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#31
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telephone hackers - can we upload something?
Ken Blake wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jul 2018 13:02:07 -0500, VanguardLH wrote: Ed Cryer wrote: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: In message , Mayayana writes: "Ken Blake" wrote | There are many "poor sods trying to make a living" with whom I don't | sympathize--bank robbers, hired killers, mafia members, and so on. *This is really only a UK problem. The majority of the calls I get are scams. Both state and federal gov't have stopped enforcing DoNotCall lists. But CallerID means I never have to answer scam calls in the first place. In the UK they don't seem to have a CallerID function. We've had one for years. There are even 'phones you can buy that screen calls based on them (you press a button to add them to your blocklist). We call it CLI - calling line identification. (Not sure why - maybe CallerID might be confused with the criminal investigation department!) I don't see why _I_ should pay out for such a 'phone, though. The CLIs are often spoofed though - for example, calls obviously from Asia show as UK ones, or they show as ones which if called back are non-existent. I've tried to argue that the telecomm.s companies are participating in the deception by passing on these faked CLIs (which ought to be detectable), but unsurprisingly I haven't got anywhere. *But I agree with you. I always hang up on bank robbers without so much as a how do you do. (-: I'll repeat it in case the thread wander has diverted attention from it, but I still suspect the answer's no (as I can't think how it would work), but: anyone think of a way we could upload something to their systems? (If only a list of numbers to call - including the private lines of their prime minister and the heads of crime families, and every police station in their country ...) Have some harmless fun. Do you remember the old dial-up connection sound? Record this; https://youtu.be/PDE9b5iU8vI and keep it handy on a phone or tablet. Next time you get a call, just give a whistle and play it into the mic. Ed (:- If you have an answering machine (where you can listen to new calls to screen them by waiting for someone to start leaving a message and then pick up the handset if you want to talk to them), you could add the "service disconnected" tone to the beginning of your outgoing voicemail message. I recommend that instead you use the free NoMoRoBo (https://www.nomorobo.com/). It works very well. Mentioned yesterday in my first reply. Also mentioned using Google Voice which also has a blacklist of spam numbers. I use NoMoRobo with my cell phone and my aunt uses it on her home phone. I use Google Voice for my home phone but NoMoRobo won't combine with Google Voice (to combine the two blacklists). NoMoRobo is oriented to robodialers (not to all spam callers). Google Voice is more about spam whether by originated by a robodialer or human. |
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#32
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telephone hackers - can we upload something?
Mayayana wrote:
He seems to be talking about a landline, which is what many of us are using. Nomorobo characterizes VOIP as a landline, but they're of no use for an actual landline. https://nomorobo.zendesk.com/hc/en-u...-does-it-work- Depends on whether your telco support simultaneous ring. The telco must ring BOTH your phone and NoMoRobo at the same time. Caller ID info is sent between the 1st and 2nd ring. If NoMoRobo's lookup detects the caller is a robodialer then NoMoRobo picks up the call (so you'll hear one ring and nothing more); else, your phone continues to ring. Even if your telco supports simultaneous ring and it is part of your service tier (i.e., you have full service, not some basic plan), it might be an option that you need to enable. https://nomorobo.zendesk.com/hc/en-u...are-supported- My guess of why NoMoRobo works with most VOIP and not with many of the telcos is that the telcos don't support simultaneous ring. I just tested by adding a phone to my NoMoRobo account (but cancelled before finishing) to see what was their list of supported