xp reactivation after mobo change

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 09:54:04 -0700, Ron Martell
wrote:

"jj" wrote:

Help. I have a Dell pc and the mobo just fried and of course I didnt take the
extended warranty, so I bought a new mobo (asus) now that everything is back
together it won't let me activate. When I use the 800 number they say that
the product can't be activated. Please help.

Your Dell Windows XP is a "BIOS Locked" version that is self
activating when it is installed on a Dell motherboard. Prior to 1
March 2005 if these versions were installed on a different motherboard
then they required activation over the Internet or by telephone.

However since 1 March 2005 Microsoft has blocked the online activation
of these Windows versions and they are also declining requests for
telephone activation.
Are their any small claim court lawsuits yet for not being able to use
their legally bought system the way they want too against either the
oem or Microsoft? I think you should have the right to reinstall or
do clean install of the operating system withoout havinmg to purchase
another copy.


I think that may depend on which key you use.
On systems that don't require activation.

They key provided on the machine has to activate or you couldn't use
for a reinstall or clean install or only for 30 days. Microsoft said
they would always allow you to do a clean or repair install.

I can see people with vista being ticked off and not being able to do
a clean install without purchasing another oem copy.

Your only options would appear to be:
1. Replace the motherboard with one from Dell and try to find another
buyer (eBay?) for your Asus board if it cannot be returned.
2. Purchase a new license for Windows XP.

Good luck

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada

There is a third option. hint hint
I would only do this third option if Microsoft would not help me.

Greg Ro

Greg Ro wrote:

Are their any small claim court lawsuits yet for not being able to use
their legally bought system the way they want too against either the
oem or Microsoft? I think you should have the right to reinstall or
do clean install of the operating system withoout havinmg to purchase
another copy.


None that I am aware of, but there may well be. The suit would
probably have to be against the OEM. The wording of the EULA for
these OEM versions is pretty specific about tieing the license to the
specific hardware that the license was first installed on, and about
identifying the OEM and not Microsoft as having primary responsibility
for all problems and other issues.

This change in activation was brought about because it was becoming
fairly widely known that a "BIOS Locked" OEM license could in fact be
used on 2 computers, one self-activating through the BIOS Lock and the
other with different hardware activated normally over the Internet.



I think that may depend on which key you use.
On systems that don't require activation.

Product keys are actually quite specifically coded and it is
(apparently) quite easy to identify the SLP (=Bios Locked) versions
from the product key. I am not sure if a SLP version would even
accept an OEM Product key for a non-SLP version that was otherwise
identical.



They key provided on the machine has to activate or you couldn't use
for a reinstall or clean install or only for 30 days. Microsoft said
they would always allow you to do a clean or repair install.

I can see people with vista being ticked off and not being able to do
a clean install without purchasing another oem copy.

I think it is far too early to tell exactly what procedures will apply
to the activation of OEM versions of Vista

With XP it is the "different motherboard = different computer"
presumption that is the underlying cause of this issue.



Good luck

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
http://aumha.org/alex.htm

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 14:27:25 -0700, Ron Martell
wrote:

This change in activation was brought about because it was becoming
fairly widely known that a "BIOS Locked" OEM license could in fact be
used on 2 computers, one self-activating through the BIOS Lock and the
other with different hardware activated normally over the Internet.

Is that the hidden image key or the oem key that on the sticker? I
have done a clean install of my machine using the image key. Before
I figured out how to do a clean install without no oem cd. I use the
key on the back of the machine. This key does require you to
activate. The image key usually does not unless it installed on
another system or on the same system with another bios or motherboard.
So if Wga becomes a problem. I can change it to my oem key.

My system Emachine w2040 model. Xp sp2 work on it if dep is disabled.


Greg Ro

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:59:09 -0700, Donald McDaniel

The Dell OEM agreement requires you to replace a defective
motherboard with an identical one purchased from Dell.

If you are prepared to expose yourself to that degree of vendor
lock-in abuse, you may as well go Mac.

Note that "agreement" in this case is between two vendors playing
vulture, with you as the carcass. Were these terms visible when you
bought your PC, and did you consider them when weighing that purchase
against less "big" brands? If not, how can "the market" apply
Darwinian selection pressure? It's time the DoJ had another look,
methinks - sware/hware vendor cabals may benefit both sware and hware
vendors, but guess who's the toothpaste getting squeezed in between.



