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O.T. Cleaning computer



 
 
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  #16  
Old December 1st 18, 05:56 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
No_Name
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Default O.T. Cleaning computer

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 20:12:58 -0800 (PST), Mark Twain
wrote:

I meant (rivets) not(2) of course..

Maybe I can get a set of anti-static
brushes that can get in-between the
fan blades to clean/loosen the dust
and then vacuum?

I don't think they thought much about
maintenance when they build computers.
.

Robert


They do think a lot about ESD tho and if you don't remove any grounds
or detach any components you are pretty safe with a vacuum as long as
you don't actually touch the components with the nozzle. Safest is a
static safe "toner" vac like the 3M. The hose is bonded and the
crevice tool is carbon fiber.
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  #17  
Old December 1st 18, 06:17 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
No_Name
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Default O.T. Cleaning computer

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 20:18:41 -0800 (PST), Mark Twain
wrote:

In passing... had (4) power outages
today all while I was online!

Thankfully the 8500 came back up OK
each time.

Robert


We have been pulling the plug on our computers for 30 years.
They whine about it but if you are not updating an important data
file, nothing bad will happen.
  #18  
Old December 1st 18, 10:34 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Default O.T. Cleaning computer

As I'm on a very limited budget I'm not going to be
able to invest in such equipment and I have other
items I need to buy first.

Robert
  #19  
Old December 1st 18, 10:35 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Default O.T. Cleaning computer

I was concerned about the HD crashing.

Robert

  #20  
Old December 1st 18, 12:32 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

Mark Twain wrote:
I was concerned about the HD crashing.

Robert


The hard drive has "emergency retract". It's
supposed to use the spindle motor as a generator,
to provide enough power to move the arm back
to the resting position. Whether that's how it works,
who can be sure. The one and only web site (HGST) which
"explained" hard drive technology, is closed now.

The heads aren't really intended to "land" on the
platter, because of the possibility of stiction.
At one time, like my 250MB Quantum drive, there
was no ramp, and no place for the heads to go. And
the spindle would spin down, and the heads would
rest on a "textured" landing surface. And the heads
used to "stick", requiring the user to tap the
drive to try to free them up again. That's why
they put in a landing ramp.

On the old wash-tub (computer mainframe) drives,
they used violence at shutdown. There is a large
capacity for energy storage, and the capacitor
is dumped into the voice coil. The radial arm
retracts at high speed and hits a "stop" with
a resounding thud. It's a wonder the heads
don't fall off. Modern drives, when putting the
arm up the ramp, are gentle by comparison.

*******

I found a picture of a fan assembly similar to yours,
that shows screws for both levels. There are
some round-head screws holding the fan to the heatsink.

https://www.amazon.com/DW014-Heat-As...dp/B00ZSXMC7I/

If you're had one of the fan screws loose, you could
always examine it to see how it works. For better or
worse, the technique seems to be "metal screw wedges
in between aluminum surfaces", which could kick up
debris. It would be unnatural for them to use a tap
and thread the heatsink and use a machine screw instead.

For Dell, at least part of the design of their PC cases,
is for speed of assembly. But it could be that the
heatsink assembly is made in some other factory, in
which case driving screws in an interference fit into
the aluminum might be the way they do it. For the
companies that make these, what they want to do is
make a long bar of heatsinks with aluminum extrusion,
then saw off chunks of heatsink (like cutting a baloney).
They don't really want to do any more machining than that.
Cutting threads into the aluminum, would go against
their "philosophy".

Where it gets more interesting, is with copper core
aluminum heatsinks. Where a copper slug is inserted
into the aluminum. And that requires elevated temperature
or something. So that's a level above "baloney slicing"
on the factory floor. The copper slug method is one
level above plain aluminum heatsinks, and reduces the
thermal distance to the fins.

These are three ways to build CPU heatsinks. These
are in increasing order of cooling capacity.

1) plain aluminum
2) aluminum with copper slug in center (contacts CPU)
3) heatpipe cooler to distribute heat to the fins

And for the larger video cards, some of those use

4) vapor chamber (similar to heatpipe), a box with
a couple drops of alcohol or similar, near the base.

Heatpipes move heat better than a solid copper piece
of the same diameter. They work until you exceed the
"capacity" and the fluid inside can't condense because
the heat flux is too great for them. This would cause
the temperature to shoot up, because the transport
mechanism no longer works.

