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Toshiba W-7 went dark



 
 
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  #61  
Old March 17th 18, 03:53 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,216
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark

In message ,
"
writes:

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , HB writes:


Brevity snip

(-:
[]
This is another concern of mine. I not only didn't get CDs with the last
2
PCs, but no nag screens either. How do I make a bootable disc for them or
one of these "images"?


Assuming they _have_ the ability to make one, the way to do so will vary
from make to make and probably model to model. Get the manual (if you
didn't get one with, and you may well not have, it should be downloadable
as a .pdf [usually] from the manufacturer's website), and - if it isn't
obvious from the contents list - search it for the word recovery or
emergency.


Looks like I found it. I'll be making some DVDs later tonight for this HP
W-10 Notebook.


Good. Though remember that they _might_ only give you the option of
returning to as-new, so continue to certainly back up your data, and
ideally also image your C:.

Back to the Toshiba.

[]
The Toshiba is W-7, also has Classic Shell installed, is dead in the water.
All I can get is the F12 screen that is basically useless at this point.


Yes, obviously to get any sort of shell, the system has to load from the
hard disc.
[]
I wish I had one of those. I never thought to look for a way to make a
rescue or boot disk for the Toshiba.


Assuming we get it working, I imagine you now _will_ look for it. But
still:

On the whole, I think a third-party imaging tool, Like Macrium or Acronis
(both free), with the boot CD they allow you to make, along with just
copying (or using something like SyncToy), is better. (I image C: and any
hidden partitions, and just copy/sync. my D: [data] partition.) The reason
being that these restore everything exactly how you had it - including all
the software you've installed, including all the tweaks to both the OS and
the software you've done over the years; whereas using recovery tools
_can_ alter things, in the extreme returning to as-new, losing all your
software (and possibly data). You put the image - and data copy - on an
external disc.


I remember having something like that years ago. But when the black screen
with the blinker occured, it didn't work. Nothing worked. There was no way
to make the PC SEE the drive and respond. It didn't work as advertised. I


When you say no way to make it see the drive, I suspect _either_ you
haven't set it to boot from the CD/DVD drive before the hard drive, _or_
you haven't burned the DVDs in the correct manner that makes them
bootable.

As an outside possibility, the HD could be so badly faulty that just by
being there, it's stopping the PC working properly at all - overloading
the power supply, or something. But I think this is highly unlikely,
since you have (sometimes!) seen the BIOS boot screens. Nevertheless,
you can _try_ booting (powering on) the PC with the hard disc removed,
and one of the bootable CDs (a Windows 7 disc, a Windows 7 recovery
disc, a Linux self-boot disc, a Macrium or Acronis disc, ...) in the DVD
drive: you wouldn't be able to repair the HD, but that should at least
show whether the HD was faulty enough to prevent booting. But I don't
think that is the case - I think the reason it's not booting from one of
those DVDs is one (or both) of the reasons in the above paragraph.

may as well have inserted a pancake in the drive. I have everything of value
on the Toshiba saved to a thumbdrive. I need some kind of emergency boot
disc for the Toshiba but was unable to find anything online to download and
burn to a DC or DVD. I'm going to check these two out later. Macrium and
Acronis.

Although they make a bootable disc, that disc is intended to be used to
(either make or restore from) an image; if you don't have such an image
to restore from, booting from a Macrium (or Acronis0 disc won't get you
anywhere.

When you say you have "everything of value" saved, you mean presumably
all that _you_ have created, which most people call your data. As you've
discovered, the OS is also of value. Making an image with Macrium (of C:
and any hidden partitions) would allow you to restore, either to the
existing disc if it's OK hardware-wise or to a new one if you have to
buy a new one. the system to exactly as it was when you made the image.
Without such an image, you have to reinstall the OS, and any software,
and get all the updates that have come out since the disc you reinstall
it from was made, and do all the tweaks to both the OS and any installed
software to get them back how you had them - which for me would be hours
or most likely days of work, so is also IMO "of value".
You need somewhere to store the image of course. I use an external HD (I
store images from more than one PC on it); a thumbdrive might do, though
I wouldn't trust one for backups. (I back up my "data" to it too.)

One is a Tablet w/W-10 and the other a Notebook
w/W-10. I have nothing in case one goes dark on me. The one before
these



I know little about tablets; if you even can make recovery software for
those, I don't know how you'd use it, as they don't have an optical drive.
The notebook I assume _does_ have such a drive.


The Tablet has a USB port. The Notebook the usual optical drive.


Some tablets have a strange sort of USB port. Perhaps one that runs W10
_would_ have hardware that can boot from it, so that might be OK. The
notebook should be OK.
[]
I imagine you turn it on with the thumbdrive plugged in. You might have to
amend the boot order in the BIOS so that it boots from USB first. $900
sounds a lot for a laptop - or even a desktop for that matter!


It's a HP I bought 2 or 3 years ago mainly for the kids since it has some
kind of special sofware that makes it very fast. It was recommended for
gamers. I got it at Best Buy. It has 12GBs memory and a 1TB HD. They love
it.

Lucky kids!

[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf


(You can snip my signatures from your replies; good software will do
that automatically, but I don't know if OE does. Or rather OE-RunasXP.)

BTW, I 'm acessing OE6 from a thumbdrive. An ancient free version RunasXP
was going away a few years back.

Microsoft motto "if it ain't broke keep fixing it till it is."


(-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Heaven forbid today's audience should feel bombarded with information or
worse, lectured. Dont'scare the horses by waving facts around.
- David Butcher, RT 2014/11/29-12/5
Ads
  #62  
Old March 17th 18, 03:53 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
HB[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 172
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark


"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , HB writes:
[]
I had to pass since Linux was a 8 GB download and I don't have unlimited
ISP
service. The website didn't say what to do with it once downloaded. The
extenstion was unknown to me. The MS rescue software I downloaded did
nothing to boot the Toshiba nor did the Avira boot disk.


Was the extension .iso?


No, not ISO. I don't remember but never saw it before.



If you're not sure about this, ask (telling us
what burning software you use) and we'll help; if necessary, we'll
recommend suitable free burning software. (The most popular seems to be
ImgBurn, version 2.5.8.0 or 2.5.7.0 [later versions have junk bundled
with
them], which can be got from repositories like oldversion.com -
http://www.oldversion.com/windows/imgburn-2-5-7-0 .)


I have Ashampoo installed. I would have to go through the thumb-drives to
see what else I have saved and not installed. I personally haven't burned
a
CD or DVD in years.


If it looks like the screenshots on
https://www.ashampoo.com/uk/gbp/psr/...ng-studio-free
, then on the "Main" screen, I _suspect_ you want "Disc Image" rather than
"Burn Data"; without having it installed myself, however, I'm not sure if
Disc Image is for *making* (.iso) images *of* _existing_ CD/DVDs, or for
burning them *from* an .iso file. Try clicking on it: it should be obvious
which. (It may do both - in fact if it can take images of existing discs,
it's unlikely it can't also burn from such images.)


So the Linux PUPPY file will be what's called an ISO file? And I have to
find out if my copy of Ashampoo burns ISO files. What about Imgburn? I
think that one burns them.



Alternatively, get ImgBurn - Paul has shown where. It's obvious when
running that. But I suspect your Ashampoo can do it.




it in the tray and.....? At what point does the CD go into the tray?
That

Ideally, before you turn on the computer. Since you'll need it on to
eject
the tray (unless you use the paperclip method), turn it on, press the
eject button, turn it off.

wont mess up the windows files already on the HD?


Just booting the Linux shouldn't. Things you do while _in_ the Linux
may,
but only deliberate actions - and after all, assuming the HD doesn't
have
a hardware fault, we're going to have to tweak files on it anyway.


OK... so I look for and download Linux PUPPY and burn it to a DVD. Eject
tray, then off the PC, insert DVD and turn the PC back on. What supposed to
happen then?


