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REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)



 
 
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  #16  
Old June 2nd 18, 06:43 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
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Posts: 131
Default REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 18:33:37 +0100, Wolf K wrote:

On 2018-06-02 10:06, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
[...]
FTR, there are colour combinations that, er, disturb me. Really.


Why? My point above was that no matter how you perceive colours,
they're just ways of you distinguishing one object from another.

[...]

You're too damn "practical". Do you have the same attitude to food and
drink, you know, "flavour is just way of distinguishing one food from
another"?

For me, colour is source of pleasure. Or not, as the case may be.


In a piece of artwork I'd agree with you, but not for the colour of a car, or the paint on my livingroom wall.

--
Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.
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  #17  
Old June 2nd 18, 07:11 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
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Default REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 18:33:37 +0100, Wolf K wrote:

On 2018-06-02 10:06, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
[...]
FTR, there are colour combinations that, er, disturb me. Really.

Why? My point above was that no matter how you perceive colours,
they're just ways of you distinguishing one object from another.

[...]

You're too damn "practical". Do you have the same attitude to food and
drink, you know, "flavour is just way of distinguishing one food from
another"?

For me, colour is source of pleasure. Or not, as the case may be.


Big difference there. Tasting food is practical - if it tastes bad, it's
something your body thinks is bad for you, like mouldy food. Colours can't be bad for you.


actually, they can.
  #18  
Old June 2nd 18, 07:47 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Sjouke Burry[_2_]
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Posts: 275
Default REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)

On 2-6-2018 19:44, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 18:33:37 +0100, Wolf K wrote:

On 2018-06-02 10:06, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
[...]
FTR, there are colour combinations that, er, disturb me. Really.

Why? My point above was that no matter how you perceive colours,
they're just ways of you distinguishing one object from another.

[...]

You're too damn "practical". Do you have the same attitude to food and
drink, you know, "flavour is just way of distinguishing one food from
another"?

For me, colour is source of pleasure. Or not, as the case may be.


Big difference there. Tasting food is practical - if it tastes bad, it's something your body thinks is bad for you, like mouldy food. Colours can't be bad for you.

Ever seen yellow text on a slightly different yellow background?
Colour(difference) matters.
  #19  
Old June 2nd 18, 08:48 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
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Posts: 131
Default REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 19:47:50 +0100, Sjouke Burry wrote:

On 2-6-2018 19:44, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 18:33:37 +0100, Wolf K wrote:

On 2018-06-02 10:06, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
[...]
FTR, there are colour combinations that, er, disturb me. Really.

Why? My point above was that no matter how you perceive colours,
they're just ways of you distinguishing one object from another.
[...]

You're too damn "practical". Do you have the same attitude to food and
drink, you know, "flavour is just way of distinguishing one food from
another"?

For me, colour is source of pleasure. Or not, as the case may be.


Big difference there. Tasting food is practical - if it tastes bad, it's something your body thinks is bad for you, like mouldy food. Colours can't be bad for you.

Ever seen yellow text on a slightly different yellow background?
Colour(difference) matters.


Stop moving the goalposts. We were discussing what colours "go" (a female term) with other colours, not which ones can be easily be distinguished from others.

--
You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe. -- Carl Sagan
  #20  
Old June 3rd 18, 05:09 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mark Lloyd[_2_]
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Posts: 1,756
Default REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)

On 06/02/2018 10:22 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

[snip]

I was once asked "How many colors are there?". A difficult question,
which many people can't answer, they've confused "how many colors" with
"how many WORDS for colors". 2^24 (16,777,216) is a better answer than
that.


I agree with 2^24, that seems to be as much as the eye can distinguish.


Which doesn't mean that reality is so limited. Note that some animals
see better than humans, which isn't relevant either.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another" --
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
  #21  
Old June 3rd 18, 05:15 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mark Lloyd[_2_]
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Posts: 1,756
Default REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)

On 06/02/2018 01:47 PM, Sjouke Burry wrote:

[snip]

Ever seen yellow text on a slightly different yellow background?
Colour(difference) matters.


I had a home computer in 1984. For some reason the screen would come up
with light blue text on a not-quite-so-light blue background. One of the
first things I would do is change the text color.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another" --
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
  #22  
Old June 3rd 18, 05:19 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mark Lloyd[_2_]
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Posts: 1,756
Default REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)

On 06/02/2018 02:48 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

[snip]

We were discussing what colours "go" (a
female term) with other colours, not which ones can be easily be
distinguished from others.


I've heard that a lot, and it never made sense. They're describing a
problem with themselves, not with the colors.

