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Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 5th 16, 11:11 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Micky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 380
Default Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management

How am I supposed to get more than 4 partitons?
Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management

I must be confused, but I've created 3 primary partitions on the new
harddrive, and when I wanted to make an extended partition, Easus PM
(dl'd only a week ago) only had two choices, Primary and Logical.

I fell for it and made a logical partition and then couldnt understand
why I coudln't subdivide it. I'd forgotten the word extended, but I
remember it now. I deleted the logical partition and tried to make an
extended one, but that wasn't a choice!!

My gosh it's not mentioned in the Help for Win Disk Management either.
How am I supposed to get more than 4 partitons?
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  #2  
Old August 5th 16, 01:21 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management

Micky wrote:
How am I supposed to get more than 4 partitons?
Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management

I must be confused, but I've created 3 primary partitions on the new
harddrive, and when I wanted to make an extended partition, Easus PM
(dl'd only a week ago) only had two choices, Primary and Logical.

I fell for it and made a logical partition and then couldnt understand
why I coudln't subdivide it. I'd forgotten the word extended, but I
remember it now. I deleted the logical partition and tried to make an
extended one, but that wasn't a choice!!

My gosh it's not mentioned in the Help for Win Disk Management either.
How am I supposed to get more than 4 partitons?


Picture confirming the strange design of that tool.

http://www.partition-tool.com/images...to-logical.gif

Notice, in the example, the three green ones on the right are Logical.
And the person making the example, is converting partition I: to logical.
That will require re-dimensioning the Extended, and putting the Logical
inside it. The new logical I: , fits neatly on the left hand side
of the Extended envelope. That's why they picked I: for their example,
because it makes sense as a candidate for being logical.

If they had clicked C: and selected "Convert to logical", as you know,
there is only a maximum of one Extended per disk. So that request would
have been denied.

Paul
  #3  
Old August 5th 16, 01:37 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management

| How am I supposed to get more than 4 partitons?
| Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management
|

I've never seen a disk management program like
that. Usually Extended is an explicit option. Extended
is an empty Primary that can hold any number of
Logical partitions. It looks like Easus is hiding the details
in an attempt to simplify. It then fills the Extended
with the first Logical you make, which makes no sense.
There's no point in have an Extended if it just holds
1 Logical. The only option I can think of is to then
resize your Logical and put another Logical next to it.



  #4  
Old August 5th 16, 02:25 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
JJ[_11_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 744
Default Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management

On Fri, 05 Aug 2016 06:11:59 -0400, Micky wrote:
How am I supposed to get more than 4 partitons?
Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management

I must be confused, but I've created 3 primary partitions on the new
harddrive, and when I wanted to make an extended partition, Easus PM
(dl'd only a week ago) only had two choices, Primary and Logical.

I fell for it and made a logical partition and then couldnt understand
why I coudln't subdivide it. I'd forgotten the word extended, but I
remember it now. I deleted the logical partition and tried to make an
extended one, but that wasn't a choice!!

My gosh it's not mentioned in the Help for Win Disk Management either.
How am I supposed to get more than 4 partitons?


For MBR HDD, the root partition table is limited to 4 entries. Entries can
either be Primary or Extended.

The Primary partition is the partition that directly contains a file system.

An Extended partition is merely a container for one Primary and one Extended
partition - where the child Extended partition may contain another Primary
and Extended partitions (just like its parent Extended partition). In a
partition table (MBR/EMBR), there can be only one Extended partition and it
doesn't need to be the last entry.

A logical partition is a Primary partition listed in a partition table of an
Extended partition (EMBR), so a logical partition requires an Extended
partition as its container. IOTW, an Extended partition's data is one or
more Primary/Extended partitions.

A layout of a HDD with more than 4 partitions (that contains a file system)
would be like this.

HDD MBR:
Partition1=Primary=FAT32
Partition2=Primary=Ext4
Partition3=Primary=NTFS
Partition4=Extended (EMBR):
Partition5=Primary=HFS+
Partition6=Extended (EMBR):
Partition7=Primary=JFS

Total:
Partition table entries = 7
Volume partitions = 5

In Easus, creating a logical partition means that an Extended partition will
be automatically created when necessary. This is just to simply things so
that you don't have to create the mandatory Extended partition manually.

