XP still available (new) without SP2?

I'm hoping you might provide some direction here, with regard to SP2.
My sister's PC has been nothing but trouble since SP2 was installed -
to the point she went out and bought parts for a new system, and a new
OEM copy of XP home so she could get rid of SP2. I assembled her new
system, and installed the OS - unfortunately this CD comes with SP2
included, and did not provide any option during installation to
deselect SP2. Is there any work around, or should she be looking for
an older copy of XP? I'd be fine with buying her new copy and
upgrading my own (win98SE) PC so she can buy what she needs - but is
it even available new without SP2?

I can't give specifics on the problems SP2 is causing, but it seems to
relate primarily with the online game Everquest 2 by Sony; it has
been unplayable, with system freezing, BSOD, spontaneous reboots, slow
game performance (when it will work at all)...

She's tried disabling SP2's firewall, uninstalling SP2, updating video
drivers - etc with no positive results. The most frequent advice from
other gamers is to wipe the drive and reinstall XP (without SP2) - but
that's not really an option for her at this point, since she has
important business apps and data on her drive that she can't risk
losing or even being without for a day or two.

Note - to reply by email, please reformat the addressee (should be pretty obvious)

In ,
typed:

I'm hoping you might provide some direction here, with regard
to SP2.
My sister's PC has been nothing but trouble since SP2 was
installed -
to the point she went out and bought parts for a new system,
and a new
OEM copy of XP home so she could get rid of SP2.


Wow! Talk about overkill! Why didn't she (or you) come here to
ask for help before taking such a drastic step? Almost certainly
her problems could have been solved without spending any money.


I assembled her new
system, and installed the OS - unfortunately this CD comes with
SP2
included, and did not provide any option during installation to
deselect SP2.


Most CDs that are now available now come with SP2. If it does
come with it, it's never optional.


Is there any work around,


No.


or should she be looking for
an older copy of XP?


Neither. She should just install it *with* SP2. Doing a clean
installation with it will probably not result in the problems she
had earlier, which were likely caused by all te spyware she had
on her machine.


I'd be fine with buying her new copy and
upgrading my own (win98SE) PC


No, you wouldn't. OEM copies can not be used to perform upgrades.


so she can buy what she needs - but is
it even available new without SP2?


Probably, if you look hard enough. But most copies you will find
now will include it.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup



I can't give specifics on the problems SP2 is causing, but it
seems to
relate primarily with the online game Everquest 2 by Sony; it
has
been unplayable, with system freezing, BSOD, spontaneous
reboots, slow
game performance (when it will work at all)...

She's tried disabling SP2's firewall, uninstalling SP2,
updating video
drivers - etc with no positive results. The most frequent
advice from
other gamers is to wipe the drive and reinstall XP (without
SP2) - but
that's not really an option for her at this point, since she
has
important business apps and data on her drive that she can't
risk
losing or even being without for a day or two.

Note - to reply by email, please reformat the addressee (should
be
pretty obvious)

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 17:19:30 -0700, "Ken Blake"
wrote:

In ,
typed:

I'm hoping you might provide some direction here, with regard
to SP2.
My sister's PC has been nothing but trouble since SP2 was
installed -
to the point she went out and bought parts for a new system,
and a new
OEM copy of XP home so she could get rid of SP2.


Wow! Talk about overkill! Why didn't she (or you) come here to
ask for help before taking such a drastic step? Almost certainly
her problems could have been solved without spending any money.


She's asked, searched, tried everything anyone could suggest - there
was no fixing it short of reinstalling, and as I said that is not an
option

I assembled her new
system, and installed the OS - unfortunately this CD comes with
SP2
included, and did not provide any option during installation to
deselect SP2.


Most CDs that are now available now come with SP2. If it does
come with it, it's never optional.


Is there any work around,


No.


or should she be looking for
an older copy of XP?


Neither. She should just install it *with* SP2. Doing a clean
installation with it will probably not result in the problems she
had earlier, which were likely caused by all te spyware she had
on her machine.

Well, perhaps I wasn't clear on that; I did install it with SP2, and
it functions no better than her old machine as far as her games!

I'd be fine with buying her new copy and
upgrading my own (win98SE) PC


No, you wouldn't. OEM copies can not be used to perform upgrades.

Miscommunication here - I'm well aware I can't upgrade; what I meant
was upgrade in the sense of replacing 98, which has pretty much
reached the end of its useful life since MS will no longer be
supplying security patches for it. Fortunately for me, I don't run a
business and have no problem wiping my drives and starting over.

so she can buy what she needs - but is
it even available new without SP2?


