Dell and their old hardware

In message , VanguardLH
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

VanguardLH WROTE:

https://engineering.purdue.edu/ECN/S...DellModelYears

Note when they say the 170L was introduced. Yep, back in 2004.
That is hardly just "a few years" ago. That was *14 YEARS AGO*!!!
Doesn't matter when YOU got the computer. The introduction year is
from when you measure the support duration.

Strictly, _I_ would measure from when they ceased selling it (as a new
product at least), rather than the introduction year. (However, with
the rapid evolution, those may often be the same: I don't know if
Dell keep models on sale for longer than a year.)

They could resell almost the same hardware but with just one piddly
change to make it a new model. Note that when you last can get a new
(unused) model from a retailer is NOT when Dell stopped production of

The "they" in my text meant Dell themselves not resellers.

that model. Retailer inventory can take awhile to sell out. You can

[I don't think the word "out" us needed there (-:]

still buy refurbished but ancient models of Dell. You can still buy
them with Windows XP pre-installed.

I think Dell themselves may sell refurbs as well (though I suspect not
XP now!); since I wasn't sure whether they did or not, that's why I
included "(as new product)" in what I said above.

I would amend my statement to "The last year of manufacture is from when
you measure the support duration." From the article that I found, they

That I'm fine with (-:

claimed "Historically, Dell changed OptiPlex models every 12-18 months".
Well, since the Optiplex 170L was introduced in 2004 and generously
allotting 3 years for the period of manufacture, the last one rolled out
of Dell's doors on, or before, 2007 which is 11 years ago. The OP's "in
a few years" for support ending still isn't valid. 11 years isn't a few
years. To the OP, retaining every piece of software ever produced by a
vendor doesn't qualify as support hence all that software should be
available forever and for free no matter the cost to the vendor.
Although not found using the tag number in Dell's support site, Dell
*is* still providing the downloads for Windows XP, the OS for which that
model was designed and only supported, some 11+ years after end of
manufacture.

I wasn't disagreeing with your general point!

Remo Williams: How old are you? I mean really, you are old, now aren't you?
Chiun: For an apricot, yes.
For a head of lettuce, even more so.
For a mountain, I have not even begun in years.
For a man, I am just right.
(Quote from the movie "Remo Williams: The Adventure Begins".)

I like it!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to recognize a mistake when
you make it again. -Franklin P. Jones

wrote:
On Sat, 05 May 2018 21:38:41 -0400, Paul
wrote:

wrote:
Good Guy beat me up here a few days ago and called me names because I
said Dell was not supporting their old hardware. I just had another
case today.
Dell 170L, tag DWVL1B1 that was shipped with XP but they do not list
any XP drivers when I look on the web site and they do not list
drivers for W/7 and up either. This is simply an abandoned product.
Buy a dell, in a few years they say go to hell.

1) Good Guy calls everyone names.
2) The specs for the thing, don't make it a particularly
strong candidate. Any web browser or Flash video acceleration you
want to do, the platform is gutless. The chipset is 865GV (graphics value),
and that may be missing the AGP slot it needs. So you can't even shop
Ebay for a bridged HD3450 of yesteryear and fit that. The only card I have
in the house for a project like this, is an FX5200 PCI (which of course will
stutter when you move pixmaps around the screen). This particular platform
could be characterized as "bus-starved".

https://www.cnet.com/products/dell-o...b-40-gb/specs/

That's really better off with WinXP, simply because you shouldn't
spend a thin dime trying to "make that into a computer".

I would at least want a processor with Hyperthreading on it, to make
"two fake cores" for an OS like Windows 7, but the FSB400 of the
platform tells you that's not going to happen.

I love old computers, and I have a collection to match. But in terms
of sticking an "unappreciative" person in front of it, no, that
would be wrong. I have a perfectly good 1.1GHz platform with enough
RAM to run Windows 7, but only I would "enjoy the lethargy". Others
may not share my sense of humor.

I bet it would make a good Solitaire machine though. WinXP Solitaire
would fly on it.