And yes. The software documentation doesn't tell everything you need to
know. Not every partition manager softwares do.
  #5  
Old August 5th 16, 02:39 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management

| The Primary partition is the partition that directly contains a file
system.
|

Not necessarily. One can have a Primary
data partition. Many OSs can also be installed
to logical partitions. (That's the only way I've
ever installed Linux.)

| An Extended partition is merely a container for one Primary and one
Extended
| partition - where the child Extended partition may contain another Primary
| and Extended partitions (just like its parent Extended partition).

An Extended counts as a Primary. It does not hold
a Primary. It holds Logical by definition. There's no need
to get into complicated details.

*There can be 4 Primaries.
One of those can be Extended. Extended can hold any
number of Logical, each with any kind of formatting.
Some OSs must be installed to a Primary partition.*

That's pretty much the whole story. Micky just needs
to know that Easus is not being clear and that his Logical
partition is necessarily contained in an Extended.


  #6  
Old August 5th 16, 03:48 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Dave C[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 70
Default Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management

On Fri, 05 Aug 2016 06:11:59 -0400, Micky wrote:

How am I supposed to get more than 4 partitons?
Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management

I must be confused, but I've created 3 primary partitions on the new
harddrive, and when I wanted to make an extended partition, Easus PM
(dl'd only a week ago) only had two choices, Primary and Logical.

I fell for it and made a logical partition and then couldnt understand
why I coudln't subdivide it. I'd forgotten the word extended, but I
remember it now. I deleted the logical partition and tried to make an
extended one, but that wasn't a choice!!

My gosh it's not mentioned in the Help for Win Disk Management either.
How am I supposed to get more than 4 partitons?


For Linux, GParted is fairly clear and does the job. For windows, there
is an excellent third party utility called Mini Partition Wizard Free.
This has more options than I have tried and works really well.
  #7  
Old August 5th 16, 06:34 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 14:48:02 -0000 (UTC), Dave C wrote:

On Fri, 05 Aug 2016 06:11:59 -0400, Micky wrote:

How am I supposed to get more than 4 partitons?
Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management

I must be confused, but I've created 3 primary partitions on the new
harddrive, and when I wanted to make an extended partition, Easus PM
(dl'd only a week ago) only had two choices, Primary and Logical.

I fell for it and made a logical partition and then couldnt understand
why I coudln't subdivide it. I'd forgotten the word extended, but I
remember it now. I deleted the logical partition and tried to make an
extended one, but that wasn't a choice!!

My gosh it's not mentioned in the Help for Win Disk Management either.
How am I supposed to get more than 4 partitons?


For Linux, GParted is fairly clear and does the job. For windows, there
is an excellent third party utility called Mini Partition Wizard Free.
This has more options than I have tried and works really well.


+1 for MiniTool Partition Wizard Free

I've used it quite a bit and never had any problems with it.

Link to its tutorial page:
https://www.partitionwizard.com/help...on-wizard.html


--

Char Jackson
  #8  
Old August 6th 16, 03:47 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management

Micky wrote:

How am I supposed to get more than 4 partitons?
Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management


With MBR (Master Boot Record), you can only have 4 *physical* partitions
on a device (disk). That's it! The partition type can be primary or
extended. There can can 1 to 4 primary partitions. There can be a
maximum of 1 extended partition per device. The MBR only has 4 records
for physical partitions. That is why there is a limit of 4 physical
partitions of whatever type when using an MBR.

The physical partitions (primary and extended) are tracked or defined by
the 4 partition records within the partition table within the MBR.
Logical drives are tracked or defined by structures defined *within* an
extended partition.

If you have 4 physical partitions already defined in the MBR, you
reached the maximum number of partition records available in its
partition table. Are all those physical partitions of the primary type?
If so, you have no extended partitions within which you can define
logical drives. If one of them is an extended partition type then you
can define logical drives within that extended partition.

For more information, read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_boot_record
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_p...nded_partition

I must be confused, but I've created 3 primary partitions on the new
harddrive, and when I wanted to make an extended partition, Easus PM
(dl'd only a week ago) only had two choices, Primary and Logical.


It is helping you too much. An extended partition with no logical
drives defined with it is wasting disk space. An extended partition is
a superstructure to encompass the definition of logical drives within
that partition. There is no point in creating an extended partition
unless you ALSO create a logical drive within it. So the tool is
eliminating asking you to create an extended partition and then asking
you to create a logical drive within the extended partition. Instead it
just asks if you want to create a logical drive and, if so, then it will
create the extended partition, if missing, and add the logical drive's
definition within the extended partition.

If you elect to create a logical drive, either an extended partition
must already exist or one must be created. The logical drive resides
within an extended partition.

