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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?



 
 
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  #46  
Old October 18th 18, 06:50 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 11:07:39 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 17/10/2018 17.38, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 03:49:37 +0100, Carlos E.R.
wrote:

On 16/10/2018 15.38, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 01:47:33 +0100, Ant wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file,
why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do?

Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc.

But stopping using those should be instant. Just mark them as empty.

Maybe it has to go through a long list and marking each one as free or
whatever, in the correct order. Or worse, it has to load each resource
from disk for some reason before clearing it. Maybe it fills them with
zeroes before releasing them.


I can't see the need for that, it should just say to Windows "this area
of memory is now available for use" then close.


You don't, but they do :-P

If it is a hundred areas, they have to loop through all of them.


Reporting 100 address ranges which are now free takes under a second.

Maybe it has to do something online, like log off, if it is one of those
games.


No, that's disabled.


Maybe they don't care :-p


You may be right there.

Maybe it checks for some thing, or writes some data to some file.
Status, scores... maybe it has to calculate those first.


No, this still happens if I save the game first, then when exiting I say
"don't save".


It still can do it.


Only if written terribly.
Ads
  #47  
Old October 18th 18, 08:30 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 03:26:33 +0100, Gene Wirchenko wrote:

On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 16:34:29 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

[snip]

I fail to see why even a very complex program takes a long time to stop doing things. Stopping something takes no time at all.


My car's brakes are not that good. How about yours?


Since when did a computer program have physical momentum? It's more like you're sat on the sofa reading a book, and your wife tells you to stop as dinner is ready. You really don't have to finish the current chapter.

A complex program may rely on certain conditions and while
shutting down may do work to keep these conditions true. Files may be
indexed, data may have to be saved, etc.


Except they weren't, I'm talking about programs where the game/file is already saved.
  #48  
Old October 18th 18, 10:13 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 22:47:06 +0100, joe wrote:

On 10/17/2018 4:15 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 20:54:35 +0100, nospam wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

Explain to me how it takes time to delete RAM.

what for? you have no clue and only want to troll.


No, I'm asking a sensible question. If you can'; handle that it's your
problem.

Have you provided the name of the game or program? Perhaps the issue is
related to a specific game and some of its features. For example, if it
logs into a server it ma take time to properly close that session.

As far as I see, you've asked a vague question making it hard for anyone
to provide sufficient detail in their responses to suit you.


The vague question is sufficient. There is no reason to do anything on closing any game or application, provided it's already been saved, which I stated it had.
  #49  
Old October 18th 18, 10:14 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 21:57:02 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Mayayana wrote:
[...]

But to read the posts here it sounds like I
may be the only person who's ever seen a
program close promptly.


Well designed software is perfectly free to close its window and do
any and all cleanup after the window is closed.

It also helps if your machine is not starved for memory (RAM). IIRC
our dear friend Jimmy said that his machine was short on RAM.

Anyway, like Jimmy says, it's all BS. Don't let those so called
experts fool you. So they say they know about memory mangement, virtual
memory, page tables, page files, etc., etc.. It's all BS, I tell ye!
Closing a program - *especially* a game - should take *no* time
whatsoever. Jimmy says so and Jimmy is all-knowing *and* - no **** - has
a 3 digit IQ, probably 3 binary digits, but still!


Explain to me why stopping using a resource should take time.
  #50  
Old October 18th 18, 10:15 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 22:36:26 +0100, nospam wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

Explain to me how it takes time to delete RAM.

what for? you have no clue and only want to troll.


No, I'm asking a sensible question. If you can'; handle that it's your problem.


so you claim, yet you argue with every answer, as you do with
everything.


I only argue when the answers given are insufficient.
  #51  
Old October 18th 18, 10:25 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,549
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On 10/18/2018 4:13 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 22:47:06 +0100, joe wrote:

On 10/17/2018 4:15 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 20:54:35 +0100, nospam
wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

Explain to me how it takes time to delete RAM.

what for? you have no clue and only want to troll.

No, I'm asking a sensible question.* If you can'; handle that it's your
problem.

Have you provided the name of the game or program? Perhaps the issue is
related to a specific game and some of its features. For example, if it
logs into a server it ma take time to properly close that session.

As far as I see, you've asked a vague question making it hard for anyone
to provide sufficient detail in their responses to suit you.


The vague question is sufficient.* There is no reason to do anything on
closing any game or application, provided it's already been saved, which
I stated it had.


I've got one game that's SO fast it closes down before it starts, So
beat That :-)

Rene



  #52  
Old October 18th 18, 11:50 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
joe[_6_]
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Posts: 20
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On 10/18/2018 4:13 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 22:47:06 +0100, joe wrote:

On 10/17/2018 4:15 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 20:54:35 +0100, nospam
wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

Explain to me how it takes time to delete RAM.

what for? you have no clue and only want to troll.