landline/VOIP carriers, which a 1-VOIP Adams Cable Service Astound Broadband AT&T (traditional landline) AT&T U-Verse Broadvoice Cable One CenturyLink (internet voice) CenturyLink (traditional landline) Cincinnati Bell (internet voice) Cincinnati Bell (traditional landline) Co-Mo Connect Comcast XFINITY Cox ECFiber EPB Fiber Optics Fairpoint Frontier Google Voice - WHAT! Now they work with them? I'll have to test! Hawaiian Telcom magicJack - Yet they still have an article saying they won't work. Ooma Optimum/CableVision Optimum/CableVision Business PhonePower RCN Ring Central SELCO Service Electrical Cable TV Service Electrical Cablevision Skype Sonic.NET Spectrum (formerly BrightHouse) Spectrum (formerly Charter) Spectrum (formerly Time Warner) SureWest (internet voice) Verizon (traditional landline) Verizon FiOS Digital Voice Voicepulse Voip.ms Voipo Vonage Wave Broadband Windstream Other (internet voice) Other (traditional landline) They have the Other categories to cover all other providers - BUT those others must support and have enable the simultaneous ring feature. Simultaneous ring is also how Google Voice works. You can designate one, or more, phone numbers for Google Voice to ring when there is an incoming phone call to your Google Voice number. Using simultaneous ringing, Google Voice can ring your home phone(s), cell phone(s), work phone(s), or any phones you want all at the same time. You can even schedule when some phone will ring and when they will not, like having Google Voice ring your work phone only during the hours when you will be at your workplace. With NoMoRobo, simultaneous ring must be available and enabled at the called number (i.e., your phone number). Your provider is doing the simultaneous ringing to your phone and to NoMoRobo. With Google Voice, calls to there have Google Voice simultaneously ringing all your listed phones. Without simultaneous ring, these PBX-like services won't work. Simultaneous ring has been traditionally something associated with a PBX, so telcos often did not provide that feature unless you implemented it at your site by adding hardware. Note that while some are ISPs provide voice service, they are not a VOIP service. They operate as a telco. Your voice traffic is NOT traversing the Internet. For example, Comcast Voice is not a VOIP service. You are using an eMTA with Comcast Voice, not a VOIP adapter. The eMTA (embedded Multimedia Terminal Adapter) is an embedded ATA (analog telephone adapter) incorported into the cable modem. magicJack is definitely VOIP. I do sometimes, however, tend to lump the ISP voice providers operating as telcos along with VOIP providers but I know I'm being inaccurate. Visually both are using the cable modem but the user may be unaware that a voice-capable cable modem has an eMTA. VOIP is Voice Over Internet Protocol which means VOIP traverses the Internet hence why quality suffers due to routing through various hosts, and connecting to landlines using VOIP requires the VOIP provider have gear at the telco exchanges to convert from VOIP to regular telephony (and why it took years for magicJack to work everywhere in the USA while they were implanting their converters at the telcos). |
#33
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telephone hackers - can we upload something?
On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 17:26:55 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote: In message , Ken Blake writes: [] I recommend that instead you use the free NoMoRoBo (https://www.nomorobo.com/). It works very well. Looks like an excellent service! Unfortunately: 1. I suspect it's US (and Canada?) only. I'm not sure, but I think you're right. [Rather silly: I had to select from a list of providers, at the bottom of which was "other (landline)"; when I selected that, it popped up "sorry, 'other (landline)' doesn't support noroboco yet." Which made me wonder why they've put it in the list.] 2. It appears only to be for robot (automatic) callers. I suspect that wouldn't stop the "there is something wrong with your computer" evils. Yes. It doesn't do everything but what it does, it does well. |
#34
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telephone hackers - can we upload something?
