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Sound to an extrnal DAC keeps cutting out.



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 25th 18, 06:01 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 911
Default Sound to an extrnal DAC keeps cutting out.

I have a peculiar problem on my computer.

I have recently installed DAC (Roland Duo-Capture EX) which so far I
have only used to play music from my computer to my hi-fi system. It
seems to work OK on iTunes but Spotify will only play for a short time
and then cut out. I can restart it by powering off the DAC and then
turning it on again. Unfortunately this is not very helpful as soon
after the sound will cut off once again. Each time I try it runs for a
shorter time before it cuts out. After several tries it will be down
to running fo 3 to 5 seconds before it cuts out.

I thought that there was no problem with general sounds from the
computer, You Tube etc but the other day that sound cut out after
about 6 hours.

I have various theories about what migt be hapening but I don't know
enough of what is going on inside the system to be sure of any of
them.

1. It could be the DAC not liking the Spotify sound stream.

2. It could be the driver not liking the Spotify sound stream.

3. It could be something to do with the fact that I am using a 10m
USB2 (powered) extension cable.

4. I am presently using a front panel USB socket which I suspect runs
from an internal hub. This could be a problem.

5. The manual refers to the setting within Windows of the 'Monitor
Function Setting". There is such a thing within earlier versions of
Windows but it it doesn't appear to exist in W10.

My System comprises:

Windows 10 Home X64
Asus All motherboard
Intel Core i7-6800K
32 MB Ram
Drive C: 510 GB Samsung 950 SSD
Drive D: 2 TB HDD
Realtek High Definition Audio
NVIDIA High Definition Audio

I would be grateful for any suggestions as to what is going on.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
Ads
  #2  
Old April 25th 18, 07:10 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Sound to an extrnal DAC keeps cutting out.

Eric Stevens wrote:
I have a peculiar problem on my computer.

I have recently installed DAC (Roland Duo-Capture EX) which so far I
have only used to play music from my computer to my hi-fi system. It
seems to work OK on iTunes but Spotify will only play for a short time
and then cut out. I can restart it by powering off the DAC and then
turning it on again. Unfortunately this is not very helpful as soon
after the sound will cut off once again. Each time I try it runs for a
shorter time before it cuts out. After several tries it will be down
to running fo 3 to 5 seconds before it cuts out.

I thought that there was no problem with general sounds from the
computer, You Tube etc but the other day that sound cut out after
about 6 hours.

I have various theories about what migt be hapening but I don't know
enough of what is going on inside the system to be sure of any of
them.

1. It could be the DAC not liking the Spotify sound stream.

2. It could be the driver not liking the Spotify sound stream.

3. It could be something to do with the fact that I am using a 10m
USB2 (powered) extension cable.

4. I am presently using a front panel USB socket which I suspect runs
from an internal hub. This could be a problem.

5. The manual refers to the setting within Windows of the 'Monitor
Function Setting". There is such a thing within earlier versions of
Windows but it it doesn't appear to exist in W10.

My System comprises:

Windows 10 Home X64
Asus All motherboard
Intel Core i7-6800K
32 MB Ram
Drive C: 510 GB Samsung 950 SSD
Drive D: 2 TB HDD
Realtek High Definition Audio
NVIDIA High Definition Audio

I would be grateful for any suggestions as to what is going on.


Check Device Manager and the Properties tab for the USB device.

It could be some lunatic designer set it up to offer "power savings"
by turning off the power when not in usage. And a DAC doesn't
have to consume a lot of power.

Maybe even an active USB extension cable (with one port hub inside)
could be offering a power savings option.

In the thread here, they call it "USB selective suspend" of the
Power control panel. That might be a global setting for it.

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6066093

If your device is using ASIO, that will add an additional
variable. Microsoft might write a vanilla generic two-channel
USB audio driver, which they would "own" as a Class driver.
An ASIO driver would be owned by the hardware company,
and have its own quirks. ASIO gives low latency and is
useful for audio workstations (versus regular "run a
pair of speakers" purposes). One way they might reduce
latency, is to bypass the windows sound mixer.

Paul
  #3  
Old April 25th 18, 08:53 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Andy Burns[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,318
Default Sound to an extrnal DAC keeps cutting out.

Eric Stevens wrote:

Spotify will only play for a short time and then cut out. I can
restart it by powering off the DAC and then turning it on again.

Have you tried different playback bit depths and bit rates?

  #4  
Old April 25th 18, 10:38 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 911
Default Sound to an extrnal DAC keeps cutting out.

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 02:10:42 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Eric Stevens wrote:
I have a peculiar problem on my computer.

