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#1
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Help for a friend
A dear old friend called me in a panic -- "my computer won't boot".
Windows 10 on an 8-year-old PC. I walked him though all the repair/restore/reset options and nothing worked. Any thoughts as to what is wrong? Since he needs to pay bills online no later than Thursday, I suggested he go out and buy a new computer, and set it up for the most important tasks. And then we can consider getting his files off the old HD onto the new. What do you think? Please, no snarky remarks. We're both 83 y.o. and have lost a few brain cells. No, he hasn't made any backups although he did copy some files to thumb drives. Oh, he lives an hour away and doesn't drive at night. I hardly drive at all these days. Thanks. |
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#2
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Help for a friend
Wellllllll, he rebooted one more time and guess what?
Alek wrote on 12/4/2017 5:12 PM: A dear old friend called me in a panic -- "my computer won't boot". Windows 10 on an 8-year-old PC. I walked him though all the repair/restore/reset options and nothing worked. Any thoughts as to what is wrong? Since he needs to pay bills online no later than Thursday, I suggested he go out and buy a new computer, and set it up for the most important tasks. And then we can consider getting his files off the old HD onto the new. What do you think? Please, no snarky remarks. We're both 83 y.o. and have lost a few brain cells. No, he hasn't made any backups although he did copy some files to thumb drives. Oh, he lives an hour away and doesn't drive at night. I hardly drive at all these days. Thanks. |
#3
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Help for a friend
On 12/04/2017 05:43 PM, Alek wrote:
Wellllllll, he rebooted one more time and guess what? Alek wrote on 12/4/2017 5:12 PM: A dear old friend called me in a panic -- "my computer won't boot". Windows 10 on an 8-year-old PC. I walked him though all the repair/restore/reset options and nothing worked. Any thoughts as to what is wrong? Since he needs to pay bills online no later than Thursday, I suggested he go out and buy a new computer, and set it up for the most important tasks. And then we can consider getting his files off the old HD onto the new. What do you think? Please, no snarky remarks. We're both 83 y.o. and have lost a few brain cells. No, he hasn't made any backups although he did copy some files to thumb drives. Oh, he lives an hour away and doesn't drive at night. I hardly drive at all these days. Thanks. Heat? Hurry with the new computer and make a backup with Macrium or such, ASAP! That's my 2cents.. |
#4
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Help for a friend
Big Al wrote:
On 12/04/2017 05:43 PM, Alek wrote: Wellllllll, he rebooted one more time and guess what? Alek wrote on 12/4/2017 5:12 PM: A dear old friend called me in a panic -- "my computer won't boot". Windows 10 on an 8-year-old PC. I walked him though all the repair/restore/reset options and nothing worked. Any thoughts as to what is wrong? Since he needs to pay bills online no later than Thursday, I suggested he go out and buy a new computer, and set it up for the most important tasks. And then we can consider getting his files off the old HD onto the new. What do you think? Please, no snarky remarks. We're both 83 y.o. and have lost a few brain cells. No, he hasn't made any backups although he did copy some files to thumb drives. Oh, he lives an hour away and doesn't drive at night. I hardly drive at all these days. Thanks. Heat?Â*Â* Hurry with the new computer and make a backup with Macrium or such, ASAP! That's my 2cents.. And tell your friend that many public libraries have computer rooms these days, where you can use one for free. Our one gives you a 1-hour slot. Ed |
#5
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Help for a friend
On 12/4/2017 5:46 PM, Big Al wrote:
