Here you go, Apple lovers! Eat this!

John Hasler wrote:
Andy Burns writes:
I'm not clear why an oscillator would be "open" to the atmosphere,
whereas a barometer would need to be.

They weren't open. They were sealed, and most likely contained either a
vacuum or a specific gas. However, helium diffuses through everything
at an astounding rate, and something about these particular parts made
them especially susceptible to small amounts of helium. It probably
changed the velocity of sound inside the device just enough to screw it
up. Other brands of oscillator might also have been affected but if
they merely shifted off frequency a bit no one would have noticed.

It's also possible that these oscillators didn't stop either, but
shifted frequency enough to cause the operating system to become alarmed
and/or confused.

They're passivated with polysilicon on top.
(There is mention of a 1000C annealing process.)
And a thin coating of polymer over that.

I was looking to see if it had a breather hole
for pressure equalization, but it doesn't appear to
have that.

The dimensions of the device mean not a lot of
material can be dedicated to a hermetic seal.

It's like a speck of pepper, and the internal part
might be the item at the bottom of this picture.

1.5 mm x 0.8 mm CSP
0.6 mm max height
0.3mm ball diameter (four electrical contacts)

https://m.eet.com/images/eetimes/201...ime_MEMS_1.png

Paul

Paul wrote:

John Hasler wrote:

Andy Burns writes:

I'm not clear why an oscillator would be "open" to the atmosphere

They were sealed, and most likely contained either a
vacuum or a specific gas.Â* However, helium diffuses through everything
at an astounding rate

They're passivated with polysilicon on top.
(There is mention of a 1000C annealing process.)
And a thin coating of polymer over that.

Anyone would think crystal oscillators were hard to make :-P

https://youtu.be/b--FKHCFjOM

Andy Burns wrote:
Paul wrote:

John Hasler wrote:

Andy Burns writes:

I'm not clear why an oscillator would be "open" to the atmosphere

They were sealed, and most likely contained either a
vacuum or a specific gas. However, helium diffuses through everything
at an astounding rate

They're passivated with polysilicon on top.
(There is mention of a 1000C annealing process.)
And a thin coating of polymer over that.

Anyone would think crystal oscillators were hard to make :-P

https://youtu.be/b--FKHCFjOM

But are they really certain the frequency is correct ?

Maybe they should check it one... more... time... :-)

*******

And that was like, an elfen safety horror movie.
Did you spot all the naughty things they did ?

Doing Xray diffraction/crystallography with a
fluoroscope ? Yikes. No pension benefits needed
for that person. Of course, they also used to have
shoe Xray machines in department stores. But this
was back in the era when they didn't know any better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe-fitting_fluoroscope

Paul

Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2018 09:30:13 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Paul
wrote:
there are seals for liquid incursion, so if you do drop it in the
toilet (which *is* surprisingly common), it will not fail.

there is no reason to seal a phone against helium.

Besides, its almost impossible. For practical purposes helium is the
ultimate leak-test fluid.

I very much doubt that any phone would survive being dropped in liquid He.

Paul writes:
They're passivated with polysilicon on top. (There is mention of a
1000C annealing process.) And a thin coating of polymer over that.

Helium would go right through that.

I was looking to see if it had a breather hole for pressure
equalization, but it doesn't appear to have that.

Neither necessary nor desireable.
--
John Hasler

Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

Andy Burns writes:
Anyone would think crystal oscillators were hard to make :-P

Quartz crystals are too big, and you can't simply scale them down.
--
John Hasler

Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

On 11/2/18 1:20 AM, Paul wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Paul wrote:

John Hasler wrote:

Andy Burns writes:

I'm not clear why an oscillator would be "open" to the atmosphere

They were sealed, and most likely contained either a
vacuum or a specific gas.Â* However, helium diffuses through everything
at an astounding rate

They're passivated with polysilicon on top.
(There is mention of a 1000C annealing process.)
And a thin coating of polymer over that.

Anyone would think crystal oscillators were hard to make :-P

https://youtu.be/b--FKHCFjOM

But are they really certain the frequency is correct ?

Maybe they should check it one... more... time... :-)

*******

And that was like, an elfen safety horror movie.
Did you spot all the naughty things they did ?

Doing Xray diffraction/crystallography with a
fluoroscope ? Yikes. No pension benefits needed
for that person. Of course, they also used to have
shoe Xray machines in department stores. But this
was back in the era when they didn't know any better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe-fitting_fluoroscope

Â*Â* Paul

Well I was too young in the 1940s to know that
wiggling my toes inside my new shoes was anything but
fun watching them on the fluoroscope. Some adult always
switched it off before I had seen enough.

bliss


--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

On 2018-11-02, Chris wrote:
Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2018 09:30:13 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Paul
wrote:
there are seals for liquid incursion, so if you do drop it in the
toilet (which *is* surprisingly common), it will not fail.

there is no reason to seal a phone against helium.

Besides, its almost impossible. For practical purposes helium is the
ultimate leak-test fluid.

I very much doubt that any phone would survive being dropped in liquid He.