I have recently installed DAC (Roland Duo-Capture EX) which so far I
have only used to play music from my computer to my hi-fi system. It
seems to work OK on iTunes but Spotify will only play for a short time
and then cut out. I can restart it by powering off the DAC and then
turning it on again. Unfortunately this is not very helpful as soon
after the sound will cut off once again. Each time I try it runs for a
shorter time before it cuts out. After several tries it will be down
to running fo 3 to 5 seconds before it cuts out.

I thought that there was no problem with general sounds from the
computer, You Tube etc but the other day that sound cut out after
about 6 hours.

I have various theories about what migt be hapening but I don't know
enough of what is going on inside the system to be sure of any of
them.

1. It could be the DAC not liking the Spotify sound stream.

2. It could be the driver not liking the Spotify sound stream.

3. It could be something to do with the fact that I am using a 10m
USB2 (powered) extension cable.

4. I am presently using a front panel USB socket which I suspect runs
from an internal hub. This could be a problem.

5. The manual refers to the setting within Windows of the 'Monitor
Function Setting". There is such a thing within earlier versions of
Windows but it it doesn't appear to exist in W10.

My System comprises:

Windows 10 Home X64
Asus All motherboard
Intel Core i7-6800K
32 MB Ram
Drive C: 510 GB Samsung 950 SSD
Drive D: 2 TB HDD
Realtek High Definition Audio
NVIDIA High Definition Audio

I would be grateful for any suggestions as to what is going on.


Check Device Manager and the Properties tab for the USB device.

It could be some lunatic designer set it up to offer "power savings"
by turning off the power when not in usage. And a DAC doesn't
have to consume a lot of power.


With one exception, all 15 USB hubs are set to allow the computer to
save power when not in use.

Maybe even an active USB extension cable (with one port hub inside)
could be offering a power savings option.

In the thread here, they call it "USB selective suspend" of the
Power control panel. That might be a global setting for it.


I've had a quick look "USB selective suspend" and like so many things
in W10 it seems to be buried under something else with another name.

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6066093

If your device is using ASIO, that will add an additional
variable. Microsoft might write a vanilla generic two-channel
USB audio driver, which they would "own" as a Class driver.
An ASIO driver would be owned by the hardware company,
and have its own quirks. ASIO gives low latency and is
useful for audio workstations (versus regular "run a
pair of speakers" purposes). One way they might reduce
latency, is to bypass the windows sound mixer.

I don't think I have an ASIO device and would my machine be using it
if my computer is sending a bit stream straight down a USB cable to a
DAC?

I will do some more exploring tomorrow.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #5  
Old April 25th 18, 10:46 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Sound to an extrnal DAC keeps cutting out.

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

With one exception, all 15 USB hubs are set to allow the computer to
save power when not in use.


*fifteen* usb hubs????
  #6  
Old April 25th 18, 12:59 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 832
Default Sound to an extrnal DAC keeps cutting out.

Eric Stevens wrote:
I have a peculiar problem on my computer.

I have recently installed DAC (Roland Duo-Capture EX) which so far I
have only used to play music from my computer to my hi-fi system. It
seems to work OK on iTunes but Spotify will only play for a short time
and then cut out. I can restart it by powering off the DAC and then
turning it on again. Unfortunately this is not very helpful as soon
after the sound will cut off once again. Each time I try it runs for a
shorter time before it cuts out. After several tries it will be down
to running fo 3 to 5 seconds before it cuts out.

I thought that there was no problem with general sounds from the
computer, You Tube etc but the other day that sound cut out after
about 6 hours.

I have various theories about what migt be hapening but I don't know
enough of what is going on inside the system to be sure of any of
them.

1. It could be the DAC not liking the Spotify sound stream.

2. It could be the driver not liking the Spotify sound stream.

3. It could be something to do with the fact that I am using a 10m
USB2 (powered) extension cable.


This would be my first suspect. Try a shorter cable or plug the DAC
directly into the pc.

4. I am presently using a front panel USB socket which I suspect runs
from an internal hub. This could be a problem.


Try one of the back USB ports, then. They're usually built into the
motherboard.

5. The manual refers to the setting within Windows of the 'Monitor
Function Setting". There is such a thing within earlier versions of
Windows but it it doesn't appear to exist in W10.

My System comprises:

Windows 10 Home X64
Asus All motherboard
Intel Core i7-6800K
32 MB Ram
Drive C: 510 GB Samsung 950 SSD
Drive D: 2 TB HDD
Realtek High Definition Audio
NVIDIA High Definition Audio

I would be grateful for any suggestions as to what is going on.


Does the motherboard have digital audio out buy any chance? Could you use
that instead of usb?


  #7  
Old April 25th 18, 01:53 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Sound to an extrnal DAC keeps cutting out.

nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

With one exception, all 15 USB hubs are set to allow the computer to
save power when not in use.


*fifteen* usb hubs????


Intel Core i7-6800K === A reliable place to start.