------------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
The rights you save may be your own
------------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:59:09 -0700, Donald McDaniel

The Dell OEM agreement requires you to replace a defective
motherboard with an identical one purchased from Dell.

If you are prepared to expose yourself to that degree of vendor
lock-in abuse, you may as well go Mac.

Note that "agreement" in this case is between two vendors playing
vulture, with you as the carcass. Were these terms visible when you
bought your PC, and did you consider them when weighing that purchase
against less "big" brands? If not, how can "the market" apply
Darwinian selection pressure? It's time the DoJ had another look,
methinks - sware/hware vendor cabals may benefit both sware and hware
vendors, but guess who's the toothpaste getting squeezed in between.

Hear, hear! In all the US Anti-Trust preceding the one group that
wasn't really considered were consumers.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

begin**trojan.vbs ... On Monday 22 August 2005 09:54 am, Ron Martell had
this to say in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:

"jj" wrote:

Help. I have a Dell pc and the mobo just fried and of course I didnt take
the extended warranty, so I bought a new mobo (asus) now that everything
is back together it won't let me activate. When I use the 800 number they
say that the product can't be activated. Please help.

Your Dell Windows XP is a "BIOS Locked" version that is self
activating when it is installed on a Dell motherboard. Prior to 1
March 2005 if these versions were installed on a different motherboard
then they required activation over the Internet or by telephone.

However since 1 March 2005 Microsoft has blocked the online activation
of these Windows versions and they are also declining requests for
telephone activation.

Your only options would appear to be:
1. Replace the motherboard with one from Dell and try to find another
buyer (eBay?) for your Asus board if it cannot be returned.
2. Purchase a new license for Windows XP.

Good luck

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada

3. Say to hell with this MickeyMouse madness and install Linux. You'll end
up with a far more powerful system, more customizable, more secure and with
access to literally thousands of free software apps. Most importantly,
you'll be FREE. Free from the marketing and bullying of MicroShaft.


--
Have you been MicroShafted today?
To mess up a Linux box, you need to work *at* it.
To mess up a Windows box, you need to work *on* it.

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 00:30:07 GMT, NoStop wrote:

begin**trojan.vbs ... On Monday 22 August 2005 09:54 am, Ron Martell had
this to say in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:

"jj" wrote:

Help. I have a Dell pc and the mobo just fried and of course I didnt take
the extended warranty, so I bought a new mobo (asus) now that everything
is back together it won't let me activate. When I use the 800 number they
say that the product can't be activated. Please help.

Your Dell Windows XP is a "BIOS Locked" version that is self
activating when it is installed on a Dell motherboard. Prior to 1
March 2005 if these versions were installed on a different motherboard
then they required activation over the Internet or by telephone.

However since 1 March 2005 Microsoft has blocked the online activation
of these Windows versions and they are also declining requests for
telephone activation.

Your only options would appear to be:
1. Replace the motherboard with one from Dell and try to find another
buyer (eBay?) for your Asus board if it cannot be returned.
2. Purchase a new license for Windows XP.

Good luck

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada

3. Say to hell with this MickeyMouse madness and install Linux. You'll end
up with a far more powerful system, more customizable, more secure and with
access to literally thousands of free software apps.

"Thousands of free software apps..." Yeh, right. You SHOULD have
written "thousands of free and extremely buggy software apps."

I've never installed a distibution of Linux (and I have installed
several) which did NOT contain MANY buggy apps (especially media
apps.) At least Microsoft's apps work as they should.

Most importantly,
you'll be FREE. Free from the marketing and bullying of MicroShaft.

A bully or a salesman can only influence you if you let them. You
must be extremely morally weak to be affected by Microsoft's marketing
efforts, and to feel that Microsoft has bullied you.

I've been using Microsoft Products since the early 80's, and have
never felt bullied by Microsoft.

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread
so that conversations may be kept in order
================================================== =====

Donald McDaniel wrote:


snip

I've been using Microsoft Products since the early 80's, and have
never felt bullied by Microsoft.

