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#1
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Install 2nd copy of XP on same computer?
I have a Windows XP Home system with an extra disk drive, and I'm
contemplating installing another copy of XP on it. The reason for this is that HP is implementing more stringent security requirements (including a USB key) for connecting home PCs to the corporate network, and I'd rather keep my personal setup separate from the corporate one. That way, I can use the corporate licenses for Office, etc., and install all of the required security software to keep the IT folks happy, while not disrupting my own security software (which I believe are equal to or better than the IT supported ones, but they're not approved for corporate use) or giving anyone on the company network access to anything on my personal drive. I only need occasional access from home, so I can't justify getting a company-issued system for that purpose. Questions: 1. Can I legitimately install a fresh copy of XP on the other drive, without having to buy an additional license or some such? 2. What impact will this have on product activation? 3. Can I keep the two installations of XP completely ignorant of each other? I.e., when I boot the drive intended to access the corporate network, I don't want it to even recognize the drive devoted to the personal side of my system, and vice-versa. Thanks for any suggestions/input, Mike Lease |
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#2
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Install 2nd copy of XP on same computer?
Mike Lease wrote:
1. Can I legitimately install a fresh copy of XP on the other drive, without having to buy an additional license or some such? Not without violating the EULA. It specifies the installation of a single copy on a single computer. (I don't agree with this limitation, personally, but that is what the EULA clearly says.) 2. What impact will this have on product activation? If it's been less than 120 days since you last activated that specific license, you'll have to activate via telephone, and possibly lie to the call center representative. It depends on what questions get asked. 3. Can I keep the two installations of XP completely ignorant of each other? I.e., when I boot the drive intended to access the corporate network, I don't want it to even recognize the drive devoted to the personal side of my system, and vice-versa. Not without the use of a 3rd-party boot manager, such as System Commander. Dual-booting a Microsoft WinNT-based operating system is very simple, but preventing each installation from seeing the partition of the other installation is not normally necessary, and so the capability hasn't been built into WinXP's native dual-boot capability. -- Bruce Chambers Help us help you: http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once. - RAH |
#3
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Install 2nd copy of XP on same computer?
"Mike Lease" wrote:
I have a Windows XP Home system with an extra disk drive, and I'm contemplating installing another copy of XP on it. The reason for this is that HP is implementing more stringent security requirements (including a USB key) for connecting home PCs to the corporate network, and I'd rather keep my personal setup separate from the corporate one. That way, I can use the corporate licenses for Office, etc., and install all of the required security software to keep the IT folks happy, while not disrupting my own security software (which I believe are equal to or better than the IT supported ones, but they're not approved for corporate use) or giving anyone on the company network access to anything on my personal drive. I only need occasional access from home, so I can't justify getting a company-issued system for that purpose. Questions: 1. Can I legitimately install a fresh copy of XP on the other drive, without having to buy an additional license or some such? It depends on what you mean by "legitimately". Microsoft feels that it is a violation of its End User Licensing Agreement (EULA), although it has not ever tried to prosecute anyone for having more than one installation of the same OS in one computer. Whether it would be successrul in such a hypothetical prosecution is a matter for debate. 2. What impact will this have on product activation? If you're willing to lie, none. 3. Can I keep the two installations of XP completely ignorant of each other? I.e., when I boot the drive intended to access the corporate network, I don't want it to even recognize the drive devoted to the personal side of my system, and vice-versa. Yes. The objective is to selectively make one of the OSes invisible by making its partition invisible. If you have the 2 OSes on different hard drives, put a toggle switch on the power cable of each hard drive, and with the PC's power OFF, you can toggle the switches so that only one or the other hard drive gets power when the PC starts. This will require that each OS's partition has its own boot.ini, ntldr, and ntdetect.com files and that the partition on which they each reside is marked "active". These conditions are satisfied by default if the OSs' partitions are the only partitions on their respective hard drives, and if they were installed without the other being visible during the installation process. In my PC, I use DPDT toggle switches wired as DPST (double pole, single throw). The 12v and 5v (red and yellow) wires run from a female molex connector to/from the switch and then on to the hard drive's power connector. The two "drain" wires (black) run straight to the power connector. To keep things neat, I used 4-conductor cable for the two runs. The switches byGC Electronics, part no. 35-010, rated at 5A @ 28VDC. The dimensions are 1/2" x 1/2" body, 5/8" depth, needing a 1/4" diam. hole panel hole and 1/2" clearance above the panel for the actuating arm. I found a convenient series of 1/4" square holes in the front of my PC's metal chassis under the plastic bezel to mount the switches, and I actuate them with a bent paperclip stuck in through a vent hole in the bezel. Another way you might try (which I haven't tried), is to use Parition Magic to "hide" the other partition. Tell me if this works. :-) *TimDaniels* |
#4
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Install 2nd copy of XP on same computer?
