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#46
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
On Wed, 3 Jun 2015 14:58:32 +0000 (UTC), "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
wrote: Slimer wrote: Tell yourself that no matter whether Windows 10 ends up being the greatest OS in history or just another one, it'll always be better than Linux. Since you yourself can't make Linux work while millions of others have no problem at all, that's just your opinion. Nothing more. I'm not a Linux fan at all, but I completely agree with you. I don't use Linux and I don't use anything made by Apple, but that doesn't mean I make fun of them the way he does. |
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#47
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
Wolf K wrote:
On 2015-06-03 5:56 AM, Paul wrote: Char Jackson wrote: On Tue, 02 Jun 2015 21:59:15 -0400, Paul wrote: My test machine isn't updated to 10130, so I haven't tested any of it myself. I'm waiting for a slow ring update to show up. I like to separate the download step from the install step. If I need the test machine on short notice, I want it to be available, and not in the middle of something. Which is why I prefer the ISO method, if possible. I get to choose the maintenance window. I thought you were a VM kind of guy, so I'm surprised that you don't have at least a few of the builds in VMs. Upgrade one while working in another. I've been running Win10 Preview on real hardware rather than a VM. Paul Opinions, please. I'm contemplating "getting Windows 10" per tray icon. Wait. If you want to "see Win10 in all its glory", slap a hard drive in your test machine, and install Win10 Preview. I use a separate disk, so it cannot hurt anything. If you don't want to use the Preview (because of potential rough edges), wait two months after RTM delivery date, and then see what the considered opinion from people who took the plunge was. I expect what would happen to me, is I'd get the Microsoft Account step, it wouldn't let me move forward, and I'd be very angry. We just don't know at this point, how RTM will behave. And the Preview behavior, is not a guarantee of RTM behavior. Without a Microsoft Account, there's hardly a reason to get it. You must drink the Koolaid, to get the (perceived) value from it. Cloud computing. Cortana. Maybe even a Hololens someday (if you can afford it). All silly stuff you'll get bored with after five minutes. Paul |
#48
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
Win10 mandates the use of a Microsoft account and their cloud. Data saved from applications will default to being saved in the cloud rather than on local storage. Mandate, no. Optional, yes but only and optional for specific apps. Existing application software storage locations won't automatically default to the cloud (the code isn't present nor will Win10 override) -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#49
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
Mayayana wrote:
| 2. The only route to obtain a readiness for an existing system (device | and applications) is to install the app **and** Reserve Windows 10 | 3.The app provides the option to 'Cancel' any reservation | 4. The app can easily be removed by uninstalling the KB via Programs and | Features/View Installed Updates So the sleazy adware is required if one wants to get Win10, but it *can* be removed if one so desires. Are those supposed to be selling points for sleazy adware, *or* for Win10?! If one wishes to run a status check on a systems Win10's readiness, install the Get Windows 10 app and reserve. - No other route is in place to allow users to make an informed decision (now or in the future - it is include in the app). If you wish to tell people to not install the 'Get Windows 10 app' it and not have the option to determine system readiness regardless of whether they decide to move to Win10 for free or remain with the existing operating system and update at an increased cost later...feel free to provide that advice. Imo, your not doing anyone any favors. As noted before, for those who wish to move to Win10, your advice is useless. -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#50
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
Am 03.06.2015 um 23:09 schrieb . . .winston:
Mayayana wrote: | 2. The only route to obtain a readiness for an existing system (device | and applications) is to install the app **and** Reserve Windows 10 | 3.The app provides the option to 'Cancel' any reservation | 4. The app can easily be removed by uninstalling the KB via Programs and | Features/View Installed Updates So the sleazy adware is required if one wants to get Win10, but it *can* be removed if one so desires. Are those supposed to be selling points for sleazy adware, *or* for Win10?! If one wishes to run a status check on a systems Win10's readiness, install the Get Windows 10 app and reserve. - No other route is in place to allow users to make an informed decision (now or in the future - it is include in the app). If you wish to tell people to not install the 'Get Windows 10 app' it and not have the option to determine system readiness regardless of whether they decide to move to Win10 for free or remain with the existing operating system and update at an increased cost later...feel free to provide that advice. Imo, your not doing anyone any favors. As noted before, for those who wish to move to Win10, your advice is useless. Quite right. But ... What about people who are not sure if the advantages of moving to Win10 are really bigger than the problems if they move? |