A gas is also a fluid.

On 2018-11-02, Andy Burns wrote:
Paul wrote:

John Hasler wrote:

Andy Burns writes:

I'm not clear why an oscillator would be "open" to the atmosphere

They were sealed, and most likely contained either a
vacuum or a specific gas.Â* However, helium diffuses through everything
at an astounding rate

They're passivated with polysilicon on top.
(There is mention of a 1000C annealing process.)
And a thin coating of polymer over that.

Anyone would think crystal oscillators were hard to make :-P

They are hard to make very very small.


https://youtu.be/b--FKHCFjOM

On 02/11/2018 12:51, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 11/2/18 1:20 AM, Paul wrote:
But this
was back in the era when they didn't know any better.

Back in the days when they knew better ITYM

Current Elfin Safety on radiation is probably about 1000 times overcautious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe-fitting_fluoroscope

Â*Â*Â* Paul

Â*Â*Â*Â*Well I was too young in the 1940s to know that
wiggling my toes inside my new shoes was anything but
fun watching them on the fluoroscope.Â* Some adult always
switched it off before I had seen enough.


Indeed. I had a cat scan last month. Probably enough radiation to set
every alarm bell ringing in a nuclear power station.

Certainly more than a year living in Fukushima or Chernobyl exclusions
zones.

https://xkcd.com/radiation/



--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

On 02/11/2018 20:31, Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-11-02 15:47, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/11/2018 12:51, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 11/2/18 1:20 AM, Paul wrote:
But this
was back in the era when they didn't know any better.

Back in the days when they knew better ITYM

Current Elfin Safety on radiation is probably about 1000 times
overcautious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe-fitting_fluoroscope

Â*Â*Â* Paul

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Well I was too young in the 1940s to know that
wiggling my toes inside my new shoes was anything but
fun watching them on the fluoroscope.Â* Some adult always
switched it off before I had seen enough.


Indeed. I had a cat scan last month. Probably enough radiation to set
every alarm bell ringing in a nuclear power station.

Certainly more than a year living in Fukushima or Chernobyl exclusions
zones.

https://xkcd.com/radiation/

CAT machines use sensors, not film, hence don't require nearly as much
radiation as film needed. But I don't know how much less, sorry.


That link says how much they generate. more . TONS more. Because they
take a complete picture of your insides which is seconds of radiation.

10mSv says this article

https://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/inf...pg=safety-xray

Now if you look at Fukushima exclusion, that’s at around 2mSv/year

Well below background on e.g. Dartmoor UK (up to 10msV/yr) or indeed
Ramsar in Iran (up to 200msV/yr)

If I can find this out so too could you have done.



Best,



--
It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
Mark Twain

On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 08:42:27 -0000 (UTC), Chris
wrote:

Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2018 09:30:13 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Paul
wrote:
there are seals for liquid incursion, so if you do drop it in the
toilet (which *is* surprisingly common), it will not fail.

there is no reason to seal a phone against helium.

Besides, its almost impossible. For practical purposes helium is the
ultimate leak-test fluid.

I very much doubt that any phone would survive being dropped in liquid He.

I wasn't suggesting that! :-)

Many years ago I used to be involved in vacuum-insulated pressure
vessels - like a large thermos bottle. It's very difficult to get
absolutely leak-proof welds in steel and the way the vacuum jackets on
the vessels were tested was by filling them with helium gas. We would
then go round with sniffers looking for traces of leaks.

Hydrogen is the only thing better able to find leaks than helium.
Under the right circumstances, hydrogen can even permeate its way
through solid steel.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 10:06:47 +0100 (CET), Nomen Nescio
wrote:

In article
Nomen Nescio wrote:

After serious thinking John Hasler wrote :
Andy Burns writes:
I'm not clear why an oscillator would be "open" to the atmosphere,
whereas a barometer would need to be.

They weren't open. They were sealed, and most likely contained
either a vacuum or a specific gas. However, helium diffuses through
everything at an astounding rate, and something about these
particular parts made them especially susceptible to small amounts of
helium. It probably changed the velocity of sound inside the device
just enough to screw it up. Other brands of oscillator might also
have been affected but if they merely shifted off frequency a bit no
one would have noticed.

It's also possible that these oscillators didn't stop either, but
shifted frequency enough to cause the operating system to become
alarmed and/or confused.

I wonder how many Apple people have followed their bad oscillator
apps off a cliff so far?

This brings up an idea for a new hack. Get in front of a self
driving car and open up a helium bottle.

helium rises...

Helium plumbate?
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

William Unruh wrote:

Nomen Nescio wrote:

Why a Helium Leak Disabled Every iPhone in a Medical Facility
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/gye4aw/why-a-helium-leak-disabled-every-iphone-in-a-medical-facility

That is just silly. To change the velocity of sound (which is what the
chipmunk voice is due to) requires a substantial fraction of the air be
Helium.

Ben Kraznow's take is that it takes a 2% helium atmosphere to kill MEMS
devices ...

https://youtu.be/vvzWaVvB908