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With DaaS Windows Coming, Say Goodbye To Your PC As You Know It



 
 
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  #46  
Old August 1st 18, 08:41 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.privacy.anon-server,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc
The Natural Philosopher[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 133
Default With DaaS Windows Coming, Say Goodbye To Your PC As You Know It

On 01/08/18 20:36, Chris wrote:
William Unruh wrote:
On 2018-08-01, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.


The problem is that the manufacturers/operators of nuclear power plants have proven
themselves incompetent at safety. Fukushima (lets put the emergency
power for water pumps in the basement). Chernobile (lets run tests and
override the emergeny failsafes). And the consequences of unsafe operation are
pretty devestating.


No one's going argue that Chernobyl wasn't a disaster. Fukushima was hit by
series of catastrophic events, one after the other, affecting multiple
backup systems and yet the reactor still didn't breach. The plant failed as
designed for the worst case scenario.

I can't imagine anything surviving a huge earthquake, subsequent tsunami
and failure of the cooling systems unscathed.

Let's not forget the tsunami killed 15,000 people. No-one has died as
result of the radiation leak from the fukushima accident.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/sci...e-years-later/

https://xkcd.com/radiation/

So yes, your statement is OK, but it is a bit likethe
anti-greenouse crowd.


It's the opposite as it's based on fact .

There is nothing that a bunch of coal fired plants cannot do more cheaply than
any other source, until the consequences destroy civilisation. Unfortunately
consequences, including those of incompetence, because incompetence is a fixed
feature of the physica world, are things that need to be
taken into account in making decisions.


And yet despite even the Chernobyl disaster, nuclear has been shown to be
safer, cleaner and better overall than fossil fuel based power plants.

Fossil fuel is unsustainable, destroying the planet and killing people at
an ever increasing pace.

https://www.newscientist.com/article...nuclear-power/


If its in New Scientist, it's probably false.



--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)
Ads
  #47  
Old August 1st 18, 10:04 PM posted to alt.privacy.anon-server,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Bobbie Sellers
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default With DaaS Windows Coming, Say Goodbye To Your PC As You Know It

On 08/01/2018 12:23 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/08/18 19:01, William Unruh wrote:
On 2018-08-01, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.


The problem is that the manufacturers/operators of nuclear power
plants have proven
themselves incompetent at safety. Fukushima (lets put the emergency
power for water pumps in the basement). Chernobile (lets run tests and
override the emergeny failsafes). And the consequences of unsafe
operation are
pretty devestating. So yes, your statement is OK, but it is a bit likethe
anti-greenouse crowd.
There is nothing that a bunch of coal fired plants cannot do more
cheaply than
any other source, until the consequences destroy civilisation.
Unfortunately
consequences, including those of incompetence, because incompetence is
a fixed
feature of the physica world, are things that need to be
taken into account in making decisions.

Oh dear.

Deaths at Chernobyl 50-70
Deaths at Three mile Island 0

Leaving aside chernobyl the other two incidents are a tribute to their
safety systems. Despite complete core meltdown the secondary containment
safety kept emissions so low that there was no public risk at all.

Danger from CO2 emissions 0
..
No reactor of the chernobyl design is running today outside Russia


You have drunk the Left Koolaid, haven't you?

More deaths resulted for inappropriate response to Fukushima than from
the incident itself.


Part of the incompetence the previous poster cited.
And incompetence in design, and location were the beginning of
the failure. Try a book called "BENDING ADVERSITY
Japan and the Art of Survival" by David Pilling from Penguin
Press in 2014. It covers the losses and survivals from
the Fukashima incident and the tsunami among other things.


20,000 people died on account of the tsunami. Half a dozen died when
they were evacuated inappropriately. None died or will die from the
radiation release.


Radiation is not much but radioactive contamination is very
deadly and at least Thyroid cancer will be seen. Hot rubble from
the explosion floated through the air and water to the West Coast of
the USA. Contamination at a low levels even in the Napa Valley wines.
And I would want to check whether similar contaminants are
in Northern Hemisphere wines.

Left and Right politics don't enter into this. Oh and if there
is no incompetence in the operation/design/location of the nuclear
plant then the coal plants will cause more illness and release more
radioactive contaminants.
If a solar plant can be said to release contaminant mainly
these shade the ground under the panels/mirrors, which may cause
changes from direct sunlight vegetation to plants which appreciate a bit
of shade.

bliss

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com
  #48  
Old August 1st 18, 11:00 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.test,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc
Anonymous Remailer (austria)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 550
Default With DaaS Windows Coming, Say Goodbye To Your PC As You Know It


In article
Chris wrote:

William Unruh wrote:
On 2018-08-01, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.


