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#16
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REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 18:33:37 +0100, Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-06-02 10:06, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: [...] FTR, there are colour combinations that, er, disturb me. Really. Why? My point above was that no matter how you perceive colours, they're just ways of you distinguishing one object from another. [...] You're too damn "practical". Do you have the same attitude to food and drink, you know, "flavour is just way of distinguishing one food from another"? For me, colour is source of pleasure. Or not, as the case may be. In a piece of artwork I'd agree with you, but not for the colour of a car, or the paint on my livingroom wall. -- Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse. |
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#17
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REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)
In article , Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote: On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 18:33:37 +0100, Wolf K wrote: On 2018-06-02 10:06, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: [...] FTR, there are colour combinations that, er, disturb me. Really. Why? My point above was that no matter how you perceive colours, they're just ways of you distinguishing one object from another. [...] You're too damn "practical". Do you have the same attitude to food and drink, you know, "flavour is just way of distinguishing one food from another"? For me, colour is source of pleasure. Or not, as the case may be. Big difference there. Tasting food is practical - if it tastes bad, it's something your body thinks is bad for you, like mouldy food. Colours can't be bad for you. actually, they can. |
#18
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REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)
On 2-6-2018 19:44, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 18:33:37 +0100, Wolf K wrote: On 2018-06-02 10:06, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: [...] FTR, there are colour combinations that, er, disturb me. Really. Why? My point above was that no matter how you perceive colours, they're just ways of you distinguishing one object from another. [...] You're too damn "practical". Do you have the same attitude to food and drink, you know, "flavour is just way of distinguishing one food from another"? For me, colour is source of pleasure. Or not, as the case may be. Big difference there. Tasting food is practical - if it tastes bad, it's something your body thinks is bad for you, like mouldy food. Colours can't be bad for you. Ever seen yellow text on a slightly different yellow background? Colour(difference) matters. |
#19
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REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 19:47:50 +0100, Sjouke Burry wrote:
On 2-6-2018 19:44, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 18:33:37 +0100, Wolf K wrote: On 2018-06-02 10:06, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: [...] FTR, there are colour combinations that, er, disturb me. Really. Why? My point above was that no matter how you perceive colours, they're just ways of you distinguishing one object from another. [...] You're too damn "practical". Do you have the same attitude to food and drink, you know, "flavour is just way of distinguishing one food from another"? For me, colour is source of pleasure. Or not, as the case may be. Big difference there. Tasting food is practical - if it tastes bad, it's something your body thinks is bad for you, like mouldy food. Colours can't be bad for you. Ever seen yellow text on a slightly different yellow background? Colour(difference) matters. Stop moving the goalposts. We were discussing what colours "go" (a female term) with other colours, not which ones can be easily be distinguished from others. -- You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe. -- Carl Sagan |
#20
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REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)
On 06/02/2018 10:22 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
[snip] I was once asked "How many colors are there?". A difficult question, which many people can't answer, they've confused "how many colors" with "how many WORDS for colors". 2^24 (16,777,216) is a better answer than that. I agree with 2^24, that seems to be as much as the eye can distinguish. Which doesn't mean that reality is so limited. Note that some animals see better than humans, which isn't relevant either. -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another" -- Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
#21
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REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)
On 06/02/2018 01:47 PM, Sjouke Burry wrote:
[snip] Ever seen yellow text on a slightly different yellow background? Colour(difference) matters. I had a home computer in 1984. For some reason the screen would come up with light blue text on a not-quite-so-light blue background. One of the first things I would do is change the text color. -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another" -- Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
#22
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REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)
On 06/02/2018 02:48 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
