Simple backup option non-techy person

A family friend wants to get herself a laptop to help get through
isolation. I can help with the choice of laptop, but what is a good,
effective and preferably cheap option for backups? She doesn't have
broadband (and is unlikely to get it anytime soon) so cloud options are
a non-starter. She will be using mobile data for her limited internet
needs (e.g. news and food shopping).

This person has never owned a computer before, is retired and used to
get her internet needs fulfilled by the local library. So it needs to be
as fire-and-forget as possible. I want her to get into good habits from
the start, but I'm not so familiar with range of options for Windows.

Any suggestions gratefully received.

On 30/04/2020 11:12, Chris wrote:

A family friend wants to get herself a laptop to help get through
isolation. I can help with the choice of laptop, but what is a good,
effective and preferably cheap option for backups? She doesn't have
broadband (and is unlikely to get it anytime soon) so cloud options are
a non-starter. She will be using mobile data for her limited internet
needs (e.g. news and food shopping).

This person has never owned a computer before, is retired and used to
get her internet needs fulfilled by the local library. So it needs to be
as fire-and-forget as possible. I want her to get into good habits from
the start, but I'm not so familiar with range of options for Windows.

Any suggestions gratefully received.

For example, how useable is the s/ware that comes with WD external
drives? I'm a strong believer in you get what you pay for, but is it
utter trash or will it do the job?

On 4/30/20 6:35 AM, this is what Chris wrote:
On 30/04/2020 11:12, Chris wrote:

A family friend wants to get herself a laptop to help get through isolation. I can help with the choice of laptop, but what is a good,
effective and preferably cheap option for backups? She doesn't have broadband (and is unlikely to get it anytime soon) so cloud options
are a non-starter. She will be using mobile data for her limited internet needs (e.g. news and food shopping).

This person has never owned a computer before, is retired and used to get her internet needs fulfilled by the local library. So it needs
to be as fire-and-forget as possible. I want her to get into good habits from the start, but I'm not so familiar with range of options for
Windows.

Any suggestions gratefully received.

For example, how useable is the s/ware that comes with WD external drives? I'm a strong believer in you get what you pay for, but is it
utter trash or will it do the job?

Macrium Reflect is free. Some people rely on it. A backup scheme can be made to backup the entire drive, either to a file (like zip does)
or clone (duplicate) the drive to an external drive.

She would HAVE TO plug in an external drive. I suggest a usb3.0 2.5" external drive. It would be powered by the usb and need no A/C
connections and is a simple plug and play.

Then all she'd have to do is plug it in, launch the pgm, tell it to go, wait, close program, eject the usb (icon in tray), unplug drive.

There are other programs like Acronis you have to buy, and some people love it. I use this but hell, who am I?

Oh, and both require a one time 'make bootable recovery disk'. Keep it safe.

Al.

"Chris" wrote

| A family friend wants to get herself a laptop to help get through
| isolation. I can help with the choice of laptop, but what is a good,
| effective and preferably cheap option for backups? She doesn't have
| broadband (and is unlikely to get it anytime soon) so cloud options are
| a non-starter. She will be using mobile data for her limited internet
| needs (e.g. news and food shopping).
|
| This person has never owned a computer before, is retired and used to
| get her internet needs fulfilled by the local library. So it needs to be
| as fire-and-forget as possible. I want her to get into good habits from
| the start, but I'm not so familiar with range of options for Windows.
|

No easy solution. I've seen many people whose
"tech support guy" just set them up with Aconite.
You pay a yearly fee and it uploads system changes.
I know you said no broadband, but there's not much
other option if people are not going to learn to fend
for themselves.

To my mind the next easiest would be to write
down the steps to reinstall the system from hidden
partition, then get in the habit of copying anything
they don't want to lose onto DVDs or sticks
periodically. As the saying goes, you should be able
to recover if you lose your computer tomorrow.

But people vary a lot. Of the friends and family I
try to help with tech, most don't actually store anything.
They call in a panic because they can't print their
air flight boarding pass, or because they want to get
to their email. Mainly it's just email. Those people don't
ned backup, except to write down their usernames,
passwords, and so on.