#51
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
Am 03.06.2015 um 23:03 schrieb . . .winston:
Mike Tomlinson wrote: Win10 mandates the use of a Microsoft account and their cloud. Data saved from applications will default to being saved in the cloud rather than on local storage. Mandate, no. Optional, yes but only and optional for specific apps. Existing application software storage locations won't automatically default to the cloud (the code isn't present nor will Win10 override) Fine. Can you show me a proof of this statement? I have NDAs with several customers. If you're wrong, Win10 does default to the cloud and I don't notice it immediately or can't find a way out of the cloud, may I sue you? |
#52
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
En el artículo , . . .winston
escribió: Mandate, no. Optional, yes but only and optional for specific apps. True. But M$ will be pushing the Windows Store very hard, as this is where the profit lies (cf. Apple and the Apple Store, Android and the Play Store). Windows Store app developers will be very strongly encouraged to default to the cloud for data storage. -- (\_/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
#53
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
Jonas Klein wrote:
Am 03.06.2015 um 23:03 schrieb . . .winston: Mike Tomlinson wrote: Win10 mandates the use of a Microsoft account and their cloud. Data saved from applications will default to being saved in the cloud rather than on local storage. Mandate, no. Optional, yes but only and optional for specific apps. Existing application software storage locations won't automatically default to the cloud (the code isn't present nor will Win10 override) Fine. Can you show me a proof of this statement? I have NDAs with several customers. If you're wrong, Win10 does default to the cloud and I don't notice it immediately or can't find a way out of the cloud, may I sue you? You really want to attempt to sue a lawyer with bench experience as a judge ? What might be more appropriate before you worry about your own backside is what you think or expect to default to the cloud in Windows 10. Provide details then maybe your customers will have a chance of being supported properly. -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#54
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , . . .winston escribió: Mandate, no. Optional, yes but only and optional for specific apps. True. But M$ will be pushing the Windows Store very hard, as this is where the profit lies (cf. Apple and the Apple Store, Android and the Play Store). Windows Store app developers will be very strongly encouraged to default to the cloud for data storage. The Store is not an archiving location for saving locally created files to one's machine or the cloud. -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#55
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
En el artículo , . . .winston
escribió: Windows Store app developers will be very strongly encouraged to default to the cloud for data storage. The Store is not an archiving location for saving locally created files to one's machine or the cloud. Are you being deliberately dense? People developing apps for the Store will be "encouraged" to write their apps such that those apps store the data they generate in the cloud by default, rather than locally. Does that make more sense? -- (\_/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
#56
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
Jonas Klein wrote:
Am 03.06.2015 um 23:09 schrieb . . .winston: Mayayana wrote: | 2. The only route to obtain a readiness for an existing system (device | and applications) is to install the app **and** Reserve Windows 10 | 3.The app provides the option to 'Cancel' any reservation | 4. The app can easily be removed by uninstalling the KB via Programs and | Features/View Installed Updates So the sleazy adware is required if one wants to get Win10, but it *can* be removed if one so desires. Are those supposed to be selling points for sleazy adware, *or* for Win10?! If one wishes to run a status check on a systems Win10's readiness, install the Get Windows 10 app and reserve. - No other route is in place to allow users to make an informed decision (now or in the future - it is include in the app). If you wish to tell people to not install the 'Get Windows 10 app' it and not have the option to determine system readiness regardless of whether they decide to move to Win10 for free or remain with the existing operating system and update at an increased cost later...feel free to provide that advice. Imo, your not doing anyone any favors. As noted before, for those who wish to move to Win10, your advice is useless. Quite right. But ... What about people who are not sure if the advantages of moving to Win10 are really bigger than the problems if they move? A good reason (if using Win7SP1 or Win8.1) to install KB 3035583, Reserve Win10 which will run a system readiness check. Once they have that information available, they can then, and only then make a better informed decision...i.e. folks have to ensure their existing system doesn't create issues (software, driver, graphic, network adapter etc. issues) before even considering or pondering what possible advantages or disadvantages Win10 brings to the table. Imo, one