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#16
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dub408-m.hotmail.com not working
Homer wrote:
I was forced to change domain hotmail.com to outlook.com. I don't know if hotmail.com has onedrive and office live integrated in same webpage. Everyone that I've seen that thinks they were forced to move from Hotmail (or Live) to Outlook did so only because Microsoft prodded them to make the change. I decided to keep my Hotmail and Live accounts. When the announcement arrived and the prompt showed up in the webmail UI, I simply created a new and separate Outlook.com account (to reserve my username under that domain *if* I later wanted to use that e-mail address). So now I have 6 separate free e-mail accounts with Microsoft: 2 each at Hotmail.com (inuse), Live.com (reserved), and Outlook.com (reserved). The accounts are not connected or shared. They are independent accounts. But they can all use the same mail servers, just like every user of Hotmail, and every user of Live, and every user of Outlook.com are also sharing the same mail servers. Despite Microsoft making it look like users had to move from Hotmail to Outlook.com, that was not true. At some point, Microsoft may drop the Hotmail.com and Live.com domains for e-mail accounts. If that happens, and assuming they ample time for a warning (they didn't for the downgrade on Skydrive disk space), I'll move my e-mails from Hotmail.com to Outlook.com and go on with Outlook.com after they kill Hotmail.com. However, I was NOT forced by Microsoft to move away from Hotmail.com. Users just thought that was what they had to do and I'm pretty sure that back then that Microsoft deliberately misled them to that conclusion. |
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#17
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dub408-m.hotmail.com not working
.. . .winston wrote:
VanguardLH wrote: Homer wrote: I think you should update hotmail to outlook. That won't affect the EAS (Exchange Active Sync) protocol being used. The hostname the OP gave for the mail server looks very much like those used for EAS connects by MS Outlook 2013 (and perhaps WLM, too). The domain name won't affect the mail protocol. You connect to the same [regional] mail server no matter if you use Hotmail.com, Live.com, or Outlook.com as the domain. Even with the mail servers having different hostnames, you'll find a reverse DNS lookup points to the same IP address. Also, when using a local e-mail client, you aren't connecting to a web site but to a mail server. The domain name is just how you get there, not what's running there. Many Hotmail users that got migrated to Outlook.com (because they thought it was a requirement) now have linked Hotmail and Outlook.com accounts: multiple accounts but using the same mail service. I have 6 Microsoft accounts: 2 Hotmail.com, 2 Live.com, and 2 Outlook.com. I have used POP, IMAP, Deltasync, and EAS, in that order, to connect to all of them at one time or another. I use the same mail server hostname for each one. To domain name is irrelevant other than to find the host, and its the same host under multiple hostnames. However, someone in the UK will be using a regional mail server in their area or however Microsoft wants to setup load balancing for their worldwide populace of users. Technically there was no migration of accounts from Hotmail.com to Outlook.com - the web interface UI was the change. What did occur was the option (if the was available) to switch the account from a to . Key word is 'available' since their can only be one (i.e. might opted for before elvis@hotmail or live or msn.com decided to do the same). My recollection is that the users that chose to migrate back then would still keep their old Hotmail.com and Live.com e-mail addresses after moving to the Outlook.com e-mail address. The old Hotmail and Live addresses became, I think, aliases in their new Outlook.com account. It's been awhile since that faked force migration happened. Microsoft led users to believe they had to migrate to Outlook.com and many did. My aunt, stepmom, and others asked me about it and I told them that they did not have to change and they could continue using their old Hotmail e-mail address and account. Yep, just the webmail UI changed. It's been so long since I used the webmail UI to Microsoft accounts that I can't say if the new UI is better than the old one. I only know that it's different than before and tries to emulate a local client UI than the typical webmail UI. |
#18
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dub408-m.hotmail.com not working
Martin wrote:
