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  #46  
Old October 3rd 13, 01:29 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
mechanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,064
Default Classic Shell

On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 11:44:48 +0200, Alias wrote:

Do you know the difference between take and use? I *can't* take the
software. I can only use a *copy*.


People are throwing around the term 'theft' as if it means using
something you don't 'own'; in he the UK at least the definition of
'theft' includes the term 'with the intention of permanently
depriving...'; thus there is no theft involved in copying a software
item for one's own use.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ition-of-theft

In legal terms you are perfectly entitled to do anything not
prohibited by law; morals don't come into it.
Ads
  #47  
Old October 3rd 13, 01:43 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Alias[_71_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Classic Shell

On 10/3/2013 2:29 PM, mechanic wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 11:44:48 +0200, Alias wrote:

Do you know the difference between take and use? I *can't* take the
software. I can only use a *copy*.


People are throwing around the term 'theft' as if it means using
something you don't 'own'; in he the UK at least the definition of
'theft' includes the term 'with the intention of permanently
depriving...'; thus there is no theft involved in copying a software
item for one's own use.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ition-of-theft

In legal terms you are perfectly entitled to do anything not
prohibited by law; morals don't come into it.


+1

--
Alias

The only real problems are avarice, anger and stupidity.
  #48  
Old October 3rd 13, 01:48 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,817
Default Classic Shell

On 10/3/13 3:50 AM, Alias wrote:
On 10/3/2013 3:23 AM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 10/2/13 7:08 PM, Nil wrote:
On 02 Oct 2013, Alias wrote
in alt.comp.os.windows-8:

On 10/2/2013 8:15 PM, Nil wrote:
And that makes it all right?

No, but what in the world is all right today?

So, you admit that it's not right to take the man's software without
paying for it. Then why do you support that?

It's not in his pocket. I personally have no use for the program.
What I do can't be stolen.

You're avoiding the issue. You seem to support people taking software
that doesn't belong to them. Do you also support people taking things
from you that don't belong to them?


Doubt if you get a sensible answer. I asked him if he had anything he
wanted me to steal from him, all he did was ask if I was naive.






No, I asked have you been this naive all your life. Your being naive
wasn't in question.


You do not know me, or if I am naive. I know I'm honest, are you? But
we know you appear to be a thief.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 23.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.0.4
  #49  
Old October 3rd 13, 01:49 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Rodney Pont[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 229
Default Classic Shell

On Thu, 3 Oct 2013 13:29:46 +0100, mechanic wrote:

People are throwing around the term 'theft' as if it means using
something you don't 'own'; in he the UK at least the definition of
'theft' includes the term 'with the intention of permanently
depriving...'; thus there is no theft involved in copying a software
item for one's own use.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ition-of-theft


You are depriving the author of the bread and milk they would have
bought if you had paid for the software!

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail rpont (at) gmail (dot) com


  #50  
Old October 3rd 13, 01:54 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Alias[_71_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Classic Shell

On 10/3/2013 2:48 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 10/3/13 3:50 AM, Alias wrote:
On 10/3/2013 3:23 AM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 10/2/13 7:08 PM, Nil wrote:
On 02 Oct 2013, Alias wrote
in alt.comp.os.windows-8:

On 10/2/2013 8:15 PM, Nil wrote:
And that makes it all right?

No, but what in the world is all right today?

So, you admit that it's not right to take the man's software without
paying for it. Then why do you support that?

It's not in his pocket. I personally have no use for the program.
What I do can't be stolen.

You're avoiding the issue. You seem to support people taking software
that doesn't belong to them. Do you also support people taking things
from you that don't belong to them?

Doubt if you get a sensible answer. I asked him if he had anything he
wanted me to steal from him, all he did was ask if I was naive.






No, I asked have you been this naive all your life. Your being naive
wasn't in question.


You do not know me, or if I am naive.


I know you're being naive.

I know I'm honest, are you?


Really? You've never told a lie?

But
we know you appear to be a thief.


No, it's legal and not theft to use a copy of software, music or videos
where I live. I am not depriving the owners of their software. They
still have it and no one stole it from them. Can we add logic impaired
to your naivety?