No, I'm asking a sensible question.* If you can'; handle that it's your
problem.

Have you provided the name of the game or program? Perhaps the issue is
related to a specific game and some of its features. For example, if it
logs into a server it ma take time to properly close that session.

As far as I see, you've asked a vague question making it hard for anyone
to provide sufficient detail in their responses to suit you.


The vague question is sufficient.* There is no reason to do anything on
closing any game or application, provided it's already been saved, which
I stated it had.

Then, you'll have to live with equally vague responses. You preclude
anyone wanting to try to replicate the situation you are worried about.
You preclude anyone familiar with the specific game from responding with
first hand experience..
  #53  
Old October 19th 18, 12:17 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

Explain to me how it takes time to delete RAM.

what for? you have no clue and only want to troll.

No, I'm asking a sensible question. If you can'; handle that it's your
problem.


so you claim, yet you argue with every answer, as you do with
everything.


I only argue when the answers given are insufficient.


they've been more than sufficient, some of which were very detailed.

and this isn't the first time you've done this either.
  #54  
Old October 19th 18, 12:29 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 00:17:43 +0100, nospam wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

Explain to me how it takes time to delete RAM.

what for? you have no clue and only want to troll.

No, I'm asking a sensible question. If you can'; handle that it's your
problem.

so you claim, yet you argue with every answer, as you do with
everything.


I only argue when the answers given are insufficient.


they've been more than sufficient, some of which were very detailed.

and this isn't the first time you've done this either.


I've not seen one single answer that explains why it takes time to stop doing something.
  #55  
Old October 19th 18, 12:30 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 23:50:06 +0100, joe wrote:

On 10/18/2018 4:13 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 22:47:06 +0100, joe wrote:

On 10/17/2018 4:15 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 20:54:35 +0100, nospam
wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

Explain to me how it takes time to delete RAM.

what for? you have no clue and only want to troll.

No, I'm asking a sensible question. If you can'; handle that it's your
problem.
Have you provided the name of the game or program? Perhaps the issue is
related to a specific game and some of its features. For example, if it
logs into a server it ma take time to properly close that session.

As far as I see, you've asked a vague question making it hard for anyone
to provide sufficient detail in their responses to suit you.


The vague question is sufficient. There is no reason to do anything on
closing any game or application, provided it's already been saved, which
I stated it had.

Then, you'll have to live with equally vague responses. You preclude
anyone wanting to try to replicate the situation you are worried about.
You preclude anyone familiar with the specific game from responding with
first hand experience..


It happens with more than one program, but The Sims 3 is the prime example.
  #56  
Old October 19th 18, 12:30 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 22:25:41 +0100, Rene Lamontagne wrote:

On 10/18/2018 4:13 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 22:47:06 +0100, joe wrote:

On 10/17/2018 4:15 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 20:54:35 +0100, nospam
wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

Explain to me how it takes time to delete RAM.

what for? you have no clue and only want to troll.

No, I'm asking a sensible question. If you can'; handle that it's your
problem.
Have you provided the name of the game or program? Perhaps the issue is
related to a specific game and some of its features. For example, if it
logs into a server it ma take time to properly close that session.

As far as I see, you've asked a vague question making it hard for anyone
to provide sufficient detail in their responses to suit you.


The vague question is sufficient. There is no reason to do anything on
closing any game or application, provided it's already been saved, which
I stated it had.


I've got one game that's SO fast it closes down before it starts, So
beat That :-)


That must be really fun to play.
  #57  
Old October 19th 18, 12:31 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 22:00:13 +0100, Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:


How can "taking down resources" take anything longer than 0 seconds?


Why do I have to convince you of anything ?

You can believe what you want.

Maybe the computer is magic.

Maybe the computer is sentient and only works slowly
because it knows you hate when that happens.

*******

Let's take Jimmy to the bank.

Jimmy "I'd like 9 dollars please"
Teller "But your account only has 6 dollars sir"

That's resource management. We keep track of
who has what. And the tracking (bookkeeping) takes
time. We cannot give out, what we don't have.
"Out of memory".

Jimmy "I have these 4 dollars left over.
Can you keep them in my savings for later?"
Teller "Yes, sir, here, let me write this down
in the big book. I own Jimmy 4 dollars."
Jimmy "Why are you so slow? Can't you write faster?
Can't you write in zero time?"
Teller "I cannot violate the laws of physics"

That's resource management too.

Can Jimmy roll down his car window and throw
the four dollar bills on the ground ? Yes, he
can. But once the bills are lost, they aren't
in the bank, and we don't know what happened to
them. If we're not careful, we would run out of
currency. Nobody could buy anything. The bills
are rotting in a ditch somewhere. Consequently,
users of the bills realize their importance.