I fell for it and made a logical partition and then couldnt understand
why I coudln't subdivide it. I'd forgotten the word extended, but I
remember it now. I deleted the logical partition and tried to make an
extended one, but that wasn't a choice!!


There can only be 1 extended partition on a disk when using MBR. So if
there is already a physical partition of the extended partition type
then you cannot create another one. You would have to delete the
extended partition to create a new one.

If you define the logical drive to consume all of the space inside the
extended partition then you have no more room to define more logical
drives inside that partition. With physical partitions, you cannot
assign more space to them altogether than the physical space available
on the disk. With logical drives, you cannot assign more space to them
altogether than the physical size of the extended partition.

As I recall (but I did not check), only primary partitions can be marked
"active" so the BIOS knows which one to use its boot sector to load an
OS. The active-flagged primary partition boots the OS (well, at least
the the boot loader for the OS).

MBR
..---------------------------------.
| Primary partition #1 |
|---------------------------------|
| Primary partition #2 [optional] |
|---------------------------------|
| Primary partition #3 [optional] |
|---------------------------------|
| Extended partition |
| .-----------------------------. |
| | Logical drive #1 | |
| |-----------------------------| |
| | Logical drive #2 [optional] | |
| |-----------------------------| |
| : : |
| : : |
| |-----------------------------| |
| | last logical drive | |
| '-----------------------------' |
'---------------------------------'

My gosh it's not mentioned in the Help for Win Disk Management either.
How am I supposed to get more than 4 partitons?


You can't when using MBR. There are only 4 partition records in which
you can define 1 to 4 physical partitions (primary or 1 extended). If
you want more *logical drives* within an extended partition than you
either have to make them smaller to make free space WITHIN the extended
partition for a new logical drive or you have to enlarge the extended
partition (perhaps by shrinking the other physical partitions) so there
is room inside of it for a new logical drive.

So just what partition *types* are currently defined on your disk? How
many of them are primary partitions? Is one of them an extended
partition type?
  #9  
Old August 6th 16, 08:50 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Micky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 380
Default Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 14:48:02 -0000 (UTC), Dave C
wrote:

On Fri, 05 Aug 2016 06:11:59 -0400, Micky wrote:

How am I supposed to get more than 4 partitons?
Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management

I must be confused, but I've created 3 primary partitions on the new
harddrive, and when I wanted to make an extended partition, Easus PM
(dl'd only a week ago) only had two choices, Primary and Logical.

I fell for it and made a logical partition and then couldnt understand
why I coudln't subdivide it. I'd forgotten the word extended, but I
remember it now. I deleted the logical partition and tried to make an
extended one, but that wasn't a choice!!

My gosh it's not mentioned in the Help for Win Disk Management either.
How am I supposed to get more than 4 partitons?


For Linux, GParted is fairly clear and does the job. For windows, there
is an excellent third party utility called Mini Partition Wizard Free.


Actually I think that's the one I just noticed on the Hiren's disk. I
know it started with Mini.

This has more options than I have tried and works really well.


I made what is supposed to be a clone of the active partition. There
should have been a boot menu but there isn't. But for testing, I was
going to make the new partition active and see if it boots. Then came
the warning that I might never be able to boot the disk again. That
seems rather alarmist since it's not Never, and they could have
pointed out booting from another source and changing which part. is
active. But it scared me enough to go check that Hirens had
something good on it. It probably has 3 or 4 but this one was a
windows program, with a GUI. and probably easier to use.
  #10  
Old August 6th 16, 08:57 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Micky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 380
Default Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 08:37:18 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| How am I supposed to get more than 4 partitons?
| Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management
|

I've never seen a disk management program like
that. Usually Extended is an explicit option. Extended
is an empty Primary that can hold any number of
Logical partitions. It looks like Easus is hiding the details
in an attempt to simplify.


From this answer and all the others, I'm convinced of that now.

It's nice to be simple, but if they had put one short entry in their
help file (and they have a standard help file) under Extended.

To simplify things, we have eliminated the need to create
extended partitions. Just make logical ones and we'll fill in
the rest.


That would have helped.

It then fills the Extended
with the first Logical you make, which makes no sense.
There's no point in have an Extended if it just holds
1 Logical. The only option I can think of is to then
resize your Logical and put another Logical next to it.