The problem is that the manufacturers/operators of nuclear power plants have proven
themselves incompetent at safety. Fukushima (lets put the emergency
power for water pumps in the basement). Chernobile (lets run tests and
override the emergeny failsafes). And the consequences of unsafe operation are
pretty devestating.


No one's going argue that Chernobyl wasn't a disaster. Fukushima was hit by
series of catastrophic events, one after the other, affecting multiple
backup systems and yet the reactor still didn't breach. The plant failed as
designed for the worst case scenario.

I can't imagine anything surviving a huge earthquake, subsequent tsunami
and failure of the cooling systems unscathed.

Let's not forget the tsunami killed 15,000 people. No-one has died as
result of the radiation leak from the fukushima accident.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/sci...e-years-later/

https://xkcd.com/radiation/

So yes, your statement is OK, but it is a bit likethe
anti-greenouse crowd.


It's the opposite as it's based on fact .

There is nothing that a bunch of coal fired plants cannot do more cheaply than
any other source, until the consequences destroy civilisation. Unfortunately
consequences, including those of incompetence, because incompetence is a fixed
feature of the physica world, are things that need to be
taken into account in making decisions.


And yet despite even the Chernobyl disaster, nuclear has been shown to be
safer, cleaner and better overall than fossil fuel based power plants.

Fossil fuel is unsustainable, destroying the planet and killing people at
an ever increasing pace.

https://www.newscientist.com/article...nuclear-power/


  #49  
Old August 1st 18, 11:32 PM posted to alt.privacy.anon-server,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default With DaaS Windows Coming, Say Goodbye To Your PC As You Know It

"Anonymous" wrote

| A service is something that does something useful.
| So a maid who makes the bed is a service.
|
| Linuxs does something useful. It is a service as much as it is
| software. It is perhaps a service enabled by software much as the
| bedmaking is a service enabled by a maid.
|
| My lawn mower would be a service with this explanation.
|

And he's missed the whole point of the idea of
what software companies, MS in particular, are
doing by defining their software as a service. for
some reason he's seems to not want to know.


  #50  
Old August 1st 18, 11:56 PM posted to comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default With DaaS Windows Coming, Say Goodbye To Your PC As You KnowIt

Andreas Kohlbach wrote:

But that won't change Windows users. They will take it.


You don't seem to have thought this through.

1) Microsoft cannot afford to start putting a rental OS
on OEM computers. This will free the OEMs to put a
fully functional unconstrained OS on the machine instead.
A hardware manufacturer cannot ship a product with
a rental OS on it. That would be "bonkers".

2) Microsoft cannot change the terms of any existing product.
The supported life of Windows 7 or Windows 8, will last
to the end of the stated date in the Life Cycle table.
If they do not live up to their end of the contract,
there will be a class action suit.

3) For the people who "upgraded" from Windows 7, they still
have their original OS. The OS doesn't need updates.

4) For people who make a backup copy of Windows 10 *today*
*this very minute* and store this in a safe place, when
the time comes, that can be restored (with the network
cable pulled), and then there is a relatively simple
procedure to stop updates from Microsoft. I have a VM
frozen at 16299 right now, testing this. A second step
(one I haven't carried out yet), is to install a third party
AV to take the place of Windows Defender, as WD depends
on Windows Update. Replacing with some other AV, should
reduce the nuisance factor of WD.

There are plenty of options available to stay within
the ecosystem.

Whatever Microsoft screws up, means profit for Google.

Canonical is not a player (even if it goes IPO, they
don't "get it"). Google on the other hand, has the
skill set to be a competitor.

Paul
  #51  
Old August 2nd 18, 12:07 AM posted to alt.test,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Anonymous Remailer (austria)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 550
Default With DaaS Windows Coming, Say Goodbye To Your PC As You Know It


In article
"Mayayana" wrote:

"Anonymous" wrote

| A service is something that does something useful.
| So a maid who makes the bed is a service.
|
| Linuxs does something useful. It is a service as much as it is
| software. It is perhaps a service enabled by software much as the
| bedmaking is a service enabled by a maid.
|
| My lawn mower would be a service with this explanation.
|

And he's missed the whole point of the idea of
what software companies, MS in particular, are
doing by defining their software as a service. for
some reason he's seems to not want to know.


  #52  
Old August 2nd 18, 12:11 AM posted to alt.test,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Anonymous
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 409
Default With DaaS Windows Coming, Say Goodbye To Your PC As You Know It

In article
Bobbie Sellers wrote:

On 08/01/2018 12:23 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/08/18 19:01, William Unruh wrote:
On 2018-08-01, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.