VanguardLH wrote: Let's be really simple: - Are you running a program on your computer to look at your e-mails? If so, what is that e-mail program? Oulook 2013 (part of Office 365 personal) Okay, much clearer now. You are running Microsoft Outlook 2013 as a local e-mail client on your computer to connect it to Microsoft's e-mail servers to access e-mails in your account using the POP email protocol. Is this a new problem (the setup was working before and recently stopped working) or is has this problem always existed from the moment you installed Outlook 2013 and tried to connect to your e-mail account? That is, is this a new problem in an old setup that was working before or is this a a new setup problem and this problem has always been there? Did you configure the account defined in Outlook 2013 to remember your login credentials? See: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/ou...102809384.aspx Did you enable the "remember" checkbox in that Outlook's account definition? In the logon information you entered in the account defined within Outlook 2013, did you use your FULL e-mail address as the username? If your username is "martinmartian", and if the domain for your account is "outlook.com", then the username you must specify in the account logon is ", not just "martinmartian". The domain is required because Microsoft operates e-mail services on several domains and they need to know under which domain is defined your e-mail account. The problem with POP (and IMAP) is that they return a very limited set of status messages. In POP, there are only 2 statuses returned: OK and ERR. There is no standardization on the comment field that can be optionally included with the OK and ERR statuses so those comments cannot be relied upon in a program that is hardcoded to recognize only some strings, if any, beyond just the OK and ERR status itself. That means if there is a login failure, the client (MS Outlook 2013) won't know why there was a failure, only that there was one. So the client often issues a "login failure" message when that wasn't the error cause at all. Did the server return anything useful for the login failure? Go to the Send/Receive menu tab in the ribbon, click Show Progress, and look at the Error tab to see if there's any info there about the logon error. While Outlook (the program, not the Outlook.com site) has a logging function, it's a bit daunting to figure out (plus Microsoft formats it like how they like rather than just show the commands and output from them in the order issued to the server). First let's see if you can even log into your e-mail account. Load your web browser and visit your e-mail account that way (i.e., using the webmail UI to your account). See if you can login as a test that your logon credentials (username and password) are still valid (i.e., some hacker hasn't changed them). Use the webmail UI to verify your login is still valid. The username will be or , not just your username. That's because the webmail UI accepts logons for multiple domains: Hotmail.com, Live.com, and Outlook.com. You have to identify under which domain is defined your account. See if you can login okay using their webmail UI. That will verify if teh login credentials still work there. I have run across an intervening security page that has me enter characters presented in a CAPTCHA image. They do this to verify a human is using the free account rather than a spambot. This intervening security page has blocked me from logging on using a local e-mail client (e.g., MS Outlook) until I used the webmail UI to get past the security page. This hit me about twice a year. I don't know if Microsoft is still doing this since it's been a long time it last happened to me. I had to use the webmail UI to their e-mail service, login that way, get past the security page, logoff, and then my local e-mail client worked okay thereafter (until it happened again). Something else that I've read for other users is that after logging in using the webmail UI that they see their account is locked. It has violated Microsoft's terms of use for a free personal-use account. You may have sent to more recipients per day than your free personal-use account permits. Last I checked (a couple years ago), a new account could only send to some limited number of recipients per day. That was a per-recipient quota (not how many e-mails you sent but to how many recipients you sent e-mails). Last I heard (I haven't checked for awhile), and as your reputation goes up so you can send more e-mails, the quota was 400 recipients per day when using their webmail UI and 100 recipients per day when connecting using a local e-mail client. They have other anti-abuse quotas. If you bulk mail out lots of messages but don't keep your contacts up to date, you end up sending to recipients that no longer exist (or never existed). This results in getting NDRs (Non-Delivery Reports) or DSNs (Delivery Status Notifications), either of which means your e-mail was not deliverable. As I recall, there is a limit on how many NDRs you can produce per day. Personal-use users might create a couple a day trying to deliver to someone who no longer has that account or the sender is using the wrong e-mail address. It is the spamming and bulk mailing users that generate tons of NDRs and why their accounts get locked for abuse violation. The users reported seeing an intervening security page on logon showed their account was locked (not deleted but just locked). They had to click a link that took them to a page to request their account get unlocked; else, I think, they had to wait 24 days from when their account got locked for it to get unlocked. They violated some anti-abuse quota or perhaps were reported by others (recipients) as a spam source so their account got locked. It may also get locked when their account got hacked and abused by someone else; i.e., a spammer got into their account and abused it. Microsoft won't know if it's you or a hacker using an account. They just verify the correct login credentials were entered to allow use of that account. See what happens when you use the webmail UI to your account to login. |