I use BootIt to partition and maintain disk images.
I back up changed data to DVD periodically and have
a system to make that simple. I also copy unchaging
data like photos, docs, software installers to sticks and
old hard disks.

The first thing I do with any computer is to clean
it up, make a disk image, then partition into data
partitions with a relatively small OS partition. But
that actually takes a fair amount of expertise. That's
why most disk imaging programs are not actually disk
imaging at all, but rather a gigantic, automated copy
of the entire C drive. It's Aconite on your own computer.
Not really worth the trouble for tech illiterates and a
useless kiddie solution if you're capable of actual disk
imaging.

On 4/30/2020 4:12 AM, between "Chris : All":

A family friend wants to get herself a laptop to help get through
isolation. I can help with the choice of laptop, but what is a good,
effective and preferably cheap option for backups? She doesn't have
broadband (and is unlikely to get it anytime soon) so cloud options
are
a non-starter. She will be using mobile data for her limited internet
needs (e.g. news and food shopping).

This person has never owned a computer before, is retired and used to
get her internet needs fulfilled by the local library. So it needs to
be
as fire-and-forget as possible. I want her to get into good habits
from
the start, but I'm not so familiar with range of options for Windows.

Why not use the Windows built-in option to "backup"? Just keep an
external drive connected to the new pc and configure the backup to
store data to that drive?

There is no urgency to impose a fresh new computer and user to a
complex backup regime.

If the pc is to be primary for www browsing, news online, shopping,
then what is critical to keep backing up? Use Gmail for mail and keep
everything there in the cloud. Even, many of the common things (like
word processing) should work well with the google online cloud
versions.



--
Daudz baltu dieniņu, Laimiņa dodi, Diženi raženi, Dzīvojoti!

Chris wrote:
A family friend wants to get herself a laptop to help get through
isolation.

If she doesn't have broadband and isn't going to be going online, what
is she planning on doing w/ this computer?

If she has a mobile plan and 4G/LTE connectivity, maybe she should get a
Chromebook w/ LTE instead of a conventional Win laptop.

I can help with the choice of laptop, but what is a good, effective
and preferably cheap option for backups? She doesn't have broadband
(and is unlikely to get it anytime soon) so cloud options are a
non-starter. She will be using mobile data for her limited internet
needs (e.g. news and food shopping).

This person has never owned a computer before, is retired and used to
get her internet needs fulfilled by the local library. So it needs to be
as fire-and-forget as possible. I want her to get into good habits from
the start, but I'm not so familiar with range of options for Windows.

In my experience w/ supporting people w/ Win, it is a LOT easier to not
have to support them if they use Chrome OS instead.

And she can b/u her Chromebook data w/ a USB3 stick.


--
Mike Easter

Chris wrote:

A family friend wants to get herself a laptop to help get through
isolation. I can help with the choice of laptop, but what is a good,
effective and preferably cheap option for backups? She doesn't have
broadband (and is unlikely to get it anytime soon) so cloud options are
a non-starter. She will be using mobile data for her limited internet
needs (e.g. news and food shopping).

This person has never owned a computer before, is retired and used to
get her internet needs fulfilled by the local library. So it needs to be
as fire-and-forget as possible. I want her to get into good habits from
the start, but I'm not so familiar with range of options for Windows.

Any suggestions gratefully received.

She could probably just use Windows' built-in File History backup.

File History will backup everything in the normal Windows 'Libraries',
i.e. Documents, Music, Pictures and Videos.

Anything outside these Libraries will *not* be backed up (unless
you/she takes extra precautions/steps).

Third-party software - and 'even' some Microsoft software - will store
their stuff in other places, so these will have to be reconfigured. A
notorious offender is Thunderbird, which stores its 'profile' - i.e.
also the user's email - outside the Libraries.

Of course - like most file backup software - File History will not
backup the system itself. So for system backup she will need something
else, such as Macrium Reflect which others also mentioned.

In any case, she should have a way to recover the system to the
factory setup. That is normally done by a recovery partition on the
disk-drive. As the disk-drive can go bad, she should have an image
(Macrium Reflect) backup of that partition and a bootable CD/USB-stick
to restore that image (assuming the laptop does not come with
installation media).