On 12/04/2017 05:43 PM, Alek wrote: Wellllllll, he rebooted one more time and guess what? Alek wrote on 12/4/2017 5:12 PM: A dear old friend called me in a panic -- "my computer won't boot". Windows 10 on an 8-year-old PC. I walked him though all the repair/restore/reset options and nothing worked. Any thoughts as to what is wrong? Since he needs to pay bills online no later than Thursday, I suggested he go out and buy a new computer, and set it up for the most important tasks. And then we can consider getting his files off the old HD onto the new. What do you think? Please, no snarky remarks. We're both 83 y.o. and have lost a few brain cells. No, he hasn't made any backups although he did copy some files to thumb drives. Oh, he lives an hour away and doesn't drive at night. I hardly drive at all these days. Thanks. Heat?Â*Â* Hurry with the new computer and make a backup with Macrium or such, ASAP! That's my 2cents.. I would second the motion. Once you start having boot problems the count down starts for the end of the computer. I have had several computers that I was able to get through several "won't boot" episodes but eventually had to replace the computer. The last one went "POP" during the final attempt. If he is just using it for email, and online banking he does not need a high end computer and should be able to get a new one for 3 to 5 hundred dollars. Since he probably has not done much customization to the OS, all he needs to worry about is his data files which are mostly stored in My Documents (Windows OS. For things like Firefox and Thunderbird, if he backs up each of the profiles for the USER folder, he will not loose anything. If he is using one of the Mozilla products, he can back up all of his web settings by copying the Profile for TB and FF to an external disk. If he has a limited budget I would also recommend that he get at minimum of 32 GB thumb drive and back up all of his data files. If he wants he could buy a 1TB external drive for less that $100 though my guess is he does not need that much storage space. A good, easy to use back up program is available at https://www.2brightsparks.com/downlo...cbackfree.html Which will work with a thumb drive, or other types of external storage. Just because the boot sector is bad or corrupted, does not mean that the disk can not be used. The easiest way to transfer data, is to buy a USB Disk enclosure for the old disk. The old disk can then be plugged into the USB port of the new computer and the files copied to his new computer. I have been using a "failed" laptop drive for years as an external backup drive One point, to make a disk image (Macrium) is probably over kill for the way he uses the computer. With a disk failure, (Improbable in his lifetime with a new computer, at least at 74 that's the way I see it) the OS, and All of the programs can be reinstalled either from the manufacturer website or the installation CD. If you do a complete re installation you get start fresh with none of the garage that you have collected over the years and a chance to review the settings of all of you programs. -- 2017: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre |
#6
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Help for a friend
Alek wrote:
A dear old friend called me in a panic -- "my computer won't boot". Windows 10 on an 8-year-old PC. I walked him though all the repair/restore/reset options and nothing worked. Your friend didn't burn a CD from Microsoft when he downloaded the ISO image? If your friend bought a pre-built computer with a pre-installed instance of Windows 10, why can't he use the install CD or rescue partition to do a repair install or even a full fresh install? Any thoughts as to what is wrong? Since he needs to pay bills online no later than Thursday, I suggested he go out and buy a new computer, and set it up for the most important tasks. And then we can consider getting his files off the old HD onto the new. Where does your friend pay bills online that the same companies won't accept phone calls to perform an ACH electronic transfer from his bank? The "online payments" are going to perform ACH transfers from his bank so call them up to have them perform it manually. What do you think? Your friend doesn't have OTHER friends with a computer? This friend doesn't have any closer computer-capable friends not so tight on their schedules that they could come over to help? Does this friend have a smartphone? They could use the the web browser on their smartphone (but do it from a home wi-fi and not on some public wi-fi hotspot). If your friend is okay with using a the library computers (just use the terminals that aren't wifi-connected) then have your friend trek to the library. Have your friend try to erase any locally cached data after he is done (or ask the librarian if the kiosk-mode terminal wipes all session data after the session is ended). |
#7
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Help for a friend
On 12/04/2017 06:21 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