Wouldn't it be easier for me to just take the HD to a shop and let them
check it? How would Linux get the Toshiba to boot since it doesn't react
to
the rescue discs? Isn't there anything smaller to give the same
information?


SHOP: Depends what relationship you have with the shop. If they're going
to charge you their standard service charge just for looking at it, then I
imagine that'd be more than the cost of the external dock (at least if
bought online) anyway. If you do get them to look at it, then there's
incentive for them to say it's duff to get you to buy a new one - I doubt,
unless it's a very good shop, that they'd recover it for you even if they
say it isn't duff: the best they're likely to do is offer to reinstall
Windows from scratch.
LINUX: the laptop should boot from a CD/DVD, provided (a) the CD has been
burned correctly (not just the .iso file written to it as data),


How is it burned properly? I am in alien terratory here. How do I know
how/where to get the PUPPY version as an ISO?

and (b) the laptop's BIOS boot sequence is set to try CD/DVD first.
SMALLER: Linuxes _are_ smaller than 8G; we're not sure what it is you have
downloaded.


I didn't download it then I saw the unknown EXE.

[]
I don't know know if it's SATA. Opening up the case and pulling out parts
is not something I'm anxious to do. How would I know if the HDs good or
not
if it's hooked to the CD cables? What would that tell me?



If you did that, then turned on that PC and went into Windows Explorer
(Windows key and E), if you can see a drive or drives other than the
existing hard disc and any card reader slots that normally come up, then
you are getting some response from it. If it shows how full that disc is,
things are looking even better. If you can then see what files are on it,
things are looking very good. You would also be able to run assorted tests
on it - read its SMART data, do an HDTune read run, and so on.


How can I do it using the USB port? Where do I get a Dock?


It will cost me because I don't have unlimited service and will either go
over the 20 GBs or my family will have around 2 GB for the rest of the
month
which is unrealistic around here. Verizon charges $10 a GB and it adds up
fast. There has to be something smaller than that out there.I know nothing
about Linux. It would be useless to me.


Paul has given you a link to one that's under 400 MB. Personally I
wouldn't go that route as I know virtually nothing of Linux either, but
then I already have an external disc dock, and even if I didn't, I would
not be averse to putting the disc inside a desktop computer that had the
right cables. Your situation may be different.



Another alternative would be to make a Windows 7 DVD (see one of Paul's
posts), and boot from that, to get at the recovery console.


How do I do that when you can't move W software that comes with one PC to



You'd follow Paul's instructions on how to make the Windows DVD. While it
might not be exactly the right one for your laptop, you should be able to
boot from it (running entirely from the DVD and in RAM, same as the Linux
options) and get at the recovery console, where we might be able to repair
corrupted files, partition tables, and so on. This would only be worth
doing if the drive itself is fine, but has just had its contents corrupted
somehow; I think the first thing is to establish that. You can do that by
*EITHER* booting a Windows or Linux disc on the laptop (running entirely
from the DVD/CD and in RAM) and using that to _look at_ the HD in its
normal place in the laptop, *OR* taking the HD out of the laptop and
examining it using another computer, EITHER by connecting it internally OR
accessing it via USB (dock, "cable", or housing). I prefer the latter
method as (a) I have a dock (b) I don't know my way around Linux, or the
Windows recovery console. YMMV.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I can prove anything with statistics - except the truth.



  #63  
Old March 17th 18, 04:20 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,216
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark

In message , HB writes:
[]
So I download Lynux "puppy" and burn it to a DVD and it will boot the


I think that one would fit on a CD.

Toshiba unless ther HD is toast? I don't have to worry about the strange


If it will boot the Toshiba, it will do so even if the HD _is_ toast,
unless it's toast in a very unlikely manner.

extension? There is no other software out there anyone knows about that


You DO have to worry about the strange extension, if that extension is
".iso". You DON'T just burn that file to the CD the same way you'd burn
any other data file: you have to use "create CD from ISO image", or some
similar setting in your Ashampoo. (Or download and use ImgBurn as
already described - it's fairly obvious within that which is the
create-from-ISO-image option.)

would boot the PC?


If correctly put onto the CD or DVD (as above), and the boot sequence on
the PC is set to boot from the CD/DVD drive, then any of these will boot
the PC:

o A Windows 7 install disc
o A Windows 7 recovery/repair disc
o A Linux boot disc
o A Macrium or Acronis boot disc
o A Kaspersky, or similar, disc
o other boot discs

What they _do_ when they boot obviously varies. A W7 install disc will
try to install W7, though you _can_ I think get to the recovery console
from it. A W7 repair disc I've never used, but I _think_ they go
straight into the recovery console. A Linux one will boot Linux, from
which you may be able to examine the disc. A Macrium or Acronis boot
disc would enable you to restore from an image, which isn't of use to
you at the moment. A Kaspersky disc would attempt to do a malware scan,
which probably wouldn't succeed at the moment, if it can't get at the HD
properly to scan it.

If if does nothing what does that mean?

Probably, you've either not burned the disc properly, or not set the
BIOS boot sequence correctly. You can check out any such disc by booting
one of your other PCs from it, having set their BIOS to boot from CD/DVD
first. (If you succeed and they do boot from the CD/DVD, shut them down,
in whatever manner is appropriate to the type of boot disc it is;
they're unlikely to change anything if you do that.)

*******

Meanwhile, this is for ISO files. It makes bootable DVDs from them.


So the Linux PUPPY files will be turned into ISO files able to boot
computers that can't load their OSs?

Not quite. What you download IS an ISO file (or possibly an ISO file
inside a .zip or similar file, which you'd have to extract). An ISO file
is a sort of image of a CD: when you burn a CD from an ISO file (note I
said "burn a CD from an ISO file", NOT "burn an ISO file to a CD"), if
you then examine the CD you have created, you will see lots of files. If
you like, think of an ISO file as a sort of .zip file, but of the entire
contents of a CD; burning a CD from it sort of unzips all the files from
inside the ISO onto the CD, as part of the burning process. (That's a
simplification - actually the opposite! - of what happens, but is near
enough.)

http://www.oldversion.com/windows/do...mgburn-2-5-0-0

2.5.0.0_SetupImgBurn_2.5.0.0.exe 2,169,915 bytes Jul 26, 2009
CRC32: 39CD6FC6
MD5: F3791CFACDAC03B9E676E44AA2630243
SHA-1: E07BCC23B495D0A966BAE359EA9E0E3A11888454

The download button for that is green in color and says:

+-----------------------------------------------+
| Download Now | |
| | |
| V |
| |
| Tested: Free from spyware, adware and viruses |
+-----------------------------------------------+

This version is free from Adware. Turn off the "auto update"
in the preferences. Do not accept any efforts it might make
to update (until you know some version is free of adware).
The size of the package increased after this release, which
is a rough guide to detecting the presence of extra materials.

I like Imgburn. I don't like Adware.

Paul



That's a burning program, to be used as an alternative to your Ashampoo.
Go on, get it and run it: it's only just over 2M! Then we'll know at
least that you have something that we know can easily burn CD/DVDs from
ISO files.

But I'd still say _my_ first choice - rather than trying to boot from a
CD/DVD - would be to examine the HD, on one of your other computers,
using a USB dock, "cable", or housing: This _doesn't_ involve buying
hardware you won't need anyway, since if you're going to back up the
machine after you've repaired it (and all your other machines!), you'll
need the dock/"cable"/housing anyway to connect the backup drive.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder...
  #64  
Old March 17th 18, 04:42 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,216
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark

In message , HB writes:

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , HB writes:
[]
I had to pass since Linux was a 8 GB download and I don't have unlimited
ISP
service. The website didn't say what to do with it once downloaded. The
extenstion was unknown to me. The MS rescue software I downloaded did
nothing to boot the Toshiba nor did the Avira boot disk.


Was the extension .iso?


No, not ISO. I don't remember but never saw it before.