And snake oil salesmen never seem to bully their customers either.

Obviously you have little understanding on the power of subliminal
marketing. It is like the preachers that convert people by subtly
preying on their fear of the unknown, with the false promise to know
what is unknowable.

Charlatans come in many sizes and shapes, but the all prey on the sucker
that is within all of us, and make it seem like they are the best thing
since we came out of the trees.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:05:01 -0400, "kurttrail"
wrote:

Donald McDaniel wrote:


snip

I've been using Microsoft Products since the early 80's, and have
never felt bullied by Microsoft.

And snake oil salesmen never seem to bully their customers either.

Obviously you have little understanding on the power of subliminal
marketing. It is like the preachers that convert people by subtly
preying on their fear of the unknown, with the false promise to know
what is unknowable.

Charlatans come in many sizes and shapes, but the all prey on the sucker
that is within all of us, and make it seem like they are the best thing
since we came out of the trees.

My choices in Software are never determined by advertising or
peer-pressure.

EVERY item of software I keep and use was chosen by EXPERIMENTATION,
not advertising promises. I take ALL advertising promises from ANYONE
with a grain of salt. If I want to try a product out, I download a
legal trial, and put it to the test. If I feel that it does what I
want it to, I purchase it. My decision to purchase is ALWAYS
preceeded by a thorough trial of the software.

I also listen very carefully to WHAT any preacher or teacher (or
anyone in authority) says, and always apply my powers of discernment
and intellect to judging the worth of what they say. I am NEVER
fooled by a preacher of ANY religion.

I learned MANY YEARS ago that the claims of advertisers, charlatans,
and preachers seldom stand up to experimentation very long. I
certainly have no illusions that Microsoft is any different. I also
realize that Microsoft is in the business to make money, not make
people happy. But the fact is, they have made MILLIONS of buyers
happy in the process of making their money.

On the other hand, I did try several varieties of Linux for the sole
reason of investigating the claims of Linux enthusiasts. Linux fell
very short when compared to Windows XP. Maybe it is a good server OS,
but it certainly is a poor desktop experience.

Since I have no need for a server, there is no need for Linux in my
life. All it brought me was frustration and disappointment.

And I certainly reject your weak arguments, since they are nothing but
hate-filled words.

I really feel sorry for you, kurt, that you have nothing but coldness
in your heart. You need to learn to trust others.

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread
so that conversations may be kept in order
================================================== =====

Donald McDaniel wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:05:01 -0400, "kurttrail"
wrote:

Donald McDaniel wrote:


snip

I've been using Microsoft Products since the early 80's, and have
never felt bullied by Microsoft.

And snake oil salesmen never seem to bully their customers either.

Obviously you have little understanding on the power of subliminal
marketing. It is like the preachers that convert people by subtly
preying on their fear of the unknown, with the false promise to know
what is unknowable.

Charlatans come in many sizes and shapes, but the all prey on the
sucker that is within all of us, and make it seem like they are the
best thing since we came out of the trees.

My choices in Software are never determined by advertising or
peer-pressure.

So you say. But if you wouldn't be the best judge of determining the
effect of advertising some of which is quite subliminal had on you.


EVERY item of software I keep and use was chosen by EXPERIMENTATION,
not advertising promises. I take ALL advertising promises from ANYONE
with a grain of salt. If I want to try a product out, I download a
legal trial, and put it to the test. If I feel that it does what I
want it to, I purchase it. My decision to purchase is ALWAYS
preceeded by a thorough trial of the software.

But even taking advertising with a grain of salt, you still have paid
attention to it, and its effect can influence how you perceive your
testing. Without a true controlled testing through scientific method,
your results more that likely is skewed in some manner.

I also listen very carefully to WHAT any preacher or teacher (or
anyone in authority) says, and always apply my powers of discernment
and intellect to judging the worth of what they say. I am NEVER
fooled by a preacher of ANY religion.

LOL! So you say. If you believe in any established religion, then you
are influenced by teachers and preachers but past and present.

Only a very few people in history can claim to come to their
spirituality un-influenced. Unfortunately their names are lost to
history as they pre-date history by many millenia.