Probably, if you look hard enough. But most copies you will find
now will include it.

Fair enough; used it is then.

I hope I'm not sounding too bitter about this whole thing - I seem to
have gotten your irish up a bit here. Let me say that I've been
monitoring the win98 groups for many years, and have gotten excellent
advice many times - and even (hopefully) given some from time to time.
I very much appreciate the effort you gurus put in here helping the
more obtuse among us. As for MS, I've been a loyal customer since
windows 3.0, and I truly believe its the best OS available for PC. I
also recognize that SP2 is an excellent product for probably 95% of
those who've applied it, and addresses some serious issues - I'm not
knocking it. It does, however, create problems for the remaining 5%,
and that's only to be expected; there are always a few glitches with
any software. All I know is that for many serious online gamers, its
a real issue; I'm not blaming MS for that - I don't think its
reasonable to expect 100% success - I'm just saying it worked great
before SP2, and works lousy or not at all after SP2. To me the
obvious solution in this case is to go back to what worked, until
either MS or Sony addresses the issue. So far, neither is even
admitting there is any issue - but that isn't fixing my problem g.

Who knows - perhaps the root cause is neither - perhaps its her
hardware firewall that doesn't play well with SP2, or her anti virus;
the thing is, she's been an avid gamer for years, and has been shut
out of her game since last summer over this. At this point she'd
cheerfully throw the whole kit and caboodle in the dumpster if not for
the business needs. To me, a clean installation without SP2 is a good
option if it solves the problem, and the new sytem is just a bonus
(but her old PC was only just within specs for the game anyway, and
would have to be upgraded in the near future) - mostly on the off
chance it was a hardware issue, like video card or drivers. The new
machine has a different brand of video (ATI Radeon), new SATA drive,
new everything, and it didn't solve anything. I think at least we've
ruled out hardware.
Note - to reply by email, please reformat the addressee (should be pretty obvious)

In ,
typed:

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 17:19:30 -0700, "Ken Blake"
wrote:

In ,
typed:

I'd be fine with buying her new copy and
upgrading my own (win98SE) PC


No, you wouldn't. OEM copies can not be used to perform
upgrades.

Miscommunication here - I'm well aware I can't upgrade; what I
meant
was upgrade in the sense of replacing 98, which has pretty much
reached the end of its useful life since MS will no longer be
supplying security patches for it. Fortunately for me, I don't
run a
business and have no problem wiping my drives and starting
over.


OK, but you still have a problem. The licensing agreement for an
OEM version restricts it to the first computer it's installed on.
It can never be moved to another.


so she can buy what she needs - but is
it even available new without SP2?


Probably, if you look hard enough. But most copies you will
find
now will include it.

Fair enough; used it is then.

I hope I'm not sounding too bitter about this whole thing - I
seem to
have gotten your irish up a bit here.


No, not at all, and I apologize if I came across that way.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup

Hi, Trumpet.

After reading the thread thus far, I agree with Ken Blake's comments. It
seems to me that it would take at least as much effort for your sister to
revert to pre-SP2 WinXP as it would for her to actually solve the problem
and move forward rather than backwards. Without SP2, she would again be at
the mercy of all the viruses and other malware that SP2 thwarts.

It might help if you tell us the make and model of her computer and the
important components (video, sound, RAM, etc.). A few CPUs (Intel's
Prescott P4s, for example) have or had SP2 conflicts way down deep in the
microcode. (If I sound like I know what I'm talking about, don't be fooled.
It's just that I've read lots of threads by the big boys who do understand
it.) If your sister's CPU is one of those, somebody here should be able to
point her to a solution pretty quickly.

Your original post said:
"The most frequent advice from other gamers is to wipe the drive and
reinstall XP (without SP2) - but that's not really an option for her at this
point, since she has important business apps and data on her drive that she
can't risk losing or even being without for a day or two."


She's asked, searched, tried everything anyone could suggest - there
was no fixing it short of reinstalling, and as I said that is not an
option

First, who is "anyone"?

Second, if reinstalling is her only option, has she considered an "in-place
upgrade"? This reinstalls WinXP itself, but preserves existing applications
and data. For instructions, read either Microsoft's official version or the
version written by MVP Michael Stevens:

How to perform an in-place upgrade (reinstallation) of Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default...;en-us;q315341

How to Perform a Windows XP Repair Install
http://michaelstevenstech.com/XPrepairinstall.htm

Use an upgrade or "full" retail (not OEM, for the reasons Ken mentioned)
WinXP CD-ROM with SP2 included. As those references say, boot from the CD,
bypass the first R-for-Repair by pressing Enter to Install, then elect to
Repair the existing WinXP. It will take about as long as a fresh install of
WinXP itself, but she should not need to reinstall her business apps or
data. Of course, power failures and other accidents do happen so a backup
is always a good idea, but I have yet to see a report that the in-place
upgrade caused loss of apps or data.