Bruce Chambers wrote:
Mike Lease wrote: 1. Can I legitimately install a fresh copy of XP on the other drive, without having to buy an additional license or some such? Not without violating the EULA. It specifies the installation of a single copy on a single computer. (I don't agree with this limitation, personally, but that is what the EULA clearly says.) Yeah, that's why I specified "legitimately"; I wasn't sure whether it would be kosher (been a while since I looked at the EULA). Since it's not, it appears I need to find another solution. Thanks! -Mike |
#5
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Install 2nd copy of XP on same computer?
1. Can I legitimately install a fresh copy of XP on the other drive, without having to buy an additional license or some such?
This is done all the time, for example, one common usage of this is to be able to backup the XP partition itself, which otherwise couldn't be done. Borland was one of the few companies to state their license agreements correctly (from a legal standpoint), comparing the purchase of software to the purchase of a book. As long as you're not running two or more copies of a software package at the same time, you're not violating any copywright laws. EULA's are usually worthless anyway, as they can't be considered legally binding unless they are clearly referenced or written on the external packaging. The key here is that any aggreements have to be clearly known at the time of purchase, since the purchase is consider the consumation of a contract. Anything contained within the packaging of a product doesn't count, unless it's made clear that you need to open the package and inspect it at the time of purchase. EULA's can't supercede consumer / copywright laws either. Some links: http://www.badsoftware.com/ http://graphicssoft.about.com/cs/faq/a/eula.htm http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/sil...ws/5151944.htm 2. What impact will this have on product activation? None. In the old days, product activation used the serial number of the C:\ partition to determine if software was installed on a different system. Pentium serial numbers could also be used. In the case of XP pro, it appears that it's just a counter. I've upgraded or replaced my computer several times and have had to call in to activate my product only a couple of times. I didn't get any flack from the person doing the activation once I explained I was just upgrading or replacing an existing system. 3. Can I keep the two installations of XP completely ignorant of each other? I.e., when I boot the drive intended to access the corporate network, I don't want it to even recognize the drive devoted to the personal side of my system, and vice-versa. Unless you're using external drives, a power switch, or similar solution, the systmes will be able to access the other partitions. I personally would want it this way so I could easily back up the XP partition itself. |
#6
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Install 2nd copy of XP on same computer?
"Mike Lease" wrote:
[.......] I'd rather keep my personal setup separate from the corporate one.... ...Can I keep the two installations of XP completely ignorant of each other? Another method that I use is called a "caddy" or removable "tray" or "drawer" for one of the hard drives. You can have as many "trays" as you want, each with a hard drive and anything on the hard drive that you want - data partitions and/or OS partitions. I use the Kingwin product which they call an IDE Mobile Rack: http://kingwin.com/pdut_detail.asp?L...teID=25&ID=136 It has a fan built into the base of the tray which keeps my Maxtor 7200rpm DiamondMax Plus 9 hard drive cooler than body temperature - pretty darn cool. You can buy the tray/rack pair for $20 to $24 on the web, and extra trays for $10 to $12. You can remove the tray and substitute another one to change the system's hard drive. The only downside is that you need a spare 5 1/2 inch drive bay to install it. *TimDaniels* |
#7
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Install 2nd copy of XP on same computer?
1. Can I legitimately install a fresh copy of XP on the other drive,
without having to buy an additional license or some such? BTW, I haver a friend with XP installed twice on the same system. He's called tech support at Microsoft and they said this was OK as long as it was the same system. |
#8
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Install 2nd copy of XP on same computer?