The problem is that the manufacturers/operators of nuclear power
plants have proven
themselves incompetent at safety. Fukushima (lets put the emergency
power for water pumps in the basement). Chernobile (lets run tests and
override the emergeny failsafes). And the consequences of unsafe
operation are
pretty devestating. So yes, your statement is OK, but it is a bit likethe
anti-greenouse crowd.
There is nothing that a bunch of coal fired plants cannot do more
cheaply than
any other source, until the consequences destroy civilisation.
Unfortunately
consequences, including those of incompetence, because incompetence is
a fixed
feature of the physica world, are things that need to be
taken into account in making decisions.

Oh dear.

Deaths at Chernobyl 50-70
Deaths at Three mile Island 0

Leaving aside chernobyl the other two incidents are a tribute to their
safety systems. Despite complete core meltdown the secondary containment
safety kept emissions so low that there was no public risk at all.

Danger from CO2 emissions 0
..
No reactor of the chernobyl design is running today outside Russia


You have drunk the Left Koolaid, haven't you?

More deaths resulted for inappropriate response to Fukushima than from
the incident itself.


Part of the incompetence the previous poster cited.
And incompetence in design, and location were the beginning of
the failure. Try a book called "BENDING ADVERSITY
Japan and the Art of Survival" by David Pilling from Penguin
Press in 2014. It covers the losses and survivals from
the Fukashima incident and the tsunami among other things.


20,000 people died on account of the tsunami. Half a dozen died when
they were evacuated inappropriately. None died or will die from the
radiation release.


Radiation is not much but radioactive contamination is very
deadly and at least Thyroid cancer will be seen. Hot rubble from
the explosion floated through the air and water to the West Coast of
the USA. Contamination at a low levels even in the Napa Valley wines.
And I would want to check whether similar contaminants are
in Northern Hemisphere wines.

Left and Right politics don't enter into this. Oh and if there
is no incompetence in the operation/design/location of the nuclear
plant then the coal plants will cause more illness and release more
radioactive contaminants.
If a solar plant can be said to release contaminant mainly
these shade the ground under the panels/mirrors, which may cause
changes from direct sunlight vegetation to plants which appreciate a bit
of shade.

bliss

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com


  #53  
Old August 2nd 18, 02:48 AM posted to comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default With DaaS Windows Coming, Say Goodbye To Your PC As You Know It

"Paul" wrote

| But that won't change Windows users. They will take it.
|
| You don't seem to have thought this through.
|
| 1) Microsoft cannot afford to start putting a rental OS
| on OEM computers. This will free the OEMs to put a
| fully functional unconstrained OS on the machine instead.
| A hardware manufacturer cannot ship a product with
| a rental OS on it. That would be "bonkers".
|
| 2) Microsoft cannot change the terms of any existing product.
| The supported life of Windows 7 or Windows 8, will last
| to the end of the stated date in the Life Cycle table.
| If they do not live up to their end of the contract,
| there will be a class action suit.
|

Your points make sense, but there are probably
all sorts of ways that they could do whatever they
decide is best. For instance, each version of Win10
is only supported for 1 year. They could announce
that everyone is free to stick with an unsupported
version or join the subscription plan.

I'm not saying that will happen. MS have been
trying to turn Windows into adware ever since
Active Desktop in '98 and it hasn't gone over well.
But there are differences today: 1) Most people
want devices for entertainment and don't want to
have to understand them. 2) Internet speeds have
caught up, so that software masquerading as
webpages is now possible.

I wouldn't have predicted that so many people
would lie down for Win10 spyware and
undependability. But they have. Most people don't
see a choice. (Look at all the people who get
duped by scammers who call and say they're
Microsoft, demanding an overdue license fee.)


  #54  
Old August 2nd 18, 03:41 AM posted to alt.privacy.anon-server,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default With DaaS Windows Coming, Say Goodbye To Your PC As You Know It

"Anonymous" wrote

| This is really a very disappointing explanation of the various Linux
| systems. I am almost certain that you have never done more than
| installed a Linux GUI system, played with it for a short time,
| condemned it in you mind, and uninstalled it.

Twice I tried getting used to it and once I looked
into the feasibility of porting VB6 software using
WINE. Do I need to use it and like it in order to
assess it?
Linux just isn't a desktop. It's fine for a server,
but I don't need a server. What Windows offers is
universality and relative ease of use, coupled with
tools for people at all levels.

The last time I tried Linux was a few years ago. I
had a simple test: Set it up and use it without needing
command line and get a firewall that would be easy to
configure to control all outgoing and incoming communication.
As easy as Online Armor is on XP. Even those 2 simple
requirements were impossible to fulfill. The response from
Linux fans: Command line is better and you don't need
a firewall to block outgoing on Linux because it's not
unsafe like Windows. That's classic Linux fan logic: If
you want what we don't got then you're wrong.

| Debian alone has 32,000+
| free software programs available.