Ignore the 8 GB one.
[]
I have Ashampoo installed. I would have to go through the thumb-drives to
see what else I have saved and not installed. I personally haven't burned
a
CD or DVD in years.


If it looks like the screenshots on
https://www.ashampoo.com/uk/gbp/psr/...ng-studio-free
, then on the "Main" screen, I _suspect_ you want "Disc Image" rather than
"Burn Data"; without having it installed myself, however, I'm not sure if
Disc Image is for *making* (.iso) images *of* _existing_ CD/DVDs, or for
burning them *from* an .iso file. Try clicking on it: it should be obvious
which. (It may do both - in fact if it can take images of existing discs,
it's unlikely it can't also burn from such images.)


So the Linux PUPPY file will be what's called an ISO file? And I have to


Yes, probably.

find out if my copy of Ashampoo burns ISO files. What about Imgburn? I


"Burns _from_ ISO files" would be more precise.

think that one burns them.

ImgBurn definitely can burn from ISO files.
[]
OK... so I look for and download Linux PUPPY and burn it to a DVD. Eject


Using the burn-from-ISO option.

tray, then off the PC, insert DVD and turn the PC back on. What supposed to
happen then?

The PC should boot Linux from the CD/DVD. You will know this is
happening, as the screen will show things you haven't seen before, and
it will access the CD/DVD drive a lot (several minutes I think). Once it
_has_ booted Linux, and settled down, you should be able to use it to
examine the HD; for details of how to do that in Linux, you'll have to
get instructions from one of those here who knows Linux, which I don't.
If you get to this point, tell us: you don't have to leave the PC on
while waiting for an answer, you can turn it off at that point until
you've got the instructions - it's unlikely to corrupt the HD any more
than it already is.

Wouldn't it be easier for me to just take the HD to a shop and let them
check it? How would Linux get the Toshiba to boot since it doesn't react
to
the rescue discs? Isn't there anything smaller to give the same
information?


SHOP: Depends what relationship you have with the shop. If they're going
to charge you their standard service charge just for looking at it, then I
imagine that'd be more than the cost of the external dock (at least if
bought online) anyway. If you do get them to look at it, then there's
incentive for them to say it's duff to get you to buy a new one - I doubt,
unless it's a very good shop, that they'd recover it for you even if they
say it isn't duff: the best they're likely to do is offer to reinstall
Windows from scratch.
LINUX: the laptop should boot from a CD/DVD, provided (a) the CD has been
burned correctly (not just the .iso file written to it as data),


How is it burned properly? I am in alien terratory here. How do I know
how/where to get the PUPPY version as an ISO?


I think Paul has told you where to get it. Paul, was that an ISO you
pointed him to, or a .zip of an ISO, or something else?

and (b) the laptop's BIOS boot sequence is set to try CD/DVD first.
SMALLER: Linuxes _are_ smaller than 8G; we're not sure what it is you have
downloaded.


I didn't download it then I saw the unknown EXE.

Sorry, I don't understand that sentence )-:.
[]
How can I do it using the USB port? Where do I get a Dock?

I gave you a link in another post, though that one might have been from
China, I can't remember - I was really only looking for a picture to
show you. Your local computer shop _might_ have docks, but failing that,
put "USB dock" or similar phrases into the search box at ebay or Amazon,
and look for something that looks like the picture in the link I gave
you.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder...
  #65  
Old March 17th 18, 06:56 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
tesla sTinker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 130
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark

This sounds like the bios has skipped, forgotten its fire up drive.
When battery goes bad in them, they reset to default and when they do
that, the fire up drive is not the same anymore. Holding down the cntrl
shift and delete keys while hitting the power button may just bring you
into the bios. Then you can use the up dwn arrow keys to reset the fire
up drive which should be C:/windows This may or may not work, But if
it does not, at least you will see what your fire up drive is if you get
into the bios this way. See Toshiba as to how to do this, enter the
bios chip when you power up the machine. If this here, does not work.
The keys may be different as to which ones to hold down while hitting
the power button.

On 3/14/2018 12:20 AM, HB scribbled:
"Java wrote in message
news
On 12/03/2018 21:26, HB wrote:

"Java wrote in message

whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it
was
dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal data
being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer and a
cold chisel on a concrete floor or step.

Yes, that's what she meant. Destroy the HD.


Thought as much, but let's make sure that it really is dead before we
perform the last rites ...

But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...

It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2.
It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.


No, the technical screens come from the BIOS, which is *usually* a chip on
the motherboard, not written to the HD.


I learn something every day. Seriously.


{
Hopefully irrelevant historical note:

Having said that, about 15-20 years ago I encountered some Dell desktops
where some of the BIOS functions were combined with some Dell system
recovery functions on a hidden first partition of the HD, and if, as was
the firm's policy, you wiped the HD before putting the firm's standard
build on it, you lost that partition and thereby the ability to enter the
useful BIOS interactive GUI. I presume some BIOS functionality must have
remained, because otherwise the PCs could not have got as far as booting
the OS, but the BIOS GUI was definitely missing. Consequently, I rewrote
the scripts to leave the hidden partition in place.
}

On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know
which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063
system
unit.

I would suggest going to Toshiba's site and comparing what you have with
pictures of other models and their given designations one of which will
probably be close to the above. When dealing with problems or buying
spares, it is *nearly always important* to know exactly what it is that
you have.

This was given to us by a realtive. She said it was too slow and wanted
a
better faster newer laptop.


I'm afraid that you must learn what is useful information and what is
ot - the above is not.



What would be useful is for you to find the exact model number by
comparing what you have with information from Toshiba's website.

I could usually get rid of problems like this by accessing
safe mode and doing as System Recovery or Restore. But nothing led to
safe
mode.


What you are referring to as 'Safe Mode' is part of Windows, which you
will only reach if the HD is working.


I hear it spin up and when the PC gets hot the I can hear a fan start.


You need to get your head around how a PC boots. The processor in a PC is
built in such a way that on receiving power it goes to a particular place
in its memory to begin execution of whatever instructions it finds there.
These instructions are part of the Basic Input Output System (the BIOS
that we keep mentioning). The BIOS performs some self-diagnostic tests,
then if these are satisfactory it searches any attached media - hard
disk, CD/DVD, or USB stick, in an order that is settable within the
IOS - for an Operating System (OS) to run. Usually, as in your case, it
finds an OS on the first partition of the only HD, and, again as in your
case, it is often Windows. There is more detail on another page on my
site that describes this process.

http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/PCHa...ootProcess.htm


Interesting and informative. I'll check your site tomorrow.


Whether or not you choose to understand the details above, the important
consequence is that, if the HD has gone down, the PC can never find an OS
to run, and can never offer you Windows 'Safe Mode'.




I'll do some Googling again and see if I find anything helpful. I'm sure
a
tech would have found those screens that came up helpful. To me they may
as
well have been in Chinese.



BUT the fact that you have got into the BIOS at all does suggest that most
of the PC is functioning, and in itself that is encouraging. Next we have
to find out which part of the PC is broken, and, from what we know so far,
the hard disk does seem a likely culprit, but it would be premature to
*assume* that at this stage.


OK.


More generally, when reading technical stuff that is unfamiliar to you,
it's important to resist developing the habit of going into either panic
or glaze mode. Although officially I'm now retired, I've just spent three
days at a legacy client's configuring a cloud phone system, something
which I've never done before, and I did it successfully because I did it
step by step, trying to understand one thing at a time. You have to be
prepared to invest some time and effort in studying and trying to
understand what needs to be understood.


I agree with you completely. Glaze mode sounds familiar.


If the laptop can boot from a USB stick, then download an Ubuntu or
other
Linux distro - make sure you get a suitable one, 32-bit or 64-bit as
appropriate - install it on a 2GB or larger USB stick, depending on
the
size of the download, and see what messages Linux generates as it tries
to
boot the PC. This may give you some useful pointers to a hardware
fault.
If the PC boots from the stick, then you should see your hard disk
partition(s) as clickable icons down the left hand side menu (in Ubuntu,
other distros may be different, for example the icons may be on the
desktop). Try this and come back to us with a description of what
happens, particularly whether the PC boots at all, whether Linux lets
see
your HD at all, and even the contents of it.