LGA2011-3 socket, few chipset choices as a result. Narrows field
to just one choice for PCH. It doesn't tell us, how many
additional USB3 chips the motherboard might have been given
though.

That gives X99 as a PCH.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_X99

"One Extensible Host Controller Interface (xHCI) controller
and two Enhanced Host Controller Interface (EHCI) controllers
are integrated into the X99 chipset, providing a total of up
to 14 USB ports. Out of those ports, up to six can be configured
as USB 3.0 ports with speeds of up to 5 Gbit/s per port,
while the remaining are USB 2.0 ports with speeds of up to
480 Mbit/s per port."

Modern Intel chipsets implement USB ports as "hubs", subtracting
from the max hubs a user can use externally (shortening the
reach externally possible with active 1-port hub cables). Maybe
things like USBTreeView would show the entries as hubs. Older
chipsets did runtime binding of USB1.1 or USB2 for a particular
port, to a logic block, and no hub was "burned" budget-wise.

The EHCI split here, means 60MB/sec is spread over 8 ports
on one controller, and 60MB/sec over the other 6 ports. And Intel
has some scheme where an ACPI table passes binding info to
identify how the ports got wired (for a mix of USB2
and USB3 ports). There's also mention of a debug port USB,
but that might not be wired on a production board.

(PDF page 202)

EHCI#1 - 8 ports EHCI#2 - 6 ports

XHCI - 6 ports of 5Gbit/sec each (combine 5 wire interfaces from this
portion with 6 of 14 ports of USB
4 wire interfaces, to make 9 wire
USB3 ports).

So yeah, lots of ports are possible. Many will appear
as headers on the motherboard surface, for future
expansion.

Since this is a FlexI/O PCH, you can also lose two USB3 ports,
if their wiring is instead used for PCI Express purposes (PDF page 105).

Paul
  #8  
Old April 25th 18, 02:17 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Sound to an extrnal DAC keeps cutting out.

Chris wrote:
Eric Stevens wrote:
I have a peculiar problem on my computer.
...
3. It could be something to do with the fact that I am using a 10m
USB2 (powered) extension cable.


This would be my first suspect. Try a shorter cable or plug the DAC
directly into the pc.


It would be a good idea to check the power
consumption spec for the DAC. It shouldn't
really use any more than a keyboard, but you
won't know until you check.

A less-than-100mA device should run OK on an
extension cable.

If you use USB config info, a typical trick
is to say "98mA", which means "less than 100mA but
we won't tell you how much less". There have also
been devices with a nominal 500mA rating (Alcatel
Frog Modem), where the measured current was 535mA and
that caused problems. The value listed in the Config
Space isn't really of much value, but it should be
indicating which power class the thing fits in.

A real power measurement, from the manufacturer,
is preferred. To remove any doubts.

I've run my webcam with the focus motor on the
end of a couple active extension cables, and I was shocked
that it worked with no visible signs of an issue.

Paul
  #9  
Old April 25th 18, 04:51 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Sound to an extrnal DAC keeps cutting out.

In article , a.m
wrote:


My System comprises:

Windows 10 Home X64
Asus All motherboard
Intel Core i7-6800K
32 MB Ram
Drive C: 510 GB Samsung 950 SSD
Drive D: 2 TB HDD
Realtek High Definition Audio
NVIDIA High Definition Audio

I would be grateful for any suggestions as to what is going on.


I assume that it has something to do with the fact that you only have
enough RAM to run a typical machine from 1997.


it's an obvious typo.
  #10  
Old April 25th 18, 04:52 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
David_B
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 92
Default Sound to an extrnal DAC keeps cutting out.

On 25-Apr-18 5:45 PM, a.m wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 17:01:31 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

My System comprises:

Windows 10 Home X64
Asus All motherboard
Intel Core i7-6800K
32 MB Ram
Drive C: 510 GB Samsung 950 SSD
Drive D: 2 TB HDD
Realtek High Definition Audio
NVIDIA High Definition Audio

I would be grateful for any suggestions as to what is going on.


I assume that it has something to do with the fact that you only have
enough RAM to run a typical machine from 1997.


Well spotted! ;-)

I suspect that Eric made a typing error and MEANT to say 32GB RAM

Regards,

David B.

  #11  
Old April 25th 18, 05:45 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
A.M
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 363
Default Sound to an extrnal DAC keeps cutting out.

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 17:01:31 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

My System comprises:

Windows 10 Home X64
Asus All motherboard
Intel Core i7-6800K
32 MB Ram
Drive C: 510 GB Samsung 950 SSD
Drive D: 2 TB HDD
Realtek High Definition Audio
NVIDIA High Definition Audio

I would be grateful for any suggestions as to what is going on.