And iPhones have even more, don't they? But that
means nothing if I don't want any of them. Linux has
Firefox and TBird. For graphics there's GIMP, which is
still a rough, unfinished project after almost 25 years
of development. But most of the software I typically
use won't run on Linux. That's not the fault of Linux,
but it's the facts. 90+% of PCs run Windows. Software
is easier to write for Windows. So there's lots of
software for Windows. Example: RAW photo work.
Aftershot Pro is very reasonably priced. On Linux?
Last I saw there was only UFRaw, which wasn't much
good. Even for basic graphics I have lots of choices.
GIMP isn't one of them. Or rather, GIMP is a choice
on Windows but not one worth using.

I can also write my own software on Windows.
Writing on Linux would be a steep learning curve.

| Those who have converted off of
| Windows have not found Linux to restrict their needs and uses for a
| computer.

That statement means nothing. I'd love to see
more people using Linux, because then maybe
developers would gradually make it more mainstream.
But it's just not happening. I don't know anyone
using Linux.

| The other Linux distributions make it easy to install some good
| programs right there in their interface.

That's what I *don't* want. If I moved to Linux
it would be to get free of busybody interference.
I don't want a system forcing file restrictions on
me. And I don't want a system with an applet
middleman to oversee software installs. I don't want
it calling home. I want it to work smoothly without
ever needing to call home.
Last time I tried Linux it was so intrusive about
file restrictions that I ended up making FAT32
partitions for storing files.

That's the problem I was talking about: Linux has
been going from half-built to Mac-style lockdown,
without ever reaching the sweet spot of Windows:
An OS that does what you want without needing
to learn a lot, but still allows almost any degree of
customization. Of course, Microsoft are working to
change that. But Linux and Mac are not worthy
substitutes. If you treat computer users as dumb
then your OS will be dumb.

| I am a software engineer and
| hated to have to re-learn how to use the Linux comandline. But there
| were many places on the web that explained how to install programs
| using the Linux comandline that were not in the GUI install interface.

That's fine if that's what you like. It's not
my preference. And it's not the preference
of the vast majority. To defend it and say
one can learn about it online is the classic
Linux defense, as I said above. There is no
defense for not having GUI options for virtually
anything you might want to do. It's been
relatively easy to achieve for over 20 years
now. But of course, it's easier on Windows,
because Microsoft want to encourage software
developers, so they make easy, RAD tools.

As far as I'm concerned, life's too short for
command line. I could also light my stove by
rubbing two sticks together. But why would I?
Command line simply isn't necessary in a properly
designed program. But most of what's on Linux
isn't properly designed. The emphasis is all on
functionality with none on usability.

In the rare cases where I need to do something
with command line, if I need to do it more than
once I'll probably write a script. For instance,
registering COM libraries. I can run a command
but since I do it occasionally I wrote a script
that works by just dropping the DLL onto the
script on my desktop. Why would I go to the trouble
of looking up and typing that command over and
over when I can use drag-drop?

What most Linux fans won't admit is that
command line is really a pointless fetish -- an
unwillingness to adapt. They want to light their
stove by rubbing sticks together because it makes
them feel like masters of arcane knowledge. Which
would be silly enough, but then they scorn others
who want to click a button rather than type out
an incantation.

Part of the problem there is also the culture. There
are too many unsocialized geeks who spend their
time either programming or playing childish computer
games. It's an adolescent culture. (Just look at
what gets top WINE support to see what the main
priorities are. A grown man playing video games is
a sad state of affairs.) Linux is not likely to ever be
a well designed system unless well-rounded people,
concerned with usability and productivity, decide
to polish it. And since there's no business case for
anyone doing that, it's not likely to happen.


  #55  
Old August 2nd 18, 03:55 AM posted to alt.privacy.anon-server,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default With DaaS Windows Coming, Say Goodbye To Your PC As You Know It

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

| This is really a very disappointing explanation of the various Linux
| systems. I am almost certain that you have never done more than
| installed a Linux GUI system, played with it for a short time,
| condemned it in you mind, and uninstalled it.

Twice I tried getting used to it and once I looked
into the feasibility of porting VB6 software using
WINE. Do I need to use it and like it in order to
assess it?


that's not just asking for problems, it's begging.




I can also write my own software on Windows.
Writing on Linux would be a steep learning curve.


it's always good to learn new skills, particularly if you're still
using vb6.
  #56  
Old August 2nd 18, 04:57 AM posted to alt.privacy.anon-server,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.windows-10
mike[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,073
Default With DaaS Windows Coming, Say Goodbye To Your PC As You KnowIt

On 8/1/2018 7:41 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Anonymous" wrote

| This is really a very disappointing explanation of the various Linux
| systems. I am almost certain that you have never done more than
| installed a Linux GUI system, played with it for a short time,
| condemned it in you mind, and uninstalled it.