OK.. will do.OS.



Have you tried this yet? If the PC can boot from a USB stick, then
hopefully all that is wrong is the HD, so then we would have to see if it
can be retrieved as a whole, or at least if your data can be retrieved
from it.


No, my job and family interfered. I have to stop and pick up a flash drive
as the ones I have don't have 2 GB of space left for this Ubantu. I assume I
just insert the flash and turn the Toshiba on and see what happens? What's
suppose to happen? I know nothing about that OS. Or I can use DVDs. Maybe
that's the better choice since there are plenty of them here. That should be
handled tomorrow. Too much coffee, not enough sleep.


IMPORTANT NOTE: You may have to master an understanding of the BIOS
sufficient to set the boot order so as to ensure that the PC will try to
boot from a USB stick, if one is present. If that is beyond you, burn the
Linux distro to a CD or DVD instead, and see if the PC will boot from
that.


F2 brought up InsydeH20 Setup Utility. I got the Boot tab where it can be
changed from HDD/SSD to FDD, LAN or USB.

The battery is still charged as it's not plugged in this time either.



  #66  
Old March 17th 18, 07:37 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
tesla sTinker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 130
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark

If the machine is not picking up the fire up drive and correct path to
start windows, all you will get is a black screen. Until you reset the
bios and the boot path for it. When a bios battery goes dead, even if
it is for only a second, it defaults its switches. Another words, it
may of defaulted back to another drive, or even if its not the drive but
the path, it still will come up blank. Until you reset the bios chip.
All computers read the bios first, at startup. Then windows powers up
according to the bios. If the path to the boot is ok that is. Use that
machines instructions of how to enter the bios. Use another computer
online to find that information. All machines have a way to enter the
bios chip. Without the correct bios, the computer has no way to know
what to do. Until you reset it. Safe mode will not even work. It has to
enter the op system first, before you can possibly use safe mode. But
what you have descriptive here, Sounds like a bad bios battery yup.

On 3/14/2018 12:20 AM, HB scribbled:
"Java wrote in message
news
On 12/03/2018 21:26, HB wrote:

"Java wrote in message

whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it
was
dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal data
being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer and a
cold chisel on a concrete floor or step.

Yes, that's what she meant. Destroy the HD.


Thought as much, but let's make sure that it really is dead before we
perform the last rites ...

But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...

It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2.
It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.


No, the technical screens come from the BIOS, which is *usually* a chip on
the motherboard, not written to the HD.


I learn something every day. Seriously.


{
Hopefully irrelevant historical note:

Having said that, about 15-20 years ago I encountered some Dell desktops
where some of the BIOS functions were combined with some Dell system
recovery functions on a hidden first partition of the HD, and if, as was
the firm's policy, you wiped the HD before putting the firm's standard
build on it, you lost that partition and thereby the ability to enter the
useful BIOS interactive GUI. I presume some BIOS functionality must have
remained, because otherwise the PCs could not have got as far as booting
the OS, but the BIOS GUI was definitely missing. Consequently, I rewrote
the scripts to leave the hidden partition in place.
}

On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know
which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063
system
unit.

I would suggest going to Toshiba's site and comparing what you have with
pictures of other models and their given designations one of which will
probably be close to the above. When dealing with problems or buying
spares, it is *nearly always important* to know exactly what it is that
you have.

This was given to us by a realtive. She said it was too slow and wanted
a
better faster newer laptop.


I'm afraid that you must learn what is useful information and what is
ot - the above is not.



What would be useful is for you to find the exact model number by
comparing what you have with information from Toshiba's website.

I could usually get rid of problems like this by accessing
safe mode and doing as System Recovery or Restore. But nothing led to
safe
mode.


What you are referring to as 'Safe Mode' is part of Windows, which you
will only reach if the HD is working.


I hear it spin up and when the PC gets hot the I can hear a fan start.


You need to get your head around how a PC boots. The processor in a PC is
built in such a way that on receiving power it goes to a particular place
in its memory to begin execution of whatever instructions it finds there.
These instructions are part of the Basic Input Output System (the BIOS
that we keep mentioning). The BIOS performs some self-diagnostic tests,
then if these are satisfactory it searches any attached media - hard
disk, CD/DVD, or USB stick, in an order that is settable within the
IOS - for an Operating System (OS) to run. Usually, as in your case, it
finds an OS on the first partition of the only HD, and, again as in your
case, it is often Windows. There is more detail on another page on my
site that describes this process.

http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/PCHa...ootProcess.htm


Interesting and informative. I'll check your site tomorrow.


Whether or not you choose to understand the details above, the important
consequence is that, if the HD has gone down, the PC can never find an OS
to run, and can never offer you Windows 'Safe Mode'.




I'll do some Googling again and see if I find anything helpful. I'm sure
a
tech would have found those screens that came up helpful. To me they may
as
well have been in Chinese.



BUT the fact that you have got into the BIOS at all does suggest that most
of the PC is functioning, and in itself that is encouraging. Next we have
to find out which part of the PC is broken, and, from what we know so far,
the hard disk does seem a likely culprit, but it would be premature to
*assume* that at this stage.


OK.


More generally, when reading technical stuff that is unfamiliar to you,
it's important to resist developing the habit of going into either panic
or glaze mode. Although officially I'm now retired, I've just spent three
days at a legacy client's configuring a cloud phone system, something
which I've never done before, and I did it successfully because I did it
step by step, trying to understand one thing at a time. You have to be
prepared to invest some time and effort in studying and trying to
understand what needs to be understood.


I agree with you completely. Glaze mode sounds familiar.


If the laptop can boot from a USB stick, then download an Ubuntu or
other
Linux distro - make sure you get a suitable one, 32-bit or 64-bit as
appropriate - install it on a 2GB or larger USB stick, depending on
the
size of the download, and see what messages Linux generates as it tries
to
boot the PC. This may give you some useful pointers to a hardware
fault.
If the PC boots from the stick, then you should see your hard disk
partition(s) as clickable icons down the left hand side menu (in Ubuntu,
other distros may be different, for example the icons may be on the
desktop). Try this and come back to us with a description of what
happens, particularly whether the PC boots at all, whether Linux lets
see
your HD at all, and even the contents of it.

OK.. will do.OS.



Have you tried this yet? If the PC can boot from a USB stick, then
hopefully all that is wrong is the HD, so then we would have to see if it
can be retrieved as a whole, or at least if your data can be retrieved
from it.


No, my job and family interfered. I have to stop and pick up a flash drive
as the ones I have don't have 2 GB of space left for this Ubantu. I assume I
just insert the flash and turn the Toshiba on and see what happens? What's
suppose to happen? I know nothing about that OS. Or I can use DVDs. Maybe
that's the better choice since there are plenty of them here. That should be
handled tomorrow. Too much coffee, not enough sleep.


IMPORTANT NOTE: You may have to master an understanding of the BIOS
sufficient to set the boot order so as to ensure that the PC will try to
boot from a USB stick, if one is present. If that is beyond you, burn the
Linux distro to a CD or DVD instead, and see if the PC will boot from
that.


F2 brought up InsydeH20 Setup Utility. I got the Boot tab where it can be
changed from HDD/SSD to FDD, LAN or USB.

The battery is still charged as it's not plugged in this time either.



  #67  
Old March 17th 18, 07:42 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
tesla sTinker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 130
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark

and the last thing \I will mention, is a bios battery is not the laptop
battery, it is a separate battery much smaller inside the machine where
it is not accessible. But still, it must be changed if it is bad. They
do not last forever those little batteries. About the size of a watch
battery.