In this case, the situation is "special", in that
the program can return the bills a dollar at a
time as a manual operation (that takes time).
Or, the program can just exit(), just like that.
If exit() happens, the computer "goes through the
books" and it realizes Jimmy used to have 4 dollar
bills. It notes the serial numbers of the bills,
and puts evidence of the bills back into the
accounting system. And that takes time. It's
as if Jimmy never made a withdrawal.

If the bills were allowed to just blow around
the street, Jimmys world would need to be
rebooted once in a while, to put all the bills
back in the bank and start the game all over again.

The details of Jimmys adventures at the bank are
not important here. I'm not trying to make a
realistic lifelike example for you. I'm trying
to point out, that "Jimmy" is not the only
player in the story. It's not "Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy".
There is a "Teller", there is a "Bank". There
is a "Big Book". These things matter, even if
you don't care about them.


You really aren't that bright are you. Managing resources does not count when you're ****stopping**** using them.
  #58  
Old October 19th 18, 01:57 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,549
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On 10/18/2018 6:30 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 22:25:41 +0100, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

On 10/18/2018 4:13 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 22:47:06 +0100, joe wrote:

On 10/17/2018 4:15 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 20:54:35 +0100, nospam
wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

Explain to me how it takes time to delete RAM.

what for? you have no clue and only want to troll.

No, I'm asking a sensible question.* If you can'; handle that it's
your
problem.
Have you provided the name of the game or program? Perhaps the issue is
related to a specific game and some of its features. For example, if it
logs into a server it ma take time to properly close that session.

As far as I see, you've asked a vague question making it hard for
anyone
to provide sufficient detail in their responses to suit you.

The vague question is sufficient.* There is no reason to do anything on
closing any game or application, provided it's already been saved, which
I stated it had.


I've got one game that's SO fast it closes down before it starts, So
beat That* :-)


That must be really fun to play.


Oh yeah, only works with my Delorean Time Machine. :-)


Rene

  #59  
Old October 19th 18, 07:16 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,free.spam
John Doe[_8_]
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Posts: 2,378
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

A troll talking about its special abilities, at the same time
it fails to properly introduce the authors it quotes...

--
"Mayayana" mayayana invalid.nospam wrote:

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Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 16:26:34 -0400
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"Mike" ham789 netscape.net wrote

| I fail to see why even a very complex program takes a long time to stop
| doing things. Stopping something takes no time at all.
|
| This happens with most everything.
| Drive your car down the road at 100 MPH.

I'm curious why so many people keep saying things
like this. Do you have software that lags when you
close it? I don't. If I did I'd certainly be wondering
what it's doing between the time I click the X and
the time the window disappears. I'd be running
regmon, filemon, and monitoring Internet activity
or requests. Oddly, Jimmy doesn't seem to be
interested in checking with those tools.

I have found that if I block software from going
online these days, especially installers, it will typically
seem to freeze as it keeps trying without telling me.
Then after maybe 30 seconds it will just continue,
like a child who's tried to grab a handful of cookies,
couldn't reach them, and now is trying his or her
best to look nonchalant.

I just opened a project in Visual Studio. 30-odd
project files. 40-50 DLLs loaded, according to
ProcExplorer. Two temp files opened. When I close it
the window disappears almost instantly. My most
bloated, slowest, pig of a program is Paint Shop Pro
16. It takes several seconds to load and even the
menus are slow. But when I close it, it's gone almost
instantly.

But to read the posts here it sounds like I
may be the only person who's ever seen a
program close promptly.




  #60  
Old October 19th 18, 07:37 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
John Doe[_8_]
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Posts: 2,378
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
John Doe wrote:
"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote:

When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a
file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it
to do?

It is instantaneous for some programs. Just depends on the
program. Dragon NaturallySpeaking takes a while to close,
because it is a complex program.


I fail to see why even a very complex program takes a long time
to stop doing things. Stopping something takes no time at all.


The power switch works well.

But a power switch doesn't do resource management.

Or, take down resources in an orderly manner (typically single
threaded).


This is not a problem, but... Sometimes Dragon NaturallySpeaking does
not even completely shut down. Have not figured out why. I have a
batch file that helps shut it down.

Could be worse. The last time Windows froze was at least months ago.
Used to be several times per day when I was rough on it. You know,
like deleting files that were unnecessary, before Microsoft decided to
stop letting me delete files that I thought were unnecessary...
Nowadays I never bother looking for those files. Plenty of storage
space. And now my primary and secondary drives are almost fast as RAM!

The original poster is complaining about first world problems.
 




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