On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 12:06:58 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
Ken Blake wrote: On Fri, 20 Jul 2018 13:02:07 -0500, VanguardLH wrote: Ed Cryer wrote: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: In message , Mayayana writes: "Ken Blake" wrote | There are many "poor sods trying to make a living" with whom I don't | sympathize--bank robbers, hired killers, mafia members, and so on. Â*This is really only a UK problem. The majority of the calls I get are scams. Both state and federal gov't have stopped enforcing DoNotCall lists. But CallerID means I never have to answer scam calls in the first place. In the UK they don't seem to have a CallerID function. We've had one for years. There are even 'phones you can buy that screen calls based on them (you press a button to add them to your blocklist). We call it CLI - calling line identification. (Not sure why - maybe CallerID might be confused with the criminal investigation department!) I don't see why _I_ should pay out for such a 'phone, though. The CLIs are often spoofed though - for example, calls obviously from Asia show as UK ones, or they show as ones which if called back are non-existent. I've tried to argue that the telecomm.s companies are participating in the deception by passing on these faked CLIs (which ought to be detectable), but unsurprisingly I haven't got anywhere. Â*But I agree with you. I always hang up on bank robbers without so much as a how do you do. (-: I'll repeat it in case the thread wander has diverted attention from it, but I still suspect the answer's no (as I can't think how it would work), but: anyone think of a way we could upload something to their systems? (If only a list of numbers to call - including the private lines of their prime minister and the heads of crime families, and every police station in their country ...) Have some harmless fun. Do you remember the old dial-up connection sound? Record this; https://youtu.be/PDE9b5iU8vI and keep it handy on a phone or tablet. Next time you get a call, just give a whistle and play it into the mic. Ed (:- If you have an answering machine (where you can listen to new calls to screen them by waiting for someone to start leaving a message and then pick up the handset if you want to talk to them), you could add the "service disconnected" tone to the beginning of your outgoing voicemail message. I recommend that instead you use the free NoMoRoBo (https://www.nomorobo.com/). It works very well. Mentioned yesterday in my first reply. OK. Sorry, I must have missed it. Also mentioned using Google Voice which also has a blacklist of spam numbers. I use NoMoRobo with my cell phone and my aunt uses it on her home phone. I use Google Voice for my home phone but NoMoRobo won't combine with Google Voice (to combine the two blacklists). NoMoRobo is oriented to robodialers (not to all spam callers). Yes. Google Voice is more about spam whether by originated by a robodialer or human. |
#35
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telephone hackers - can we upload something?
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
Ken Blake: I recommend that instead you use the free NoMoRoBo (https://www.nomorobo.com/). It works very well. Looks like an excellent service! Unfortunately: 1. I suspect it's US (and Canada?) only. [Rather silly: I had to select from a list of providers, at the bottom of which was "other (landline)"; when I selected that, it popped up "sorry, 'other (landline)' doesn't support noroboco yet." Which made me wonder why they've put it in the list.] 2. It appears only to be for robot (automatic) callers. I suspect that wouldn't stop the "there is something wrong with your computer" evils. Yep, NoMoRobo is all about robotic dialing hence its name versus Google Voice which has an anti-spam blacklist regardless how the call is originated. I'm not surprised a New York state located company for NoMoRobo that generates no revenue (other than for their Android app) only works in the USA (don't know about them in Canada). They were one of the winners of an FTC (yep, part of the USA) competition on controlling robodialers. As noted before, another option is Google Voice but that only works in the USA and Canada. This is Usenet, so your location is unknown for your posts unless you explicitely mention your location. Expect respondents to note solutions that work in their location (I'm in the continental USA). Sorry, I don't bother keeping personal bios on Usenet posters. Looks like your screwed by not having similar services (to NoMoRobo or Google Voice) in your location. If I was there, maybe I'd know more about what was available in your location. You're stuck with whatever features your phone provider includes in your service tier (e.g., call blocking on anonymous callers and/or blacklists that you have to update), or immediately pushing all calls to voicemail (to screen all) or an option to accept calls that are screened and dump them into voicemail if not accepted, or using an answering machine with a screen feature and perhaps adding the SIT tone at the beginning of your outgoing message. Review what features your phone provider includes, how to configure their voicemail (if you use it), or see if an answering machine works to push all calls to voicemail (you can interrupt to accept a screened call). If your ISP has voice service, you might want to