On 3/14/2018 12:20 AM, HB scribbled:
"Java wrote in message
news
On 12/03/2018 21:26, HB wrote:

"Java wrote in message

whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it
was
dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal data
being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer and a
cold chisel on a concrete floor or step.

Yes, that's what she meant. Destroy the HD.


Thought as much, but let's make sure that it really is dead before we
perform the last rites ...

But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...

It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2.
It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.


No, the technical screens come from the BIOS, which is *usually* a chip on
the motherboard, not written to the HD.


I learn something every day. Seriously.


{
Hopefully irrelevant historical note:

Having said that, about 15-20 years ago I encountered some Dell desktops
where some of the BIOS functions were combined with some Dell system
recovery functions on a hidden first partition of the HD, and if, as was
the firm's policy, you wiped the HD before putting the firm's standard
build on it, you lost that partition and thereby the ability to enter the
useful BIOS interactive GUI. I presume some BIOS functionality must have
remained, because otherwise the PCs could not have got as far as booting
the OS, but the BIOS GUI was definitely missing. Consequently, I rewrote
the scripts to leave the hidden partition in place.
}

On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know
which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063
system
unit.

I would suggest going to Toshiba's site and comparing what you have with
pictures of other models and their given designations one of which will
probably be close to the above. When dealing with problems or buying
spares, it is *nearly always important* to know exactly what it is that
you have.

This was given to us by a realtive. She said it was too slow and wanted
a
better faster newer laptop.


I'm afraid that you must learn what is useful information and what is
ot - the above is not.



What would be useful is for you to find the exact model number by
comparing what you have with information from Toshiba's website.

I could usually get rid of problems like this by accessing
safe mode and doing as System Recovery or Restore. But nothing led to
safe
mode.


What you are referring to as 'Safe Mode' is part of Windows, which you
will only reach if the HD is working.


I hear it spin up and when the PC gets hot the I can hear a fan start.


You need to get your head around how a PC boots. The processor in a PC is
built in such a way that on receiving power it goes to a particular place
in its memory to begin execution of whatever instructions it finds there.
These instructions are part of the Basic Input Output System (the BIOS
that we keep mentioning). The BIOS performs some self-diagnostic tests,
then if these are satisfactory it searches any attached media - hard
disk, CD/DVD, or USB stick, in an order that is settable within the
IOS - for an Operating System (OS) to run. Usually, as in your case, it
finds an OS on the first partition of the only HD, and, again as in your
case, it is often Windows. There is more detail on another page on my
site that describes this process.

http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/PCHa...ootProcess.htm


Interesting and informative. I'll check your site tomorrow.


Whether or not you choose to understand the details above, the important
consequence is that, if the HD has gone down, the PC can never find an OS
to run, and can never offer you Windows 'Safe Mode'.




I'll do some Googling again and see if I find anything helpful. I'm sure
a
tech would have found those screens that came up helpful. To me they may
as
well have been in Chinese.



BUT the fact that you have got into the BIOS at all does suggest that most
of the PC is functioning, and in itself that is encouraging. Next we have
to find out which part of the PC is broken, and, from what we know so far,
the hard disk does seem a likely culprit, but it would be premature to
*assume* that at this stage.


OK.


More generally, when reading technical stuff that is unfamiliar to you,
it's important to resist developing the habit of going into either panic
or glaze mode. Although officially I'm now retired, I've just spent three
days at a legacy client's configuring a cloud phone system, something
which I've never done before, and I did it successfully because I did it
step by step, trying to understand one thing at a time. You have to be
prepared to invest some time and effort in studying and trying to
understand what needs to be understood.


I agree with you completely. Glaze mode sounds familiar.


If the laptop can boot from a USB stick, then download an Ubuntu or
other
Linux distro - make sure you get a suitable one, 32-bit or 64-bit as
appropriate - install it on a 2GB or larger USB stick, depending on
the
size of the download, and see what messages Linux generates as it tries
to
boot the PC. This may give you some useful pointers to a hardware
fault.
If the PC boots from the stick, then you should see your hard disk
partition(s) as clickable icons down the left hand side menu (in Ubuntu,
other distros may be different, for example the icons may be on the
desktop). Try this and come back to us with a description of what
happens, particularly whether the PC boots at all, whether Linux lets
see
your HD at all, and even the contents of it.

OK.. will do.OS.



Have you tried this yet? If the PC can boot from a USB stick, then
hopefully all that is wrong is the HD, so then we would have to see if it
can be retrieved as a whole, or at least if your data can be retrieved
from it.


No, my job and family interfered. I have to stop and pick up a flash drive
as the ones I have don't have 2 GB of space left for this Ubantu. I assume I
just insert the flash and turn the Toshiba on and see what happens? What's
suppose to happen? I know nothing about that OS. Or I can use DVDs. Maybe
that's the better choice since there are plenty of them here. That should be
handled tomorrow. Too much coffee, not enough sleep.


IMPORTANT NOTE: You may have to master an understanding of the BIOS
sufficient to set the boot order so as to ensure that the PC will try to
boot from a USB stick, if one is present. If that is beyond you, burn the
Linux distro to a CD or DVD instead, and see if the PC will boot from
that.


F2 brought up InsydeH20 Setup Utility. I got the Boot tab where it can be
changed from HDD/SSD to FDD, LAN or USB.

The battery is still charged as it's not plugged in this time either.



  #68  
Old March 17th 18, 08:04 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
tesla sTinker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 130
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark Punch in help windows explorer for BIOS

We set a topic for you to understand the computer bios. This is from
our laptop under the help menu in windows explorer.
BIOS: frequently asked questions

Here are answers to some common questions about basic input/output
system (BIOS).

What is BIOS?
BIOS is a program built into personal computers that starts the
operating system when you turn on your computer. It is also referred to
as system firmware. BIOS is part of your computer's hardware and is
separate from Windows.

Do I need to do anything with BIOS?
No, BIOS doesn't need to be managed and you don't need to change any
settings. Advanced users might choose to change certain settings, such
as the order the computer searches devices when starting.

What kind of BIOS does my computer have?
You can view general information about your computer's BIOS in System
Information.

Click to open System Information.

Click System Summary in the left pane, and then look under BIOS
Version/Date in the right pane to view the BIOS manufacturer, version
number, and the date the BIOS was released. For specific information
about the BIOS used by your computer, check the information that came
with your computer or go to the computer manufacturer's website.

How do CMOS and ACPI relate to BIOS?
Complementary metal oxide semiconductor (CMOS) refers to a chip inside
your computer that saves your BIOS settings. As a result, the terms CMOS
and BIOS are sometimes used interchangeably. For more information, see
What is CMOS?

Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) is an industry
standard that defines power management features and other configuration
information for computers. Some previous versions of BIOS don't support
ACPI, and so the computer might not successfully enter advanced power
modes such as sleep or hibernate. For more information, check the
information that came with your computer or go to the computer
manufacturer's website.

How do I access my computer's BIOS?
Procedures vary depending on the BIOS manufacturer. Usually, you must
press a key (such as F2, F12, Delete, or Esc) or a key combination
immediately after you turn on your computer before Windows starts. For
more information, check the information that came with your computer or
go to the computer manufacturer's website.

How do I update BIOS?
Procedures vary depending on the BIOS manufacturer. If you think you
need to update your BIOS, check the information that came with your
computer or go to the computer manufacturer's website.

Warning
Be careful when changing BIOS settings. The BIOS interface is designed
for advanced users, and it's possible to change a setting that could
prevent your computer from starting correctly.

Updating BIOS should only be done if necessary (to solve a compatibility
problem, for example). It can be a complicated process, and if an error
occurs, your computer could be rendered inoperable. Be sure to follow
the manufacturer's instructions exactly.




On 3/9/2018 11:15 PM, HB scribbled:
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?

Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.

I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.



  #69  
Old March 17th 18, 09:05 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,859
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark

HB wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message
news
HB wrote:

I had to pass since Linux was a 8 GB download and I don't have unlimited
ISP service.

