Any technical ideas, offhand, why the Tor Browser icon is messed up (only) in the Windows tile menu?

Any technical ideas, offhand, why the Tor Browser icon is so messed up in
the Windows Orthodox tile menu?
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_orthogonal899.jpg

I didn't do anything special to create it other than "pin to start".

Last week I tested out Spybot Anti-Beacon to kill Cortana-to-Bing:
https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/
But it screwed up the system so badly that I couldn't boot.

So I bought a new HDD and reloaded Windows Pro 1803 from scratch.

In doing so, I wrote up two dozen separate tutorials for how to set up a
Windows 10 system perfectly to your liking...
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_windows_setup.jpg

One of those tutorials is how to create a two-level hierarchical Orthodox
Start Menu that mirrors the cascade menu and the software hierarchy, the
DVD disc of archived programs, and the app hierarchy.

I'm not done setting up the start menu (because I'm still installing
programs, and writing the steps to install each one in detail), but one
question that pops up instantly is ....

Q: Why does the Tor Browser Bundle have the same icon as does Firefox but
only in the Windows Orthodox Start Menu?

Note that the Tor Browser Bundle icon is normal everywhere else but in the
Orthodox Start Menu.
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_icons_firefox_tbb.jpg

Note: I remember seeing something similar in Ubuntu under Unity, years ago,
where somehow the icons only in the menus are all screwed up by the
operating system.

--
Please, if you are like nospam or Good Guy and you have no technical
knowledge, then posting constant drivel won't help anyone.

Arlen Holder wrote:
Any technical ideas, offhand, why the Tor Browser icon is so messed up in
the Windows Orthodox tile menu?
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_orthogonal899.jpg

I didn't do anything special to create it other than "pin to start".

Last week I tested out Spybot Anti-Beacon to kill Cortana-to-Bing:
https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/
But it screwed up the system so badly that I couldn't boot.

So I bought a new HDD and reloaded Windows Pro 1803 from scratch.

In doing so, I wrote up two dozen separate tutorials for how to set up a
Windows 10 system perfectly to your liking...
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_windows_setup.jpg

One of those tutorials is how to create a two-level hierarchical Orthodox
Start Menu that mirrors the cascade menu and the software hierarchy, the
DVD disc of archived programs, and the app hierarchy.

I'm not done setting up the start menu (because I'm still installing
programs, and writing the steps to install each one in detail), but one
question that pops up instantly is ....

Q: Why does the Tor Browser Bundle have the same icon as does Firefox but
only in the Windows Orthodox Start Menu?

Note that the Tor Browser Bundle icon is normal everywhere else but in the
Orthodox Start Menu.
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_icons_firefox_tbb.jpg

Note: I remember seeing something similar in Ubuntu under Unity, years ago,
where somehow the icons only in the menus are all screwed up by the
operating system.


The Tor program appears to be pinned to the Task Bar.

Do you think that's why the icon is using a mask up above ?

AFAIK, the Tor Browser is based on Firefox. But, you're not allowed
to use "official branding" if making a fork of Firefox. That's why
one release of it is called "IceWeasel", to avoid such duplication.

I see two tiles near the top of your picture, one
a Firefox tile which using using a mask overlay to clip
off material around the edges. Where as the Tor icon
is using a mask so that only the "active" part gets
displayed. There's no background color as a result.

And that's similar to what is happening to the item
pinned to the Task Bar. It's using a mask.

Paul

On Sat, 09 Jun 2018 02:40:08 -0400, Paul wrote:

The Tor program appears to be pinned to the Task Bar.

Hi Paul,
Thanks for noticing the detail, as my desktop is an embarassing royal mess
at the moment simply because I just installed a few dozen programs and I
haven't set up the Windows user interface neatly yet.

However, mess aside, your observation is correct that the Tor Browser
Bundle (TBB) icon is in the following four locations:
1. It's in the left-side alphabetical Start Menu
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_1_start_menu.jpg
2. It's in the orthodox tiled Start Menu
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_2_start_menu.jpg
3. It's in the matching Windows 10 cascade menu
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_3_cascade_menu.jpg
4. And it's in the task bar
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_4_taskbar.jpg

Do you think that's why the icon is using a mask up above ?