--
Alias

The only real problems are avarice, anger and stupidity.
  #51  
Old October 3rd 13, 01:57 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,817
Default Classic Shell

On 10/3/13 6:29 AM, mechanic wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 11:44:48 +0200, Alias wrote:

Do you know the difference between take and use? I *can't* take the
software. I can only use a *copy*.


People are throwing around the term 'theft' as if it means using
something you don't 'own'; in he the UK at least the definition of
'theft' includes the term 'with the intention of permanently
depriving...'; thus there is no theft involved in copying a software
item for one's own use.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ition-of-theft


Are you not intentionally "permanently depriving" the author of Start8
the $4.99 USD when using a program without payment to the author? That
negates the stipulation of #2 under the Basic Definition of Theft.

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" is a commonly quoted
part of a dialogue in William Shakespeare's play Romeo and Juliet, in
which Juliet argues that the names of things do not matter, only what
things "are".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_rose...smell_as_sweet

Just because you aren't called a thief, legally, doesn't meant you
aren't one.


In legal terms you are perfectly entitled to do anything not
prohibited by law; morals don't come into it.


Morals are the basis for every law.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 23.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.0.4
  #52  
Old October 3rd 13, 01:57 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
JoeBro
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Classic Shell

Ken Springer wrote in news:l2jp24$fa7$2
@speranza.aioe.org:

No, I asked have you been this naive all your life. Your being naive
wasn't in question.


You do not know me, or if I am naive. I know I'm honest, are you? But
we know you appear to be a thief.


He appears to be a thief because he is a thief.


  #53  
Old October 3rd 13, 01:59 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,817
Default Classic Shell

On 10/3/13 6:29 AM, mechanic wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 11:44:48 +0200, Alias wrote:


snip

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ition-of-theft


That's a nice site, mechanic. I don't have the time to search, but it
would be nice if a similar site existed for the US.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 23.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.0.4
  #54  
Old October 3rd 13, 02:01 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,817
Default Classic Shell

On 10/3/13 6:54 AM, Alias wrote:
On 10/3/2013 2:48 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 10/3/13 3:50 AM, Alias wrote:
On 10/3/2013 3:23 AM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 10/2/13 7:08 PM, Nil wrote:
On 02 Oct 2013, Alias wrote
in alt.comp.os.windows-8:

On 10/2/2013 8:15 PM, Nil wrote:
And that makes it all right?

No, but what in the world is all right today?

So, you admit that it's not right to take the man's software without
paying for it. Then why do you support that?

It's not in his pocket. I personally have no use for the program.
What I do can't be stolen.

You're avoiding the issue. You seem to support people taking software
that doesn't belong to them. Do you also support people taking things
from you that don't belong to them?

Doubt if you get a sensible answer. I asked him if he had anything he
wanted me to steal from him, all he did was ask if I was naive.






No, I asked have you been this naive all your life. Your being naive
wasn't in question.


You do not know me, or if I am naive.


I know you're being naive.

I know I'm honest, are you?


Really? You've never told a lie?

But
we know you appear to be a thief.


No, it's legal and not theft to use a copy of software, music or videos
where I live. I am not depriving the owners of their software. They
still have it and no one stole it from them. Can we add logic impaired
to your naivety?


Then, under your belief's, plagiarism is also not theft. Correct?


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 23.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.0.4
  #55  
Old October 3rd 13, 02:02 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Alias[_71_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Classic Shell

On 10/3/2013 2:57 PM, JoeBro wrote:
Ken Springer wrote in news:l2jp24$fa7$2
@speranza.aioe.org:

No, I asked have you been this naive all your life. Your being naive
wasn't in question.


You do not know me, or if I am naive. I know I'm honest, are you? But
we know you appear to be a thief.


He appears to be a thief because he is a thief.



Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt wrong! Theft is a legal not a moral issue. Where I
live it is not theft. Ergo, I am not a thief.

--
Alias

The only real problems are avarice, anger and stupidity.
  #56  
Old October 3rd 13, 02:09 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Alias[_71_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Classic Shell

On 10/3/2013 2:49 PM, Rodney Pont wrote:
On Thu, 3 Oct 2013 13:29:46 +0100, mechanic wrote:

People are throwing around the term 'theft' as if it means using
something you don't 'own'; in he the UK at least the definition of
'theft' includes the term 'with the intention of permanently
depriving...'; thus there is no theft involved in copying a software
item for one's own use.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ition-of-theft


You are depriving the author of the bread and milk they would have
bought if you had paid for the software!