all he needs to worry about is his data files which are mostly stored in My Documents (Windows OS.Â* For things like Firefox and Thunderbird, if he backs up each of the profiles for the USER folder, he will not loose anything. I just checked my personal folder (only user) and It's like 8Gig. So yes, A simple 16 or 32G thumb would easily copy that. And a good number of programs drop config files into that user folder. And yes, Macrium is only good if the drive is going bad. My overkill. |
#8
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Help for a friend
Ed Cryer wrote on 12/4/2017 6:07 PM:
Big Al wrote: On 12/04/2017 05:43 PM, Alek wrote: Wellllllll, he rebooted one more time and guess what? Alek wrote on 12/4/2017 5:12 PM: A dear old friend called me in a panic -- "my computer won't boot". Windows 10 on an 8-year-old PC. I walked him though all the repair/restore/reset options and nothing worked. Any thoughts as to what is wrong? Since he needs to pay bills online no later than Thursday, I suggested he go out and buy a new computer, and set it up for the most important tasks. And then we can consider getting his files off the old HD onto the new. What do you think? Please, no snarky remarks. We're both 83 y.o. and have lost a few brain cells. No, he hasn't made any backups although he did copy some files to thumb drives. Oh, he lives an hour away and doesn't drive at night. I hardly drive at all these days. Thanks. Heat?Â*Â* Hurry with the new computer and make a backup with Macrium or such, ASAP! That's my 2cents.. And tell your friend that many public libraries have computer rooms these days, where you can use one for free. Our one gives you a 1-hour slot. Ed I wouldn't recommend paying bills with a public computer. |
#9
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Help for a friend Off Topic
One point, to make a disk image (Macrium) is probably over kill for the way he uses the computer. As I was writing the above, I was reminded of an old joke. 8 year old Billy comes home from school and ask his Father: "Where did I come from?" The Father has been dreading the day that "The Subject" would come up, but decide to take it straight on, and gave the little boy the whole lecture on where babies come from, down to the smallest detail. Billy listens but has trouble staying his father's talk. After about a half hour of explanation, the Father ask Billy if he has any questions. Billy responded: "I just wanted to know where I come from. My friend Pete comes from Cleveland" -- 2017: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre |
#10
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Help for a friend
Thanks.
VanguardLH wrote on 12/4/2017 6:33 PM: Alek wrote: A dear old friend called me in a panic -- "my computer won't boot". Windows 10 on an 8-year-old PC. I walked him though all the repair/restore/reset options and nothing worked. Your friend didn't burn a CD from Microsoft when he downloaded the ISO image? If your friend bought a pre-built computer with a pre-installed instance of Windows 10, why can't he use the install CD or rescue partition to do a repair install or even a full fresh install? Any thoughts as to what is wrong? Since he needs to pay bills online no later than Thursday, I suggested he go out and buy a new computer, and set it up for the most important tasks. And then we can consider getting his files off the old HD onto the new. Where does your friend pay bills online that the same companies won't accept phone calls to perform an ACH electronic transfer from his bank? The "online payments" are going to perform ACH transfers from his bank so call them up to have them perform it manually. What do you think? Your friend doesn't have OTHER friends with a computer? This friend doesn't have any closer computer-capable friends not so tight on their schedules that they could come over to help? Does this friend have a smartphone? They could use the the web browser on their smartphone (but do it from a home wi-fi and not on some public wi-fi hotspot). If your friend is okay with using a the library computers (just use the terminals that aren't wifi-connected) then have your friend trek to the library. Have your friend try to erase any locally cached data after he is done (or ask the librarian if the kiosk-mode terminal wipes all session data after the session is ended). |
#11
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Help for a friend
Alek wrote:
