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USB Drive Issue



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 26th 18, 01:37 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Shoe
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Posts: 25
Default USB Drive Issue

Windows 10 home premium 64 bit, all updates installed.

I use an external USB 3 drive for backup. I have two 3 TB drives that
I use for this. Recently, my computer would no longer see the 3 TB
drive. I did the usual trouble-shooting steps including switching
docking stations, cables, ports but no change. I then re-installed
Windows using a Windows 10 recovery disc I had created. Again, nothing
changed. My computer was getting pretty long in the tooth, so I
purchased a new one. Still, the 3 TB drive was not recognized.
However, smaller drives, such as 1 and 2 TB, worked fine.

At the same time as the drive problem began, my USB printer also
disappeared and I was unable to re-install. I went to Windows help and
eventually to a chat with a Microsoft technician. He totally denied
any issues with Windows and kept searching for a hardware solution, so
was no help. I am of the opinion that this problem was created by a
Windows update and wonder if anyone else is having a similar problem
and if anyone knows of a solution.
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  #2  
Old August 26th 18, 04:41 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default USB Drive Issue

Shoe wrote:
Windows 10 home premium 64 bit, all updates installed.

I use an external USB 3 drive for backup. I have two 3 TB drives that
I use for this. Recently, my computer would no longer see the 3 TB
drive. I did the usual trouble-shooting steps including switching
docking stations, cables, ports but no change. I then re-installed
Windows using a Windows 10 recovery disc I had created. Again, nothing
changed. My computer was getting pretty long in the tooth, so I
purchased a new one. Still, the 3 TB drive was not recognized.
However, smaller drives, such as 1 and 2 TB, worked fine.

At the same time as the drive problem began, my USB printer also
disappeared and I was unable to re-install. I went to Windows help and
eventually to a chat with a Microsoft technician. He totally denied
any issues with Windows and kept searching for a hardware solution, so
was no help. I am of the opinion that this problem was created by a
Windows update and wonder if anyone else is having a similar problem
and if anyone knows of a solution.


For the presence of the drive, you can use this for the
physical layer.

https://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbtreeview_e.html

When you plug in the USB drive, then power it on using
the wall adapter, you should see a new entry in USBTreeView.
Like a USB Mass storage device.

https://www.uwe-sieber.de/gif/usbtreeview_3.png

If you get that far, then check Device Manager (right-click
of start menu contains it). Look for a new storage device there.

If that works, open Disk Management and verify the device
is in the "Online" state. If the disk identifier is exactly
the same as another disk, the portable disk will remain
offline.

A hard drive needs partitions, so you can see a
the partition in My Computer.

If the hard drive does not respond to an ID command,
the USB chip will not report in to the OS and the
drive will remain invisible. In cases like that,
plug the SATA drive inside the external casing or
dock, into a SATA port on the motherboard, using
a SATA data and SATA power cable. For something
like a WDC MyBook, taking the enclosure apart, to
remove the hard drive, can be complicated and involve
hidden screws. They don't make some of those
cases all that easy to open.

If the drive still doesn't show up, not even in a
BIOS screen or BIOS menu, then the drive itself
is likely "bricked" or permanently damaged.

Paul


  #3  
Old August 27th 18, 06:35 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Lucifer
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Posts: 226
Default USB Drive Issue

On Sun, 26 Aug 2018 11:41:18 -0400, Paul
wrote:

If that works, open Disk Management and verify the device
is in the "Online" state. If the disk identifier is exactly
the same as another disk, the portable disk will remain
offline.


I have two USB drives with a WD Green 2TB in each.
Either would work by itself but not both at the same time.
I went into Disk Management, right clicked on offline, then
clicked online in the drop down list.
Now they both work.

Paul

  #4  
Old August 27th 18, 08:11 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Uwe Sieber
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Posts: 609
Default USB Drive Issue

Lucifer wrote:
On Sun, 26 Aug 2018 11:41:18 -0400, Paul
wrote:

If that works, open Disk Management and verify the device
is in the "Online" state. If the disk identifier is exactly
the same as another disk, the portable disk will remain
offline.


I have two USB drives with a WD Green 2TB in each.
Either would work by itself but not both at the same time.
I went into Disk Management, right clicked on offline, then
clicked online in the drop down list.
Now they both work.


Probably they both have identical disk signatures. Either
the lazy manufacturer delivered all with identical ones
or one drive was cloned from the other.
You can check the disk signature by means of USB Drive Info:
https://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbdriveinfo.html
If both signatures are identicaln the you can change one by
means of DISKPART:
diskpart
select disk N (where N is the disk number you see in UsbDriveInfo)
uniqueid disk id=12345678
exit

Safely remove the drive, re-attach it and take the second one online :-)


Uwe
  #5  
Old August 27th 18, 02:40 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default 5V power supplies (Was: USB Drive Issue)

Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-08-27 01:35, Lucifer wrote:
On Sun, 26 Aug 2018 11:41:18 -0400, Paul
wrote:

If that works, open Disk Management and verify the device
is in the "Online" state. If the disk identifier is exactly
the same as another disk, the portable disk will remain
offline.