Wrong Wrong Wrong.

Tell me what you want to experiment with, and I'll
tell you the size.

For example, if you picked Puppy, it *definitely* isn't 8GB.

The website didn't say what to do with it once downloaded. The
extenstion was unknown to me.

Quite true.

Again, if we know what you downloaded, we can help you


So I download Lynux "puppy" and burn it to a DVD and it will boot the
Toshiba unless ther HD is toast? I don't have to worry about the strange
extension? There is no other software out there anyone knows about that
would boot the PC?

If if does nothing what does that mean?


In this case, we might be burning a Linux DVD, because we can't
get our hands on a Windows DVD to boot with. The Windows DVD would
have CHKDSK, diskpart, and so on. Linux doesn't have a CHKDSK for
NTFS.

And Puppy was purely an illustration of a small one.

Puppy is for year 2000 computers. The old kernel and old drivers
are a good match for the old computers involved.

FatDog64 is a 64-bit distro, where the kernel version is a bit
later, and that one matches my newer machine better. And it's
still a small download (smaller than a CD size download).

But for a relatively wide selection of packages, then Ubuntu
is also a choice. At around 1.5GB for the download.

There's no need, typically, to be selecting a 3.5GB Linux
distro. There are some, but the software included on them
is too obscure to justify the download. Packages can be
added to a distro, once booted and online for example.

The purpose of booting with Linux, is to get a second
opinion on hardware health. Does the computer boot ?
If I use SmartMonTools, what does SMART say ? The hard
drives have names like "sda", "sdb", "sdc"...

sudo smartctl -a /dev/sdc

ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 092 092 036 Pre-fail Always - 334

You run commands like that from a Terminal. Click the
"dash" search icon (might be upper-left) and type
Terminal to open a terminal. Then type

smartctl

to see if the executable is available. If the executable
is not present, the OS will tell you the command to use
to make the software download.

Things like the "Software" icon, have a Repository setup
in them, with "Universe" and "Multiverse" buttons. For
some software downloads, you have to make sure those are
turned on first.


*******

Meanwhile, this is for ISO files. It makes bootable DVDs from them.


So the Linux PUPPY files will be turned into ISO files able to boot
computers that can't load their OSs?


Linux distros ship as ISO files. An ISO file is an "image" of
an entire DVD. Burning software is supposed to know that it
copies the image, sector for sector, to the optical media. You
don't "drag and drop" an ISO onto a DVD. The burning program
recognizes the ISO is an archive of sorts, that represents
a DVD, and burns it as such. It copies the sectors over, out
of the ISO, to the DVD surface. It doesn't work at file system level.
The process required is *not the same as Windows drag-and-drop*.


http://www.oldversion.com/windows/do...mgburn-2-5-0-0

2.5.0.0_SetupImgBurn_2.5.0.0.exe 2,169,915 bytes Jul 26, 2009
CRC32: 39CD6FC6
MD5: F3791CFACDAC03B9E676E44AA2630243
SHA-1: E07BCC23B495D0A966BAE359EA9E0E3A11888454

The download button for that is green in color and says:

+-----------------------------------------------+
| Download Now | |
| | |
| V |
| |
| Tested: Free from spyware, adware and viruses |
+-----------------------------------------------+


Once a program like this is installed, when you double-click
an ISO, Imgburn should open.

Imgburn has six buttons in the window. You want the upper-left button.

https://cdn.ghacks.net/wp-content/up...burn_a_dvd.jpg

In the window that opens, there is an icon to "add an ISO" to
the burn queue. There is a green "+" to the right of
"Please select a file". You select an ISO you want made
into a boot-able CD/DVD. While this page has lots
of confusing dialog boxes, just the defaults should
do a good job of burning the disc. Since the verify
tick box is selected by default, after the burn is
finished, the optical drive tray will "open and close"
before the verify begins. Don't panic if you hear the
drive door opening. It's the step just before
verify starts.

http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?/...re-in-imgburn/

Also, turn down the audio volume on your computer speakers,
as the "done tone" the program uses, will scare the
crap out of you. The Imgburn author has a wicked
sense of humor. You can modify the audio behavior
in the Preferences, but usually only after having
the crap scared out of you :-)

No bootable CD, is perfect for every kind of maintenance
a person might want to do. People collect various CDs
and add them to their collection, to do various
kinds of maintenance. Just getting a CD to boot, is
a way of verifying the computer "is worth keeping".
If you can't get it to boot, or if there are
obvious crash symptoms with two OSes (the original OS
and the test CD), then you would begin to suspect a
hardware issue (bad RAM, bad CPU, bad power, and so on).

Paul
  #70  
Old March 17th 18, 09:26 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,859
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark

HB wrote:
"Brian Gregory" wrote in message
...
On 15/03/2018 07:22, HB wrote:
This is another concern of mine. I not only didn't get CDs with the last
2
PCs, but no nag screens either. How do I make a bootable disc for them or
one of these "images"? One is a Tablet w/W-10 and the other a Notebook
w/W-10. I have nothing in case one goes dark on me. The one before
these
is a HP laptop and I followed the directons and the info was copied onto
a
Thumbdrive. But can that $900 dollar PC boot from it? I have no idea.
There
was no info as to what to do with the thumbdrive if the computer crashed.

https://support.toshiba.com/repair


In reading the site the PC is out of warranty and isn't W-8.

Scroll down to Get Recovery Media.


Recovery media is only stocked at OEMs for the
warranty period. If a laptop releases in 2010, you
expect the OEM to have media (discs in a bag) from 2010-2013.

Sometimes, bags of media are acquired by jobbers,
who sell the media for $50 a set. Until they run out.
From maybe 2013-2015, you might get the media from
a third party.

Other than that, there is Microsoft as a source of
installer DVDs. But the current download site requires
a *retail* license key. And the alternative sources
at the moment are broken. (DigitalRiver closed years
ago, and the Heidoc tool is broken on Win7 right now.)
That leaves torrents of MSDN discs as the last remaining
source. Which is fine, as long as you have SHA1 or SHA256
checksums for the resulting ISO files, to verify them with.

If you have at least one retail license key for Windows 7,
you should be able to get any version of Win7 you want
as an ISO. In many cases, the ISO has multiple OS versions
on it, and by editing ei.cfg, you can even cause
them to show up as a menu choice. Since the many "versions"
of an OS are almost identical, you can overlay the images
on the DVD and store a ton of them.

https://s13.postimg.org/pwmlcxkh3/mu...installers.gif

Paul
  #71  
Old March 17th 18, 12:25 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
HB[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 172
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark


"Paul" wrote in message
news
HB wrote:


Ubantu was an 8 GB download I don't have unlimited download data with
Verizon. It didn't look like anything that would boot a PC in the LT's
condition. There would be no way to execute it.


ubuntu-17.10-desktop-amd64.iso 1,501,102,080 bytes

You need a USB stick larger than that to hold it.

The distro called "UbuntuStudio" is larger than that,
because it contains all sorts of Audio Workstation applications.
I have a studio version here that is "2,752,020,480 bytes"
but you don't use that for working on busted laptops.

The above 1.5GB number is a rough idea of what
a typical Ubuntu download will cost you.

It's *not* an 8GB download.

Distros generally try to stay below the limits of a single layer DVD.

*******

The absolutely largest distro I've got here as an
ISO, is 4,641,318,912 bytes. It was made in the year
2007, and was an attempt by the FOSS community to impress
people with "how much free software there is". It's
like one of those 10,000 font "font collections" :-)
I would think it's getting close to the limits of
a single layer DVD and that's why they made it
that particular size.

The Gentoo folks made a 3GB one, whose main claim to fame
was the number of drivers on it. It had so many drivers,
it would take between 3 to 4 minutes to boot (it tries
all the drivers one at a time, turfing the ones not needed).
An exercise in futility.

So some of the latests "whales" were a kind of bloated
advertising. The "reasonable" choices can be between
CD size and 1.5GB.