If they hadn't ruined web browsers in the way that they have, the
project would have more value. When the graphics acceleration "falls
back" on a software path, a gutless single core CPU is just the wrong
thing to answer the call.

Dell can't offer an 865GV driver, unless the hardware maker (Intel)
offers one.

Your point is still valid, that Dell doesn't support platforms forever,
but this would be the wrong platform as an exemplar. The computing
industry made sure the hardware would go obsolete. Intel plays quite
a part in this, by offering garbage like 865GV. They should have
stuck to 865G as the minimum SKU on chipsets, so the customer would
at least have an AGP slot for graphics upgrades. A machine with no
useful slots, is kinda a dead end even on the day you take delivery.
And that's what makes it "bus starved", no upgrade-ability to speak of.

Paul

It is just going to be an MP3 player, replacing a similar Dell that
has developed some kind of hardware problem on the board that I
haven't found (reseated CPU and swapped out SIMMs, no joy)
It came to me with 7 on it but I was thinking about saving that drive
in a bag and loading XP to match what I have.
I may just run it on 7 for now and see how it goes.

My laptop is an example.

It shipped with Win7 on it.

The same idea. Shortsighted hardware sales. The laptop
was actually a prize in some contest. The recipient didn't
particularly develop an attachment to it, and it was given
to me.

The thing is, when the OS is pristine, it almost looks like
a good deal. But as soon as I install a Canon inkjet driver
and a Logitech webcam driver, it is perceptibly slower.

The processor, even though it's a bit more modern vintage
of AMD hardware (memory connected directly to processor),
compute wise it's little better than an AthlonXP 3200. And
like your Celeron 2400, is a "bit weak". If I keep the two
software packages in question, off the machine, then it
rates an "OK", but it's hardly encouraging that such
slight modification turns it into a pig.

The processor is a V120, and has a single core.

When you run Win10 on that machine, it's fine...
as long as you don't plug in the network cable :-)
The very definition of useless :-) One core is
simply no match for Windows Defender scanning,
Windows Update scanning, Superfetch, Search Indexer.
If you could tame the maintenance activity, it
might be almost usable.

Paul

On Sun, 6 May 2018 02:06:40 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

The OP's "in
a few years" for support ending still isn't valid. 11 years isn't a few
years.

If I was in a Windows 10 Newsgroup that would make some sense. ;-)

On Sun, 06 May 2018 04:29:03 -0400, Paul
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 05 May 2018 21:38:41 -0400, Paul
wrote:

wrote:
Good Guy beat me up here a few days ago and called me names because I
said Dell was not supporting their old hardware. I just had another
case today.
Dell 170L, tag DWVL1B1 that was shipped with XP but they do not list
any XP drivers when I look on the web site and they do not list
drivers for W/7 and up either. This is simply an abandoned product.
Buy a dell, in a few years they say go to hell.

1) Good Guy calls everyone names.
2) The specs for the thing, don't make it a particularly
strong candidate. Any web browser or Flash video acceleration you
want to do, the platform is gutless. The chipset is 865GV (graphics value),
and that may be missing the AGP slot it needs. So you can't even shop
Ebay for a bridged HD3450 of yesteryear and fit that. The only card I have
in the house for a project like this, is an FX5200 PCI (which of course will
stutter when you move pixmaps around the screen). This particular platform
could be characterized as "bus-starved".

https://www.cnet.com/products/dell-o...b-40-gb/specs/

That's really better off with WinXP, simply because you shouldn't
spend a thin dime trying to "make that into a computer".

I would at least want a processor with Hyperthreading on it, to make
"two fake cores" for an OS like Windows 7, but the FSB400 of the
platform tells you that's not going to happen.

I love old computers, and I have a collection to match. But in terms
of sticking an "unappreciative" person in front of it, no, that
would be wrong. I have a perfectly good 1.1GHz platform with enough
RAM to run Windows 7, but only I would "enjoy the lethargy". Others
may not share my sense of humor.

I bet it would make a good Solitaire machine though. WinXP Solitaire
would fly on it.

If they hadn't ruined web browsers in the way that they have, the
project would have more value. When the graphics acceleration "falls
back" on a software path, a gutless single core CPU is just the wrong
thing to answer the call.