Twice I tried getting used to it and once I looked
into the feasibility of porting VB6 software using
WINE. Do I need to use it and like it in order to
assess it?
Linux just isn't a desktop. It's fine for a server,
but I don't need a server. What Windows offers is
universality and relative ease of use, coupled with
tools for people at all levels.

The last time I tried Linux was a few years ago. I
had a simple test: Set it up and use it without needing
command line and get a firewall that would be easy to
configure to control all outgoing and incoming communication.
As easy as Online Armor is on XP. Even those 2 simple
requirements were impossible to fulfill. The response from
Linux fans: Command line is better and you don't need
a firewall to block outgoing on Linux because it's not
unsafe like Windows. That's classic Linux fan logic: If
you want what we don't got then you're wrong.

| Debian alone has 32,000+
| free software programs available.

And iPhones have even more, don't they? But that
means nothing if I don't want any of them. Linux has
Firefox and TBird. For graphics there's GIMP, which is
still a rough, unfinished project after almost 25 years
of development. But most of the software I typically
use won't run on Linux. That's not the fault of Linux,
but it's the facts. 90+% of PCs run Windows. Software
is easier to write for Windows. So there's lots of
software for Windows. Example: RAW photo work.
Aftershot Pro is very reasonably priced. On Linux?
Last I saw there was only UFRaw, which wasn't much
good. Even for basic graphics I have lots of choices.
GIMP isn't one of them. Or rather, GIMP is a choice
on Windows but not one worth using.

I can also write my own software on Windows.
Writing on Linux would be a steep learning curve.

| Those who have converted off of
| Windows have not found Linux to restrict their needs and uses for a
| computer.

That statement means nothing. I'd love to see
more people using Linux, because then maybe
developers would gradually make it more mainstream.
But it's just not happening. I don't know anyone
using Linux.

| The other Linux distributions make it easy to install some good
| programs right there in their interface.

That's what I *don't* want. If I moved to Linux
it would be to get free of busybody interference.
I don't want a system forcing file restrictions on
me. And I don't want a system with an applet
middleman to oversee software installs. I don't want
it calling home. I want it to work smoothly without
ever needing to call home.
Last time I tried Linux it was so intrusive about
file restrictions that I ended up making FAT32
partitions for storing files.

That's the problem I was talking about: Linux has
been going from half-built to Mac-style lockdown,
without ever reaching the sweet spot of Windows:
An OS that does what you want without needing
to learn a lot, but still allows almost any degree of
customization. Of course, Microsoft are working to
change that. But Linux and Mac are not worthy
substitutes. If you treat computer users as dumb
then your OS will be dumb.

| I am a software engineer and
| hated to have to re-learn how to use the Linux comandline. But there
| were many places on the web that explained how to install programs
| using the Linux comandline that were not in the GUI install interface.

That's fine if that's what you like. It's not
my preference. And it's not the preference
of the vast majority. To defend it and say
one can learn about it online is the classic
Linux defense, as I said above. There is no
defense for not having GUI options for virtually
anything you might want to do. It's been
relatively easy to achieve for over 20 years
now. But of course, it's easier on Windows,
because Microsoft want to encourage software
developers, so they make easy, RAD tools.

As far as I'm concerned, life's too short for
command line. I could also light my stove by
rubbing two sticks together. But why would I?
Command line simply isn't necessary in a properly
designed program. But most of what's on Linux
isn't properly designed. The emphasis is all on
functionality with none on usability.

In the rare cases where I need to do something
with command line, if I need to do it more than
once I'll probably write a script. For instance,
registering COM libraries. I can run a command
but since I do it occasionally I wrote a script
that works by just dropping the DLL onto the
script on my desktop. Why would I go to the trouble
of looking up and typing that command over and
over when I can use drag-drop?

What most Linux fans won't admit is that
command line is really a pointless fetish -- an
unwillingness to adapt. They want to light their
stove by rubbing sticks together because it makes
them feel like masters of arcane knowledge. Which
would be silly enough, but then they scorn others
who want to click a button rather than type out
an incantation.

Part of the problem there is also the culture. There
are too many unsocialized geeks who spend their
time either programming or playing childish computer
games. It's an adolescent culture. (Just look at
what gets top WINE support to see what the main
priorities are. A grown man playing video games is
a sad state of affairs.) Linux is not likely to ever be
a well designed system unless well-rounded people,
concerned with usability and productivity, decide
to polish it. And since there's no business case for
anyone doing that, it's not likely to happen.


Very well said!