BTW, I see a lot of these misplaced attitudes. For example, calling a
book "offensive" when the "offense" exists in your mind NOT in the book.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another" --
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
  #23  
Old June 4th 18, 01:51 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
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Posts: 131
Default REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 17:19:38 +0100, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 06/02/2018 02:48 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

[snip]

We were discussing what colours "go" (a
female term) with other colours, not which ones can be easily be
distinguished from others.


I've heard that a lot, and it never made sense. They're describing a
problem with themselves, not with the colors.

BTW, I see a lot of these misplaced attitudes. For example, calling a
book "offensive" when the "offense" exists in your mind NOT in the book.


Agreed.

--
How come the dove gets to be the peace symbol? How about the pillow? It has more feathers than the dove, and it doesn't have that dangerous beak!
  #24  
Old June 4th 18, 01:58 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
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Posts: 131
Default REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 20:34:29 +0100, Wolf K wrote:

On 2018-06-03 12:09, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 06/02/2018 10:22 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

[snip]

I was once asked "How many colors are there?". A difficult question,
which many people can't answer, they've confused "how many colors" with
"how many WORDS for colors". 2^24 (16,777,216) is a better answer
than that.

I agree with 2^24, that seems to be as much as the eye can distinguish.


Which doesn't mean that reality is so limited. Note that some animals
see better than humans, which isn't relevant either.


There's a difference between colours as measured by a spectrometer and
colours as perceived by a human. Eg, there is no such colour as "brown"
in the spectrum. Or "pink". Or "grey". Or etc.


Indeed, but eyesight would be very confusing if we saw every object giving off 5 different wavelengths.

The 2^24 number of colours are the combinations of colour data used to
display colours on a screen. Whether there are actually that many
colours displayable on a given screen is another issue: screens vary
quite a bit in quality, though much less nowadays than they did in the
Olden Days. And whether a human can distinguish them all is another
issue. And whether they can replicate natural colours in all weathers is
another issue again. As anyone who's tried to make a photo "look right"
knows.


My monitors (which are nothing special) can show all 2^24 colours differently, and I can tell the difference between any two, even if I only change one of the R,G,B by 1. You do have to set the contrast, brightness, gamma, etc correctly on them though to achieve that, which doesn't always give the best result for watching a film, it can be too bright etc.

As for "see better", that's not a clear concept either.

When it comes to perception, the only thing we can objectively measure
or observe is what colour (or other sensory) _differences_ the animal
can distinguish. While it's true that bees can distinguish ultraviolet
wavelengths, that doesn't mean they "see better". They see well enough
for their survival, and that's that counts.


Indeed, they're probably worse than us at colours that don't matter to them. But they're good at spotting the UV LEDs in my insect zapper :-) Man do they stink when they burn....

Or take frogs. Judging by their behaviour, they can't see fly-sized
blobs unless those blobs move. I surmise that's similar to human
peripheral vision, which is much better at distinguishing moving blobs
of light than still ones.


Indeed, which is why a spider running across the carpet scares the **** out of you.

Bottom line: what's "out there" isn't what we think it is.


That's a philosophical question. So what do you believe the world really is and how would we imagine it? Can someone who's blind possibly know what it's like for sighted people?

--
Scots are tightwads who are saving up to become Jewish.
  #25  
Old June 4th 18, 03:42 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
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Default REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:

The 2^24 number of colours are the combinations of colour data used to
display colours on a screen. Whether there are actually that many
colours displayable on a given screen is another issue: screens vary
quite a bit in quality, though much less nowadays than they did in the
Olden Days. And whether a human can distinguish them all is another
issue. And whether they can replicate natural colours in all weathers is
another issue again. As anyone who's tried to make a photo "look right"
knows.


My monitors (which are nothing special) can show all 2^24 colours
differently,


no they can't.

and I can tell the difference between any two, even if I only
change one of the R,G,B by 1.


no you definitely can't.

