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#46
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Classic Shell
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 11:44:48 +0200, Alias wrote:
Do you know the difference between take and use? I *can't* take the software. I can only use a *copy*. People are throwing around the term 'theft' as if it means using something you don't 'own'; in he the UK at least the definition of 'theft' includes the term 'with the intention of permanently depriving...'; thus there is no theft involved in copying a software item for one's own use. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ition-of-theft In legal terms you are perfectly entitled to do anything not prohibited by law; morals don't come into it. |
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#47
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Classic Shell
On 10/3/2013 2:29 PM, mechanic wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 11:44:48 +0200, Alias wrote: Do you know the difference between take and use? I *can't* take the software. I can only use a *copy*. People are throwing around the term 'theft' as if it means using something you don't 'own'; in he the UK at least the definition of 'theft' includes the term 'with the intention of permanently depriving...'; thus there is no theft involved in copying a software item for one's own use. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ition-of-theft In legal terms you are perfectly entitled to do anything not prohibited by law; morals don't come into it. +1 -- Alias The only real problems are avarice, anger and stupidity. |
#48
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Classic Shell
On 10/3/13 3:50 AM, Alias wrote:
On 10/3/2013 3:23 AM, Ken Springer wrote: On 10/2/13 7:08 PM, Nil wrote: On 02 Oct 2013, Alias wrote in alt.comp.os.windows-8: On 10/2/2013 8:15 PM, Nil wrote: And that makes it all right? No, but what in the world is all right today? So, you admit that it's not right to take the man's software without paying for it. Then why do you support that? It's not in his pocket. I personally have no use for the program. What I do can't be stolen. You're avoiding the issue. You seem to support people taking software that doesn't belong to them. Do you also support people taking things from you that don't belong to them? Doubt if you get a sensible answer. I asked him if he had anything he wanted me to steal from him, all he did was ask if I was naive. No, I asked have you been this naive all your life. Your being naive wasn't in question. You do not know me, or if I am naive. I know I'm honest, are you? But we know you appear to be a thief. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 23.0 Thunderbird 17.0.8 LibreOffice 4.1.0.4 |
#49
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Classic Shell
On Thu, 3 Oct 2013 13:29:46 +0100, mechanic wrote:
People are throwing around the term 'theft' as if it means using something you don't 'own'; in he the UK at least the definition of 'theft' includes the term 'with the intention of permanently depriving...'; thus there is no theft involved in copying a software item for one's own use. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ition-of-theft You are depriving the author of the bread and milk they would have bought if you had paid for the software! -- Regards - Rodney Pont The from address exists but is mostly dumped, please send any emails to the address below e-mail rpont (at) gmail (dot) com |
#50
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Classic Shell
On 10/3/2013 2:48 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 10/3/13 3:50 AM, Alias wrote: On 10/3/2013 3:23 AM, Ken Springer wrote: On 10/2/13 7:08 PM, Nil wrote: On 02 Oct 2013, Alias wrote in alt.comp.os.windows-8: On 10/2/2013 8:15 PM, Nil wrote: And that makes it all right? No, but what in the world is all right today? So, you admit that it's not right to take the man's software without paying for it. Then why do you support that? It's not in his pocket. I personally have no use for the program. What I do can't be stolen. You're avoiding the issue. You seem to support people taking software that doesn't belong to them. Do you also support people taking things from you that don't belong to them? Doubt if you get a sensible answer. I asked him if he had anything he wanted me to steal from him, all he did was ask if I was naive. No, I asked have you been this naive all your life. Your being naive wasn't in question. You do not know me, or if I am naive. I know you're being naive. I know I'm honest, are you? Really? You've never told a lie? But we know you appear to be a thief. No, it's legal and not theft to use a copy of software, music or videos where I live. I am not depriving the owners of their software. They still have it and no one stole it from them. Can we add logic impaired to your naivety? -- Alias The only real problems are avarice, anger and stupidity. |