FWIW, I use the above setup - without a regular system backup - for
SWMBO's laptop. (For my own laptop, I use a much more elaborate backup
scheme.)

As to the device to backup to: You and others have mentioned a
portable USB HDD. That's probably the best option, but not very handy
(has to be connected/removed or left 'dangling' all the time). Another -
very convenient - option is a large capacity SD-card in the built-in
cardreader of the laptop. Such a card hardly sticks out, is reasonably
fast and probably more than sufficient for most people's storage needs,
especially a first time user such as your friend.

HTH.

On 4/30/2020 8:51 AM, Mayayana wrote:
"Chris" wrote

| A family friend wants to get herself a laptop to help get through
| isolation. I can help with the choice of laptop, but what is a good,
| effective and preferably cheap option for backups? She doesn't have
| broadband (and is unlikely to get it anytime soon) so cloud options are
| a non-starter. She will be using mobile data for her limited internet
| needs (e.g. news and food shopping).
|
| This person has never owned a computer before, is retired and used to
| get her internet needs fulfilled by the local library. So it needs to be
| as fire-and-forget as possible. I want her to get into good habits from
| the start, but I'm not so familiar with range of options for Windows.
|


I believe the easiest solution for the lady would be to buy an external
hard drive for backup. Could be a Thumb drive or solid state drive.

While she could use the native Widows back up program it is some what
difficultly to access for someone new to computers. Also it works best
when the external drive is always connected to the computer.

Because of this, I would recommend you put Syncback on her computer.

https://www.2brightsparks.com/downlo...cbackfree.html

If you want you could buy the commercial version but I have found the
free version is sufficient for my needs.

If you go this route, you should probably create a profile to back up
her Document Folder to the external drive. I would then place a short
cut on the desk top or toolbar to the Syncback program


Once this is done. All the lady would have to do to back up her
computer is to attach the external drive. Click the desktop Icon for
Syncback. and Double click the profile to run the back up. Finally
click Continue when the list of files comes up.


I use Syncback Free to sync the data on my laptop and desktop. Most of
the time it takes a couple minutes to do the backup procedure.

Chris wrote:
[...]

For example, how useable is the s/ware that comes with WD external
drives? I'm a strong believer in you get what you pay for, but is it
utter trash or will it do the job?

If that's WD's 'SmartWare' software, then it's by far the worst
backup software I've ever encountered! Akward, painstakingly slow,
crashing ... do I need to go on!? :-(

I am quite a bit of a fan of WD, especially their disk-drives, but
SmartWare is terrible.

Disclaimer: Looking at my notes, I probably haven't touched SmartWare
since 2014, so it *may* have been improved, but I strongly doubt it.

FWIW, I use Cobian Backup, but that is no candidate for a novice like
your friend (unless you set it up in a fire-and-forget way).

On 30 Apr 2020 14:22:33 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

This person has never owned a computer before, is retired and used to
get her internet needs fulfilled by the local library. So it needs to be
as fire-and-forget as possible. I want her to get into good habits from
the start, but I'm not so familiar with range of options for Windows.

Any suggestions gratefully received.

She could probably just use Windows' built-in File History backup.

File History will backup everything in the normal Windows 'Libraries',
i.e. Documents, Music, Pictures and Videos.

Anything outside these Libraries will *not* be backed up (unless
you/she takes extra precautions/steps).

Yes the latest (1909) version of Win10 file history backup is
superb. Easy to add other folders to the mix too. Although that may
not be suitable if the user can't work out which files to restore,
of course.

Chris wrote:

A family friend wants to get herself a laptop to help get through
isolation. I can help with the choice of laptop, but what is a good,
effective and preferably cheap option for backups? She doesn't have
broadband (and is unlikely to get it anytime soon) so cloud options are
a non-starter. She will be using mobile data for her limited internet
needs (e.g. news and food shopping).

This person has never owned a computer before, is retired and used to
get her internet needs fulfilled by the local library. So it needs to be
as fire-and-forget as possible. I want her to get into good habits from
the start, but I'm not so familiar with range of options for Windows.