should take a methodical approach to upgrading any o/s - have a backup plan for the existing, understand if the system current hardware and software set will or will not create issues, then and only then deal/learn what Win10 does or does not bring to the table. For many Win7Sp1 and Win8.1 users the transition will be seamless, for others (especially those on old XP era hardware upgraded to Win7) it will not. And don't rely on this group as the only source of information (the population opinions in newsgroups including here, while informative, is not the only source of knowledge and in many cases skewed toward user's own preferences based or real or perceived information). Everyone on Win7 and Win8.1 has a year to decide if upgrading to Win10 is in their best interest. One thing is certain in my mind, if shopping for a new system and desiring Windows 7 (Win7 Pro is all that is available), it would be wise to do that soon - MSFT will not hesitate to require the OEM pre-built PC companies under contract to discontinue selling pre-built systems with Windows 7 once Win10 goes RTM. Likewise, for the home builder the supply of stand-alone OEM full version software will also disappear - that pipeline will dry up fast - can't sell what can't be ordered. -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#57
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , . . .winston escribió: Windows Store app developers will be very strongly encouraged to default to the cloud for data storage. The Store is not an archiving location for saving locally created files to one's machine or the cloud. Are you being deliberately dense? People developing apps for the Store will be "encouraged" to write their apps such that those apps store the data they generate in the cloud by default, rather than locally. Does that make more sense? That makes a little more sense, but this (what you wrote) did not "Win10 mandates the use of a Microsoft account and their cloud. Data saved from applications will default to being saved in the cloud rather than on local storage." Additionally, not all apps written or developed can have direct access by default to a user's cloud storage (i.e. Account and/or OneDrive). Some apps may store data on the app makers 'cloud' - not necessarily MSFT or the User personal storage allotment. MSFT does need to make the Store a more profitable ecosystem...that, imo, is not going to happen until Windows 7 disappears in 2020. -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#58
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
| One thing is certain in my mind, if
| shopping for a new system and desiring Windows 7 (Win7 Pro is all that | is available), it would be wise to do that soon - MSFT will not hesitate | to require the OEM pre-built PC companies under contract to discontinue | selling pre-built systems with Windows 7 once Win10 goes RTM. Likewise, | for the home builder the supply of stand-alone OEM full version software | will also disappear - that pipeline will dry up fast - can't sell what | can't be ordered. | It might be better if you state facts rather than the half-baked FUD that's "certain in your mind". Here's Win7 Home for sale: http://www.buycheapsoftware.com/ms_p...tegory~186.asp OEM supply will dry up fast? Here's XP: http://www.buycheapsoftware.com/ms_p...tegory~231.asp That was the first place I looked. Microsoft sells millions of licenses up front to OEMs so that they can claim Windows is selling like hotcakes. It's very unlikely that MS is going to tell the likes of Dell that they can't sell off their stock. Though I suppose if Win10 fails badly enough they might buy back those disks. Some people may want Win10. Hopefully they know what they're getting into. I'm guessing the free upgrade deal is going to be extended, anyway. MS want people converted to a services device where they can be pummelled with targetted ads and sold various apps. While that business model is likely to fail, as it has with Windows phones and Metro, Microsoft is clearly going all out to make it happen. Offering a free upgrade to a new OS is unprecedented. Likely they either foresee a great deal of resistance and/or hope to more than make up the difference in services once people are using Win10. Either way, it won't make much sense to stop the free upgrades. In the meantime, Winston, I'd like to give you first dibs on a bridge I'm selling. You won't want to pass up this deal because I'll only be offering it for sale for a limited time. After that the price may go up. You can't afford not to buy this bridge, simply because I won't be selling any other bridge once I start selling this bridge! OK.... Got your credit card on hand?.... Whenever you're ready.... |
#59