The closest modern written-historical man has come to not being
influenced about their spiritual beliefs are true agnostics, that keep
an open mind and truely believe that they don't know what to believe
when it comes to the spiritual.

I learned MANY YEARS ago that the claims of advertisers, charlatans,
and preachers seldom stand up to experimentation very long. I
certainly have no illusions that Microsoft is any different. I also
realize that Microsoft is in the business to make money, not make
people happy. But the fact is, they have made MILLIONS of buyers
happy in the process of making their money.

LOL! And what evidence do you base this customer-satisfaction on?
Surely not because Windows is preinstalled on 9x.x% of the computers
sold?

On the other hand, I did try several varieties of Linux for the sole
reason of investigating the claims of Linux enthusiasts. Linux fell
very short when compared to Windows XP. Maybe it is a good server OS,
but it certainly is a poor desktop experience.

It is getting better. But again, that isn't a measure of
customer-satisfaction.

Since I have no need for a server, there is no need for Linux in my
life. All it brought me was frustration and disappointment.

But that may also be influenced by the fact that you are set in you
Windows ways.


And I certainly reject your weak arguments, since they are nothing but
hate-filled words.

What hate-filled words? Please quote what you felt was hate-filled
words in my last post.


I really feel sorry for you, kurt, that you have nothing but coldness
in your heart. You need to learn to trust others.

LOL! I trust those that earn my trust. And you would know nothing
about my heart. Worry about you own.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:46:31 -0700, Donald McDaniel
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:05:01 -0400, "kurttrail"
wrote:

Donald McDaniel wrote:


snip

I've been using Microsoft Products since the early 80's, and have
never felt bullied by Microsoft.

And snake oil salesmen never seem to bully their customers either.

Obviously you have little understanding on the power of subliminal
marketing. It is like the preachers that convert people by subtly
preying on their fear of the unknown, with the false promise to know
what is unknowable.

Charlatans come in many sizes and shapes, but the all prey on the sucker
that is within all of us, and make it seem like they are the best thing
since we came out of the trees.

My choices in Software are never determined by advertising or
peer-pressure.

EVERY item of software I keep and use was chosen by EXPERIMENTATION,
not advertising promises. I take ALL advertising promises from ANYONE
with a grain of salt. If I want to try a product out, I download a
legal trial, and put it to the test. If I feel that it does what I
want it to, I purchase it. My decision to purchase is ALWAYS
preceeded by a thorough trial of the software.

I also listen very carefully to WHAT any preacher or teacher (or
anyone in authority) says, and always apply my powers of discernment
and intellect to judging the worth of what they say. I am NEVER
fooled by a preacher of ANY religion.

I learned MANY YEARS ago that the claims of advertisers, charlatans,
and preachers seldom stand up to experimentation very long. I
certainly have no illusions that Microsoft is any different. I also
realize that Microsoft is in the business to make money, not make
people happy. But the fact is, they have made MILLIONS of buyers
happy in the process of making their money.

On the other hand, I did try several varieties of Linux for the sole
reason of investigating the claims of Linux enthusiasts. Linux fell
very short when compared to Windows XP. Maybe it is a good server OS,
but it certainly is a poor desktop experience.

Since I have no need for a server, there is no need for Linux in my
life. All it brought me was frustration and disappointment.

And I certainly reject your weak arguments, since they are nothing but
hate-filled words.

I really feel sorry for you, kurt, that you have nothing but coldness
in your heart. You need to learn to trust others.

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread
so that conversations may be kept in order
================================================= ======
You would trust Microsoft? Even with doj lawsuit?

The problem with linux you had. The machine possible was not built
for linux system. If you get a machine specifally for linux it
should run fine. There would be users of red hat, mandrake, suse,
linspire. e.tc. if that was the case.

Greg Ro

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 18:22:57 -0400, "kurttrail"
wrote:

Donald McDaniel wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:05:01 -0400, "kurttrail"
wrote:

Donald McDaniel wrote:


snip

I've been using Microsoft Products since the early 80's, and have
never felt bullied by Microsoft.

And snake oil salesmen never seem to bully their customers either.

Obviously you have little understanding on the power of subliminal
marketing. It is like the preachers that convert people by subtly
preying on their fear of the unknown, with the false promise to know
what is unknowable.