#19
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dub408-m.hotmail.com not working
On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 13:50:53 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
Despite Microsoft making it look like users had to move from Hotmail to Outlook.com, that was not true. At some point, Microsoft may drop the Hotmail.com and Live.com domains for e-mail accounts. If that happens, and assuming they ample time for a warning (they didn't for the downgrade on Skydrive disk space), I'll move my e-mails from Hotmail.com to Outlook.com and go on with Outlook.com after they kill Hotmail.com. However, I was NOT forced by Microsoft to move away from Hotmail.com. Users just thought that was what they had to do and I'm pretty sure that back then that Microsoft deliberately misled them to that conclusion. Just curious as to why you wanted a Microsoft account rather than one of the many other choices available. |
#20
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dub408-m.hotmail.com not working
VanguardLH wrote:
. . .winston wrote: VanguardLH wrote: Homer wrote: I think you should update hotmail to outlook. That won't affect the EAS (Exchange Active Sync) protocol being used. The hostname the OP gave for the mail server looks very much like those used for EAS connects by MS Outlook 2013 (and perhaps WLM, too). The domain name won't affect the mail protocol. You connect to the same [regional] mail server no matter if you use Hotmail.com, Live.com, or Outlook.com as the domain. Even with the mail servers having different hostnames, you'll find a reverse DNS lookup points to the same IP address. Also, when using a local e-mail client, you aren't connecting to a web site but to a mail server. The domain name is just how you get there, not what's running there. Many Hotmail users that got migrated to Outlook.com (because they thought it was a requirement) now have linked Hotmail and Outlook.com accounts: multiple accounts but using the same mail service. I have 6 Microsoft accounts: 2 Hotmail.com, 2 Live.com, and 2 Outlook.com. I have used POP, IMAP, Deltasync, and EAS, in that order, to connect to all of them at one time or another. I use the same mail server hostname for each one. To domain name is irrelevant other than to find the host, and its the same host under multiple hostnames. However, someone in the UK will be using a regional mail server in their area or however Microsoft wants to setup load balancing for their worldwide populace of users. Technically there was no migration of accounts from Hotmail.com to Outlook.com - the web interface UI was the change. What did occur was the option (if the was available) to switch the account from a to . Key word is 'available' since their can only be one (i.e. might opted for before elvis@hotmail or live or msn.com decided to do the same). My recollection is that the users that chose to migrate back then would still keep their old Hotmail.com and Live.com e-mail addresses after moving to the Outlook.com e-mail address. The old Hotmail and Live addresses became, I think, aliases in their new Outlook.com account. It's been awhile since that faked force migration happened. Microsoft led users to believe they had to migrate to Outlook.com and many did. My aunt, stepmom, and others asked me about it and I told them that they did not have to change and they could continue using their old Hotmail e-mail address and account. Yep, just the webmail UI changed. It's been so long since I used the webmail UI to Microsoft accounts that I can't say if the new UI is better than the old one. I only know that it's different than before and tries to emulate a local client UI than the typical webmail UI. Correct, the upgrade (not migrate) option to retain as an alias account was available (except for msn.com which was not included since many msn.com accounts continue to be subscription based) That notification also stated the following (information which most missed by not reading the entire notice) "We highly recommend that you upgrade to Outlook.com with your existing Hotmail account, rather than creating a new account." That caution was also echoed in a corresponding blog post which even stressed it further qp Important: Don’t sign-up for a new account; just sign-in with your existing Hotmail account. You don’t need to change your address to use Outlook; in fact, if you sign-up for a new address, there is no way to combine or merge that new account with your old account. /qp The upgrade only provided a change to the web user interface (Outlook.com vs. the earlier Hotmail.com look) but it was also a given (and publicly available information) that eventually the Outlook.com UI would replace the Hotmail.com web UI permanently. Upgrade was simple...sign in to any of the available urls (Hotmail.com, Live.com, Msn.com, Outlook.com). A box was presented to upgrade to the Outlook.com UI. Click the box. If not selected, the option