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 02:41:07 -0400, ". . .winston" My replies are based on the purpose of the 'Get Windows 10' app deployed via KB 3035583. In case you haven't realized - installing or not installing the app has significance regardless of how it is interpreted as value-added, non-value added, marketing-ware, junk-ware, etc. 1. The app includes the replacement for the Upgrade Assistant (i.e. it replaces earlier versions). 2. The only route to obtain a readiness for an existing system (device and applications) is to install the app **and** Reserve Windows 10 3.The app provides the option to 'Cancel' any reservation 4. The app can easily be removed by uninstalling the KB via Programs and Features/View Installed Updates 5. Windows 7 OEM and Full version media *and* OEM Pre-built units will disappear from the marketplace(look for that to happen shortly or immediately after July 29, 2015) - Home is already gone, Pro will soon follow. So far, I see no significant value in the things you've listed above. There is no other route for folks who wish to move from Win7/8.1 to run a system readiness check. If you see no value, how would you counsel those people who do wish to move to Win10 when device and application issues may be present ? Do nothing and cry later ? There is nothing wrong with continued use of Win7 on an existing system, yet it makes sense to install the app and reserve Win10 and perform a readiness status (no matter what one decides to do in the next year). Thanks, that's a refreshing evolution of your previous position that Win 7 is a short term solution. ;-) For that population of Vista and XP users Win7 is a short term solution. You don't really believe that MSFT is going to allow the entire OEM market to continue to sell more than two versions (8.1 and 10)of Windows on pre-built machines. Home is already gone, Pro will follow. For those on Win7 without media two options are available assuming they have a valid product key (sticker, certificate, onboard) and activate license - Obtain the Win7 Media Creation tool (and hope it works for them g) - Upgrade to Win10 for free within the one year introductory period or later later at higher cost (either route provides a Win10 retail product key/license and the ability to obtain media for a clean reinstallation). Gabe Aul from MSFT made this formally publicly just recently https://twitter.com/GabeAul/status/605987336392810496 "Once you upgrade W10 w/ the free upgrade offer you will able to clean reinstall Windows 10 on same device any time" and also stated/clarified "Once you've upgraded to 10 on the machine the license will allow you to reinstall at no cost." As for making sense to install the app, it only makes sense for people who are still on the fence regarding Win 10. Besides, for a digital product that will initially be delivered via the Internet, the concept of "reserving" anything doesn't make sense. The 'reserving' issue is certainly a blow to how things use to be done and tampering with previous expectations (a downloadable Upgrade Assistant), but as noted above it is the only route to perform an existing system readiness check for devices and applications. I'd rather people have all the information available regardless of where they sit (want Win10, want it for free but wait till the dust settles, unsure [on the fence?], or willing to pay later) to make an informed decision. Other reasons. a. Imo, it's bad advice to listen to the proponents suggesting to not install KB 3035583 and not be able to perform that readiness check before making any decision on taking advantage of the free upgrade offer for Win7SP1/8.1. Fair enough, but I thought we were talking about people who have already decided. If you reread my posts on 6/1, I said (shown below in with the qp bracketing qp Reserving via the Get Windows 10 app places the user in a queue for downloading. KB 3035583 for me tagged as an optional update - requiring the user to check the box. After thinking about, I'm leaning toward it making sense for larger population. With an impact of about 1 billion devices...if some folks listened to others around here, that advice to ignore the Get Windows app installed with 3035583 and upgrading may ultimately fill MSFT's pocketbook with million$ after July 29, 2016 for Win10 and at the expense of those same users. /qp - the focus was always central to KB3035583, each and every reply thereafter was based on that KB since it provides the only route for a system readiness check. - Maybe it would help if you (or all of us) followed your own advice and disregarded Mayayana's seek and destroy digressive approach g b. There are just too many people running OEM Windows 7 (on capable-ready-for-Window 10) systems without media (no media, never created restore disks, followed advice to remove the OEM recovery partition to gain storage space, don't image o/s, etc.). Upgrading to Windows 10 provides these folks an ability to obtain a retail Windows 10 license and in the future the ability to obtain media (free or a very low nominal cost) for that Win10 license. Realistically speaking, I don't see how upgrading to a new OS version helps here. The people who are currently working without a safety net will be the very same people working without a safety net after the upgrade. Which aspect of human nature are you relying on when you suggest that people who upgrade will somehow change their behavior? Ah...the difference was already noted - Win10 will provide a retail license with the ability to obtain both media and retail product key for installation at no cost. What position would you rather be in (no media, never created restore disks, followed some boon-heads advice to wipe the recovery partition, etc.) or the ability to obviate the need to move from a prior o/s to a later. The routes necessary for the past were clearly confusing and complex (install older o/s, upgrade this, then that...if needed to do again later, repeat the process) c. One year goes by fast and the sooner the better to determine the path to follow - stay with Win7, Win10 for free or a much higher penalty at a later time. For me, the decision was rather obvious and easy. Win 8.x was