Wellllllll, he rebooted one more time and guess what? Alek wrote on 12/4/2017 5:12 PM: A dear old friend called me in a panic -- "my computer won't boot". Windows 10 on an 8-year-old PC. I walked him though all the repair/restore/reset options and nothing worked. Any thoughts as to what is wrong? Since he needs to pay bills online no later than Thursday, I suggested he go out and buy a new computer, and set it up for the most important tasks. And then we can consider getting his files off the old HD onto the new. What do you think? Please, no snarky remarks. We're both 83 y.o. and have lost a few brain cells. No, he hasn't made any backups although he did copy some files to thumb drives. Oh, he lives an hour away and doesn't drive at night. I hardly drive at all these days. Thanks. The Windows "repair" routine at boot time, is a *three* pass process. Each time the computer fails to boot, the repair process tries different things. So after three boot attempts, this is what it's done... 1) first failure, maybe repair the BCD. 2) second failure ??? 3) third failure runs CHKDSK, and it reads each and every stinking sector. This is why you don't want that C: partition to be 1TB large. Keep your C: partition down to maybe 60GB or so, and then the third repair pass will take less time. If you try to reboot over and over again, the third attempt will be slower than the others. After three attempts, it'll give up and tell you to call a priest. ******* Note that Macrium Reflect Free, the emergency boot CD that the program makes, it has a menu item called "boot repair". That's similar to (1) above. I've discovered, by various dumb experiments, that the combination of doing the Macrium boot repair, followed by the Windows boot repair, increases the odds of the partition booting again. Exactly what's going on there, I haven't a clue. And if you only do one of the two (use Macrium by itself), neither of them gets it right all by themselves. But a one-two punch seems to work. This is mainly for cases where the BCD got corrupted somehow. And in cases where I was working on this, I wasn't really in a mood for forensics, and seeing what broke :-) If you boot the Windows installer DVD, or if you boot the emergency boot CD that the "Windows 7 backup" dialog offers, there is a maintenance icon in there that handles repair. So you can check that out for fun, if you're not booting. Startup Repair on Windows CD or DVD https://www.tenforums.com/attachment...up_options.png From this article https://www.tenforums.com/attachment...up_options.png If you want to manually invoke Startup Repair, there's an icon for that. ******* Let's take a dumb example: 1) User tried three times to boot. Call a priest message shows up. Uh oh. 2) Boot emergency CD and open Command Prompt. You can run CHKDSK from there if you want, or fool around. 3) Boot Macrium Reflect Free CD. Run the boot repair. 4) Boot the Windows emergency CD or the Windows installer DVD. Find the Startup Repair icon and finish what Macrium started. On your next reboot, it might boot again. There is actually a metric ton of fun things to do now, when the computer is broken. In (2) for example, you can do an offline DISM run (repair WinSXS), or do an offline sfc /scannow. As well as do offline BCD work. (The boot repair will have already tried this in (1) so you don't have to.) There have been some improvements over what the other OS versions support. HTH, Paul |
#12
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Help for a friend
On 04/12/2017 23:07, Ed Cryer wrote:
And tell your friend that many public libraries have computer rooms these days, where you can use one for free. Our one gives you a 1-hour slot. Ed You're lucky. Where I live in the UK they start charging you as soon as you sit down - £1 for every 20 minutes. jim |
#13
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Help for a friend
On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 18:42:24 -0500, Alek
wrote: Ed Cryer wrote on 12/4/2017 6:07 PM: Big Al wrote: On 12/04/2017 05:43 PM, Alek wrote: Wellllllll, he rebooted one more time and guess what? Alek wrote on 12/4/2017 5:12 PM: A dear old friend called me in a panic -- "my computer won't boot". Windows 10 on an 8-year-old PC. I walked him though all the repair/restore/reset options and nothing worked. Any thoughts as to what is wrong? Since he needs to pay bills online no later than Thursday, I suggested he go out and buy a new computer, and set it up for the most important tasks. And then we can consider getting his files off the old HD onto the new. What do you think? Please, no snarky remarks. We're both 83 y.o. and have lost a few brain cells. No, he hasn't made any backups although he did copy some files to thumb drives. Oh, he lives an hour away and doesn't drive at night. I hardly drive at all these days. Thanks. Heat?** Hurry with the new computer and make a backup with Macrium or such, ASAP! That's my 2cents.. And tell your friend that many public libraries have computer rooms these days, where you can use one for free. Our one gives you a 1-hour slot. Ed I wouldn't recommend paying bills with a public computer. +1 bentot |
