Is there a database online for the number of shop hours a car repair should take?

I was told that there is a manual auto repair shops look up to find the
number of shop hours they charge for a job.

To be fair, I'm told they all charge that many hours even if it doesn't
take that many hours.

For example if three jobs are done, and even if they associate with each
other, they just add up the shop hours and then charge by the $200/hour
that the local shops all seem to charge for their shop rate.

Where can we car owners get that manual online?

Frank S wrote:
I was told that there is a manual auto repair shops look up to find the
number of shop hours they charge for a job.

To be fair, I'm told they all charge that many hours even if it doesn't
take that many hours.

For example if three jobs are done, and even if they associate with each
other, they just add up the shop hours and then charge by the $200/hour
that the local shops all seem to charge for their shop rate.

Where can we car owners get that manual online?


You might try:
http://www.napaautocare.com/Estimato...r p_zc=72210#

On 12/10/2017 1:44 PM, Ken wrote:
Frank S wrote:
I was told that there is a manual auto repair shops look up to find the
number of shop hours they charge for a job.

To be fair, I'm told they all charge that many hours even if it doesn't
take that many hours.

For example if three jobs are done, and even if they associate with each
other, they just add up the shop hours and then charge by the $200/hour
that the local shops all seem to charge for their shop rate.

Where can we car owners get that manual online?


You might try:
http://www.napaautocare.com/Estimato...r p_zc=72210#


Try Chilton manuals
, Used to be our source waybackwhen.

Rene

On 10/12/2017 19:24, Frank S wrote:
I was told that there is a manual auto repair shops look up to find the
number of shop hours they charge for a job.

To be fair, I'm told they all charge that many hours even if it doesn't
take that many hours.

For example if three jobs are done, and even if they associate with each
other, they just add up the shop hours and then charge by the $200/hour
that the local shops all seem to charge for their shop rate.

Where can we car owners get that manual online?

You are a complete and utter idiot if you can't agree a price in
advance. They should tell you up front how much they'll charge you and
the work can only commence if you agree the quote.

Are you sure you are a windows users? You sound like Windows hater to
me. Linux is on the other channel where you can try it for your
trolling. Microsoft hasn't started distributing its own version of
Linux called Microsoft Linux.





--
With over 600 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

Frank S wrote:
I was told that there is a manual auto repair shops look up to find the
number of shop hours they charge for a job.

It's published by Chilton's. It costs money. You can probably find it
at your local library if you have a good public library with a good set
of Chilton's. If you ask nicely, your mechanic might let you look at it.

To be fair, I'm told they all charge that many hours even if it doesn't
take that many hours.

Not everybody does. Some do. And then there is that car with the rust
problem where every job takes twice as long as the book says.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article ,
says...

I was told that there is a manual auto repair shops look up to find the
number of shop hours they charge for a job.

To be fair, I'm told they all charge that many hours even if it doesn't
take that many hours.

For example if three jobs are done, and even if they associate with each
other, they just add up the shop hours and then charge by the $200/hour
that the local shops all seem to charge for their shop rate.

Where can we car owners get that manual online?

I'd be surprised if any such page exists that would/could remain valid
for entire country. Too much "local" pressures etc.

What I dislike about their fixed cost repair arrangements is that if it
doesn't take that long we are giving them money for nothing but if it
takes longer you can be damn sure it's tacked onto the bill. And Yes I'm
sure if there's three separate repairs that they charge you for three
hours yet it's done in two saves you nothing but does put money in their
pocket for nothing.

Next new car I buy will be partially determined by my negotiating legal
requirement by them about markup on parts (100% no way), cost of repair
and labor. they pay the mechanic approx. $25 Hr yet charges over $125
locally here. We are paying so management can drive a free car and owner
can generate equity in his company. neither of which makes the car any
better, e.g. last longer with fewer repairs required during it's
lifespan, for me.

Work at a dealer, you are not welcome in my house.

On 12/10/2017 5:17 PM, pjp wrote:
In article ,
says...

I was told that there is a manual auto repair shops look up to find the
number of shop hours they charge for a job.

To be fair, I'm told they all charge that many hours even if it doesn't
take that many hours.

For example if three jobs are done, and even if they associate with each
other, they just add up the shop hours and then charge by the $200/hour
that the local shops all seem to charge for their shop rate.

Where can we car owners get that manual online?

I'd be surprised if any such page exists that would/could remain valid
for entire country. Too much "local" pressures etc.

What I dislike about their fixed cost repair arrangements is that if it
doesn't take that long we are giving them money for nothing but if it
takes longer you can be damn sure it's tacked onto the bill. And Yes I'm
sure if there's three separate repairs that they charge you for three
hours yet it's done in two saves you nothing but does put money in their
pocket for nothing.