Charlatans come in many sizes and shapes, but the all prey on the
sucker that is within all of us, and make it seem like they are the
best thing since we came out of the trees.

My choices in Software are never determined by advertising or
peer-pressure.

So you say. But if you wouldn't be the best judge of determining the
effect of advertising some of which is quite subliminal had on you.

The claims of "subliminal advertising" by crackpots such as yourself
have been LONG dismissed as UNTRUE by researchers. So-called
"subliminal advertising" MAY have been practiced in the past (the
50s), but the Federal government outlawed the practice years ago.


EVERY item of software I keep and use was chosen by EXPERIMENTATION,
not advertising promises. I take ALL advertising promises from ANYONE
with a grain of salt. If I want to try a product out, I download a
legal trial, and put it to the test. If I feel that it does what I
want it to, I purchase it. My decision to purchase is ALWAYS
preceeded by a thorough trial of the software.

But even taking advertising with a grain of salt, you still have paid
attention to it, and its effect can influence how you perceive your
testing. Without a true controlled testing through scientific method,
your results more that likely is skewed in some manner.

I also listen very carefully to WHAT any preacher or teacher (or
anyone in authority) says, and always apply my powers of discernment
and intellect to judging the worth of what they say. I am NEVER
fooled by a preacher of ANY religion.

LOL! So you say. If you believe in any established religion, then you
are influenced by teachers and preachers but past and present.

Only a very few people in history can claim to come to their
spirituality un-influenced. Unfortunately their names are lost to
history as they pre-date history by many millenia.

The closest modern written-historical man has come to not being
influenced about their spiritual beliefs are true agnostics, that keep
an open mind and truely believe that they don't know what to believe
when it comes to the spiritual.



I learned MANY YEARS ago that the claims of advertisers, charlatans,
and preachers seldom stand up to experimentation very long. I
certainly have no illusions that Microsoft is any different. I also
realize that Microsoft is in the business to make money, not make
people happy. But the fact is, they have made MILLIONS of buyers
happy in the process of making their money.

LOL! And what evidence do you base this customer-satisfaction on?
Surely not because Windows is preinstalled on 9x.x% of the computers
sold?

ALL the negative words about the worth of Microsoft products is
nothing but anti-Microsoft PROPOGANDA, such as yours in these
newsgroups.


On the other hand, I did try several varieties of Linux for the sole
reason of investigating the claims of Linux enthusiasts. Linux fell
very short when compared to Windows XP. Maybe it is a good server OS,
but it certainly is a poor desktop experience.

It is getting better. But again, that isn't a measure of
customer-satisfaction.

You actually mean that whether a product works as it claims it should
is not a factor in determining its worth, or whether a customer will
be satisfied with it or not?

You're an idiot, kurt. For a while there, I thought you were fairly
intelligent. But after your making a statement like that, I no longer
have any respect for you.


Since I have no need for a server, there is no need for Linux in my
life. All it brought me was frustration and disappointment.

But that may also be influenced by the fact that you are set in you
Windows ways.

Nope, I learn software very quickly. Using a new and unknown product
seldom frustrates me very long. The only time I am disappointed is
when the software does not live up to the claims of its enthusiasts or
manufacturers.

Microsoft Windows XP does what its users (and manufacturers) claim,
without fail, if the user has a machine which was built to properly
run it. Putting XP on a machine which was built for Windows 9x will
ALWAYS disappoint a user, especially a novice like the majority of
home computer users.

My brother and I carefully researched hardware (by experimentation)
which would properly run XP, and settled on what WE considered the
best test-bed for Windows applications.

On the other hand, I am continually disappointed by the "free"
software I download and try.



And I certainly reject your weak arguments, since they are nothing but
hate-filled words.

What hate-filled words? Please quote what you felt was hate-filled
words in my last post.

kurt, it is obvious that you hate Microsoft. Your anti-Microsoft
rhetoric in 99% of your posts marks you completely, and shows how
hate-filled your heart is.

You may be a little more intelligent than most who post in these
groups, and have a better command of English than most, but you just
use more "acceptable" language to express your hatred, rather than
language which would show you up for what you really are.