"Jeff Reid" wrote:
1. Can I legitimately install a fresh copy of XP on the other drive, without having to buy an additional license or some such? BTW, I haver a friend with XP installed twice on the same system. He's called tech support at Microsoft and they said this was OK as long as it was the same system. LOL! The tech support rep would probably lose his job if this were reported to Microsoft. Microsoft takes its EULA very seriously, and rightly or wrongly, it maintains that only one installation can exist *anywhere* for a single license. Just ask the MVPs, one of whom called me a "scumbag" for expressing an opinion that mutliple copies in the SAME MACHINE were OK legally despite Microsoft's position that it violated copyright law. Now whether the MVPs *really* believe that is another matter... :-) *TimDaniels* |
#9
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Install 2nd copy of XP on same computer?
Microsoft takes its EULA
very seriously, and rightly or wrongly, it maintains that only one installation can exist *anywhere* for a single license. Just ask the MVPs, one of whom called me a "scumbag" for expressing an opinion that mutliple copies in the SAME MACHINE were OK legally despite Microsoft's position that it violated copyright law. Now whether the MVPs *really* believe that is another matter... :-) It doesn't violate copywright law, and I'm not aware of any EULA buried inside a software package that stood up in any court. We'll see how that lady does with her lawsuit against Microsoft, other software companies, Best Buy and other stores (this over the conflicting policy that if a purchaser doesn't agree with the buried EULA inside a software package, they're supposed to return it, but Best Buy won't do returns on opened software). I've had some run-ins with Best Buy myself with defective software (not bad media, but bad software that did not peform as described by it's packaging), fortunately I eventually would encounter a sane customer service manager who gave me a refund. Borland seems to have the only reasonable EULA, which they call their "no-nonsense" agreement, which they compared to a book. A musical cd-rom is a better example. You're not allowed to give copies of the music to friends, but you can take your cd-rom anywhere you want and play it. The key point being that you are not playing more than one instance of the music on the cd-rom at the same time. As long as your PC system doesn't enable you to run multiple copies of XP at the same time, then there shouldn't be a problem with having XP installed on multiple partitions on a single system. Regarding the legal aspect, how could a software company prove that a specific software package even had a EULA pamphlet or sticker inside of it? My understanding is that all binding agreements in these situations have to be made before or at the time of purchase, not afterwards when the user opens up a package. It's reasonable to expect some users to not read anything inside a software package. |
#10
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Install 2nd copy of XP on same computer?
"Jeff Reid" wrote:
Borland seems to have the only reasonable EULA, which they call their "no-nonsense" agreement, which they compared to a book. A musical cd-rom is a better example. You're not allowed to give copies of the music to friends, but you can take your cd-rom anywhere you want and play it. The key point being that you are not playing more than one instance of the music on the cd-rom at the same time. As long as your PC system doesn't enable you to run multiple copies of XP at the same time, then there shouldn't be a problem with having XP installed on multiple partitions on a single system. That is my view entirely, and I practice it. OTOH, I also believe in the protection of intellectual property rights, so I am against making copies to give to friends or to sell to the public, and you probably agree with that, too. What I think Microsoft is worried about is the possibility of a sever loading a single OS to each PC in a LAN without a multiple license, and it refuses to budge on its stance that multiple copies are a violation of Natural Law! thunder, rumble, rattle, rattle. :-) *TimDaniels* |
#11
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Install 2nd copy of XP on same computer?
Jeff Reid wrote:
EULA's are usually worthless anyway, as they can't be considered legally binding unless they are clearly referenced or written on the external packaging. The key here is that any aggreements have to be clearly known at the time of purchase, since the purchase is consider the consumation of a contract. Anything contained within the packaging of a product doesn't count, unless it's made clear that you need to open the package and inspect it at the time of purchase. That's completely wrong, at least in the United States. A federal appeals court ruled long ago that software EULAs in general are binding contracts under the Uniform Commercial Code. And the general terms of WinXP's EULA are displayed on the box, anyway, not that the law requires this. Procd, Inc. v. Zeidenberg http://www.law.emory.edu/7circuit/june96/96-1139.html -- Bruce Chambers Help us help you: http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once. - RAH |
#12
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Install 2nd copy of XP on same computer?