You're assuming the person who downloads the software can or would pay
for it. And you know what they say about the word "assume". In the
Start8 case you might have a point but you don't when it comes to
Microsoft, Sony, Warner, etc. Personally, even though I could get Start8
off the Bay, I would pay for it because I figure the guy needs the
money. Unfortunately for him, I have no use for it and Microsoft will
not steal from him or her but will put the software out of business when
8.1 becomes available. Are you going to bitch and moan about that?

--
Alias

The only real problems are avarice, anger and stupidity.
  #57  
Old October 3rd 13, 03:00 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Zaphod Beeblebrox
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 868
Default Classic Shell

On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 01:09:30 +0200, "Alias"
wrote in article l2i93f$2e7$1
@dont-email.me...

On 10/2/2013 7:27 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 19:14:36 +0200, "Alias"
wrote in article l2hka2$19r$1
@dont-email.me...

On 10/2/2013 6:23 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 10/2/13 10:06 AM, Alias wrote:
On 10/2/2013 5:49 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 10/2/13 8:51 AM, Alias wrote:
On 10/2/2013 4:12 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 08:00:38 -0600, "Ken Springer"
wrote in article l2h8u3$52r$1
@speranza.aioe.org...

On 10/2/13 5:00 AM, Ron wrote:
On 10/2/2013 3:42 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Ken Blake
writes
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 03:35:15 -0400, Ron
wrote:

On 8/26/2013 5:06 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 03:35:01 -0500, CRNG

wrote:

snip

As far as I'm concerned, $4.99 is close enough to free. I don't
mind
paying for it.

If you've found it for free, care to share?

snip pirate link

So, you believe in stealing?????

And for a measly $5 even.


Petty theft, a misdemeanor in the USA. Course, some countries like
Spain
have laws that if it's for personal use and not for profit, downloading
from The Pirate Bay is completely legal and not considered theft.
You do
know that this group can be accessed by folks not in the USA or do you?

I do, but taking something that doesn't belong to you is still theft, no
matter how small.



It's only theft if the law says it's theft. Ask MS and Apple what they
took from Xerox. Did they activate before using what they took?

Negative, sir. If you have morals, and live by them, it's theft. The
law just provides consequences acceptable to the majority of society.



Give me a ****ing break and get off your high moral horse. No one
steals, right? Not Wall Street, not the politicians, the oil companies,
the banks?


And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a big part of what is wrong with our
society today - "it's OK for me to steal since those folks did bad
things too! See, I'm entitled!"

Doesn't matter if the law provides you an exemption. Doesn't matter if
someone else is doing wrong. Doesn't matter if you can justify it to
yourself. It is still wrong.


And you're still on your high moral horse as if you were a bloody saint.
How does it feel to be morally perfect?


Never said I was morally perfect. I strive toward that high mark
however, yet I'm constantly aware of my failings. The difference,
apparently, is that I recognize them as failings.

--
Zaphod

"Yeah. Listen, I'm Zaphod Beeblebrox, my father was Zaphod Beeblebrox
the Second, my grandfather Zaphod Beeblebrox the Third..."

"What?"

"There was an accident with a contraceptive and a time machine. Now
concentrate!"
  #58  
Old October 3rd 13, 03:29 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Zaphod Beeblebrox
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 868
Default Classic Shell

On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 14:54:49 +0200, "Alias"
wrote in article l2jpf3$udd$1
@dont-email.me...

On 10/3/2013 2:48 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 10/3/13 3:50 AM, Alias wrote:
On 10/3/2013 3:23 AM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 10/2/13 7:08 PM, Nil wrote:
On 02 Oct 2013, Alias wrote
in alt.comp.os.windows-8:

On 10/2/2013 8:15 PM, Nil wrote:
And that makes it all right?

No, but what in the world is all right today?

So, you admit that it's not right to take the man's software without
paying for it. Then why do you support that?

