +0100, Alias wrote: USA: Crime and punishment. High crime rate. Spain and the rest of the EU: Crime and rehabilitation. Low crime rate. yea, but you're only spouting the hype. Show me the numbers if you've got them. More people are murdered in New York City in one year than ETA has killed in over 40 years. Take in account for Murders per capita and show me which has the highest rate, until them it's just FUD. LOL! You sure are ignorant. I am not going to google for you. You see, I don't care if you believe me or not. If you want to know the truth, do your own research. Alias |
#60
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Nominations still being accepted for the MSMVPHOS!
"Leythos" wrote in message news On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:42:29 +0100, Alias wrote: "Leythos" wrote in message news On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 12:31:44 -0700, Colin Barnhorst wrote: For an example, to buy XP Home direct from Microsoft, go to: http://www.microsoft.com/products/in...33e0c&type=ovr Other products have their own direct sales pages. Need more? And on the right side they even tell you how to just buy another license if needed Not on the page for Spain. In fact, XP isn't offered at all. Spain isn't the the only place in the world that has XP or where vendors or MS sells it. I know, but if I want to buy XP, I am forced to buy it from a store that says I am buying software. Alias |
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