Video cards can use up to around 250W. Intel will be
coming out with a CPU soon, that uses more than that.
(It'll have at least two CPU dies inside, from a
regular processor.) It's a Xeon for servers or something.
It will be interesting to see how they cool it. Water
cooling used by hobbyists, wouldn't really be an option
for a server room. The cooler design must be reliable.

Paul
  #21  
Old December 1st 18, 12:38 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
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Default O.T. Cleaning computer

Mark Twain wrote:
As I'm on a very limited budget I'm not going to be
able to invest in such equipment and I have other
items I need to buy first.

Robert


Where the fan blows down onto the heatsink, the
dust will be near the top of the heatsink. A
tissue moistened with a bit of isopropyl might
work, and a pair of precision tweezers for picking
out stuff that doesn't belong. That's better
than nothing.

You can clean it manually, with hand tools,
being careful to not stress the fan hub too much.
I learned my lesson, by ruining the Coolermaster
fan on my current heatsink, and having to
replace it. The screws on mine were relatively
easy to remove, and a standard fan could take
its place. That's a requirement for me when
I buy coolers, is making sure a regular fan
functions as a replacement.

Paul
  #22  
Old December 1st 18, 01:37 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

Mark Twain wrote:
In passing... had (4) power outages
today all while I was online!

Thankfully the 8500 came back up OK
each time.

Robert


I use a UPS here (SPS type). It covers the one second outages well.

The other kinds of power outages, range from 20 minutes
to 2 hours, and the UPS doesn't stay up long enough
for those.

The price of sinewave output has come down. At one time,
something like this was $1000.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16842301699

Half Load: 11.4 Minutes
Full Load: 3.3 Minutes
1350 VA / 810 Watts

Topology - Line Interactive
Transfer Time - 8ms typical : 10 ms maximum

So that's similar in some ways, to an SPS, only with
Sinewave output instead of modified square wave. (An SPS
runs ice-cold normally, as it isn't doing anything
active when not called upon. Double-conversion UPSes
on the other hand, have fan cooling, because they're
always working, no matter what.) When that unit is
boosting the output, it would need to be running
in some capacity (it can compensate for a brown-out
on the power company side).

With a single idling PC and small LCD monitor connected
to one of those, you'd probably get 45 minutes from it.
Still not enough for a 2 hour outage, where the power
truck has to come out.

There was a time, where we got two one-second
outages per day here. And I decide to get a UPS to
cover over those outages so the PC wouldn't crash.
I got about ten years out of the battery, before
it needed to be replaced (the UPS tests the battery
about once a day, to see if the battery impedance is
correct - it doesn't measure the hold up time or
anything, as a test).

Paul
  #23  
Old December 1st 18, 01:37 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
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Posts: 2,679
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
Where the fan blows down onto the heatsink, the
dust will be near the top of the heatsink. A

[]
What proportion of such fans blow onto the heatsink, as opposed to
sucking off the heatsink - about 50-50, or is one type much commoner
than the other?

I know "clean box" cabinets tend to operate under positive pressure,
which is counter-intuitive (though does make sense when you think it
through), but there the concentration is on air filtration, rather than
cooling.

JPG


Have you ever disagreed with a petition, but been frustrated that there's no
way you can *show* that you disagree? If so, visit 255soft.uk - and please
pass it on, especially to twitter, facebook, gransnet/mumsnet, or any such.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I long for the commercialised Christmas of the 1970s. It's got so religious
now, it's lost its true meaning. - Mike [{at}ostic.demon.co.uk], 2003-12-24
  #24  
Old December 1st 18, 01:57 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
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Posts: 2,679
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

In message , Paul
writes:
Mark Twain wrote:
In passing... had (4) power outages today all while I was online!
Thankfully the 8500 came back up OK
each time.
Robert


I use a UPS here (SPS type). It covers the one second outages well.

The other kinds of power outages, range from 20 minutes
to 2 hours, and the UPS doesn't stay up long enough
for those.

[]
I use a "poor man's UPS" - I use laptops almost exclusively. There has
recently been a long thread on comp.mobile.android (which may have
spread to other 'groups) about what policy gives the best battery
longevity, but even for those that just leave the power connected all
the time as I do (I'm pretty sure that's _not_ best for battery
longevity, though _how_ much difference it makes is far from clear), the
battery will usually give enough to get over up to 20-30 minutes (and
make one-second outages totally not a problem. Even a battery on its
last legs will usually hold out enough to allow a controlled shut down.