#51
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Classic Shell
On 10/3/13 6:29 AM, mechanic wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 11:44:48 +0200, Alias wrote: Do you know the difference between take and use? I *can't* take the software. I can only use a *copy*. People are throwing around the term 'theft' as if it means using something you don't 'own'; in he the UK at least the definition of 'theft' includes the term 'with the intention of permanently depriving...'; thus there is no theft involved in copying a software item for one's own use. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ition-of-theft Are you not intentionally "permanently depriving" the author of Start8 the $4.99 USD when using a program without payment to the author? That negates the stipulation of #2 under the Basic Definition of Theft. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" is a commonly quoted part of a dialogue in William Shakespeare's play Romeo and Juliet, in which Juliet argues that the names of things do not matter, only what things "are". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_rose...smell_as_sweet Just because you aren't called a thief, legally, doesn't meant you aren't one. In legal terms you are perfectly entitled to do anything not prohibited by law; morals don't come into it. Morals are the basis for every law. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 23.0 Thunderbird 17.0.8 LibreOffice 4.1.0.4 |
#52
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Classic Shell
Ken Springer wrote in news:l2jp24$fa7$2
@speranza.aioe.org: No, I asked have you been this naive all your life. Your being naive wasn't in question. You do not know me, or if I am naive. I know I'm honest, are you? But we know you appear to be a thief. He appears to be a thief because he is a thief. |
#53
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Classic Shell
On 10/3/13 6:29 AM, mechanic wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 11:44:48 +0200, Alias wrote: snip http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ition-of-theft That's a nice site, mechanic. I don't have the time to search, but it would be nice if a similar site existed for the US. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 23.0 Thunderbird 17.0.8 LibreOffice 4.1.0.4 |
#54
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Classic Shell
On 10/3/13 6:54 AM, Alias wrote:
On 10/3/2013 2:48 PM, Ken Springer wrote: On 10/3/13 3:50 AM, Alias wrote: On 10/3/2013 3:23 AM, Ken Springer wrote: On 10/2/13 7:08 PM, Nil wrote: On 02 Oct 2013, Alias wrote in alt.comp.os.windows-8: On 10/2/2013 8:15 PM, Nil wrote: And that makes it all right? No, but what in the world is all right today? So, you admit that it's not right to take the man's software without paying for it. Then why do you support that? It's not in his pocket. I personally have no use for the program. What I do can't be stolen. You're avoiding the issue. You seem to support people taking software that doesn't belong to them. Do you also support people taking things from you that don't belong to them? Doubt if you get a sensible answer. I asked him if he had anything he wanted me to steal from him, all he did was ask if I was naive. No, I asked have you been this naive all your life. Your being naive wasn't in question. You do not know me, or if I am naive. I know you're being naive. I know I'm honest, are you? Really? You've never told a lie? But we know you appear to be a thief. No, it's legal and not theft to use a copy of software, music or videos where I live. I am not depriving the owners of their software. They still have it and no one stole it from them. Can we add logic impaired to your naivety? Then, under your belief's, plagiarism is also not theft. Correct? -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 23.0 Thunderbird 17.0.8 LibreOffice 4.1.0.4 |
#55
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Classic Shell
On 10/3/2013 2:57 PM, JoeBro wrote:
Ken Springer wrote in news:l2jp24$fa7$2 @speranza.aioe.org: No, I asked have you been this naive all your life. Your being naive wasn't in question. You do not know me, or if I am naive. I know I'm honest, are you? But we know you appear to be a thief. He appears to be a thief because he is a thief. Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt wrong! Theft is a legal not a moral issue. Where I live it is not theft. Ergo, I am not a thief. -- Alias The only real problems are avarice, anger and stupidity. |