a big step backwards from Win 7, which itself was a small step backwards from XP, for the way I use the OS. I've checked out a couple of Win 10 TP's and I don't see any effort toward reversing the previous damage. By the way, you left out the option to stay with 8.x, above. That's a valid point - stay with 8.x (8.1 more specifically, one can't really stay with 8.0, it stops being supported in Jan 2016). If folks like 8.1 (there are some pieces that warrant keeping 8.1, one that comes to immediate mind is Media Center which won't be available in Win10). Even with 8.1 it still makes sense to at least perform that readiness check, though remaining on 8.1 should at the minimum use the Media Creation tool to create the free installation media - just have to be careful on how the media is used for reinstalls - run from within, no product key; clean install - product key required but only 8.0 or 8.1 but not 7 even if upgraded from 7 to 8.0 then 8.1...move to 10 eliminates that step o/s approach from 7 to 8.1. What will I do on my two primary systems recognizing that not everyone is as fortunate or in a similar position. A. Win7 Sp1 - not upgrade even though it surpasses all Win10 requirements and reports zero (0) issues for devices and apps. This i7-4470, Asus Z87, UEFI, 1TB/2TB Sata 6, 16GB Ram unit is only two years old, but I will take advantage of upgrading from the UEFI F8 bootable Win10 Preview on the 2TB drive (either free or clean install when media is available) "not upgrade" or "will take advantage of upgrading"? For your comments on A and B - Win7 and Win10TP are on separate bootable drives (but not dual boot, boot is by selection from the UEFI Bios option to boot the selected drive)...thus Win7SP1 remains as is and W10TP is upgraded to Win10RTM. B. Windows 8.1 Update - will upgrade to 10 on the i3-EFI-1TB Sata3-8GB Ram laptop with zero, 0, readiness issues for devices and app - a no brainer (4 yr old unit was originally Win7Sp1 Home, upgraded $40 to Win8.0 Pro, then free to 8.1 Update, free again to 10. If I get 2 more years out of Win10 for my original laptop price of $359...that's $399 money well spent regardless if it dies or is restored to factory for donation. The question of whether to upgrade an existing OS should rarely be a no brainer. In your case, you obviously see a significant benefit to upgrading, hence your comment about it being a no brainer. I currently fail to see such a benefit, so my decision went the other way. I don't really see any benefit to keep 8.1 once 10 arrives on a 4 yr old machine capable of 8.1. That 8.1 was 8.0 at one time. If MSFT is willing to give me a free 10 license and the ability to reinstall via media at no cost for the life of that device - it makes sense especially since 10 and 8.1 won't be that much different for my usage pattern and needs on that i3 laptop- from what I know now and what I know but can't state at this time. This was never about being an MVP - it's all about providing information to make a value-added decision. I honestly can't tell most of the time. Your logic is frequently seriously flawed, especially on this topic, so I'm keeping you at a distance on this one. :-) Feel free to do whatever you wish...but I suspect in time, you'll be eventually be running Win10 or Win 10.x+1....and maybe before the free year runs up, if later then at some increased cost (hardware and possibly software). -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#60
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Why would I want to pre "register" Windows 10 anyway?
Mayayana wrote:
Microsoft sells millions of licenses up front to OEMs so that they can claim Windows is selling like hotcakes. It's very unlikely that MS is going to tell the likes of Dell that they can't sell off their stock. Though I suppose if Win10 fails badly enough they might buy back those disks. Bet on that exactly happening. Look for the major retailers to start unloading Win7 at pricing discounted. Win7 will disappear from those retailers pre-built machines. Distribution from MSFT product pipeline for OEM versions has already started...likewise that inventory will diminish and rapidly once 10 hits RTM. Some people may want Win10. Hopefully they know what they're getting into. I'm guessing the free upgrade deal is going to be extended, anyway. MS want people converted to a services device where they can be pummelled with targetted ads and sold various apps. While that business model is likely to fail, as it has with Windows phones and Metro, Microsoft is clearly going all out to make it happen. Offering a free upgrade to a new OS is unprecedented. Likely they either foresee a great deal of resistance and/or hope to more than make up the difference in services once people are using Win10. Either way, it won't make much sense to stop the free upgrades. Doubtful, Win 8.0 Pro's intro offer for $40 lasted for a few months. MSFT learned a lesson on that -should have been extended longer. W10 offer will expire on time. Why ? The OEM's who sell Win10 on pre-built units have the largest consumer and SMB voice in the market to protect their own OEM sales/revenue interest. A year is more than enough to replace XP and Vista units with new, some Win7 with new etc, and reduce the need for OEM's to technically provide support for Win7 (no OEM pre-built sales, no new support needed) -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
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