I have two USB drives with a WD Green 2TB in each.
Either would work by itself but not both at the same time.
I went into Disk Management, right clicked on offline, then
clicked online in the drop down list.
Now they both work.

Paul


Related question: The external USB hub is labelled "5vDC 5.0A", but I
can't find a wall-wart with the correct (3mm) power plug.

(Why do MFRs make these things and don't package them with the power
supply? Bah!)

Anybody know a source? Ip;[ve looked in all the usual places.

TIA,


There are at least 15 different barrel connectors. You
might remember the "hydra" at the Radio Shack, the thing
with barrel connectors on it that customers could use to
test for a fit on an electronic item. Once you knew the
letter, like an "N" barrel, you could go shopping
for accessories.

The plugs actually have amperage ratings. A manufacturer
should select a size consistent with the application.
These are not fashion statements, and have a technical
aspect to them.

Plugs can be center-positive or center-negative. The
appliance has the polarity info stamped right into
the plastic of the appliance (your hub).

3mm seems kinda small for 5A. Measure the barrel with
your calipers, and try the Wikipedia article, then see
if you can track down a rating. Maybe the reason
no adapters have that plug on the end, is the plug
isn't the right one for the job.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_power_connector

*******

The other thing to keep in mind, is the arithmetic
involved in this.

You only need sufficient current, to cover the
expected load. If you're fast-charging three iPads
off the USB ports, maybe you really do need a
5 amp adapter. If you're running five 100mA mice
off the hub, you need a 5V @ 500mA adapter.

Instead of buying a 5A adapter, you can tailor
the max current requirement, to the hardware
situation you're in.

Can you run five mice at 100mA each off the 5 amp
adapter ? Sure. It means the adapter has "4.5 amps
of headroom left" and could accept more loading
if it occurred. There's nothing wrong with using
the giant adapter.

However, if you cannot locate the exact item
you're looking for, add up the expected loads
for the hub, and formulate a plan based on that.

The USB hub chip needs some power. If the hub
was USB2, the chip would need about "zero" power :-)
Maybe 100mA would be enough. The higher speeds
of USB3 would result in a current draw for the
main chip, that was higher than that.

Summary:

1) Ascertain exactly which Adaptaplug this is.
Check OD and ID, for comparison to adverts.

2) If you can't find the adapter product you want,
resort to a bit of creative arithmetic to
figure out a "new" rating for your
purchasing exercise.

If worse comes to worse, you can visit Digikey,
Mouser, or Newark/Element14 and see what they've
got. They sell quantity 1 of some items. And
their minimum purchase might be quite reasonable.
(Just the shipping could kill the deal.)

For example, Digikey lists 3000 adapters. And there
are columns in the filter dialog for the precise
barrel dimensions.

https://www.digikey.ca/products/en/p...k=5v%20adapter

You apply the filter operations in multiple stages.

Click "5V" out, and "5A" out first. Click "Apply".
Now the 3000 items drops to only 56 choices. And
the barrel types field will show fewer variants
in its column.

(The quantity one choices are limited to the following family.)

https://www.cui.com/product/resource/smi36.pdf

Notice now, that all the barrels are 5.5mm OD. In
fact, the two IDs (Inside Diameters) listed, are
kinda standards for this stuff. Note that the Adaptaplug
entry I've added to the table, is purely for its
entertainment value. It has no technical significance.
These are quite popular choices.

5.5mm OD 2.5mm ID Adaptaplug "N"
5.5mm OD 2.1mm ID Adaptaplug "M"

The length of the barrel is yet another variable.
I've not run into an issue (so far), with that
variable. If you were working with the "locking ring"
variant of plug, perhaps then the length would
be more important (too long means it won't lock ?).

The project I was working on, initially I was going to
use two wall adapters, and use them to attain a non-standard
voltage. But getting parts for barrels and jacks was going
to be such a pain in the ass, I abandoned my plan, and
build my own power supply out of junk room parts. Put
a terminal block on it (with screw termination) and
just joined lengths of wire for the project I had
in mind. As a result of what a nuisance the barrel
idea was, there were no barrels in my finished product.

The Canadian store "The Source", our sorta RadioShack,
no longer carries a good selection of barrel-related
toys. At one time, there were enough parts there,
you could make a conversion cable if it was needed.