It's best to do the reinstall (or a fresh install) with only essential
peripherals connected. After WinXP is up and running right, add the other
periphs and reboot to let WinXP detect them and install the native drivers.
Then visit each hardware manufacturer's website to make sure you have the
latest and greatest driver for each device; those on the WinXP CD-ROM may be
slightly out of date by now. It's probably best to uninstall her antivirus
and anti-spyware applications, too, before the reinstall of WinXP, then
install them again afterwards - but BEFORE going back online! Users have
reported that their unprotected computers were infected within minutes of
going online.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 17:19:30 -0700, "Ken Blake"
wrote:

In ,
typed:

I'm hoping you might provide some direction here, with regard
to SP2.
My sister's PC has been nothing but trouble since SP2 was
installed -
to the point she went out and bought parts for a new system,
and a new
OEM copy of XP home so she could get rid of SP2.


Wow! Talk about overkill! Why didn't she (or you) come here to
ask for help before taking such a drastic step? Almost certainly
her problems could have been solved without spending any money.


She's asked, searched, tried everything anyone could suggest - there
was no fixing it short of reinstalling, and as I said that is not an
option

I assembled her new
system, and installed the OS - unfortunately this CD comes with
SP2
included, and did not provide any option during installation to
deselect SP2.


Most CDs that are now available now come with SP2. If it does
come with it, it's never optional.


Is there any work around,


No.


or should she be looking for
an older copy of XP?


Neither. She should just install it *with* SP2. Doing a clean
installation with it will probably not result in the problems she
had earlier, which were likely caused by all te spyware she had
on her machine.

Well, perhaps I wasn't clear on that; I did install it with SP2, and
it functions no better than her old machine as far as her games!

I'd be fine with buying her new copy and
upgrading my own (win98SE) PC


No, you wouldn't. OEM copies can not be used to perform upgrades.

Miscommunication here - I'm well aware I can't upgrade; what I meant
was upgrade in the sense of replacing 98, which has pretty much
reached the end of its useful life since MS will no longer be
supplying security patches for it. Fortunately for me, I don't run a
business and have no problem wiping my drives and starting over.

so she can buy what she needs - but is
it even available new without SP2?


Probably, if you look hard enough. But most copies you will find
now will include it.

Fair enough; used it is then.

I hope I'm not sounding too bitter about this whole thing - I seem to
have gotten your irish up a bit here. Let me say that I've been
monitoring the win98 groups for many years, and have gotten excellent
advice many times - and even (hopefully) given some from time to time.
I very much appreciate the effort you gurus put in here helping the
more obtuse among us. As for MS, I've been a loyal customer since
windows 3.0, and I truly believe its the best OS available for PC. I
also recognize that SP2 is an excellent product for probably 95% of
those who've applied it, and addresses some serious issues - I'm not
knocking it. It does, however, create problems for the remaining 5%,
and that's only to be expected; there are always a few glitches with
any software. All I know is that for many serious online gamers, its
a real issue; I'm not blaming MS for that - I don't think its
reasonable to expect 100% success - I'm just saying it worked great
before SP2, and works lousy or not at all after SP2. To me the
obvious solution in this case is to go back to what worked, until
either MS or Sony addresses the issue. So far, neither is even
admitting there is any issue - but that isn't fixing my problem g.

Who knows - perhaps the root cause is neither - perhaps its her
hardware firewall that doesn't play well with SP2, or her anti virus;
the thing is, she's been an avid gamer for years, and has been shut
out of her game since last summer over this. At this point she'd
cheerfully throw the whole kit and caboodle in the dumpster if not for
the business needs. To me, a clean installation without SP2 is a good
option if it solves the problem, and the new sytem is just a bonus
(but her old PC was only just within specs for the game anyway, and
would have to be upgraded in the near future) - mostly on the off
chance it was a hardware issue, like video card or drivers. The new
machine has a different brand of video (ATI Radeon), new SATA drive,
new everything, and it didn't solve anything. I think at least we've
ruled out hardware.
Note - to reply by email, please reformat the addressee (should be pretty
obvious)