I really feel sorry for you, kurt, that you have nothing but coldness
in your heart. You need to learn to trust others.

LOL! I trust those that earn my trust. And you would know nothing
about my heart. Worry about you own.
Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread
so that conversations may be kept in order
================================================== =====

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 17:44:04 -0500, Greg Ro
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:46:31 -0700, Donald McDaniel
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:05:01 -0400, "kurttrail"
wrote:

Donald McDaniel wrote:


snip

I've been using Microsoft Products since the early 80's, and have
never felt bullied by Microsoft.

And snake oil salesmen never seem to bully their customers either.

Obviously you have little understanding on the power of subliminal
marketing. It is like the preachers that convert people by subtly
preying on their fear of the unknown, with the false promise to know
what is unknowable.

Charlatans come in many sizes and shapes, but the all prey on the sucker
that is within all of us, and make it seem like they are the best thing
since we came out of the trees.

My choices in Software are never determined by advertising or
peer-pressure.

EVERY item of software I keep and use was chosen by EXPERIMENTATION,
not advertising promises. I take ALL advertising promises from ANYONE
with a grain of salt. If I want to try a product out, I download a
legal trial, and put it to the test. If I feel that it does what I
want it to, I purchase it. My decision to purchase is ALWAYS
preceeded by a thorough trial of the software.

I also listen very carefully to WHAT any preacher or teacher (or
anyone in authority) says, and always apply my powers of discernment
and intellect to judging the worth of what they say. I am NEVER
fooled by a preacher of ANY religion.

I learned MANY YEARS ago that the claims of advertisers, charlatans,
and preachers seldom stand up to experimentation very long. I
certainly have no illusions that Microsoft is any different. I also
realize that Microsoft is in the business to make money, not make
people happy. But the fact is, they have made MILLIONS of buyers
happy in the process of making their money.

On the other hand, I did try several varieties of Linux for the sole
reason of investigating the claims of Linux enthusiasts. Linux fell
very short when compared to Windows XP. Maybe it is a good server OS,
but it certainly is a poor desktop experience.

Since I have no need for a server, there is no need for Linux in my
life. All it brought me was frustration and disappointment.

And I certainly reject your weak arguments, since they are nothing but
hate-filled words.

I really feel sorry for you, kurt, that you have nothing but coldness
in your heart. You need to learn to trust others.

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread
so that conversations may be kept in order
================================================= ======
You would trust Microsoft? Even with doj lawsuit?

The problem with linux you had. The machine possible was not built
for linux system. If you get a machine specifally for linux it
should run fine. There would be users of red hat, mandrake, suse,
linspire. e.tc. if that was the case.

Greg Ro

Greg, the number and types of people who regularly experiment with
Linux can in NO WAY compare to the number and types of people who use
Windows.

Most Linux types I have found to be computer nerds and freaks, who
love endless fiddling with obscure text files, rather than normal,
every day people who just want to turn the machine on, get what they
need done, then turn it off, till the next time it is needed.

The only "problem" I had with Linux was Linux itself. Anything built
by OpenSource is bound to be weak and subject to buggy behavior.

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread
so that conversations may be kept in order
================================================== =====

Donald McDaniel wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 18:22:57 -0400, "kurttrail"
wrote:

Donald McDaniel wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:05:01 -0400, "kurttrail"
wrote:

Donald McDaniel wrote:


snip

I've been using Microsoft Products since the early 80's, and have
never felt bullied by Microsoft.

And snake oil salesmen never seem to bully their customers either.

Obviously you have little understanding on the power of subliminal
marketing. It is like the preachers that convert people by subtly
preying on their fear of the unknown, with the false promise to
know what is unknowable.

Charlatans come in many sizes and shapes, but the all prey on the
sucker that is within all of us, and make it seem like they are the
best thing since we came out of the trees.

My choices in Software are never determined by advertising or
peer-pressure.

So you say. But if you wouldn't be the best judge of determining the
effect of advertising some of which is quite subliminal had on you.

The claims of "subliminal advertising" by crackpots such as yourself
have been LONG dismissed as UNTRUE by researchers. So-called
"subliminal advertising" MAY have been practiced in the past (the
50s), but the Federal government outlawed the practice years ago.