Next new car I buy will be partially determined by my negotiating legal
requirement by them about markup on parts (100% no way), cost of repair
and labor. they pay the mechanic approx. $25 Hr yet charges over $125
locally here. We are paying so management can drive a free car and owner
can generate equity in his company. neither of which makes the car any
better, e.g. last longer with fewer repairs required during it's
lifespan, for me.

Work at a dealer, you are not welcome in my house.


Besides the mechanic's pay rate, add in employer matching
taxes, fees, licenses, inspections, insurance, rent,
property tax, supplies, fixtures, advertising and so on.

Also, rate books show expected typical time for the job.
Your local shop multiplies that time estimate by their
billing rate, that is, Chilton's doesn't express a value for
dollars, just time.

You may well be overcharged sometimes, but mechanic's pay is
hardly the biggest part of shop expense.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 12/10/2017 6:17 PM, pjp wrote:
In article ,
says...

I was told that there is a manual auto repair shops look up to find the
number of shop hours they charge for a job.

To be fair, I'm told they all charge that many hours even if it doesn't
take that many hours.

For example if three jobs are done, and even if they associate with each
other, they just add up the shop hours and then charge by the $200/hour
that the local shops all seem to charge for their shop rate.

Where can we car owners get that manual online?

I'd be surprised if any such page exists that would/could remain valid
for entire country. Too much "local" pressures etc.

The Flat Rte manual gives time, not dollars so it is valid anywhere.
Most mechanics can beat the times, especially the second time they do
the job and yes, many shops pay that rate no matter how long it takes.



What I dislike about their fixed cost repair arrangements is that if it
doesn't take that long we are giving them money for nothing but if it
takes longer you can be damn sure it's tacked onto the bill. And Yes I'm
sure if there's three separate repairs that they charge you for three
hours yet it's done in two saves you nothing but does put money in their
pocket for nothing.

Correct in most cases. If replacing a timing belt there us usually an
add on for the water pump at the same time though.



Next new car I buy will be partially determined by my negotiating legal
requirement by them about markup on parts (100% no way), cost of repair
and labor. they pay the mechanic approx. $25 Hr yet charges over $125
locally here. We are paying so management can drive a free car and owner
can generate equity in his company. neither of which makes the car any
better, e.g. last longer with fewer repairs required during it's
lifespan, for me.

Good luck with that. A good mechanic is making more than $25. Sure the
dealer is making a nice profit but you have no clue what it costs to
operate a shop.

Work at a dealer, you are not welcome in my house.

I'd not want to spend time with anyone with your attitude anyway even
though I never worked for a dealer. Without the employees you'd not be
able to by a car and get it serviced yet you refuse to socialize with
the guy that washes the car or cleans the bathrooms.

On Sun, 10 Dec 2017 19:17:24 -0400, pjp
wrote:

In article ,
says...

I was told that there is a manual auto repair shops look up to find the
number of shop hours they charge for a job.

To be fair, I'm told they all charge that many hours even if it doesn't
take that many hours.

For example if three jobs are done, and even if they associate with each
other, they just add up the shop hours and then charge by the $200/hour
that the local shops all seem to charge for their shop rate.

Where can we car owners get that manual online?

I'd be surprised if any such page exists that would/could remain valid
for entire country. Too much "local" pressures etc.

What I dislike about their fixed cost repair arrangements is that if it
doesn't take that long we are giving them money for nothing but if it
takes longer you can be damn sure it's tacked onto the bill. And Yes I'm
sure if there's three separate repairs that they charge you for three
hours yet it's done in two saves you nothing but does put money in their
pocket for nothing.

Pure "flat rate" you get paid the labout units in the book - period.
You wiun some, you lose some. A good mechanic, over-all, wins more
than he loses.

Next new car I buy will be partially determined by my negotiating legal
requirement by them about markup on parts (100% no way), cost of repair
and labor. they pay the mechanic approx. $25 Hr yet charges over $125
locally here

You are paying the property taxes, the heat, the administration
staff, the wear and tear on the hoists and compressors, and a "fair
return on investment".

SOMETIMES the return on investment is a bit excessive - but you can't
run a shop on a 100% markup on labour. Might work where you can work
outsideall year, possibly under a sun-shade, with no heat, AC, etc. -
but not many places like that exist. OVERHEAD on an equipped shop is
HIGH.

. We are paying so management can drive a free car and owner
can generate equity in his company. neither of which makes the car any
better, e.g. last longer with fewer repairs required during it's
lifespan, for me.