  #11  
Old August 6th 16, 09:08 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Micky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 380
Default Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 21:47:55 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

Micky wrote:

How am I supposed to get more than 4 partitons?
Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management


With MBR (Master Boot Record), you can only have 4 *physical* partitions
on a device (disk). That's it! The partition type can be primary or
extended. There can can 1 to 4 primary partitions. There can be a
maximum of 1 extended partition per device. The MBR only has 4 records
for physical partitions. That is why there is a limit of 4 physical
partitions of whatever type when using an MBR.

The physical partitions (primary and extended) are tracked or defined by
the 4 partition records within the partition table within the MBR.
Logical drives are tracked or defined by structures defined *within* an
extended partition.

If you have 4 physical partitions already defined in the MBR, you
reached the maximum number of partition records available in its
partition table. Are all those physical partitions of the primary type?
If so, you have no extended partitions within which you can define
logical drives. If one of them is an extended partition type then you
can define logical drives within that extended partition.

For more information, read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_boot_record
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_p...nded_partition

I must be confused, but I've created 3 primary partitions on the new
harddrive, and when I wanted to make an extended partition, Easus PM
(dl'd only a week ago) only had two choices, Primary and Logical.


It is helping you too much. An extended partition with no logical
drives defined with it is wasting disk space. An extended partition is
a superstructure to encompass the definition of logical drives within
that partition. There is no point in creating an extended partition
unless you ALSO create a logical drive within it. So the tool is
eliminating asking you to create an extended partition and then asking
you to create a logical drive within the extended partition. Instead it
just asks if you want to create a logical drive and, if so, then it will
create the extended partition, if missing, and add the logical drive's
definition within the extended partition.

If you elect to create a logical drive, either an extended partition
must already exist or one must be created. The logical drive resides
within an extended partition.

I fell for it and made a logical partition and then couldnt understand
why I coudln't subdivide it. I'd forgotten the word extended, but I
remember it now. I deleted the logical partition and tried to make an
extended one, but that wasn't a choice!!


There can only be 1 extended partition on a disk when using MBR. So if
there is already a physical partition of the extended partition type
then you cannot create another one. You would have to delete the
extended partition to create a new one.

If you define the logical drive to consume all of the space inside the
extended partition then you have no more room to define more logical
drives inside that partition. With physical partitions, you cannot
assign more space to them altogether than the physical space available
on the disk. With logical drives, you cannot assign more space to them
altogether than the physical size of the extended partition.

As I recall (but I did not check), only primary partitions can be marked
"active" so the BIOS knows which one to use its boot sector to load an
OS. The active-flagged primary partition boots the OS (well, at least
the the boot loader for the OS).

MBR
.---------------------------------.
| Primary partition #1 |
|---------------------------------|
| Primary partition #2 [optional] |
|---------------------------------|
| Primary partition #3 [optional] |
|---------------------------------|
| Extended partition |
| .-----------------------------. |
| | Logical drive #1 | |
| |-----------------------------| |
| | Logical drive #2 [optional] | |
| |-----------------------------| |
| : : |
| : : |
| |-----------------------------| |
| | last logical drive | |
| '-----------------------------' |
'---------------------------------'

My gosh it's not mentioned in the Help for Win Disk Management either.
How am I supposed to get more than 4 partitons?


I appreciate your detailed very helpful post, but I have to take issue
with this one point, at least semantically.

You can't when using MBR. There are only 4 partition records in which
you can define 1 to 4 physical partitions (primary or 1 extended). If


You're not counting logical partitions as partitions. You call them
logical drives but I've seen them called partitions.

It reminds me of the question Abe Lincoln used to ask.

How many legs does a horse have if you call its tail a leg?

you want more *logical drives* within an extended partition than you
either have to make them smaller to make free space WITHIN the extended
partition for a new logical drive or you have to enlarge the extended
partition (perhaps by shrinking the other physical partitions) so there
is room inside of it for a new logical drive.

So just what partition *types* are currently defined on your disk? How
many of them are primary partitions? Is one of them an extended
partition type?


Four. Calling it a leg doesn't make it a leg.

But a leg is more well defined than a partition.

So I let Easus do it, and it seems to be fine, and I went into Windows
Computer Management and before I had looked at actions or something
and didn't notice that at the bottom there was a legend that included
dark green for extended partition. And indeed, my 3 little
partitions together are so marked.

Thanks and thanks all of you.

  #12  
Old August 6th 16, 09:23 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Micky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 380
Default Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 21:47:55 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:



So just what partition *types* are currently defined on your disk? How
many of them are primary partitions? Is one of them an extended
partition type?