Paul
  #6  
Old August 27th 18, 02:51 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default 5V power supplies (Was: USB Drive Issue)

In article , Wolf K
wrote:


Related question: The external USB hub is labelled "5vDC 5.0A", but I
can't find a wall-wart with the correct (3mm) power plug.

(Why do MFRs make these things and don't package them with the power
supply? Bah!)


because it works perfectly fine without one, so by not including a
power adapter, they can offer a usb hub for a lower price. there are
also hubs with power adapters, for those who need it.

the real question is if you wanted a usb hub with a power adapter, why
did you buy one that didn't include one?

Anybody know a source? Ip;[ve looked in all the usual places.


apparently not, because they're incredibly easy to find.

start with the manufacturer of the hub, or just do a search for 5v
power adapter, which comes back with many, many hits. if you have a 5v
adapter with the wrong size plug, then get an adapter cable or just cut
the plug off and replace it with the correct size. or just get another
usb hub that includes a power adapter, which may end up being cheaper
than buying a power adapter separately as well as less hassle.
  #7  
Old August 27th 18, 02:51 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default 5V power supplies (Was: USB Drive Issue)

In article , Paul
wrote:

3mm seems kinda small for 5A.


3mm is very common for usb hubs and has nothing to do with the amp
rating of the power adapter.
  #8  
Old August 27th 18, 04:33 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default 5V power supplies (Was: USB Drive Issue)

In article , Wolf K
wrote:

the real question is if you wanted a usb hub with a power adapter, why
did you buy one that didn't include one?


Because none of the ones on the shelves had a power adapter.


order online. likely cheaper too.
  #9  
Old August 27th 18, 07:40 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
mike[_10_]
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Posts: 1,073
Default 5V power supplies (Was: USB Drive Issue)

On 8/27/2018 8:33 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Wolf K
wrote:

the real question is if you wanted a usb hub with a power adapter, why
did you buy one that didn't include one?


Because none of the ones on the shelves had a power adapter.


order online. likely cheaper too.

One more thing to worry about is that some/many hubs connect the
external 5V in parallel with the 5V coming from the computer
USB port.
Undesirable things can happen if...
The external supply is higher than 5V from the computer
The external supply is lower than 5V from the computer
The external supply overheats and shorts, producing more voltage
You make a cable and accidentally hook it up backwards
You power down the computer without powering down the hub

You still think you wanna buy the cheapest one you can find
on ebay?
  #10  
Old August 27th 18, 07:54 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default 5V power supplies (Was: USB Drive Issue)

In article , mike
wrote:

the real question is if you wanted a usb hub with a power adapter, why
did you buy one that didn't include one?

Because none of the ones on the shelves had a power adapter.


order online. likely cheaper too.


One more thing to worry about is that some/many hubs connect the
external 5V in parallel with the 5V coming from the computer
USB port.


only ****ty non-compliant ones.

Undesirable things can happen if...
The external supply is higher than 5V from the computer
The external supply is lower than 5V from the computer
The external supply overheats and shorts, producing more voltage
You make a cable and accidentally hook it up backwards
You power down the computer without powering down the hub

You still think you wanna buy the cheapest one you can find
on ebay?


i didn't say buy the cheapest thing on ebay. i didn't even mention ebay.

the point is that the selection of products online is much better than
what any single store can carry, who probably won't bother carrying the
better hubs because they cost more and won't sell as well.

and there are plenty of quality usb hubs (and other stuff) on ebay,
often for very good prices.
  #11  
Old August 27th 18, 09:50 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default 5V power supplies (Was: USB Drive Issue)

Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-08-27 14:54, nospam wrote:
In article , mike
wrote:

[snip argy-bargy]

Thanks, everyone, I see it's better to look for a hub with a power
supply than for a hub and then a power supply.

Best,



Here's one that comes with a 4 amp adapter. It has USB3 and
USB2 data ports, and the upstream is USB3.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817707281

*******

This is just a charging hub, rather than carrying
USB data. I double checked, and it cheats like the
next two items. The adapter is "12V/3A US Power Adapter"
so DC 12V to 5V conversion is inside the hub.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA1DS14S2073

This one apparently uses a (not shown in picture!) 12V @ 3A
external adapter, to power a 7 port USB3 hub. That means
you could run 7 ports at 5V @ 900mA each (7 * 4.5W = 31.5W).

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA24G6HX0195

And here's another 7 port one with no USB-C on it. Same deal,
with the 12V @ 3A external adapter, and power conversion inside
the hub to make 5V.

https://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Port.../dp/B075NMVGP7

If I switch down to a 4 port, I get a 5V @ 2 amp adapter.

https://www.amazon.com/Vantec-Port-S.../dp/B004IYJWVW

If there was a selector on these sites for "5 amp" I might
have better luck dialing one in.

Paul
 




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