Work at a dealer, you are not welcome in my house.


That's too bad - because the guy whopworks at a dealership can be a
good friend to have.

On Sun, 10 Dec 2017 18:20:03 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/10/2017 5:17 PM, pjp wrote:
In article ,
says...

I was told that there is a manual auto repair shops look up to find the
number of shop hours they charge for a job.

To be fair, I'm told they all charge that many hours even if it doesn't
take that many hours.

For example if three jobs are done, and even if they associate with each
other, they just add up the shop hours and then charge by the $200/hour
that the local shops all seem to charge for their shop rate.

Where can we car owners get that manual online?

I'd be surprised if any such page exists that would/could remain valid
for entire country. Too much "local" pressures etc.

What I dislike about their fixed cost repair arrangements is that if it
doesn't take that long we are giving them money for nothing but if it
takes longer you can be damn sure it's tacked onto the bill. And Yes I'm
sure if there's three separate repairs that they charge you for three
hours yet it's done in two saves you nothing but does put money in their
pocket for nothing.

Next new car I buy will be partially determined by my negotiating legal
requirement by them about markup on parts (100% no way), cost of repair
and labor. they pay the mechanic approx. $25 Hr yet charges over $125
locally here. We are paying so management can drive a free car and owner
can generate equity in his company. neither of which makes the car any
better, e.g. last longer with fewer repairs required during it's
lifespan, for me.

Work at a dealer, you are not welcome in my house.


Besides the mechanic's pay rate, add in employer matching
taxes, fees, licenses, inspections, insurance, rent,
property tax, supplies, fixtures, advertising and so on.

Also, rate books show expected typical time for the job.
Your local shop multiplies that time estimate by their
billing rate, that is, Chilton's doesn't express a value for
dollars, just time.

You may well be overcharged sometimes, but mechanic's pay is
hardly the biggest part of shop expense.


There is "chilton time" and there is "factory time".

Dealers use "factory time" for most late model vehicles - and factory
time is generally pretty scimpy compared to Chiltons (or Motors, or
whatever "aftermarket" flat rates exist.)

The independents charge "chilton time"

Also, the "book time" isn't tecninally "hours" - it is "labour units"
- which compare closely to the number of hours an experienced mechanic
with the proper tools will take tio do the job, A mechanic who has
done the job many times should ALWAYS be able to do the job in fewer
actual hours - while an apprentice or mechanic unfamilliar with the
job will take more time.

On Sun, 10 Dec 2017 19:46:33 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/10/2017 6:17 PM, pjp wrote:
In article ,
says...

I was told that there is a manual auto repair shops look up to find the
number of shop hours they charge for a job.

To be fair, I'm told they all charge that many hours even if it doesn't
take that many hours.

For example if three jobs are done, and even if they associate with each
other, they just add up the shop hours and then charge by the $200/hour
that the local shops all seem to charge for their shop rate.

Where can we car owners get that manual online?

I'd be surprised if any such page exists that would/could remain valid
for entire country. Too much "local" pressures etc.

The Flat Rte manual gives time, not dollars so it is valid anywhere.
Most mechanics can beat the times, especially the second time they do
the job and yes, many shops pay that rate no matter how long it takes.



What I dislike about their fixed cost repair arrangements is that if it
doesn't take that long we are giving them money for nothing but if it
takes longer you can be damn sure it's tacked onto the bill. And Yes I'm
sure if there's three separate repairs that they charge you for three
hours yet it's done in two saves you nothing but does put money in their
pocket for nothing.

Correct in most cases. If replacing a timing belt there us usually an
add on for the water pump at the same time though.


There is a time for a water pump, and there is a time for a timing
belt - and there is an "add-on" time for common combinations. You
might see 2.6 for a water pump. and 3.3 for a timing belt - with an
"add-on" to the timing belt of .3 for the water puimp - or possibly an
extra 1.0 because to replace the timing belkt does not require opening
the cooling system, while changing the water pump does. The numbers
will often be different for w or w/o AC, ot from automatic to standard
trtans because of complications involved with the different options.

SOME shops ARE crooks and bill the full time for the timing belt plus
the full time for the water pump. But then there are plumbers and
electricians that overcharge too - not to mention Lawyers and
accountants.


Next new car I buy will be partially determined by my negotiating legal
requirement by them about markup on parts (100% no way), cost of repair
and labor. they pay the mechanic approx. $25 Hr yet charges over $125
locally here. We are paying so management can drive a free car and owner
can generate equity in his company. neither of which makes the car any
better, e.g. last longer with fewer repairs required during it's
lifespan, for me.