If you don't own a DVD burner, use this.

https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=fatdog


I have a burner available. Thanks.


Fatdog64-721.iso 2018-Jan-11 09:13:13 387MB
application/octet-stream

That's like Puppy, but for more modern (64bit capable) machines.

But don't blame me if that doesn't have a nice
package manager and tool set. At least it fits on
a CD and would be suitable for a very quick "boot test".

Paul



  #72  
Old March 17th 18, 01:16 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
HB[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 172
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark


"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
As usual, there may appear to be a lot here, but the three big chunks are
_alternatives_.


In message , HB writes:

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...

[]
Inside the desktop machine, does its own hard drive also have two small
connectors, or a wide ribbon cable with about 40 wires? Or, does its
CD/DVD drive? If both of those are connected with wide ribbon cables,
read
no further, as we'll have to use the USB route (which isn't difficult).


I don't know because I never opened it. The last HP DT had the wide
ribbon
cable. Then let's use the USB route because I really don't want to start
messing around iside the DT box.


OK. Notes on USB method follow lower.

I tried using a Rescue disc my son made a
few years ago. Nothing happened. I downloaded something from the net, a
MS
repair disc and that didn't work either.


I suspect two possibilities he either you (or your son) didn't burn the
CDs in the correct way that makes them bootable, or you didn't set the
boot order in the laptop so that it booted from them.


Probably, since there was no info involved on how to burn the DVDs. I guess
the site assumed everyone who would download them would know. As for making
DVDs from the PCs - there was just the MS popup or whatever it's called
about making the DVDs or TDs. I don't know why they bother having people
make useless DVDs if they don't boot the PC involved or explain how to do
it.


Ubantu was an 8 GB download I don't have unlimited download data with


See Paul's posts; UbUntu apparently isn't that big, nor any other Linux
available at the moment; they're all under a single-layer DVD's worth (4
point something G), some under a CD's worth.


I guess the download site was wrong. I took one look at the size and left
the site. Any Idea what to Google to find the smallest one to download that
may boot the Toshiba? This is frustrating beyond belief trying to do this
sight unseen, never watcing someone do it.


Verizon. It didn't look like anything that would boot a PC in the LT's
condition. There would be no way to execute it.


If the CD/DVD is burned properly, and the BIOS in the LT set to boot from
the CD/DVD drive, then it should boot and load; it loads into RAM, and
runs from there.
[]
To access the LT HD from another computer via USB, you'll need a USB (or
eSATA, but only if all your computers have an eSATA socket) interface.


I wouldn't know what they have.


This is something you should get anyway, for future backup purposes.
(Along with, obviously, a drive big enough to hold several backup images
from your various computers. As you've discovered, System Restore is no
good if the drive dies, or if its files get corrupted sufficient that it
won't boot even as far as safe mode.) So getting it - whichever of the
three options you choose - isn't wasted money, even if we do find the LT
drive is faulty.


How would they be set to replace the image of Windows OS and your files
should the BSOD happen to the PC? I can't find any way to do it with the
external Seagate I have. I'm not technically orientated at all. Every time
I plug it into the USB drive it loads the DT will all kinds of crap I no
longer even care about and have deleted from the PC. It took a few hours to
delete the unwanted crap from the Seagate. I don't bother with it anymore.
Why it puts hundreds of things on the DT is a mystery to me.


I know nothing of eSATA, so what follows is just USB. And prices are
probably wrong (I'm in the UK, so don't know my way round ebay USA [I
assume you're in USA]), so I'm really just providing these as links so you
can look at the pictures.

There are roughly three sorts of USB interface, though presumably they
mostly have similar electronics in them. For future-proofing you'd go for
ones that have USB3, but USB2 would be fine, just slower; it's likely that
at least some if not all of your other computers won't have USB3 anyway.
(If you do pay the extra for USB3, it should _work_ with USB2 computers,
just at USB2 speed. Though 3 is tending to come as standard now anyway so
_may_ not cost more.) With all three types, when you put the drive into
them, apply power to them, and connect them to the PC you are going to
use, the drive in the interface should appear on that PC just as another
drive letter in Windows Explorer (or letters if it has more than one
partition, other than hidden partitions). [It _won't_ appear as C: - that
computer's own drive will be C.] Just like plugging in a memory stick or
card. It should also appear under the utility - either Windows' own or any
other, such as EaseUS - that sorts out partitions (where you _should_ be
able to see any hidden ones).


When the TD is plugged it is shows below C: and D: with a list of folders if
they were sent to it.


Right, the three alternatives:

The best (IMO) for general work is a dock; this is a thing that sits on
your desk, comes with its own power supply, and connects to a PC via a USB
lead; it has one or more slots on top, into which you insert the drive(s)
you want to access. This is the model I have:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/202052568442 - it does both IDE and SATA drives
(and has a card reader in it too, though I've never used it), and comes -
as you can see - with a power supply and USB lead. (And the little CD, but
I've never had to use that; it just worked as soon as I connected it up.)
It seems to be a common model. I paid something like twentysomething
pounds at a computer fair, and have seen them for 15 or 16 pounds online.
You should be able to find a US seller: I just picked that one as it has a
nice clear picture. Although one of the pictures shows 3.5" drives in it,
it takes 2.5" ones just as well. Look at all the pictures.

The next option is a "USB to SATA cable"; despite just being called a
cable, these do have electronics in them, though built into the plug, so
it's not obvious. Personally, I'd go for one like this
https://www.ebay.com/itm/172256326228 which can do IDE _and_ SATA and
comes with a power supply and all necessary cables (you want the SATA
[red] one and the power adapter one, as well as the USB "cable" itself) -
look at all the pictures; however, if you must save every dollar (I've
seen kits like the above for 5 or 6 pounds), just put "USB to SATA" into
ebay and you'll find hundreds of cables that just use USB power. If you go
for one of those, make sure it's one that has _two_ USB plugs (as the
power available from a single one may not be sufficient for the drive,
especially initial spinup).

The third option is an external housing - this sort of thing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/112652273779 - last time I was involved in buying
one it was about 2 pounds, yes even including the little screwdriver and
the pouch! (I think ours had black rather than transparent ends.) Again,
make sure the USB cable has two plugs at the computer end.

If you already have an external drive, you may be able to temporarily take
out the drive that's in it and fit your suspect one in its place.


I have an external Seagate which appears to be sealed. I don't see how the
HD itself can be removed.

Honestly, working on these computers isn't my thing. No one can remember
all this info. My time, my funds and my download data are limited which
doesn't help. I never though it would be this time consuming to try and
get the LT going again. So involved and so complicated. I was hoping
someone here knew a site to maybe download info for a reascue disc.
Something I could burn to a CD and see if I could get to Restore or do a
Recovery.

It's not that I don't ppreciate the info and help offered here, it's that I
never knew something like this could be so complicated and time consuming.



I'm the oldest woman on primetime not baking cakes.
- Anne Robinson, RT 2015/8/15-21



  #73  
Old March 17th 18, 01:39 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
HB[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 172
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark


"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , "
writes:

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , HB writes:


Brevity snip

(-:
[]
This is another concern of mine. I not only didn't get CDs with the
last
2
PCs, but no nag screens either. How do I make a bootable disc for them
or
one of these "images"?




Assuming they _have_ the ability to make one, the way to do so will vary
from make to make and probably model to model. Get the manual (if you
didn't get one with, and you may well not have, it should be
downloadable
as a .pdf [usually] from the manufacturer's website), and - if it isn't
obvious from the contents list - search it for the word recovery or
emergency.


Looks like I found it. I'll be making some DVDs later tonight for this HP
W-10 Notebook.


Good. Though remember that they _might_ only give you the option of
returning to as-new, so continue to certainly back up your data, and
ideally also image your C:.