(I haven't got round to making up a battery box for my modem/router,
though.)

JPG


Have you ever disagreed with a petition, but been frustrated that there's no
way you can *show* that you disagree? If so, visit 255soft.uk - and please
pass it on, especially to twitter, facebook, gransnet/mumsnet, or any such.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Democracy is when two wolves and a sheep decide what is for dinner.
(quoted by) Ipraylam, 2015-07-13
  #25  
Old December 1st 18, 03:12 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
[]
Where the fan blows down onto the heatsink, the
dust will be near the top of the heatsink. A

[]
What proportion of such fans blow onto the heatsink, as opposed to
sucking off the heatsink - about 50-50, or is one type much commoner
than the other?

I know "clean box" cabinets tend to operate under positive pressure,
which is counter-intuitive (though does make sense when you think it
through), but there the concentration is on air filtration, rather than
cooling.

JPG


Most of these will blow the air downwards, which
can help cool the Vcore regulator or any other
VRM-like portions near the CPU.

Drawing air upwards has been tried, but doesn't
work quite as well. The design the OP has, has no
plenum to speak of, and a "suction" design would
need a plenum to maintain pressure.

*******

Dust in computer cases, is a function of positive
or negative pressure. And fan location makes a difference,
in terms of "stirring" the dust until the air vents
out the back. With some fan installations "dumping"
more of the dust load into the PC, than others.

Some PCs have dust filters on the front. All
that this does, is guarantee a cleaning job every
three months. And you have to position the
PC, so you can pull the washable filter out of
the computer case (at the bottom front). Without
the dust filter, the same PC can run for a year
or two, without a cleaning.

Paul
  #26  
Old December 1st 18, 06:14 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mr Pounder Esquire
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Posts: 100
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Mr Pounder Esquire
writes:
[]
Oh, I've always earthed myself to a radiator before I take the
desktop into the garage.

Good idea, but voltage is relative - it's more important that you
touch (an exposed metal part of) the chassis before touching anything
inside - in theory, it probably doesn't matter if you're at 1 kV, if the
chassis is also at 1 kV. (Well, I exaggerate for effect, but YKWIM.) If
the
chassis and you are both grounded, even better. Often achievable by
leaving the mains lead (US: line cord) plugged in, assuming it's a
3-pin plug.


I need to take it into the garage and take the panels off before I can touch
the chassis. Then I have to find an earth.



  #27  
Old December 1st 18, 08:26 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

Yes that's it and as you can see I have to use
a screwdriver small enough to fit through the
hole to get at the screws.

250W for a video card! no wonder the video card
we installed on the 780 had a fan on it.


Robert
  #28  
Old December 1st 18, 08:30 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

Ok and thanks for the advice,.. as I say
I don't want to mess up anything for the
sake of cleaning.

Robert
  #29  
Old December 1st 18, 08:35 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

I don't have anything fancy like that but have a APC
surge arrest

https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/produ...r=SEC-756-GOO-[53166061159]-[269259981065]-S-[]

Robert
  #30  
Old December 1st 18, 08:59 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
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Posts: 2,679
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

In message , Mr Pounder Esquire
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Mr Pounder Esquire
writes:
[]
Oh, I've always earthed myself to a radiator before I take the
desktop into the garage.

Good idea, but voltage is relative - it's more important that you
touch (an exposed metal part of) the chassis before touching anything
inside - in theory, it probably doesn't matter if you're at 1 kV, if the
chassis is also at 1 kV. (Well, I exaggerate for effect, but YKWIM.) If
the
chassis and you are both grounded, even better. Often achievable by
leaving the mains lead (US: line cord) plugged in, assuming it's a
3-pin plug.


I need to take it into the garage and take the panels off before I can touch
the chassis. Then I have to find an earth.

That might be one case where, indeed, you and the chassis are at the
same potential (thus you're unlikely to cause damage by a discharge),
even if that potential isn't earth potential. (Although I'm surprised
you don't have a handy earth in your garage - don't you have power
there, e. g. for a battery-charger? If so, I'd _hope_ it has earth
terminals!)


JPG


Ever been frustrated that you can't *disagree* with a petition? If so, visit
255soft.uk - and please pass it on, too.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Old soldiers never die - only young ones
 




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