[snip] We were discussing what colours "go" (a female term) with other colours, not which ones can be easily be distinguished from others. I've heard that a lot, and it never made sense. They're describing a problem with themselves, not with the colors. BTW, I see a lot of these misplaced attitudes. For example, calling a book "offensive" when the "offense" exists in your mind NOT in the book. -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another" -- Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
#23
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REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 17:19:38 +0100, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 06/02/2018 02:48 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: [snip] We were discussing what colours "go" (a female term) with other colours, not which ones can be easily be distinguished from others. I've heard that a lot, and it never made sense. They're describing a problem with themselves, not with the colors. BTW, I see a lot of these misplaced attitudes. For example, calling a book "offensive" when the "offense" exists in your mind NOT in the book. Agreed. -- How come the dove gets to be the peace symbol? How about the pillow? It has more feathers than the dove, and it doesn't have that dangerous beak! |
#24
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REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 20:34:29 +0100, Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-06-03 12:09, Mark Lloyd wrote: On 06/02/2018 10:22 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: [snip] I was once asked "How many colors are there?". A difficult question, which many people can't answer, they've confused "how many colors" with "how many WORDS for colors". 2^24 (16,777,216) is a better answer than that. I agree with 2^24, that seems to be as much as the eye can distinguish. Which doesn't mean that reality is so limited. Note that some animals see better than humans, which isn't relevant either. There's a difference between colours as measured by a spectrometer and colours as perceived by a human. Eg, there is no such colour as "brown" in the spectrum. Or "pink". Or "grey". Or etc. Indeed, but eyesight would be very confusing if we saw every object giving off 5 different wavelengths. The 2^24 number of colours are the combinations of colour data used to display colours on a screen. Whether there are actually that many colours displayable on a given screen is another issue: screens vary quite a bit in quality, though much less nowadays than they did in the Olden Days. And whether a human can distinguish them all is another issue. And whether they can replicate natural colours in all weathers is another issue again. As anyone who's tried to make a photo "look right" knows. My monitors (which are nothing special) can show all 2^24 colours differently, and I can tell the difference between any two, even if I only change one of the R,G,B by 1. You do have to set the contrast, brightness, gamma, etc correctly on them though to achieve that, which doesn't always give the best result for watching a film, it can be too bright etc. As for "see better", that's not a clear concept either. When it comes to perception, the only thing we can objectively measure or observe is what colour (or other sensory) _differences_ the animal can distinguish. While it's true that bees can distinguish ultraviolet wavelengths, that doesn't mean they "see better". They see well enough for their survival, and that's that counts. Indeed, they're probably worse than us at colours that don't matter to them. But they're good at spotting the UV LEDs in my insect zapper :-) Man do they stink when they burn.... Or take frogs. Judging by their behaviour, they can't see fly-sized blobs unless those blobs move. I surmise that's similar to human peripheral vision, which is much better at distinguishing moving blobs of light than still ones. Indeed, which is why a spider running across the carpet scares the **** out of you. Bottom line: what's "out there" isn't what we think it is. That's a philosophical question. So what do you believe the world really is and how would we imagine it? Can someone who's blind possibly know what it's like for sighted people? -- Scots are tightwads who are saving up to become Jewish. |
#25
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REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)
In article , Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote: The 2^24 number of colours are the combinations of colour data used to display colours on a screen. Whether there are actually that many colours displayable on a given screen is another issue: screens vary quite a bit in quality, though much less nowadays than they did in the Olden Days. And whether a human can distinguish them all is another issue. And whether they can replicate natural colours in all weathers is another issue again. As anyone who's tried to make a photo "look right" knows. My monitors (which are nothing special) can show all 2^24 colours differently, no they can't. and I can tell the difference between any two, even if I only change one of the R,G,B by 1. no you definitely can't. You do have to set the contrast, brightness, gamma, etc correctly on them though to achieve that, which doesn't always give the best result for watching a film, it can be too bright etc. even then, no. |
#26
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REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)
In article , Wolf K