Any suggestions gratefully received.

buy an external usb hard drive you back up the user profile

I use https://www.cobiansoft.com/ free

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Mike Easter wrote:
Chris wrote:
A family friend wants to get herself a laptop to help get through
isolation.

If she doesn't have broadband and isn't going to be going online, what
is she planning on doing w/ this computer?

If she has a mobile plan and 4G/LTE connectivity, maybe she should get a
Chromebook w/ LTE instead of a conventional Win laptop.

I can help with the choice of laptop, but what is a good, effective
and preferably cheap option for backups? She doesn't have broadband
(and is unlikely to get it anytime soon) so cloud options are a
non-starter. She will be using mobile data for her limited internet
needs (e.g. news and food shopping).

This person has never owned a computer before, is retired and used to
get her internet needs fulfilled by the local library. So it needs to be
as fire-and-forget as possible. I want her to get into good habits from
the start, but I'm not so familiar with range of options for Windows.

In my experience w/ supporting people w/ Win, it is a LOT easier to not
have to support them if they use Chrome OS instead.

I agree. I'm not looking forward to it.

And she can b/u her Chromebook data w/ a USB3 stick.

Doesn't a chromebook require always-on internet? We did discuss one, but I
discounted it due to internet usage.

Chris wrote:
Doesn't a chromebook require always-on internet? We did discuss one, but I
discounted it due to internet usage.

I have a chromebook and I almost always use it broadband wifi connected
and it doesn't have a SIM or plan, but...

I also use it offline and google continues to expand the offline
capabilities.

I used to take an old Win Vista laptop on trips, but I shifted to the
chromebook because it was smaller lighter and had MUCH longer legs in
terms of battery hours.

I could address how to use the chromebook w/o broadband if you would
answer the earllier qx to the best of your guesswork:

If she doesn't have broadband and isn't going to be going online, what is she planning on doing w/ this computer?



--
Mike Easter

On 4/30/20 4:12 AM, Chris wrote:

A family friend wants to get herself a laptop to help get through
isolation. I can help with the choice of laptop, but what is a good,
effective and preferably cheap option for backups? She doesn't have
broadband (and is unlikely to get it anytime soon) so cloud options are
a non-starter. She will be using mobile data for her limited internet
needs (e.g. news and food shopping).

This person has never owned a computer before, is retired and used to
get her internet needs fulfilled by the local library. So it needs to be
as fire-and-forget as possible. I want her to get into good habits from
the start, but I'm not so familiar with range of options for Windows.

Any suggestions gratefully received.
I work with seniors who simply don't know how things work, but manage to
get something done on their computers.

So, I take the perspective of how easy is it for the newbie to actually
use. Macrium Reflect is great, I actually own a copy and used it on my
W7 system. But, what newbie is going to understand grandfather, father,
son relationships? And who is going to get the call when things go south?

I embarked on a search for an easy to use system for newbies. I hoped
to find something as easy to use as Time Machine on my Mac. Nothing I
found for Windows even came close. :-( (The same is true for indexing,
far simpler on the Mac.)

It seems obvious to me, if the program is going to be easy for newbies
to use, it needs an easy to use and understand UI. The best programs
for meeting this primary need, IMO, comes from Genie9.

https://www.zoolz.com/genie9/

For the newbie with simple needs, my two choices were Timeline 10 and
Backup Manager. Based on the description of Timeline 10, I *think* they
want you to think it's as easy to use as Time Machiine, but it doesn't
come close. But the text in the UI is pretty simple compared to Macrium
Reflect.

I've tested Timeline 10 twice, and I discarded it. I don't remember why
I discarded it the first time, but the 2nd time (@3 months ago) the
computer went to sleep while creating a system image. (The call it
Disaster Recovery.). I find that unacceptable, but if it's fixed, I'd
use it in a heartbeat, with the knowledge I have now.

My second choice was Backup Up Manager from Genie9. On my first trial
with this program, the Disaster Recovery disk could not fine the
external drive I used for the backups. So pitched it. I started a test
again a couple months ago, and completely forgot I did that! LOL I
guess I should go test the results again, don't your think? G

I rethought what I was trying to do, create a system for newbies. Not
an experienced user that haunts places like this.