It's not in his pocket. I personally have no use for the program.
What I do can't be stolen.

You're avoiding the issue. You seem to support people taking software
that doesn't belong to them. Do you also support people taking things
from you that don't belong to them?

Doubt if you get a sensible answer. I asked him if he had anything he
wanted me to steal from him, all he did was ask if I was naive.






No, I asked have you been this naive all your life. Your being naive
wasn't in question.


You do not know me, or if I am naive.


I know you're being naive.

I know I'm honest, are you?


Really? You've never told a lie?

But
we know you appear to be a thief.


No, it's legal and not theft to use a copy of software, music or videos
where I live. I am not depriving the owners of their software. They
still have it and no one stole it from them.


No, you are depriving them of the fruits of their labor - that is,
payment for the service they provided to you by writing the software,
performing the music, etc. In civilized countries, that is considered
theft.

--
Zaphod

If I had two heads like you, Zaphod,
I could have hours of fun banging them against a wall.
-Ford Prefect
  #59  
Old October 3rd 13, 03:52 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Alias[_71_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Classic Shell

On 10/3/2013 2:57 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
Morals are the basis for every law.


More naivety. Ever hear the expression, "if knew what went into making
sausage and laws, you'd have nothing to do with either one"?

Example: the law in the U.S. against the possession of pot, cocaine and
heroin were NOT enacted to protect the public's health. They were
enacted to make it easier to bust black people and Latinos.

Before that law, heroin and cocaine were available at any drug store and
even advertized in paper media. There was no real drug problem back then.

Preach to me about the morality involved in that law.

--
Alias

The only real problems are avarice, anger and stupidity.
  #60  
Old October 3rd 13, 03:54 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Alias[_71_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Classic Shell

On 10/3/2013 4:00 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 01:09:30 +0200, "Alias"
wrote in article l2i93f$2e7$1
@dont-email.me...

On 10/2/2013 7:27 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 19:14:36 +0200, "Alias"
wrote in article l2hka2$19r$1
@dont-email.me...

On 10/2/2013 6:23 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 10/2/13 10:06 AM, Alias wrote:
On 10/2/2013 5:49 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 10/2/13 8:51 AM, Alias wrote:
On 10/2/2013 4:12 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 08:00:38 -0600, "Ken Springer"
wrote in article l2h8u3$52r$1
@speranza.aioe.org...

On 10/2/13 5:00 AM, Ron wrote:
On 10/2/2013 3:42 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Ken Blake
writes
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 03:35:15 -0400, Ron
wrote:

On 8/26/2013 5:06 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 03:35:01 -0500, CRNG

wrote:

snip

As far as I'm concerned, $4.99 is close enough to free. I don't
mind
paying for it.

If you've found it for free, care to share?

snip pirate link

So, you believe in stealing?????

And for a measly $5 even.


Petty theft, a misdemeanor in the USA. Course, some countries like
Spain
have laws that if it's for personal use and not for profit, downloading
from The Pirate Bay is completely legal and not considered theft.
You do
know that this group can be accessed by folks not in the USA or do you?

I do, but taking something that doesn't belong to you is still theft, no
matter how small.



It's only theft if the law says it's theft. Ask MS and Apple what they
took from Xerox. Did they activate before using what they took?

Negative, sir. If you have morals, and live by them, it's theft. The
law just provides consequences acceptable to the majority of society.



Give me a ****ing break and get off your high moral horse. No one
steals, right? Not Wall Street, not the politicians, the oil companies,
the banks?

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a big part of what is wrong with our
society today - "it's OK for me to steal since those folks did bad
things too! See, I'm entitled!"

Doesn't matter if the law provides you an exemption. Doesn't matter if
someone else is doing wrong. Doesn't matter if you can justify it to
yourself. It is still wrong.


And you're still on your high moral horse as if you were a bloody saint.
How does it feel to be morally perfect?


Never said I was morally perfect.


Then don't throw stones.

I strive toward that high mark
however, yet I'm constantly aware of my failings. The difference,
apparently, is that I recognize them as failings.


If you hadn't eaten for a week, would you steal food?

--
Alias

The only real problems are avarice, anger and stupidity.
 




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