Jeff Reid wrote:
It doesn't violate copywright law, and I'm not aware of any EULA buried inside a software package that stood up in any court. Actually, I've only ever heard of one EULA ever having been found in violation of the law. The rest remain binding contracts until specifically and separately found to be invalid. -- Bruce Chambers Help us help you: http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once. - RAH |
#13
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Install 2nd copy of XP on same computer?
As long as your PC system doesn't enable you to run
multiple copies of XP at the same time, then there shouldn't be a problem with having XP installed on multiple partitions on a single system. That is my view entirely, and I practice it. OTOH, I also believe in the protection of intellectual property rights, so I am against making copies to give to friends or to sell to the public, and you probably agree with that, too. What I think Microsoft is worried about is the possibility of a sever loading a single OS to each PC in a LAN without a multiple license, and it refuses to budge on its stance that multiple copies are a violation of Natural Law! Yes I agree with this, this would be the case of being able to run multiple copies of XP, even if on a single box. |
#14
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Install 2nd copy of XP on same computer?
EULA's are usually worthless anyway, as they can't be considered legally
binding unless they are clearly referenced or written on the external packaging. The key here is that any aggreements have to be clearly known at the time of purchase, since the purchase is consider the consumation of a contract. Anything contained within the packaging of a product doesn't count, unless it's made clear that you need to open the package and inspect it at the time of purchase. That's completely wrong, at least in the United States. A federal appeals court ruled long ago that software EULAs in general are binding contracts under the Uniform Commercial Code. And the general terms of WinXP's EULA are displayed on the box, anyway, not that the law requires this. It depends on how the EULA is presented to the consumer. If it's buried on the back page of some pamphlet, and no mention of it is made anywhere else, it won't stand up. The stickers attached to bags or cd-roms aren't a good idea because you can't prove there every package shipped had one of these sticker attached, especially if some store (like Fry's) accepts returns of opened software and then just reseals them and puts them back on the shelf for sale, possibly missing any EULA agreement within the package (it's definately gone if it was a sticker, as Fry's reseals the stuff). EULA's can't supercede existing copywright or consumer laws. They can't take away the right to get a refund if the product is defective (doensn't perform as stated on the package). Many states also allow you to get a refund for incidental damages, like the cost of shipping when returning a product. Consequential damages (damage caused by trying to use the product) are the toughest to get money back for. My personal experience was with a version of Turbo Tax that didn't run on Windows NT (previous and follow year versions worked just fine). Intuit refunded my money for both the purchase and the cost of shipping (although I had to send requests to two different addresses). One of the issues being brought up in that lawsuit I mentioned is the hidden clause and catch 22 aspect of many EULA's. You don't find out about these until after the purchase. In addition, many stores won't refund your money after you find out because it's "opened software". |
#15
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Install 2nd copy of XP on same computer?
It doesn't violate copywright law, and I'm not aware of
any EULA buried inside a software package that stood up in any court. Actually, I've only ever heard of one EULA ever having been found in violation of the law. The rest remain binding contracts until specifically and separately found to be invalid. EULA's that go beyond copywright laws, like stating you can't sell the software to any person (assuming you've deleted any copy of the software you had before the time of sale), will be troublesome to enforce. In most of the cases I'm aware of where severe restrctions are imposed with the purchase of a software product (like a floating license), a signed contract is involved. Ovbiously the software makers in these cases feel that passive EULAs are inadequate. EULA's can't violate consumer laws. EULA's that claim the software doesn't have to work (not fit for purpose), violate fraud laws. The software has to work as described by the packaging on the box, and without causing damage. The example here is that you buy a toaster, but after you open it up, there's a disclaimer that the toaster is for decorative purposes only, and not guaranteed to operate at all or not cause damage, and it turns out that the toaster isn't going to work, would cause a fire, or electricute the user. In this case the consumer would be entitled to a refund, even if the package was opened. If it turns out that the design of the product was likely to cause damage, and did cause damage, there would be grounds for a lawsuit. Although technically not a EULA, store policies that violate consumer laws (like no refund policies) are a similar example. Toys R Us (in England I think) just lost a lawsuit over this. There are pendig lawsuits over these store policies world wide. And there's that pending catch-22 lawsuit over the conflict between EULA's contained in software packages and stores that won't refund money on opened software. |
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