I settled on using Windows Backup and Restore, and File History.
Neither are particularly intuitive, IMO, but they come with the OS and
people would consider them free.

I have them running on my main W10 system, so they are available for me
to use and learn to make it easier to help the newbies.

There's an earlier thread with File History in it, and I *think* it was
Mayayana saying a folder was missing that should have been there. I
then looked at mine, and I was missing the documents folder. I don't
use that folder, so there was nothing there. It may be that's why it
isn't there. I've not investigated this, so that's truly hypothetical
on my part.

Contrary to mechanic's post, I did not find it easy to add other folders
or external drives. I haven't experimented with this lately, so maybe
it was a buggy thing when I was doing it.



--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Firefox 70.0.1
Thunderbird 60.9
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

In response to what Chris wrote :
A family friend wants to get herself a laptop to help get through
isolation. I can help with the choice of laptop, but what is a good,
effective and preferably cheap option for backups? She doesn't have
broadband (and is unlikely to get it anytime soon) so cloud options are
a non-starter. She will be using mobile data for her limited internet
needs (e.g. news and food shopping).

This person has never owned a computer before, is retired and used to
get her internet needs fulfilled by the local library. So it needs to be
as fire-and-forget as possible. I want her to get into good habits from
the start, but I'm not so familiar with range of options for Windows.

Any suggestions gratefully received.

For this question...
o Simple backup option non-techy person
https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/Ql5qvXi7/simple-backup-option-non-techy-person

I saw this last night and hesitated to answer because
(a) there is no easy solution for non-technical people
(b) everything depends on everything else anyway

Plus, "my" solution is only for the technically savvy, IMHO:
o *Philosophy on a tutorial for setting up Windows*
*in a well organized KISS philosophy such that*
*search is never needed & reinstall is trivial*
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/1Gf59YRkaI8/5MfQi5wMCQAJ

As noted by many, there are plenty of freeware solutions.
Yet... most non-technical people, essentially, want a HDD "dd" of sorts.

For me... on a single-user system...
a. I plan my backups a decade or more prior to the backup
b. Which means I break the backup into two components
1. Data I care about
2. Programs I care about
Nothing else matters.

From day one, I put all data I care about where it belongs.
From day one, I put all program installers where they belong.

When it comes time to back up, all I back up are two directories:
C:\data\{my hierarchy of data I care about}
C:\software\{my hierarchy of installers I care about}

Nothing else matters.
o Everything else can easily be replaced by a technical user.

Notice that some of the answers are essentially that if we count the
"Windows' built-in File History backup" that Frank Slootweg & mechanic
spoke about.

My only problem with any pre-defined folder in Windows (or in any operating
system) is they get polluted like you can't believe.

That's why, for example, I never use any pre-defined folder in Windows,
and, the ones that you can't avoid, I simply right click on them to move
them to where they belong if they will contain, usually momentarily,
something I care about.

a. For example, desktop, screenshots & downloads are moved into C:\data.
b. Yet 3D Objects, Music, and Saved Games, for example, are ignored.

When it comes time to re-install the operating system, as I did recently, I
simply re-install the software hierarchy, one by one.

And then I copy back the data hierarchy.
o I keep the "menu" in the data hierarchy, so it doesn't change in decades

I admit there are a few hundred tweaks, e.g., adding right-click context
menus to "open cmd window here" or setting the default for extensionless
files to open in vim, or disabling the window resizing upon hitting the
edges of the screen, or editing more than 15 files at once, etc..

Maybe a "system restore" might solve that but I have never really found
system restores to be of much value, where, lately, I don't even use an
add-on AV program - I don't know why I don't get viruses - maybe I do and I
don't know it - but I just don't. (famous last words, perhaps)

In short, only "some" of what I suggest can the lady use.

Probably the most prescient advice I can give her, and everyone, is to plan
your backup a decade before you buy the computer by having a plan to store
at least your data, if not your installers, in a place _outside_ the
(unfortunately polluted) Windows hierarch.

There's _more_ to my plan, but that's the summary.
a. Put data you care about where it belongs
b. Save all your program installers in a safe place
--
Together we have great solutions to offer for Usenet's public potluck.