I don't actually understand your question because I don't know what "mask
up" means.

Googling...for what "mask up" means...
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb761389(v=vs.85).aspx
"An image list can also include a monochrome bitmap that contains
*masks* that are used to draw images transparently (icon style)."
"There are two types of image lists: nonmasked and masked.
A nonmasked image list consists of a color bitmap that contains one
or more images. A masked image list consists of two bitmaps of
equal size. The first is a color bitmap that contains the images,
and the second is a monochrome bitmap that contains a series of
masks¡Xone for each image in the first bitmap."

Hmmm... is the mask the icon itself?
(I'm confused.)

AFAIK, the Tor Browser is based on Firefox.

Yes. Indeed.
Look at the icon in the installation hierarchy for "Start Tor Browser".
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_location1.jpg

And, look at the icon below that, in Browser, for "firefox.exe".
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_location2.jpg

Every icon is just fine, except the Orthodox Windows Start Menu tile!

Sometimes I see bugs simply because I never put programs in their default
location, so, sometimes there are hard-coded paths which fail. Dunno if
that's what is happening here.

But, you're not allowed
to use "official branding" if making a fork of Firefox. That's why
one release of it is called "IceWeasel", to avoid such duplication.

The TBB that I have is the "offical" TBB from the canonical location:
https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser.html.en?

I didn't do anything special with it except to put it in a custom location:

I see two tiles near the top of your picture, one
a Firefox tile which using using a mask overlay to clip
off material around the edges.

I don't know about this "mask overlay" but I agree that the two tiles, one
for Firefox.exe and the other for the Firefox inside of the Tor
installation hierarchy, as 'slightly' different.

Where as the Tor icon
is using a mask so that only the "active" part gets
displayed. There's no background color as a result.

Something is different about that tor icon.
BTW, notice the Opera icon?
It's also different.
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_2_start_menu.jpg

I don't (yet) understand why.

More importantly, the question is how to CONTROL what shows up in the
Orthodox Start Menu since it clearly uses a DIFFERENT mechanism than all
the other locations do.

And that's similar to what is happening to the item
pinned to the Task Bar. It's using a mask.

I'm still confused what you mean by a mask.

Are you intimating that the "green" icon for the Tor Browser Bundle is on
top of the normal orange'ish Firefox icon?

BTW, a related question, which I need to solve, is how to CHANGE the icon
for the {app,data,software,tmp} hierarchies in the orthodox tiled menu. If
the answer is RTFM, that's fine as I haven't looked it up yet (as I'm still
setting up the system and writing all the tutorials for how to set up a
perfect Windows 10 setup - so everything is a mess at the moment).

Arlen Holder wrote:
On Sat, 09 Jun 2018 02:40:08 -0400, Paul wrote:

The Tor program appears to be pinned to the Task Bar.

Hi Paul,
Thanks for noticing the detail, as my desktop is an embarassing royal mess
at the moment simply because I just installed a few dozen programs and I
haven't set up the Windows user interface neatly yet.

However, mess aside, your observation is correct that the Tor Browser
Bundle (TBB) icon is in the following four locations:
1. It's in the left-side alphabetical Start Menu
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_1_start_menu.jpg
2. It's in the orthodox tiled Start Menu
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_2_start_menu.jpg
3. It's in the matching Windows 10 cascade menu
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_3_cascade_menu.jpg
4. And it's in the task bar
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_4_taskbar.jpg

Do you think that's why the icon is using a mask up above ?

I don't actually understand your question because I don't know what "mask
up" means.

Googling...for what "mask up" means...
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb761389(v=vs.85).aspx
"An image list can also include a monochrome bitmap that contains
*masks* that are used to draw images transparently (icon style)."
"There are two types of image lists: nonmasked and masked.
A nonmasked image list consists of a color bitmap that contains one
or more images. A masked image list consists of two bitmaps of
equal size. The first is a color bitmap that contains the images,
and the second is a monochrome bitmap that contains a series of
masks¡Xone for each image in the first bitmap."