I have 3 primary, 1 extended with 3 logical.

Earlier today, I cloned the C partition to the D using XXClone and I
just checked and it boots just fine, except that there is no boot menu
yet. But if I change the active partition, D boots just find (but
with different wallpaper, an XXClone option so you can keep track of
which partition you are using.)

So things are going well. Again, thank you all for your help.
  #13  
Old August 6th 16, 12:26 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management

Micky wrote:

You're not counting logical partitions as partitions. You call them
logical drives but I've seen them called partitions.


The physical partitions are the only *partitions* on the disks. That's
because they are the only objects that can be defined in the *partition*
records in the *partition* table. The structures defined within an
extended partition are not partitions. They are drives or perhaps also
called volumes. They are NOT partitions within the extended partition.

[There are] Four [partitions].


Then you cannot create another partition. You have used up all 4
*partition* records in the *partition* table within the MBR.

From your other reply, you have the maximum of 4 physical partitions so
all 4 partition records are consumed in the MBR: 3 primary and 1
extended. Within the extended partition, you have 4 logical drive
structures defined. Whether all of the extended partition's space got
consumed by the 3 logical drive structures within it is yet unknown. To
create yet another logical drive means:

- There is unused (unallocated) space inside the extended partition that
you can use to create another logical drive.
- You will have to resize the logical drives inside the extended
partition to free up some space so there is then unallocated space
inside the extended partition to create another logical drive within
it.
- You enlarge the extended partition to give it unallocated space inside
of it to which you can assign a logical drive. If the 4 physical
partitions (3 primary, 1 extended) have consumed all spaced on the
disk then you will have to shrink one, or more, of the primary
partitions so you can enlarge the extended partition.

Because EPM gave you the choice of creating another logical drive inside
the extended partition, you have some unallocated space inside the
extended partition. Whether it is enough space depends on what purpose
you intend for the new logical drive.

So I let Easus do it, ...


Since you want to get into "semantics", the tool from Easeus is actually
called Partition MASTER [Pro], not Partition Management [Pro].

http://www.easeus.com/partition-manager/epm-free.html
http://www.easeus.com/partition-manager/epm-pro.html

You didn't bother to mention if you are using the freeware or payware
version.
  #14  
Old August 26th 16, 10:16 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Micky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 380
Default Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 20:25:37 +0700, JJ wrote:

On Fri, 05 Aug 2016 06:11:59 -0400, Micky wrote:
How am I supposed to get more than 4 partitons?
Extended Partitions not found on Easus Partition Management

I must be confused, but I've created 3 primary partitions on the new
harddrive, and when I wanted to make an extended partition, Easus PM
(dl'd only a week ago) only had two choices, Primary and Logical.

I fell for it and made a logical partition and then couldnt understand
why I coudln't subdivide it. I'd forgotten the word extended, but I
remember it now. I deleted the logical partition and tried to make an
extended one, but that wasn't a choice!!

My gosh it's not mentioned in the Help for Win Disk Management either.
How am I supposed to get more than 4 partitons?


For MBR HDD, the root partition table is limited to 4 entries. Entries can
either be Primary or Extended.

The Primary partition is the partition that directly contains a file system.

An Extended partition is merely a container for one Primary and one Extended
partition - where the child Extended partition may contain another Primary
and Extended partitions (just like its parent Extended partition). In a
partition table (MBR/EMBR), there can be only one Extended partition and it
doesn't need to be the last entry.

A logical partition is a Primary partition listed in a partition table of an
Extended partition (EMBR), so a logical partition requires an Extended
partition as its container. IOTW, an Extended partition's data is one or
more Primary/Extended partitions.

A layout of a HDD with more than 4 partitions (that contains a file system)
would be like this.

HDD MBR:
Partition1=Primary=FAT32
Partition2=Primary=Ext4
Partition3=Primary=NTFS
Partition4=Extended (EMBR):
Partition5=Primary=HFS+
Partition6=Extended (EMBR):
Partition7=Primary=JFS

Total:
Partition table entries = 7
Volume partitions = 5

In Easus, creating a logical partition means that an Extended partition will
be automatically created when necessary. This is just to simply things so
that you don't have to create the mandatory Extended partition manually.


You've convinced me.

And yes. The software documentation doesn't tell everything you need to
know. Not every partition manager softwares do.


I guess that was my problem. I assumed it woudl explain.

Thanks.
 




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