look into what they offer, especially regarding screening or filters. I got Google Voice at a time when my ISP had nothing close to the same feature set. Back then all you got was voice service and voicemail. My ISP has improved significantly on its voice features, like adding simultaneous ringing, so I could use my ISP's voice service very much like how I use Google Voice - EXCEPT my ISP's voice service has not anti-spam blacklist (other than me manually adding blocked numbers). Are you trying to avoid spam callers on a home phone or cell phone? On my cell phone, the default ringtone is "silent". That is, by default, my cell phone does not ring. For my contacts, I assign a ringtone for them. In fact, on my phone, all my contacts are in a default Contacts group. I define more groupings (but I haven't the need for it ... yet). I can assign a default ringtone per group, so I defined a ringtone for the Contacts group. When a call comes in on my cell phone from one of my contacts, my cell phone rings. All other calls are silent and the caller either hangs up (typical of robodialers that hang up after 3 rings) or gets shoved into voicemail. Spammers end up in voicemail or they went away before voicemail started. Non-contact callers can leave a voice message. If they don't leave a message, their call was unimportant. My cell phone rings for my contacts, so I can pick up the call or let it go to voicemail. For everyone else, their only choice is to leave voicemail. While I haven't checked, it's possible some answering machine could do the same: set your phone's ringer to silent and have the answering machine ring only for callers in your contacts list stored in the answering machine. If your phone service has the feature of sending you an e-mail when a new voicemail was left, you could set your phone to silent and wait for e-mail notifications about new calls. Whether a contact, someone you know, or spammer, some users take the stance that if a caller doesn't leave a message then the call was unimportant. That means a caller must leave a message if they want to contact you, and you'll get an e-mail about their new message. While NoMoRobo is available (to some) to filter out the robodialers, their method is publicly available to the telco and wireless carriers. Others could implement the feature but they choose not to involve themselves in filtering your calls. https://www.consumerreports.org/cons...rent-doing-it/ |
#36
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telephone hackers - can we upload something?
To see if there is something in your location that offers features
similar to Google Voice, you could search online on: google voice alternative yourcity yourstate yourcountry I just did a similar search which found articles reviewing several alternative services. Alas, in the articles that I read, all the alternatives cost money. Google Voice is free (and so is NoMoRobo other than when using their Android app). Your own ISP might have voice service with similar features but likely without the spam blacklist. |
#37
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telephone hackers - can we upload something?
"VanguardLH" wrote
| He seems to be talking about a landline, which is what many of us are | using. Nomorobo characterizes VOIP as a landline, but they're of no | use for an actual landline. | | https://nomorobo.zendesk.com/hc/en-u...-does-it-work- | | Depends on whether your telco support simultaneous ring. The telco must | ring BOTH your phone and NoMoRobo at the same time. Am I missing something? I have a landline. There's no computer connection. It's not VOIP. It's just a wire coming into the house. So how is the phone company going to ring nomorobo? I assume nomorobo has to be installed to a compter (VOIP) or cellphone. It's unnecessarily confusing to call VOIP a landline. It's not. It's Internet phone. The only other way I could imagine this working on a landline would be if I arranged with my phone company to call nomorobo every time I get a call. That would be far more creepy than getting spam calls. |
#38
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telephone hackers - can we upload something?
In message , VanguardLH
writes: [] My guess of why NoMoRobo works with most VOIP and not with many of the telcos is that the telcos don't support simultaneous ring. I just tested by adding a phone to my NoMoRobo account (but cancelled before finishing) to see what was their list of supported landline/VOIP carriers, which a 1-VOIP Adams Cable Service Astound Broadband AT&T (traditional landline) AT&T U-Verse Broadvoice Cable One CenturyLink (internet voice) CenturyLink (traditional landline) [] Other (internet voice) Other (traditional landline) They have the Other categories to cover all other providers - BUT those others must support and have enable the simultaneous ring feature. I selected "Other (traditional landline)", and it immediately said something like "sorry, 'Other (traditional landline)' does not support nomorobo." [It said that immediately, no further questions to pin down my provider.] So I don't think you can assume this is a list of supported carriers - there might be others that prompt a "sorry ...". [] -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf A professor is one who talks in someone else's sleep. |
#39
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telephone hackers - can we upload something?