You do have to set the contrast, brightness,
gamma, etc correctly on them though to achieve that, which doesn't always
give the best result for watching a film, it can be too bright etc.


even then, no.
  #26  
Old June 4th 18, 03:43 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
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Default REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)

In article , Wolf K
wrote:

Can someone who is sighted imagine what it's like to be blind? Try this:
Close you eyes, and pick up your coffer cup (empty, just in case ;-)).
Now feel it all over. Can you construct a purely tactile version of the
cup? Or does your touch trigger visual images of the cup?


i once saw a group of blindfolded people walking with canes in a
shopping mall, which was near a facility to assist visually impaired
people. there was a non-blindfolded person leading them.

it was obviously training staff to better understand what visually
impaired people have to deal with in the real world.

while a few hours in a mall isn't a replacement for a lifetime of
blindness, it does give someone a better perspective on things.
  #27  
Old June 4th 18, 04:18 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Default REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

My monitors (which are nothing special) can show all 2^24 colours
differently


Some monitors are actually 6 bit, and to get 8 bits for a
color gun, they "dither" the pixel on a frame by frame
basis, to get in-between colors. And a "hint" it does this,
is if the spec says "16.2 million colors" instead of
"16.7 million colors".

https://www.hardware.fr/articles/498...-couleurs.html

It says there, that TN panels dither, whereas VA and IPS
are capable of 8 bit color per gun.

A hint you're sitting in front of a TN panel, is the
viewing angle. If moving your head a bit changes
the colors radically, that's TN. IPS has a 178 degree
viewing angle, by comparison.

You can use translate.google.com to translate the
article to English, but for some reason the figures
in the article only appear in the untranslated page.

So yes, if your monitor is nothing special, it
might really be nothing special.

Paul
  #28  
Old June 4th 18, 04:39 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
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Default REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)

In article , Paul
wrote:


My monitors (which are nothing special) can show all 2^24 colours
differently


Some monitors are actually 6 bit, and to get 8 bits for a
color gun, they "dither" the pixel on a frame by frame
basis, to get in-between colors. And a "hint" it does this,
is if the spec says "16.2 million colors" instead of
"16.7 million colors".


old (crappy) ones were and there are no color guns on lcds.

modern lcd displays are at least 8 bit, with the better ones having a
wide gamut and at least a 10 bit lut.

https://www.eizo.com/library/basics/maximum_display_colors/

also important is display calibration. most displays are not
calibrated, which means they aren't showing correct colours.



So yes, if your monitor is nothing special, it
might really be nothing special.


yep.
  #29  
Old June 4th 18, 07:08 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
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Posts: 131
Default REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)

On Mon, 04 Jun 2018 16:18:13 +0100, Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

My monitors (which are nothing special) can show all 2^24 colours
differently


Some monitors are actually 6 bit, and to get 8 bits for a
color gun, they "dither" the pixel on a frame by frame
basis, to get in-between colors. And a "hint" it does this,
is if the spec says "16.2 million colors" instead of
"16.7 million colors".

https://www.hardware.fr/articles/498...-couleurs.html

It says there, that TN panels dither, whereas VA and IPS
are capable of 8 bit color per gun.

A hint you're sitting in front of a TN panel, is the
viewing angle. If moving your head a bit changes
the colors radically, that's TN. IPS has a 178 degree
viewing angle, by comparison.

You can use translate.google.com to translate the
article to English, but for some reason the figures
in the article only appear in the untranslated page.

So yes, if your monitor is nothing special, it
might really be nothing special.


The colours don't change, it just gets darker when I move to the side.

And whatever it's doing, it's making me be able to assess what colour it is.

--
My wife was standing nude, looking in the bedroom mirror. She was not happy with what she saw and said to me, "I feel horrible. I look old, fat and ugly. I really need you to pay me a compliment."
I replied, "Your eyesight's damn near perfect."
And then the fight started.......
  #30  
Old June 4th 18, 07:13 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
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Posts: 131
Default REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)

On Mon, 04 Jun 2018 16:18:13 +0100, Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

My monitors (which are nothing special) can show all 2^24 colours
differently


Some monitors are actually 6 bit, and to get 8 bits for a
color gun, they "dither" the pixel on a frame by frame
basis, to get in-between colors. And a "hint" it does this,
is if the spec says "16.2 million colors" instead of
"16.7 million colors".

https://www.hardware.fr/articles/498...-couleurs.html

It says there, that TN panels dither, whereas VA and IPS
are capable of 8 bit color per gun.

A hint you're sitting in front of a TN panel, is the
viewing angle. If moving your head a bit changes
the colors radically, that's TN. IPS has a 178 degree
viewing angle, by comparison.

You can use translate.google.com to translate the
article to English, but for some reason the figures
in the article only appear in the untranslated page.

So yes, if your monitor is nothing special, it
might really be nothing special.


The colours don't change, it just gets darker when I move to the side.

And whatever it's doing, it's making me be able to assess what colour it is.

--
My wife was standing nude, looking in the bedroom mirror. She was not happy with what she saw and said to me, "I feel horrible. I look old, fat and ugly. I really need you to pay me a compliment."
I replied, "Your eyesight's damn near perfect."
And then the fight started.......
 




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