I spent the day trying to get mint 19 installed and integrated
into a windows network. A LOT has changed in the last two
years...for the worse. Somebody decided to REMOVE the
GUI configuration utility for desktop sharing. dconf-editor
seems to have been reduced to useless.
I've got two deal-breaker issues and little interest in
spending large amounts of effort if they're just gonna keep
making it more confusing. You need to be a mind-reader to
configure linux.
  #57  
Old August 2nd 18, 05:23 AM posted to alt.test,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Anonymous Remailer (austria)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 550
Default With DaaS Windows Coming, Say Goodbye To Your PC As You Know It


In article
mike wrote:

On 8/1/2018 7:41 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Anonymous" wrote

| This is really a very disappointing explanation of the various Linux
| systems. I am almost certain that you have never done more than
| installed a Linux GUI system, played with it for a short time,
| condemned it in you mind, and uninstalled it.

Twice I tried getting used to it and once I looked
into the feasibility of porting VB6 software using
WINE. Do I need to use it and like it in order to
assess it?
Linux just isn't a desktop. It's fine for a server,
but I don't need a server. What Windows offers is
universality and relative ease of use, coupled with
tools for people at all levels.

The last time I tried Linux was a few years ago. I
had a simple test: Set it up and use it without needing
command line and get a firewall that would be easy to
configure to control all outgoing and incoming communication.
As easy as Online Armor is on XP. Even those 2 simple
requirements were impossible to fulfill. The response from
Linux fans: Command line is better and you don't need
a firewall to block outgoing on Linux because it's not
unsafe like Windows. That's classic Linux fan logic: If
you want what we don't got then you're wrong.

| Debian alone has 32,000+
| free software programs available.

And iPhones have even more, don't they? But that
means nothing if I don't want any of them. Linux has
Firefox and TBird. For graphics there's GIMP, which is
still a rough, unfinished project after almost 25 years
of development. But most of the software I typically
use won't run on Linux. That's not the fault of Linux,
but it's the facts. 90+% of PCs run Windows. Software
is easier to write for Windows. So there's lots of
software for Windows. Example: RAW photo work.
Aftershot Pro is very reasonably priced. On Linux?
Last I saw there was only UFRaw, which wasn't much
good. Even for basic graphics I have lots of choices.
GIMP isn't one of them. Or rather, GIMP is a choice
on Windows but not one worth using.

I can also write my own software on Windows.
Writing on Linux would be a steep learning curve.

| Those who have converted off of
| Windows have not found Linux to restrict their needs and uses for a
| computer.

That statement means nothing. I'd love to see
more people using Linux, because then maybe
developers would gradually make it more mainstream.
But it's just not happening. I don't know anyone
using Linux.

| The other Linux distributions make it easy to install some good
| programs right there in their interface.

That's what I *don't* want. If I moved to Linux
it would be to get free of busybody interference.
I don't want a system forcing file restrictions on
me. And I don't want a system with an applet
middleman to oversee software installs. I don't want
it calling home. I want it to work smoothly without
ever needing to call home.
Last time I tried Linux it was so intrusive about
file restrictions that I ended up making FAT32
partitions for storing files.

That's the problem I was talking about: Linux has
been going from half-built to Mac-style lockdown,
without ever reaching the sweet spot of Windows:
An OS that does what you want without needing
to learn a lot, but still allows almost any degree of
customization. Of course, Microsoft are working to
change that. But Linux and Mac are not worthy
substitutes. If you treat computer users as dumb
then your OS will be dumb.

| I am a software engineer and
| hated to have to re-learn how to use the Linux comandline. But there
| were many places on the web that explained how to install programs
| using the Linux comandline that were not in the GUI install interface.

That's fine if that's what you like. It's not
my preference. And it's not the preference
of the vast majority. To defend it and say
one can learn about it online is the classic
Linux defense, as I said above. There is no
defense for not having GUI options for virtually
anything you might want to do. It's been
relatively easy to achieve for over 20 years
now. But of course, it's easier on Windows,
because Microsoft want to encourage software
developers, so they make easy, RAD tools.

As far as I'm concerned, life's too short for
command line. I could also light my stove by
rubbing two sticks together. But why would I?
Command line simply isn't necessary in a properly
designed program. But most of what's on Linux
isn't properly designed. The emphasis is all on
functionality with none on usability.

In the rare cases where I need to do something
with command line, if I need to do it more than
once I'll probably write a script. For instance,
registering COM libraries. I can run a command
but since I do it occasionally I wrote a script
that works by just dropping the DLL onto the
script on my desktop. Why would I go to the trouble
of looking up and typing that command over and
over when I can use drag-drop?

What most Linux fans won't admit is that
command line is really a pointless fetish -- an
unwillingness to adapt. They want to light their
stove by rubbing sticks together because it makes
them feel like masters of arcane knowledge. Which
would be silly enough, but then they scorn others
who want to click a button rather than type out
an incantation.