#56
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Classic Shell
On 10/3/2013 2:49 PM, Rodney Pont wrote:
On Thu, 3 Oct 2013 13:29:46 +0100, mechanic wrote: People are throwing around the term 'theft' as if it means using something you don't 'own'; in he the UK at least the definition of 'theft' includes the term 'with the intention of permanently depriving...'; thus there is no theft involved in copying a software item for one's own use. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ition-of-theft You are depriving the author of the bread and milk they would have bought if you had paid for the software! You're assuming the person who downloads the software can or would pay for it. And you know what they say about the word "assume". In the Start8 case you might have a point but you don't when it comes to Microsoft, Sony, Warner, etc. Personally, even though I could get Start8 off the Bay, I would pay for it because I figure the guy needs the money. Unfortunately for him, I have no use for it and Microsoft will not steal from him or her but will put the software out of business when 8.1 becomes available. Are you going to bitch and moan about that? -- Alias The only real problems are avarice, anger and stupidity. |
#57
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Classic Shell
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 01:09:30 +0200, "Alias"
wrote in article l2i93f$2e7$1 @dont-email.me... On 10/2/2013 7:27 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 19:14:36 +0200, "Alias" wrote in article l2hka2$19r$1 @dont-email.me... On 10/2/2013 6:23 PM, Ken Springer wrote: On 10/2/13 10:06 AM, Alias wrote: On 10/2/2013 5:49 PM, Ken Springer wrote: On 10/2/13 8:51 AM, Alias wrote: On 10/2/2013 4:12 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 08:00:38 -0600, "Ken Springer" wrote in article l2h8u3$52r$1 @speranza.aioe.org... On 10/2/13 5:00 AM, Ron wrote: On 10/2/2013 3:42 AM, Ian Jackson wrote: In message , Ken Blake writes On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 03:35:15 -0400, Ron wrote: On 8/26/2013 5:06 PM, Ken Blake wrote: On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 03:35:01 -0500, CRNG wrote: snip As far as I'm concerned, $4.99 is close enough to free. I don't mind paying for it. If you've found it for free, care to share? snip pirate link So, you believe in stealing????? And for a measly $5 even. Petty theft, a misdemeanor in the USA. Course, some countries like Spain have laws that if it's for personal use and not for profit, downloading from The Pirate Bay is completely legal and not considered theft. You do know that this group can be accessed by folks not in the USA or do you? I do, but taking something that doesn't belong to you is still theft, no matter how small. It's only theft if the law says it's theft. Ask MS and Apple what they took from Xerox. Did they activate before using what they took? Negative, sir. If you have morals, and live by them, it's theft. The law just provides consequences acceptable to the majority of society. Give me a ****ing break and get off your high moral horse. No one steals, right? Not Wall Street, not the politicians, the oil companies, the banks? And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a big part of what is wrong with our society today - "it's OK for me to steal since those folks did bad things too! See, I'm entitled!" Doesn't matter if the law provides you an exemption. Doesn't matter if someone else is doing wrong. Doesn't matter if you can justify it to yourself. It is still wrong. And you're still on your high moral horse as if you were a bloody saint. How does it feel to be morally perfect? Never said I was morally perfect. I strive toward that high mark however, yet I'm constantly aware of my failings. The difference, apparently, is that I recognize them as failings. -- Zaphod "Yeah. Listen, I'm Zaphod Beeblebrox, my father was Zaphod Beeblebrox the Second, my grandfather Zaphod Beeblebrox the Third..." "What?" "There was an accident with a contraceptive and a time machine. Now concentrate!" |
#58
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Classic Shell
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 14:54:49 +0200, "Alias"