I assume that it has something to do with the fact that you only have
enough RAM to run a typical machine from 1997.
  #12  
Old April 26th 18, 03:21 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 911
Default Sound to an extrnal DAC keeps cutting out.

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 05:46:13 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

With one exception, all 15 USB hubs are set to allow the computer to
save power when not in use.


*fifteen* usb hubs????


That's what's listed under Device Manager
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ddww1s5wp...ure-4.JPG?dl=0

I boggle.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #13  
Old April 26th 18, 09:31 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 911
Default Sound to an extrnal DAC keeps cutting out.

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 08:53:17 -0400, Paul
wrote:

nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

With one exception, all 15 USB hubs are set to allow the computer to
save power when not in use.


*fifteen* usb hubs????


Intel Core i7-6800K === A reliable place to start.

LGA2011-3 socket, few chipset choices as a result. Narrows field
to just one choice for PCH. It doesn't tell us, how many
additional USB3 chips the motherboard might have been given
though.

That gives X99 as a PCH.


Correct. The X99 chipset.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_X99

"One Extensible Host Controller Interface (xHCI) controller
and two Enhanced Host Controller Interface (EHCI) controllers
are integrated into the X99 chipset, providing a total of up
to 14 USB ports. Out of those ports, up to six can be configured
as USB 3.0 ports with speeds of up to 5 Gbit/s per port,
while the remaining are USB 2.0 ports with speeds of up to
480 Mbit/s per port."

Modern Intel chipsets implement USB ports as "hubs", subtracting
from the max hubs a user can use externally (shortening the
reach externally possible with active 1-port hub cables). Maybe
things like USBTreeView would show the entries as hubs. Older
chipsets did runtime binding of USB1.1 or USB2 for a particular
port, to a logic block, and no hub was "burned" budget-wise.

The EHCI split here, means 60MB/sec is spread over 8 ports
on one controller, and 60MB/sec over the other 6 ports. And Intel
has some scheme where an ACPI table passes binding info to
identify how the ports got wired (for a mix of USB2
and USB3 ports). There's also mention of a debug port USB,
but that might not be wired on a production board.

(PDF page 202)

EHCI#1 - 8 ports EHCI#2 - 6 ports

XHCI - 6 ports of 5Gbit/sec each (combine 5 wire interfaces from this
portion with 6 of 14 ports of USB
4 wire interfaces, to make 9 wire
USB3 ports).

So yeah, lots of ports are possible. Many will appear
as headers on the motherboard surface, for future
expansion.

Since this is a FlexI/O PCH, you can also lose two USB3 ports,
if their wiring is instead used for PCI Express purposes (PDF page 105).

Paul

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #14  
Old April 26th 18, 09:41 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 911
Default Sound to an extrnal DAC keeps cutting out.

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 09:17:01 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Chris wrote:
Eric Stevens wrote:
I have a peculiar problem on my computer.
...
3. It could be something to do with the fact that I am using a 10m
USB2 (powered) extension cable.


This would be my first suspect. Try a shorter cable or plug the DAC
directly into the pc.


It would be a good idea to check the power
consumption spec for the DAC. It shouldn't
really use any more than a keyboard, but you
won't know until you check.


I don't have that information, but the power consumption is miniscule.
It will run off a USB cable.

A less-than-100mA device should run OK on an
extension cable.

If you use USB config info, a typical trick
is to say "98mA", which means "less than 100mA but
we won't tell you how much less". There have also
been devices with a nominal 500mA rating (Alcatel
Frog Modem), where the measured current was 535mA and
that caused problems. The value listed in the Config
Space isn't really of much value, but it should be
indicating which power class the thing fits in.

A real power measurement, from the manufacturer,
is preferred. To remove any doubts.

I've run my webcam with the focus motor on the
end of a couple active extension cables, and I was shocked
that it worked with no visible signs of an issue.

As a trial, I have taken the active cable out of the equation. It has
run for several hours using 3 x USB2 2m cables in series on the
previously troublesome Spotify without any problems.

The only cables I could lay my hands on have blue LEDs inside their
connectors. These (obviously) stayed on and I wondered if the sum
total of four of these plus the DAC drew enough power to convince the
computer to keep the power on.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #15  
Old April 26th 18, 09:41 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 911
Default Sound to an extrnal DAC keeps cutting out.

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 11:51:56 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , a.m
wrote:


My System comprises:

Windows 10 Home X64
Asus All motherboard
Intel Core i7-6800K
32 MB Ram
Drive C: 510 GB Samsung 950 SSD
Drive D: 2 TB HDD
Realtek High Definition Audio
NVIDIA High Definition Audio

I would be grateful for any suggestions as to what is going on.


I assume that it has something to do with the fact that you only have
enough RAM to run a typical machine from 1997.


it's an obvious typo.


32 GB
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
 




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