Dell can't offer an 865GV driver, unless the hardware maker (Intel)
offers one.

Your point is still valid, that Dell doesn't support platforms forever,
but this would be the wrong platform as an exemplar. The computing
industry made sure the hardware would go obsolete. Intel plays quite
a part in this, by offering garbage like 865GV. They should have
stuck to 865G as the minimum SKU on chipsets, so the customer would
at least have an AGP slot for graphics upgrades. A machine with no
useful slots, is kinda a dead end even on the day you take delivery.
And that's what makes it "bus starved", no upgrade-ability to speak of.

Paul

It is just going to be an MP3 player, replacing a similar Dell that
has developed some kind of hardware problem on the board that I
haven't found (reseated CPU and swapped out SIMMs, no joy)
It came to me with 7 on it but I was thinking about saving that drive
in a bag and loading XP to match what I have.
I may just run it on 7 for now and see how it goes.

My laptop is an example.

It shipped with Win7 on it.

The same idea. Shortsighted hardware sales. The laptop
was actually a prize in some contest. The recipient didn't
particularly develop an attachment to it, and it was given
to me.

The thing is, when the OS is pristine, it almost looks like
a good deal. But as soon as I install a Canon inkjet driver
and a Logitech webcam driver, it is perceptibly slower.

The processor, even though it's a bit more modern vintage
of AMD hardware (memory connected directly to processor),
compute wise it's little better than an AthlonXP 3200. And
like your Celeron 2400, is a "bit weak". If I keep the two
software packages in question, off the machine, then it
rates an "OK", but it's hardly encouraging that such
slight modification turns it into a pig.

The processor is a V120, and has a single core.

When you run Win10 on that machine, it's fine...
as long as you don't plug in the network cable :-)
The very definition of useless :-) One core is
simply no match for Windows Defender scanning,
Windows Update scanning, Superfetch, Search Indexer.
If you could tame the maintenance activity, it
might be almost usable.

Paul

Considering I will be running what is essentially DOS software that
will lump along on a 486 and screams on a P1/133 I don't think it is
all that resource hungry. If the DOS networking was just a little
better I would be running 6.3. This ran W/98 for years and XP talks to
that just fine. W/7 is when the networking got more finicky

gfretwell wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

The OP's "in a few years" for support ending still isn't valid. 11
years isn't a few years.

If I was in a Windows 10 Newsgroup that would make some sense. ;-)

How is you posting in a newsgroup have ANYTHING to do with how long a
manufacture should support a discontinued product? 11 years is still 11
years no matter where you choose to post.

On Sun, 6 May 2018 13:24:50 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

gfretwell wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

The OP's "in a few years" for support ending still isn't valid. 11
years isn't a few years.

If I was in a Windows 10 Newsgroup that would make some sense. ;-)

How is you posting in a newsgroup have ANYTHING to do with how long a
manufacture should support a discontinued product? 11 years is still 11
years no matter where you choose to post.

This is a nostalgia newsgroup talking about a software product that
was replaced almost a decade ago.

wrote:

On Sun, 6 May 2018 13:24:50 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

gfretwell wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

The OP's "in a few years" for support ending still isn't valid. 11
years isn't a few years.

If I was in a Windows 10 Newsgroup that would make some sense. ;-)

How is you posting in a newsgroup have ANYTHING to do with how long a
manufacture should support a discontinued product? 11 years is still 11
years no matter where you choose to post.

This is a nostalgia newsgroup talking about a software product that
was replaced almost a decade ago.

New or nostalgic, this newsgroup has nothing to do with the policies of
manufactures regarding their support of discontinued products. You
stated that manufacturers should be supporting an archive long after a
product has been discontinued. Nostalgia doesn't factor into their
business decisions.

Lucky for you, Dell still does have a working page for the XP downloads.
That their own search didn't find that page hints that the page and its
file downloads is a remnant and was simply forgotten. Could disappear
when they do get around to some web server cleanup. That a manufacturer
provides downloads after a product is discontinued is a courtesy, not a
requirement (other than if mandated by law, like for automobile parts).