Hmmm... is the mask the icon itself?
(I'm confused.)

AFAIK, the Tor Browser is based on Firefox.

Yes. Indeed.
Look at the icon in the installation hierarchy for "Start Tor Browser".
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_location1.jpg

And, look at the icon below that, in Browser, for "firefox.exe".
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_location2.jpg

Every icon is just fine, except the Orthodox Windows Start Menu tile!

Sometimes I see bugs simply because I never put programs in their default
location, so, sometimes there are hard-coded paths which fail. Dunno if
that's what is happening here.

But, you're not allowed
to use "official branding" if making a fork of Firefox. That's why
one release of it is called "IceWeasel", to avoid such duplication.

The TBB that I have is the "offical" TBB from the canonical location:
https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser.html.en?

I didn't do anything special with it except to put it in a custom location:

I see two tiles near the top of your picture, one
a Firefox tile which using using a mask overlay to clip
off material around the edges.

I don't know about this "mask overlay" but I agree that the two tiles, one
for Firefox.exe and the other for the Firefox inside of the Tor
installation hierarchy, as 'slightly' different.

Where as the Tor icon
is using a mask so that only the "active" part gets
displayed. There's no background color as a result.

Something is different about that tor icon.
BTW, notice the Opera icon?
It's also different.
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_2_start_menu.jpg

I don't (yet) understand why.

More importantly, the question is how to CONTROL what shows up in the
Orthodox Start Menu since it clearly uses a DIFFERENT mechanism than all
the other locations do.

And that's similar to what is happening to the item
pinned to the Task Bar. It's using a mask.

I'm still confused what you mean by a mask.

Are you intimating that the "green" icon for the Tor Browser Bundle is on
top of the normal orange'ish Firefox icon?

BTW, a related question, which I need to solve, is how to CHANGE the icon
for the {app,data,software,tmp} hierarchies in the orthodox tiled menu. If
the answer is RTFM, that's fine as I haven't looked it up yet (as I'm still
setting up the system and writing all the tutorials for how to set up a
perfect Windows 10 setup - so everything is a mess at the moment).

The tiles are likely held in a database.

https://superuser.com/questions/9604...-in-windows-10

Orthodox: %HOMEPATH%\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\Database\ve datamodel.edb

I don't really fool around with the menu, or even bother
with Start10, so it's not like I understand the importance
of what you're doing. Since this is a rolling release, some
update will come in and mess it all up again. I don't
mind customizing things, if I have a fair degree of certainty
an update won't ruin them.

After you've used computers for a while, you begin to realize that
certain parts of them are extremely unstable. Anything with icons
in it is bad news. If the computer wants to put something
like that in a random arrangement, who am I to argue with
such genius ?

Paul

On Sat, 09 Jun 2018 04:26:36 -0400, Paul wrote:

The tiles are likely held in a database.
https://superuser.com/questions/9604...-in-windows-10
Orthodox: %HOMEPATH%\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\Database\ve datamodel.edb

Hi Paul,
You're on to something there...

Bearing in mind there are many different ways to get an icon in the
Orthodox Start Menu, I ran an experiment.
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_orthodox_1.jpg

I right-clicked the orthodox start-menu tile for "Start Tor Browser" and
selected "Open File Location". It opened:
%AppData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Start Tor Browser
Which is located in:
C:\Users\user\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\St art Menu\Programs\
Which means that's just one of the many ways it could have gotten there.

Given that one of many ways doesn't work, I unpinned it from the Orthodox
Start Menu, and re-pinned it a second (of many possible) ways.
a. I went to C:\app\browser\http\ff_based\tbb\Start Tor Browser
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_orthodox_2.jpg
b. I right clicked and selected "Pin to Start"
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_orthodox_3.jpg
c. Darn. It's still the wrong icon!

I don't really fool around with the menu, or even bother
with Start10, so it's not like I understand the importance
of what you're doing.

We're all very old hands at Microsoft menus.
For *years*, we used the Classic Shell hack to get cascaded menus back.