LOL!

What I should have said is subconscious effects. You would be the worst
judge of the subconscious effect that advertising had on you.



EVERY item of software I keep and use was chosen by EXPERIMENTATION,
not advertising promises. I take ALL advertising promises from
ANYONE with a grain of salt. If I want to try a product out, I
download a legal trial, and put it to the test. If I feel that it
does what I want it to, I purchase it. My decision to purchase is
ALWAYS preceeded by a thorough trial of the software.

But even taking advertising with a grain of salt, you still have paid
attention to it, and its effect can influence how you perceive your
testing. Without a true controlled testing through scientific
method, your results more that likely is skewed in some manner.

I also listen very carefully to WHAT any preacher or teacher (or
anyone in authority) says, and always apply my powers of discernment
and intellect to judging the worth of what they say. I am NEVER
fooled by a preacher of ANY religion.

LOL! So you say. If you believe in any established religion, then
you are influenced by teachers and preachers but past and present.

Only a very few people in history can claim to come to their
spirituality un-influenced. Unfortunately their names are lost to
history as they pre-date history by many millenia.

The closest modern written-historical man has come to not being
influenced about their spiritual beliefs are true agnostics, that
keep an open mind and truely believe that they don't know what to
believe when it comes to the spiritual.

LOL! Your silence is golden!




I learned MANY YEARS ago that the claims of advertisers, charlatans,
and preachers seldom stand up to experimentation very long. I
certainly have no illusions that Microsoft is any different. I also
realize that Microsoft is in the business to make money, not make
people happy. But the fact is, they have made MILLIONS of buyers
happy in the process of making their money.

LOL! And what evidence do you base this customer-satisfaction on?
Surely not because Windows is preinstalled on 9x.x% of the computers
sold?

ALL the negative words about the worth of Microsoft products is
nothing but anti-Microsoft PROPOGANDA, such as yours in these
newsgroups.


LOL! And would that mean that ALL the positive words wouldn't be pro-MS
Propaganda?

It's quite funny that you dismiss ALL negatives comments about MS
out-of-hand. So much for your open mind!

You do realize that MS has been proven to be both a predatory monopoly
and a proven intellectual property infringer. Or do you just believe
that in nothing but propaganda?


On the other hand, I did try several varieties of Linux for the sole
reason of investigating the claims of Linux enthusiasts. Linux fell
very short when compared to Windows XP. Maybe it is a good server
OS, but it certainly is a poor desktop experience.

It is getting better. But again, that isn't a measure of
customer-satisfaction.

You actually mean that whether a product works as it claims it should
is not a factor in determining its worth, or whether a customer will
be satisfied with it or not?

No, I was talking about your feelings about the state of Linux desktop
development, is no measure of Windows customer-satisfaction.


You're an idiot, kurt. For a while there, I thought you were fairly
intelligent. But after your making a statement like that, I no longer
have any respect for you.

LOL! I'm not seeking your respect.



Since I have no need for a server, there is no need for Linux in my
life. All it brought me was frustration and disappointment.

But that may also be influenced by the fact that you are set in you
Windows ways.

Nope, I learn software very quickly. Using a new and unknown product
seldom frustrates me very long. The only time I am disappointed is
when the software does not live up to the claims of its enthusiasts or
manufacturers.

Linux is not just a different piece of software. It is a different way
of computing.

Microsoft Windows XP does what its users (and manufacturers) claim,
without fail, if the user has a machine which was built to properly
run it.

LOL! Without Fail! Now any reasonable person can see you are full of
it!

Putting XP on a machine which was built for Windows 9x will
ALWAYS disappoint a user, especially a novice like the majority of
home computer users.

My brother and I carefully researched hardware (by experimentation)
which would properly run XP, and settled on what WE considered the
best test-bed for Windows applications.

On the other hand, I am continually disappointed by the "free"
software I download and try.

Your opinion is no measure of overall Windows customer-satisfaction.

Which gets us back to you saying, "But the fact is, they [MS] have made
MILLIONS of buyers happy in the process of making their money."

And me asking, "And what evidence do you base this customer-satisfaction
on?"

So far, you seem to base this solely on your own opinion.