Mayayana wrote:
"VanguardLH" wrote | He seems to be talking about a landline, which is what many of us are | using. Nomorobo characterizes VOIP as a landline, but they're of no | use for an actual landline. | | https://nomorobo.zendesk.com/hc/en-u...-does-it-work- | | Depends on whether your telco support simultaneous ring. The telco must | ring BOTH your phone and NoMoRobo at the same time. Am I missing something? I have a landline. There's no computer connection. It's not VOIP. It's just a wire coming into the house. Twisted pair POTS telco service. So how is the phone company going to ring nomorobo? By the telco doing simultaneous ring to both your phone AND to the NoMoRobo phone number. Your telco rings 2, or more, numbers if they support simultaneous ringing. I assume nomorobo has to be installed to a compter (VOIP) or cellphone. Nope, absolutely no software is needed nor can any be used. With simultaneous ringing, your phone provider (cellular, landline, VOIP, whatever) rings multiple phone numbers at the SAME time hence the name of this feature. For example, because Google Voice supports simultaneous ringing, I can have it ring my home phones (2), work phone, and all my cell phones. With my ISP (Comcast), their voice (not VOIP) service can also do simultaneous ringing, so that duplicates the same PBX-like feature in Google Voice. The only reasons why I have not switched from Google Voice to my ISP's voice service a Google Voice is free (I need to pay my ISP for their voice service) and Google Voice employs an anti-spam blacklist but not my ISP's voice service. I use NoMoRobo with my cell phone because my cellular carrier (Verizon) supports simultaenous ring. My aunt uses NoMoRobo with her ISP's voice service because they support simultaneous ring. The requirements to use NoMoRobo a (1) Your phone provider must support simultaneous ring; and, (2) You must be able to configure your phone account to add NoMoRobo as one of the phone numbers that are simultaneous ring. You need the feature at your phone provider and you need to add whatever numbers you want simultaneously rang. It's a configuration thing. No software. The only other way I could imagine this working on a landline would be if I arranged with my phone company to call nomorobo every time I get a call. That would be far more creepy than getting spam calls. Yep, that is what the simultaneous ring feature does: call multiple phone numbers. For example, you don't even need to use this feature just for NoMoRobo. You could have calls to your home phone also simultaneously ring at your workplace. That way, you don't miss calls at home while you are at work; else, your home phone callers would have to leave voicemail because you're not there when you're at work. Some telephony providers call it call forwarding instead of simultaneous ring. The Caller ID info is sent between the 1st and 2nd rings. Since NoMoRobo gets called at the same time as, say, your landline it will also get the Caller ID info. They don't care about the name info, just the phone number info from Caller ID (plus some providers only forward the phone number info in Caller ID but not a name). So, yes, with simultaneous ringing, multiple phones get called. That's the point of this feature. One of those phones could be your home phone (landline). Another could be your work phone number. Another could be NoMoRobo. From what I've read, the phone providers that in NoMoRobo's list have scripts written at NoMoRobo to assist you in completing the setup. Different providers have different methods of enabling simultaneous ring along with adding a phone number to the list. If not in the list, you have to figure out how to enable simultaneous ring at your phone provider and how to add phone numbers to that list whether they be your work phone, cell phone, or NoMoRobo. |
#40
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telephone hackers - can we upload something?
On 20/07/2018 14:22, Mayayana wrote:
"Ed Cryer" wrote | I've used a technique with spam callers who start with something like | "Hello. And how are you today?" | It consists of completely monopolising the conversation. They're paying | for it; you can have a captive audience. | The only problem with that is that it's likely you're talking to someone in India who's being paid pennies and will gladly keep you on the line for hours if there's a chance of getting you hacked. In the meantime, it's not really their time you're wasting. It's yours. It might be a good strategy for elderly people living alone, though. IME they're mostly not trying to hack you. They're trying to convince you that your PC is dying/seriously infected and that you need to pay them money for them to fix it and look after it in the future. -- Brian Gregory (in England). |
#41
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telephone hackers - can we upload something?