wrote in article l2jpf3$udd$1 @dont-email.me... On 10/3/2013 2:48 PM, Ken Springer wrote: On 10/3/13 3:50 AM, Alias wrote: On 10/3/2013 3:23 AM, Ken Springer wrote: On 10/2/13 7:08 PM, Nil wrote: On 02 Oct 2013, Alias wrote in alt.comp.os.windows-8: On 10/2/2013 8:15 PM, Nil wrote: And that makes it all right? No, but what in the world is all right today? So, you admit that it's not right to take the man's software without paying for it. Then why do you support that? It's not in his pocket. I personally have no use for the program. What I do can't be stolen. You're avoiding the issue. You seem to support people taking software that doesn't belong to them. Do you also support people taking things from you that don't belong to them? Doubt if you get a sensible answer. I asked him if he had anything he wanted me to steal from him, all he did was ask if I was naive. No, I asked have you been this naive all your life. Your being naive wasn't in question. You do not know me, or if I am naive. I know you're being naive. I know I'm honest, are you? Really? You've never told a lie? But we know you appear to be a thief. No, it's legal and not theft to use a copy of software, music or videos where I live. I am not depriving the owners of their software. They still have it and no one stole it from them. No, you are depriving them of the fruits of their labor - that is, payment for the service they provided to you by writing the software, performing the music, etc. In civilized countries, that is considered theft. -- Zaphod If I had two heads like you, Zaphod, I could have hours of fun banging them against a wall. -Ford Prefect |
#59
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Classic Shell
On 10/3/2013 2:57 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
Morals are the basis for every law. More naivety. Ever hear the expression, "if knew what went into making sausage and laws, you'd have nothing to do with either one"? Example: the law in the U.S. against the possession of pot, cocaine and heroin were NOT enacted to protect the public's health. They were enacted to make it easier to bust black people and Latinos. Before that law, heroin and cocaine were available at any drug store and even advertized in paper media. There was no real drug problem back then. Preach to me about the morality involved in that law. -- Alias The only real problems are avarice, anger and stupidity. |
#60
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Classic Shell
On 10/3/2013 4:00 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 01:09:30 +0200, "Alias" wrote in article l2i93f$2e7$1 @dont-email.me... On 10/2/2013 7:27 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 19:14:36 +0200, "Alias" wrote in article l2hka2$19r$1 @dont-email.me... On 10/2/2013 6:23 PM, Ken Springer wrote: On 10/2/13 10:06 AM, Alias wrote: On 10/2/2013 5:49 PM, Ken Springer wrote: On 10/2/13 8:51 AM, Alias wrote: On 10/2/2013 4:12 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 08:00:38 -0600, "Ken Springer" wrote in article l2h8u3$52r$1 @speranza.aioe.org... On 10/2/13 5:00 AM, Ron wrote: On 10/2/2013 3:42 AM, Ian Jackson wrote: In message , Ken Blake writes On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 03:35:15 -0400, Ron wrote: On 8/26/2013 5:06 PM, Ken Blake wrote: On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 03:35:01 -0500, CRNG wrote: snip As far as I'm concerned, $4.99 is close enough to free. I don't mind paying for it. If you've found it for free, care to share? snip pirate link So, you believe in stealing????? And for a measly $5 even. Petty theft, a misdemeanor in the USA. Course, some countries like Spain have laws that if it's for personal use and not for profit, downloading from The Pirate Bay is completely legal and not considered theft. You do know that this group can be accessed by folks not in the USA or do you? I do, but taking something that doesn't belong to you is still theft, no matter how small. It's only theft if the law says it's theft. Ask MS and Apple what they took from Xerox. Did they activate before using what they took? Negative, sir. If you have morals, and live by them, it's theft. The law just provides consequences acceptable to the majority of society. Give me a ****ing break and get off your high moral horse. No one steals, right? Not Wall Street, not the politicians, the oil companies, the banks? And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a big part of what is wrong with our society today - "it's OK for me to steal since those folks did bad things too! See, I'm entitled!" Doesn't matter if the law provides you an exemption. Doesn't matter if someone else is doing wrong. Doesn't matter if you can justify it to yourself. It is still wrong. And you're still on your high moral horse as if you were a bloody saint. How does it feel to be morally perfect? Never said I was morally perfect. Then don't throw stones. I strive toward that high mark however, yet I'm constantly aware of my failings. The difference, apparently, is that I recognize them as failings. If you hadn't eaten for a week, would you steal food? -- Alias The only real problems are avarice, anger and stupidity. |
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