to upgrade remained in the always available Hotmail options menu (upper right) Nothing fancy - upgrade during Outlook.com preview, upgrade when preview ended and Outlook.com went RTW, or wait and let MSFT do it automatically later. With so many Hotmail type accounts (approach 0.5 billion when including all Hotmail, MSn, Live, Outlook.com domains) the pros and cons of the old Hotmail UI vs. its 'Classic' Hotmail and MSN predecessors, vs. Outlook.com are plentiful. From my perspective the Outlook.com UI is much better, more feature capable, and provides much better integration with continued evolution across the supported web UI services (OneDrive, Office Apps, Contacts, and Calendar)...the biggest weakness imo, is the inability for the seemingly old Calendar feature set to adapt/share/integrate other web UI calendar data. -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#21
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dub408-m.hotmail.com not working
Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 13:50:53 -0500, VanguardLH wrote: Despite Microsoft making it look like users had to move from Hotmail to Outlook.com, that was not true. At some point, Microsoft may drop the Hotmail.com and Live.com domains for e-mail accounts. If that happens, and assuming they ample time for a warning (they didn't for the downgrade on Skydrive disk space), I'll move my e-mails from Hotmail.com to Outlook.com and go on with Outlook.com after they kill Hotmail.com. However, I was NOT forced by Microsoft to move away from Hotmail.com. Users just thought that was what they had to do and I'm pretty sure that back then that Microsoft deliberately misled them to that conclusion. Just curious as to why you wanted a Microsoft account rather than one of the many other choices available. I did trial other e-mail providers, some I liked and others that got immediately dumped. While IMAP is okay, no e-mail clients yet support the BURL command to make IMAP faster. Some IMAP providers are emulating BURL but that leads into behavior the user or client doesn't expect. I had my accounts using IMAP but I do like the faster response of EAS and you only get that with Microsoft accounts. Yes, I could've installed the Outlook Connector add-on but I never cared for that add-on. My recollection is that it remained flaky throughout all its versions. I could've stayed with my ISP's e-mail service. I had the Hotmail accounts for many years so I kept them alive but used my ISP's e-mail services. Yet they decided to farm out the service (part of it) to Zimbra who is god awful slow in fixing problems or adding features found already for many years in other e-mail services. IMAP service at my ISP was painfully slow. Not all IMAP servers are created equal. Some are pretty slow. Besides the accounts that I mentioned at Microsoft, I have an account at Yahoo Mail and at Gmail. The Gmail exists because it is used as a collector account: it keeps alive my reserved accounts by logging into them (so I only have to log into my Gmail account to keep it alive). It is also incorporate to the Google Voice service that I use. The Yahoo Mail account exists solely because it is one of a very few free e-mail providers that permit the "#" in the username (left token) of an e-mail address. This is required for using the Spamgourment aliasing service (so I'm not divulging true e-mail addresses to unknown or untrusted senders). When an e-mail goes through a Spamgourmet alias, the From header is modified to show both the sender along with the alias through which their e-mail was sent. Spamgourmet uses the "#" to separate those in the left token. They could use another character or even use positional parsing but they refuse to change. I've had a long discussion with them in their forum. So I need to use an e-mail provider that accepts "#" in the left token. My ISP did not for a long time until I reported it and after around 4 months they changed their parser to accept "#" in the left token. Alas, I've run into moving to another residence and losing my account so I lose those old e-mail addresses hence why I now use non-ISP e-mail accounts which continue to exist regardless of what ISP that I happen to be using at the time. Hotmail/Live/Outlook.com will puke if you try to reply to an e-mail where the left token has the "#" character. So I cannot use Microsoft e-mail services with the free Spamgourmet aliasing service. Yahoo to the rescue. So I have accounts in various places depending on why I need them or features they have. I don't have e-mail accounts at places where their servers were found to be slow, I didn't like something about their service or features, they had low "demo" quotas on how many messages I could send or how big could be received e-mails, and so on. I've trialed Inbox, GMX, and who knows what else. I happened on Hotmail because I had an old account there. I use Yahoo to let me use Spamgourmet with it. I use Gmail because of Google Voice and its polling of my reserved accounts. I used to have LOTS of reserved accounts with my various usernames but in the last year dropped all of them except the ones at Microsoft. Need to know any more of my e-mail history? |
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