But, you can *already* easily do cascade menus in Windows 10 native.
And, besides, Microsoft must have planned orthodox tiles to be used.

So, I'm just trying to use it in an effective manner.

As an aside, I have an entire tutorial in the works on how exactly to
perfectly organize the orthodox Start Menu, which entails planning it all
out in advance (much easier to do, and, in fact, already long ago done, if
you already plan where all your software goes).

Then you make *placeholders* (those are the little folder icons you see at
the start of every one of my orthodox menu groups).
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_orthodox_4.jpg

The great news is that the organization of the orthodox Start Menu was done
years ago, in that the groups are exactly the same as the tasks that
everyone does on their computer (the actual groups being of personal
preference so we're only talking here about the task-oriented grouping
concept).

Since this is a rolling release, some
update will come in and mess it all up again. I don't
mind customizing things, if I have a fair degree of certainty
an update won't ruin them.

I have had Microsoft brick my OS because I've customized too much, and I've
shut off updates for years, and I've messed with the registry so bad at
times that the machine wouldn't boot, etc.

No big deal.
Without experimentation, there is no learning.

My goal is to get that idiotic orthodox Start Menu to actually work.

It's a mess right now because I'm still installing software, but it had the
basic organization in seconds, since that's so easily done if you already
have an idea how you organize your app installation hierarchy.

The good news is that everything is always exactly where it belongs.

After you've used computers for a while, you begin to realize that
certain parts of them are extremely unstable. Anything with icons
in it is bad news. If the computer wants to put something
like that in a random arrangement, who am I to argue with
such genius ?

Trust me, Paul, in the olden days of Win95, I used to *clean* all the crap
in the Microsoft-provided directories, and I used to organize the official
"Programs" menu, but then everything kept pooping into those locations so I
gave up.

Now I only try to organize my own menus and installation hierarchies,
completely outside of the Microsoft-provided directories.

I also used WinAero and the Classic Shell like you can't believe - but as
you noted, Microsoft crapped on all that with every update - which is why I
turned off updates for years - until Microsoft finally bricked the system
in the January update.

I learned to leave some things alone, as you did.

For example, I put NOTHING in the C:\Users hierarchy. Nothing. Anything I
need, like screenshots, I edit the registry to MOVE them so that nothing
goes in the C:\Users hierarchy that I can help.

Likewise with that idiotic Program Files set of hierarchies.
The basic rule is never use a Microsoft-created directory because it WILL
be polluted outside your control.

I'm sure there is a way to move the location of the orthodox Start Menu,
just as there is a way to get cascaded menus wherever you want them to be,
but I haven't explored moving it yet since I'm still working on a tutorial
for people to set it up perfectly first.

Then we'll worry about putting it elsewhere, outside of the
microsft-provided hierarchies.

Back to the topic, I will try another experiment to see why the "Start Tor
Browser" uses the wrong icon only in the Orthodox Start Menu.

If others could test this out, it would be useful.
Here's how to test.

1. Install the Tor Browser Bundle
https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser.html.en
2. Right click on any shortcut the installer makes
3. Hit "Pin to Start".

What does the icon look like on your Win10 v1803 system?

Arlen Holder wrote:

Orthodox Start Menu
orthodox start-menu tile
unpinned it from the Orthodox Start Menu
orthodox tiles to be used.
orthodox Start Menu
orthodox menu groups
17_orthodox_4.jpg
orthodox Start Menu was done
idiotic orthodox Start Menu
the orthodox Start Menu,
the Orthodox Start Menu.

I guess 'canonical' is no longer buzzword of the month ...

On 06/09/2018 9:27 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
Arlen Holder wrote:

Orthodox Start Menu
orthodox start-menu tile unpinned it from the Orthodox Start Menu
orthodox tiles to be used.
orthodox Start Menu
orthodox menu groups
17_orthodox_4.jpg
orthodox Start Menu was done
idiotic orthodox Start Menu the orthodox Start Menu,
the Orthodox Start Menu.

I guess 'canonical' is no longer buzzword of the month ...

'It', must have found a new dictionary!