And I certainly reject your weak arguments, since they are nothing
but hate-filled words.

What hate-filled words? Please quote what you felt was hate-filled
words in my last post.

kurt, it is obvious that you hate Microsoft. Your anti-Microsoft
rhetoric in 99% of your posts marks you completely, and shows how
hate-filled your heart is.

You seemed to be talking about the original post of my you were replying
to.

Again, you have no idea what is in my heart, and you have yet to show
ANY hate-filled words.

Put up!



You may be a little more intelligent than most who post in these
groups, and have a better command of English than most, but you just
use more "acceptable" language to express your hatred, rather than
language which would show you up for what you really are.

LOL! I use more curse words than nearly anybody in these groups, but I
do self-censor them.

And how dare you tell me what I hate? Judge not, lest ye be judged. Or
are you like Pat Robertson? He advocates murder to satisfy his hate.
Do you judge me as being hateful to satisfy your own hatred?



I really feel sorry for you, kurt, that you have nothing but
coldness in your heart. You need to learn to trust others.

LOL! I trust those that earn my trust. And you would know nothing
about my heart. Worry about you own.

I feel sorry for you. You are a hypocrite, and you will not allow
yourself to see it.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Donald McDaniel wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 17:44:04 -0500, Greg Ro
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:46:31 -0700, Donald McDaniel
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:05:01 -0400, "kurttrail"
wrote:

Donald McDaniel wrote:


snip

I've been using Microsoft Products since the early 80's, and have
never felt bullied by Microsoft.

And snake oil salesmen never seem to bully their customers either.

Obviously you have little understanding on the power of subliminal
marketing. It is like the preachers that convert people by subtly
preying on their fear of the unknown, with the false promise to
know what is unknowable.

Charlatans come in many sizes and shapes, but the all prey on the
sucker that is within all of us, and make it seem like they are
the best thing since we came out of the trees.

My choices in Software are never determined by advertising or
peer-pressure.

EVERY item of software I keep and use was chosen by EXPERIMENTATION,
not advertising promises. I take ALL advertising promises from
ANYONE with a grain of salt. If I want to try a product out, I
download a legal trial, and put it to the test. If I feel that it
does what I want it to, I purchase it. My decision to purchase is
ALWAYS preceeded by a thorough trial of the software.

I also listen very carefully to WHAT any preacher or teacher (or
anyone in authority) says, and always apply my powers of discernment
and intellect to judging the worth of what they say. I am NEVER
fooled by a preacher of ANY religion.

I learned MANY YEARS ago that the claims of advertisers, charlatans,
and preachers seldom stand up to experimentation very long. I
certainly have no illusions that Microsoft is any different. I also
realize that Microsoft is in the business to make money, not make
people happy. But the fact is, they have made MILLIONS of buyers
happy in the process of making their money.

On the other hand, I did try several varieties of Linux for the sole
reason of investigating the claims of Linux enthusiasts. Linux fell
very short when compared to Windows XP. Maybe it is a good server
OS, but it certainly is a poor desktop experience.

Since I have no need for a server, there is no need for Linux in my
life. All it brought me was frustration and disappointment.

And I certainly reject your weak arguments, since they are nothing
but hate-filled words.

I really feel sorry for you, kurt, that you have nothing but
coldness in your heart. You need to learn to trust others.

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread
so that conversations may be kept in order
================================================== =====
You would trust Microsoft? Even with doj lawsuit?

The problem with linux you had. The machine possible was not built
for linux system. If you get a machine specifally for linux it
should run fine. There would be users of red hat, mandrake, suse,
linspire. e.tc. if that was the case.

Greg Ro

Greg, the number and types of people who regularly experiment with
Linux can in NO WAY compare to the number and types of people who use
Windows.

Most Linux types I have found to be computer nerds and freaks, who
love endless fiddling with obscure text files, rather than normal,
every day people who just want to turn the machine on, get what they
need done, then turn it off, till the next time it is needed.

The only "problem" I had with Linux was Linux itself. Anything built
by OpenSource is bound to be weak and subject to buggy behavior.

LOL! You are so closed-minded! Why would you think any rational human
being respect and take seriously what you blather on about?

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"