Part of the problem there is also the culture. There
are too many unsocialized geeks who spend their
time either programming or playing childish computer
games. It's an adolescent culture. (Just look at
what gets top WINE support to see what the main
priorities are. A grown man playing video games is
a sad state of affairs.) Linux is not likely to ever be
a well designed system unless well-rounded people,
concerned with usability and productivity, decide
to polish it. And since there's no business case for
anyone doing that, it's not likely to happen.


Very well said!

I spent the day trying to get mint 19 installed and integrated
into a windows network. A LOT has changed in the last two
years...for the worse. Somebody decided to REMOVE the
GUI configuration utility for desktop sharing. dconf-editor
seems to have been reduced to useless.
I've got two deal-breaker issues and little interest in
spending large amounts of effort if they're just gonna keep
making it more confusing. You need to be a mind-reader to
configure linux.


  #58  
Old August 2nd 18, 05:39 AM posted to alt.test,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Anonymous
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 409
Default With DaaS Windows Coming, Say Goodbye To Your PC As You Know It

In article
"Mayayana" wrote:

"Anonymous" wrote

| This is really a very disappointing explanation of the various Linux
| systems. I am almost certain that you have never done more than
| installed a Linux GUI system, played with it for a short time,
| condemned it in you mind, and uninstalled it.

Twice I tried getting used to it and once I looked
into the feasibility of porting VB6 software using
WINE. Do I need to use it and like it in order to
assess it?
Linux just isn't a desktop. It's fine for a server,
but I don't need a server. What Windows offers is
universality and relative ease of use, coupled with
tools for people at all levels.

The last time I tried Linux was a few years ago. I
had a simple test: Set it up and use it without needing
command line and get a firewall that would be easy to
configure to control all outgoing and incoming communication.
As easy as Online Armor is on XP. Even those 2 simple
requirements were impossible to fulfill. The response from
Linux fans: Command line is better and you don't need
a firewall to block outgoing on Linux because it's not
unsafe like Windows. That's classic Linux fan logic: If
you want what we don't got then you're wrong.

| Debian alone has 32,000+
| free software programs available.

And iPhones have even more, don't they? But that
means nothing if I don't want any of them. Linux has
Firefox and TBird. For graphics there's GIMP, which is
still a rough, unfinished project after almost 25 years
of development. But most of the software I typically
use won't run on Linux. That's not the fault of Linux,
but it's the facts. 90+% of PCs run Windows. Software
is easier to write for Windows. So there's lots of
software for Windows. Example: RAW photo work.
Aftershot Pro is very reasonably priced. On Linux?
Last I saw there was only UFRaw, which wasn't much
good. Even for basic graphics I have lots of choices.
GIMP isn't one of them. Or rather, GIMP is a choice
on Windows but not one worth using.

I can also write my own software on Windows.
Writing on Linux would be a steep learning curve.

| Those who have converted off of
| Windows have not found Linux to restrict their needs and uses for a
| computer.

That statement means nothing. I'd love to see
more people using Linux, because then maybe
developers would gradually make it more mainstream.
But it's just not happening. I don't know anyone
using Linux.

| The other Linux distributions make it easy to install some good
| programs right there in their interface.

That's what I *don't* want. If I moved to Linux
it would be to get free of busybody interference.
I don't want a system forcing file restrictions on
me. And I don't want a system with an applet
middleman to oversee software installs. I don't want
it calling home. I want it to work smoothly without
ever needing to call home.
Last time I tried Linux it was so intrusive about
file restrictions that I ended up making FAT32
partitions for storing files.

That's the problem I was talking about: Linux has
been going from half-built to Mac-style lockdown,
without ever reaching the sweet spot of Windows:
An OS that does what you want without needing
to learn a lot, but still allows almost any degree of
customization. Of course, Microsoft are working to
change that. But Linux and Mac are not worthy
substitutes. If you treat computer users as dumb
then your OS will be dumb.

| I am a software engineer and
| hated to have to re-learn how to use the Linux comandline. But there
| were many places on the web that explained how to install programs
| using the Linux comandline that were not in the GUI install interface.

That's fine if that's what you like. It's not
my preference. And it's not the preference
of the vast majority. To defend it and say
one can learn about it online is the classic
Linux defense, as I said above. There is no
defense for not having GUI options for virtually
anything you might want to do. It's been
relatively easy to achieve for over 20 years
now. But of course, it's easier on Windows,
because Microsoft want to encourage software
developers, so they make easy, RAD tools.

As far as I'm concerned, life's too short for
command line. I could also light my stove by
rubbing two sticks together. But why would I?
Command line simply isn't necessary in a properly
designed program. But most of what's on Linux
isn't properly designed. The emphasis is all on
functionality with none on usability.

In the rare cases where I need to do something
with command line, if I need to do it more than
once I'll probably write a script. For instance,
registering COM libraries. I can run a command
but since I do it occasionally I wrote a script
that works by just dropping the DLL onto the
script on my desktop. Why would I go to the trouble
of looking up and typing that command over and
over when I can use drag-drop?