"VanguardLH" wrote
| The requirements to use | NoMoRobo a (1) Your phone provider must support simultaneous ring; | and, (2) You must be able to configure your phone account to add | NoMoRobo as one of the phone numbers that are simultaneous ring. You | need the feature at your phone provider and you need to add whatever | numbers you want simultaneously rang. It's a configuration thing. No | software. I see. Thanks. I'm not aware of my phone company supporting it. In any case, I don't think I'd want some unknown company getting my calls before I do and deciding which ones go through. Especially given that the service is free. There has to be a profit model in there somewhere. I also suspect that such a service would only make a small dent in the problem. I get some obvious scam calls with CallerID that says things like "800 Service". I also get legit calls that I don't want, like breast cancer research. But mostly I get calls that may only name the city or may give the caller's name, and which are frequently local. But they don't leave a message. They seem to be all "legit" in the sense that they're probably not on anyone's blacklist. I was mentioning that one day to a friend who designs fundraising plans for non-profits and she answered, "Oh, yeah. I always tell my clients to use their own cellphones when they do fundraising calls, if they want to get through." Bingo! I'm guessing that of all those calls only the "800 Service" call would end up getting blocked by something like nomorobo. |
#42
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telephone hackers - can we upload something?
On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 21:41:59 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
Mayayana wrote: I assume nomorobo has to be installed to a compter (VOIP) or cellphone. Nope, absolutely no software is needed nor can any be used. Right. And to add to that, NoMoRobo can used with a plain old landline telephone, where there is no possibility of installing any software. |
#43
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telephone hackers - can we upload something?
"Mayayana" wrote in message
news "Ed Cryer" wrote | I've used a technique with spam callers who start with something like | "Hello. And how are you today?" | It consists of completely monopolising the conversation. They're paying | for it; you can have a captive audience. | The only problem with that is that it's likely you're talking to someone in India who's being paid pennies and will gladly keep you on the line for hours if there's a chance of getting you hacked. In the meantime, it's not really their time you're wasting. It's yours. It might be a good strategy for elderly people living alone, though. My grandma used to invite JWs into the house if they called at the door. She'd go along with them and make it sound as if she was really interested and a possible convert. She also had a goof chat to them. Eventually she would come clean that she had no interest in religion at all, and was just doing it as a service to her neighbours in keeping them off the street to prevent them bothering anyone else. She said she got a fair amount of the sort of language that you wouldn't expect JWs to use :-) |
#44
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telephone hackers - can we upload something?
In message , Brian
Gregory writes: On 20/07/2018 14:22, Mayayana wrote: [] and will gladly keep you on the line for hours if there's a chance of getting you hacked. In the meantime, it's not really their time you're wasting. It's yours. That's the rub. _If_ you have time to waste, yes, plenty of things you can do to wind them up, but I CBA any more. [] IME they're mostly not trying to hack you. They're trying to convince you that your PC is dying/seriously infected and that you need to pay them money for them to fix it and look after it in the future. It may differ from place to place and country to country. Certainly, I'm pretty sure all the ones that have called me in the last year or several have been criminals: the fact that my usual response of "hang on while I get the police on the other line" makes them hang up ... plus, they usually start with "your computer is malfunctioning" or something similar. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Never be led astray onto the path of virtue. |
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telephone hackers - can we upload something?
On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 11:12:56 -0500, jetjock
wrote: On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 07:31:31 -0700, Ken Blake wrote: On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 21:41:59 -0500, VanguardLH wrote: Mayayana wrote: I assume nomorobo has to be installed to a compter (VOIP) or cellphone. Nope, absolutely no software is needed nor can any be used. Right. And to add to that, NoMoRobo can used with a plain old landline telephone, where there is no possibility of installing any software. Well, I just checked the NoMoRobo Web site and it says very plainly that it is available free for "Landlines", but, and a big but it is, under that it lists what it does. The last item there is "Protect Unlimited VoIP Landlines ". Note the keyword being VOIP! If you click on "Sign up now," it also says "Unfortunately, Nomorobo is not available on traditional analog copper landlines at this time." So you are correct and what I said was wrong. Since I have VoIP, I never realized this. It is also available for Mobile devices, but costs $2/mo. Yes, and that's relatively new. Until recently it didn't work on cell phones. |
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