Good luck with that. A good mechanic is making more than $25. Sure the
dealer is making a nice profit but you have no clue what it costs to
operate a shop.

Work at a dealer, you are not welcome in my house.

I'd not want to spend time with anyone with your attitude anyway even
though I never worked for a dealer. Without the employees you'd not be
able to by a car and get it serviced yet you refuse to socialize with
the guy that washes the car or cleans the bathrooms.

There are a lot of people I choose not to spend time with - but not
based on what they do for a living or who they work for...

On 12/10/17 5:20 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/10/2017 5:17 PM, pjp wrote:
In article ,
says...

I was told that there is a manual auto repair shops look up to find the
number of shop hours they charge for a job.

To be fair, I'm told they all charge that many hours even if it doesn't
take that many hours.

For example if three jobs are done, and even if they associate with each
other, they just add up the shop hours and then charge by the $200/hour
that the local shops all seem to charge for their shop rate.

Where can we car owners get that manual online?

I'd be surprised if any such page exists that would/could remain valid
for entire country. Too much "local" pressures etc.

What I dislike about their fixed cost repair arrangements is that if it
doesn't take that long we are giving them money for nothing but if it
takes longer you can be damn sure it's tacked onto the bill. And Yes I'm
sure if there's three separate repairs that they charge you for three
hours yet it's done in two saves you nothing but does put money in their
pocket for nothing.

Next new car I buy will be partially determined by my negotiating legal
requirement by them about markup on parts (100% no way), cost of repair
and labor. they pay the mechanic approx. $25 Hr yet charges over $125
locally here. We are paying so management can drive a free car and owner
can generate equity in his company. neither of which makes the car any
better, e.g. last longer with fewer repairs required during it's
lifespan, for me.

Work at a dealer, you are not welcome in my house.


Besides the mechanic's pay rate, add in employer matching
taxes, fees, licenses, inspections, insurance, rent,
property tax, supplies, fixtures, advertising and so on.

Environmental fees, IE vapor control, cleaning solvent replacement, shop
rags, all the other mandated regulations that must be followed.

The average person simply has no clue any more, since most never grew up
tinkering on cars in the back yard.

Also, rate books show expected typical time for the job.
Your local shop multiplies that time estimate by their
billing rate, that is, Chilton's doesn't express a value for
dollars, just time.

You may well be overcharged sometimes, but mechanic's pay is
hardly the biggest part of shop expense.



--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 53.0.2 (64 bit)
Thunderbird 52.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 11 Dec 2017 08:24:23 +1300, Frank S
wrote:

I was told that there is a manual auto repair shops look up to find the
number of shop hours they charge for a job.

Right.

To be fair, I'm told they all charge that many hours even if it doesn't
take that many hours.

That's what I've always heard. But why do you say "To be fair". Some
would say it's unfair.

For example if three jobs are done, and even if they associate with each
other, they just add up the shop hours and then charge by the $200/hour
that the local shops all seem to charge for their shop rate.

I hadn't heard that. That would be unfairer. Not sure how often in
practice differnt tasks require the same setup work. But if you had
two problems under the dash, they might well charge the price for each,
even though they only took the radio etc. out once.

Where can we car owners get that manual online?

It used to be called, at least informally, maybe formally, the Flat Rate
Manual.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 10 Dec 2017 19:17:24 -0400, pjp
wrote:

What I dislike about their fixed cost repair arrangements is that if it
doesn't take that long we are giving them money for nothing

I hate to bring up my blown engine again, but when I had my car towed
into the shop last summer, he charged me about $90 for diagnosing the
problem -- that's his standard rate -- even though I figure he knew what
the problem was in 1 minute, just based on the sound.

Maybe he did some other looking around. I don't know and he didnt' say.

So like someone here said, he wins some, he loses some. This time he
won.

So I'm not angry, but otoh, I did go somewhere else to get my next car's
safety inspection.

But I didnt' tell him I went somewhere else and now I feel like I'm
seeing two girls at the same time.

It certainly is the closest I've come in quite a while to seeing two
girls at the same time.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 10 Dec 2017 20:04:15 -0700, Ken Springer
wrote:


Besides the mechanic's pay rate, add in employer matching
taxes, fees, licenses, inspections, insurance, rent,
property tax, supplies, fixtures, advertising and so on.

Environmental fees, IE vapor control, cleaning solvent replacement, shop
rags, all the other mandated regulations that must be followed.

All that. It's not only auto shops that cost a lot to run.

The failure rate for all businesses is high, mostly because they take in
less money than they spend.

If owning a business were such a great deal, we'd all be doing it.

The average person simply has no clue any more, since most never grew up
tinkering on cars in the back yard.