What most Linux fans won't admit is that
command line is really a pointless fetish -- an
unwillingness to adapt. They want to light their
stove by rubbing sticks together because it makes
them feel like masters of arcane knowledge. Which
would be silly enough, but then they scorn others
who want to click a button rather than type out
an incantation.

Part of the problem there is also the culture. There
are too many unsocialized geeks who spend their
time either programming or playing childish computer
games. It's an adolescent culture. (Just look at
what gets top WINE support to see what the main
priorities are. A grown man playing video games is
a sad state of affairs.) Linux is not likely to ever be
a well designed system unless well-rounded people,
concerned with usability and productivity, decide
to polish it. And since there's no business case for
anyone doing that, it's not likely to happen.


  #59  
Old August 2nd 18, 05:45 AM posted to alt.test,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Anonymous
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 98
Default With DaaS Windows Coming, Say Goodbye To Your PC As You Know It

In article
nospam wrote:

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

| This is really a very disappointing explanation of the various Linux
| systems. I am almost certain that you have never done more than
| installed a Linux GUI system, played with it for a short time,
| condemned it in you mind, and uninstalled it.

Twice I tried getting used to it and once I looked
into the feasibility of porting VB6 software using
WINE. Do I need to use it and like it in order to
assess it?


that's not just asking for problems, it's begging.




I can also write my own software on Windows.
Writing on Linux would be a steep learning curve.


it's always good to learn new skills, particularly if you're still
using vb6.


  #60  
Old August 2nd 18, 06:51 AM posted to comp.os.linux.misc,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Bobbie Sellers
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default With DaaS Windows Coming, Say Goodbye To Your PC As You Know It

On 08/01/2018 06:48 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Paul" wrote

| But that won't change Windows users. They will take it.
|
| You don't seem to have thought this through.
|
| 1) Microsoft cannot afford to start putting a rental OS
| on OEM computers. This will free the OEMs to put a
| fully functional unconstrained OS on the machine instead.
| A hardware manufacturer cannot ship a product with
| a rental OS on it. That would be "bonkers".


And if the system on that computer is not named
Windows who would bother with it? Windows is rotten to
the core with spyware and many years of neglect of the
users privacy and security.

|
| 2) Microsoft cannot change the terms of any existing product.
| The supported life of Windows 7 or Windows 8, will last
| to the end of the stated date in the Life Cycle table.
| If they do not live up to their end of the contract,
| there will be a class action suit.
|

Your points make sense, but there are probably
all sorts of ways that they could do whatever they
decide is best. For instance, each version of Win10
is only supported for 1 year. They could announce
that everyone is free to stick with an unsupported
version or join the subscription plan.

I'm not saying that will happen. MS have been
trying to turn Windows into adware ever since
Active Desktop in '98 and it hasn't gone over well.
But there are differences today: 1) Most people
want devices for entertainment and don't want to
have to understand them. 2) Internet speeds have
caught up, so that software masquerading as
webpages is now possible.

I wouldn't have predicted that so many people
would lie down for Win10 spyware and
undependability. But they have. Most people don't
see a choice. (Look at all the people who get
duped by scammers who call and say they're
Microsoft, demanding an overdue license fee.)


Well it sounds like no one writing has
any understanding of the GNU/Linux system and
its several Desktop Environments. Of course no
one mentions AmigaOS which was superior to the
the Windows system even at its end of life of
the original Commodore Business Machines.
Before Linux I had several other
GUI machines using GEOS on the Commodore 128
and AmigaOS,then XP and finally KDE on Mandriva
Linux. The DEs have changed a lot since then
but I still use KDE's current Plasma 5 DE.
I still tried out Gnome 3.2x, Trinity DE,
XFCE, LXQT and a few others. Terminals are
for people who already know more Linux commands
than I do but I still use terminals for specific
operations such as changing ownership of files
and doing checksums on downloaded ISOs.
Everyone seems to think that the version
of Linux they downloaded or otherwise obtained
is just like every other distribution.

They are not. Each has its strengths
and weaknesses. Ubuntu was promoted as a system
to move from Windows to Linux easily but it did
so by obscurantist measures. It still even with
Gnome would make a good cellphone DE but surprise
nearly every major DE I have encounted can do the
same sort of truncated applications list displayed
as a border-less window full of icons which is
really a pain on a small laptop/notebook screen.

Lots of distributions make good straight-
forward desktop computing possibly if you know
something and have some experience with different
systems. And aside from Canonical's Ubuntu you
only have to worry about the spyware you might
download. And I am not about to trust any creative
work I may be about to a Cloud or Windows.

bliss

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com
 




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