wrote: Can someone who is sighted imagine what it's like to be blind? Try this: Close you eyes, and pick up your coffer cup (empty, just in case ;-)). Now feel it all over. Can you construct a purely tactile version of the cup? Or does your touch trigger visual images of the cup? i once saw a group of blindfolded people walking with canes in a shopping mall, which was near a facility to assist visually impaired people. there was a non-blindfolded person leading them. it was obviously training staff to better understand what visually impaired people have to deal with in the real world. while a few hours in a mall isn't a replacement for a lifetime of blindness, it does give someone a better perspective on things. |
#27
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REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
My monitors (which are nothing special) can show all 2^24 colours differently Some monitors are actually 6 bit, and to get 8 bits for a color gun, they "dither" the pixel on a frame by frame basis, to get in-between colors. And a "hint" it does this, is if the spec says "16.2 million colors" instead of "16.7 million colors". https://www.hardware.fr/articles/498...-couleurs.html It says there, that TN panels dither, whereas VA and IPS are capable of 8 bit color per gun. A hint you're sitting in front of a TN panel, is the viewing angle. If moving your head a bit changes the colors radically, that's TN. IPS has a 178 degree viewing angle, by comparison. You can use translate.google.com to translate the article to English, but for some reason the figures in the article only appear in the untranslated page. So yes, if your monitor is nothing special, it might really be nothing special. Paul |
#28
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REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)
In article , Paul
wrote: My monitors (which are nothing special) can show all 2^24 colours differently Some monitors are actually 6 bit, and to get 8 bits for a color gun, they "dither" the pixel on a frame by frame basis, to get in-between colors. And a "hint" it does this, is if the spec says "16.2 million colors" instead of "16.7 million colors". old (crappy) ones were and there are no color guns on lcds. modern lcd displays are at least 8 bit, with the better ones having a wide gamut and at least a 10 bit lut. https://www.eizo.com/library/basics/maximum_display_colors/ also important is display calibration. most displays are not calibrated, which means they aren't showing correct colours. So yes, if your monitor is nothing special, it might really be nothing special. yep. |
#29
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REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)
On Mon, 04 Jun 2018 16:18:13 +0100, Paul wrote:
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: My monitors (which are nothing special) can show all 2^24 colours differently Some monitors are actually 6 bit, and to get 8 bits for a color gun, they "dither" the pixel on a frame by frame basis, to get in-between colors. And a "hint" it does this, is if the spec says "16.2 million colors" instead of "16.7 million colors". https://www.hardware.fr/articles/498...-couleurs.html It says there, that TN panels dither, whereas VA and IPS are capable of 8 bit color per gun. A hint you're sitting in front of a TN panel, is the viewing angle. If moving your head a bit changes the colors radically, that's TN. IPS has a 178 degree viewing angle, by comparison. You can use translate.google.com to translate the article to English, but for some reason the figures in the article only appear in the untranslated page. So yes, if your monitor is nothing special, it might really be nothing special. The colours don't change, it just gets darker when I move to the side. And whatever it's doing, it's making me be able to assess what colour it is. -- My wife was standing nude, looking in the bedroom mirror. She was not happy with what she saw and said to me, "I feel horrible. I look old, fat and ugly. I really need you to pay me a compliment." I replied, "Your eyesight's damn near perfect." And then the fight started....... |
#30
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REQUIRED Windows 10 UPGRADE, (Before June 1, 2018)
On Mon, 04 Jun 2018 16:18:13 +0100, Paul wrote:
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: My monitors (which are nothing special) can show all 2^24 colours differently Some monitors are actually 6 bit, and to get 8 bits for a color gun, they "dither" the pixel on a frame by frame basis, to get in-between colors. And a "hint" it does this, is if the spec says "16.2 million colors" instead of "16.7 million colors". https://www.hardware.fr/articles/498...-couleurs.html It says there, that TN panels dither, whereas VA and IPS are capable of 8 bit color per gun. A hint you're sitting in front of a TN panel, is the viewing angle. If moving your head a bit changes the colors radically, that's TN. IPS has a 178 degree viewing angle, by comparison. You can use translate.google.com to translate the article to English, but for some reason the figures in the article only appear in the untranslated page. So yes, if your monitor is nothing special, it might really be nothing special. The colours don't change, it just gets darker when I move to the side. And whatever it's doing, it's making me be able to assess what colour it is. -- My wife was standing nude, looking in the bedroom mirror. She was not happy with what she saw and said to me, "I feel horrible. I look old, fat and ugly. I really need you to pay me a compliment." I replied, "Your eyesight's damn near perfect." And then the fight started....... |
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