#14
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Help for a friend
Thanks but this is too sophisticated for him. Also, his nearest
grandkids are TWO hours away. (Mine is FIVE but her mom and dad and aunt and uncle are computer pros :-) Paul wrote on 12/4/2017 7:07 PM: Alek wrote: Wellllllll, he rebooted one more time and guess what? Alek wrote on 12/4/2017 5:12 PM: A dear old friend called me in a panic -- "my computer won't boot". Windows 10 on an 8-year-old PC. I walked him though all the repair/restore/reset options and nothing worked. Any thoughts as to what is wrong? Since he needs to pay bills online no later than Thursday, I suggested he go out and buy a new computer, and set it up for the most important tasks. And then we can consider getting his files off the old HD onto the new. What do you think? Please, no snarky remarks. We're both 83 y.o. and have lost a few brain cells. No, he hasn't made any backups although he did copy some files to thumb drives. Oh, he lives an hour away and doesn't drive at night. I hardly drive at all these days. Thanks. The Windows "repair" routine at boot time, is a *three* pass process. Each time the computer fails to boot, the repair process tries different things. So after three boot attempts, this is what it's done... 1) first failure, maybe repair the BCD. 2) second failure ??? 3) third failure runs CHKDSK, and it reads each and every stinking sector. This is why you don't want that C: partition to be 1TB large. Keep your C: partition down to maybe 60GB or so, and then the third repair pass will take less time. If you try to reboot over and over again, the third attempt will be slower than the others. After three attempts, it'll give up and tell you to call a priest. ******* Note that Macrium Reflect Free, the emergency boot CD that the program makes, it has a menu item called "boot repair". That's similar to (1) above. I've discovered, by various dumb experiments, that the combination of doing the Macrium boot repair, followed by the Windows boot repair, increases the odds of the partition booting again. Exactly what's going on there, I haven't a clue. And if you only do one of the two (use Macrium by itself), neither of them gets it right all by themselves. But a one-two punch seems to work. This is mainly for cases where the BCD got corrupted somehow. And in cases where I was working on this, I wasn't really in a mood for forensics, and seeing what broke :-) If you boot the Windows installer DVD, or if you boot the emergency boot CD that the "Windows 7 backup" dialog offers, there is a maintenance icon in there that handles repair. So you can check that out for fun, if you're not booting. Startup Repair on Windows CD or DVD https://www.tenforums.com/attachment...up_options.png From this article https://www.tenforums.com/attachment...up_options.png If you want to manually invoke Startup Repair, there's an icon for that. ******* Let's take a dumb example: 1) User tried three times to boot. Call a priest message shows up. Uh oh. 2) Boot emergency CD and open Command Prompt. You can run CHKDSK from there if you want, or fool around. 3) Boot Macrium Reflect Free CD. Run the boot repair. 4) Boot the Windows emergency CD or the Windows installer DVD. Find the Startup Repair icon and finish what Macrium started. On your next reboot, it might boot again. There is actually a metric ton of fun things to do now, when the computer is broken. In (2) for example, you can do an offline DISM run (repair WinSXS), or do an offline sfc /scannow. As well as do offline BCD work. (The boot repair will have already tried this in (1) so you don't have to.) There have been some improvements over what the other OS versions support. HTH, Paul |
#15
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Help for a friend
jbm wrote:
On 04/12/2017 23:07, Ed Cryer wrote: And tell your friend that many public libraries have computer rooms these days, where you can use one for free. Our one gives you a 1-hour slot. Ed You're lucky. Where I live in the UK they start charging you as soon as you sit down - £1 for every 20 minutes. Wow! That's steep. In Gloucestershire they're all free one hour slots. You even get free volunteer computer buddies to help if you're struggling. The only thing they charge for is printing. -- Bob Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. - Winston Churchill |
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