I assume the C: drive is imaged when the Recovery Discs or TDs are made. Is
it? It's inventory time were I live here so the store didn't have any
larger TDs. They let the stock run down. I'd rather put the info on TDs than
CDs. Maybe I'll just go ahead and use the DVDs. There are stacks of them
here. Now to find the time.


Back to the Toshiba.

[]
The Toshiba is W-7, also has Classic Shell installed, is dead in the
water.
All I can get is the F12 screen that is basically useless at this point.


Yes, obviously to get any sort of shell, the system has to load from the
hard disc.
[]
I wish I had one of those. I never thought to look for a way to make a
rescue or boot disk for the Toshiba.


Assuming we get it working, I imagine you now _will_ look for it. But
still:

On the whole, I think a third-party imaging tool, Like Macrium or
Acronis
(both free), with the boot CD they allow you to make, along with just
copying (or using something like SyncToy), is better. (I image C: and
any
hidden partitions, and just copy/sync. my D: [data] partition.) The
reason
being that these restore everything exactly how you had it - including
all
the software you've installed, including all the tweaks to both the OS
and
the software you've done over the years; whereas using recovery tools
_can_ alter things, in the extreme returning to as-new, losing all your
software (and possibly data). You put the image - and data copy - on an
external disc.


I remember having something like that years ago. But when the black screen
with the blinker occured, it didn't work. Nothing worked. There was no
way
to make the PC SEE the drive and respond. It didn't work as advertised.
I


When you say no way to make it see the drive, I suspect _either_ you
haven't set it to boot from the CD/DVD drive before the hard drive, _or_
you haven't burned the DVDs in the correct manner that makes them
bootable.


I don't recall having a choice to make them bootable. I just followed the
prompts. What would the correct manner be?


As an outside possibility, the HD could be so badly faulty that just by
being there, it's stopping the PC working properly at all - overloading
the power supply, or something. But I think this is highly unlikely, since
you have (sometimes!) seen the BIOS boot screens. Nevertheless, you can
_try_ booting (powering on) the PC with the hard disc removed, and one of
the bootable CDs (a Windows 7 disc, a Windows 7 recovery disc, a Linux
self-boot disc, a Macrium or Acronis disc, ...) in the DVD drive: you
wouldn't be able to repair the HD, but that should at least show whether
the HD was faulty enough to prevent booting. But I don't think that is the
case - I think the reason it's not booting from one of those DVDs is one
(or both) of the reasons in the above paragraph.


I honestly don't remember any more since it was some years ago. As I recall
one was a XP and the other the Vista.


may as well have inserted a pancake in the drive. I have everything of
value
on the Toshiba saved to a thumbdrive. I need some kind of emergency boot
disc for the Toshiba but was unable to find anything online to download
and
burn to a DC or DVD. I'm going to check these two out later. Macrium and
Acronis.


Although they make a bootable disc, that disc is intended to be used to
(either make or restore from) an image; if you don't have such an image to
restore from, booting from a Macrium (or Acronis0 disc won't get you
anywhere.


I have no image of the drive and no knowledge of how to make one.


When you say you have "everything of value" saved, you mean presumably all
that _you_ have created, which most people call your data. As you've
discovered, the OS is also of value. Making an image with Macrium (of C:
and any hidden partitions) would allow you to restore, either to the
existing disc if it's OK hardware-wise or to a new one if you have to buy
a new one. the system to exactly as it was when you made the image.
Without such an image, you have to reinstall the OS, and any software, and
get all the updates that have come out since the disc you reinstall it
from was made, and do all the tweaks to both the OS and any installed
software to get them back how you had them - which for me would be hours
or most likely days of work, so is also IMO "of value".


How difficult is it to make an Image of the HD?

You need somewhere to store the image of course. I use an external HD (I
store images from more than one PC on it); a thumbdrive might do, though I
wouldn't trust one for backups. (I back up my "data" to it too.)


I have the external Seagate but never understood how to use it for an image.
It's loaded with trash I don't even want anymore. I dread plugging it in
because it loads this PC up with trash long deleted. There doesn't seem to
be any way to tell it I don't it putting stuff on my PC.


One is a Tablet w/W-10 and the other a Notebook
w/W-10. I have nothing in case one goes dark on me. The one before
these


I know little about tablets; if you even can make recovery software for
those, I don't know how you'd use it, as they don't have an optical
drive.
The notebook I assume _does_ have such a drive.


The Tablet has a USB port. The Notebook the usual optical drive.


Some tablets have a strange sort of USB port. Perhaps one that runs W10
_would_ have hardware that can boot from it, so that might be OK. The
notebook should be OK.
[]
I imagine you turn it on with the thumbdrive plugged in. You might have
to
amend the boot order in the BIOS so that it boots from USB first. $900
sounds a lot for a laptop - or even a desktop for that matter!


It's a HP I bought 2 or 3 years ago mainly for the kids since it has some
kind of special sofware that makes it very fast. It was recommended for
gamers. I got it at Best Buy. It has 12GBs memory and a 1TB HD. They love
it.


Lucky kids!


Kids! That's why funds are tight. :^)




  #74  
Old March 17th 18, 01:47 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
HB[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 172
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark


"Brian Gregory" wrote in message
...
On 15/03/2018 07:22, HB wrote:
This is another concern of mine. I not only didn't get CDs with the last
2
PCs, but no nag screens either. How do I make a bootable disc for them or
one of these "images"? One is a Tablet w/W-10 and the other a Notebook
w/W-10. I have nothing in case one goes dark on me. The one before
these
is a HP laptop and I followed the directons and the info was copied onto
a
Thumbdrive. But can that $900 dollar PC boot from it? I have no idea.
There
was no info as to what to do with the thumbdrive if the computer crashed.


https://support.toshiba.com/repair

Scroll down to Get Recovery Media.


Thanks. That would be nice but it rejects the Serial number on the Toshiba.
After entering it at least 4 times I gave up.


--

Brian Gregory (in England).



  #75  
Old March 17th 18, 01:58 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
HB[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 172
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark


"Paul" wrote in message
news
HB wrote:
"Brian Gregory" wrote in message
...
On 15/03/2018 07:22, HB wrote:
This is another concern of mine. I not only didn't get CDs with the
last 2
PCs, but no nag screens either. How do I make a bootable disc for them
or
one of these "images"? One is a Tablet w/W-10 and the other a Notebook
w/W-10. I have nothing in case one goes dark on me. The one before
these
is a HP laptop and I followed the directons and the info was copied
onto a
Thumbdrive. But can that $900 dollar PC boot from it? I have no idea.
There
was no info as to what to do with the thumbdrive if the computer
crashed.
https://support.toshiba.com/repair


In reading the site the PC is out of warranty and isn't W-8.

Scroll down to Get Recovery Media.


Recovery media is only stocked at OEMs for the
warranty period. If a laptop releases in 2010, you
expect the OEM to have media (discs in a bag) from 2010-2013.

Sometimes, bags of media are acquired by jobbers,
who sell the media for $50 a set. Until they run out.
From maybe 2013-2015, you might get the media from
a third party.

Other than that, there is Microsoft as a source of
installer DVDs. But the current download site requires
a *retail* license key. And the alternative sources
at the moment are broken. (DigitalRiver closed years
ago, and the Heidoc tool is broken on Win7 right now.)
That leaves torrents of MSDN discs as the last remaining
source. Which is fine, as long as you have SHA1 or SHA256
checksums for the resulting ISO files, to verify them with.


I have no idea what they are. The key number of the Toshiba is on the back.
I don't know if it's a retail key or not. It says product key.


If you have at least one retail license key for Windows 7,
you should be able to get any version of Win7 you want
as an ISO. In many cases, the ISO has multiple OS versions
on it, and by editing ei.cfg, you can even cause
them to show up as a menu choice. Since the many "versions"
of an OS are almost identical, you can overlay the images
on the DVD and store a ton of them.


Right over my head.


https://s13.postimg.org/pwmlcxkh3/mu...installers.gif

Paul



 




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