Rene

On Sat, 9 Jun 2018 09:33:22 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

On 06/09/2018 9:27 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
Arlen Holder wrote:

Orthodox Start Menu
orthodox start-menu tile unpinned it from the Orthodox Start Menu
orthodox tiles to be used.
orthodox Start Menu
orthodox menu groups
17_orthodox_4.jpg
orthodox Start Menu was done
idiotic orthodox Start Menu the orthodox Start Menu,
the Orthodox Start Menu.

I guess 'canonical' is no longer buzzword of the month ...

'It', must have found a new dictionary!

The month before that it was 'tribal knowledge'.

On Sat, 9 Jun 2018 15:27:32 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

I guess 'canonical' is no longer buzzword of the month ...

Andy Burns, the troll,

*Do you know anything about the technical topic?*

Or do you just want to waste everyone's time with your childish trolls?

--
I will not further respond to anything Andy Burns the troll says, in this
thread, unless he actually has something of technical value to contribute.

On Sat, 9 Jun 2018 09:33:22 -0500, Rene Lamontagne wrote:

'It', must have found a new dictionary!

The morons are coming out in spades, such as Rene Lamontagne, the troll.

For all you idiot trolls out there ...
I don't ask easy technical questions.

*So I know most of you are utterly clueless.*

Most of you, like Rene Lamontagne, can't answer ANY technical question.

*I realize all Rene Lanontagne can do, is troll.*

But why do you, Rene Lamontagne, prove you can only troll in every post?

On Sat, 09 Jun 2018 10:25:23 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

The month before that it was 'tribal knowledge'.

Jesus, even you Char Jackson can only troll?

Really?

Don't you guys know that you should STFU if you don't have any technical
knoweldge?

Why do you have to *prove* that you are clueless?

I don't understand you trolls.

Why do you waste everyone's time, Char Jackson, with this drivel?

--
I will not respond to anything the trolls have to say other than to call
them out for the clueless time-wasting trolls that they are.

On 06/09/2018 10:47 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
On Sat, 9 Jun 2018 09:33:22 -0500, Rene Lamontagne wrote:

'It', must have found a new dictionary!

The morons are coming out in spades, such as Rene Lamontagne, the troll.

For all you idiot trolls out there ...
I don't ask easy technical questions.

*So I know most of you are utterly clueless.*

Most of you, like Rene Lamontagne, can't answer ANY technical question.

*I realize all Rene Lanontagne can do, is troll.*

But why do you, Rene Lamontagne, prove you can only troll in every post?


Am not, 1+1=2, so there

Rene

On Sat, 9 Jun 2018 10:56:36 -0500, Rene Lamontagne wrote:

Am not, 1+1=2, so there

*Please do not answer technical threads if you don't have a clue.*

There is a reason I'm coming out strong against you trolls.

A technical thread should stay technical.

But since you're clueless - all you *can* do, is troll.

But why prove you're technically clueless in every post?

Stop that.

If you are clueless - then just STFU.
It's that simple.

--
I will not respond to further drivel from Rene Lamontagne in this thread.

On Sat, 9 Jun 2018 15:49:29 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:

On Sat, 09 Jun 2018 10:25:23 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

The month before that it was 'tribal knowledge'.

Jesus, even you Char Jackson can only troll?

In my defense,
a) my contribution was technically correct, as was Andy's,
b) this thread covers a topic that I don't care about,
c) we're displaying a bit of humor,
d) I employ the Usenet chit-chat model,
e) it's the weekend, time to let off some steam,
f) you're free to ignore it.*

*No need to regurgitate the poop-at-a-picnic story yet again. We've all
heard it.

As an aside, you claim to have written thousands of detailed tutorials.
Can you provide a link, so that I may browse them? I hate asking that
here, in a technical thread, but you've said that you don't read threads
that you haven't started, so it's my only opportunity.

On 09 Jun 2018, Char Jackson wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-10:

As an aside, you claim to have written thousands of detailed
tutorials. Can you provide a link, so that I may browse them? I
hate asking that here, in a technical thread, but you've said that
you don't read threads that you haven't started, so it's my only
opportunity.

Don't hold your breath.