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Any backup programs that do not store in proprietary formats?



 
 
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  #31  
Old May 2nd 18, 03:43 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
(PeteCresswell)
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Default Any backup programs that do not store in proprietary formats?

Per T:
You guys have a favorite that archives in a non-proprietary
format?


I used SecondCopy for quite a few years.

One thing I liked about it was that I could specify generations of backup to
keep and all the versions of a given file were right there in the same place
- so I could just walk the file manager's list and choose the ones I wanted
to restore.
--
Pete Cresswell
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  #32  
Old May 2nd 18, 03:49 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
(PeteCresswell)
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Default Any backup programs that do not store in proprietary formats?

Per mike:
A couple of clicks in Macrium will mount the backup and give
you access as a drive letter. What's unacceptable about that?


I have switched to Macrium and been using it for a couple years+, but the
problem with all of the database-based backup utilities that I have tried
(including Macrium) is that if, for instance, I have fat-fingered a Word
document, saved it, and only discovered the problem days later I have to
mount a whole bunch of incremental backups and hunt through them one-by-one
looking for a "Good" version of the doc.

What is needed is a presentation of all incremental backups on a file-by-file
basis with all versions of a given file appearing sequentially in a
selectable list.

Not gonna happen, I am sure.... probably for reasons I wouldn't understand
anyhow.

I went to Macrium from a file-based utility called SecondCopy partially
because SC was getting weird on my machine - and Macrium seems to be a really
solid product... but the easy availability of multiple versions of a given
file still calls out to me.
--
Pete Cresswell
  #33  
Old May 2nd 18, 03:51 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
(PeteCresswell)
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Posts: 1,933
Default Any backup programs that do not store in proprietary formats?

Per Java Jive:
I split every system I own, Linux or Windows, into two areas, system
disk or partition and data disk or partition, and I back them up
seperately in different ways.


Amen!.... I thought I was the only one.

Still cannot figure out why OS publishers like MS do not build that strategy
into the way their systems are installed.
--
Pete Cresswell
  #34  
Old May 2nd 18, 06:59 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
mike[_10_]
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Posts: 1,073
Default Any backup programs that do not store in proprietary formats?

On 5/2/2018 7:49 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per mike:
A couple of clicks in Macrium will mount the backup and give
you access as a drive letter. What's unacceptable about that?


I have switched to Macrium and been using it for a couple years+, but the
problem with all of the database-based backup utilities that I have tried
(including Macrium) is that if, for instance, I have fat-fingered a Word
document, saved it, and only discovered the problem days later I have to
mount a whole bunch of incremental backups and hunt through them one-by-one
looking for a "Good" version of the doc.

What is needed is a presentation of all incremental backups on a file-by-file
basis with all versions of a given file appearing sequentially in a
selectable list.


Yep, that's the problem with incrementals.
I quit doing incremental backups decades ago after several failed restore
attempts because the tape for incremental 6 of 15 wouldn't read...

Small OS partition and frequent full backups of that has never let me
down. I cull the backups when I need space, but usually have at least
a dozen spanning several years.

Not gonna happen, I am sure.... probably for reasons I wouldn't understand
anyhow.

I went to Macrium from a file-based utility called SecondCopy partially
because SC was getting weird on my machine - and Macrium seems to be a really
solid product... but the easy availability of multiple versions of a given
file still calls out to me.


  #35  
Old May 2nd 18, 07:47 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
mike[_10_]
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Posts: 1,073
Default Any backup programs that do not store in proprietary formats?

On 5/2/2018 7:51 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Java Jive:
I split every system I own, Linux or Windows, into two areas, system
disk or partition and data disk or partition, and I back them up
seperately in different ways.


Amen!.... I thought I was the only one.

Still cannot figure out why OS publishers like MS do not build that strategy
into the way their systems are installed.

Very simple. Complexity causes the support phone to ring.
Your system in a pile of corrupted bits is not their problem.

When you promise something like recovery, you'd better deliver.
You want all the ****ed off customers calling Macrium.
  #36  
Old May 3rd 18, 01:13 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
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Posts: 2,679
Default Any backup programs that do not store in proprietary formats?

In message , mike
writes:
On 5/2/2018 7:51 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Java Jive:
I split every system I own, Linux or Windows, into two areas, system
disk or partition and data disk or partition, and I back them up
seperately in different ways.


Amen!.... I thought I was the only one.


By no means. I image my system and hidden partitions - mainly because of
the impossibility of easily restoring it otherwise (combination of the
anti-piracy measures, and the ridiculous habit of storing _everything_
in the registry). I just copy (using SyncToy, so some would say I sync)
my D: partition. (In both cases I cycle round two or three
images/backups.)

Still cannot figure out why OS publishers like MS do not build that strategy
into the way their systems are installed.


My XP netbook (Samsung NC-20), which I bought new, the first time I used
it, asked me how I wanted the C: and D: partitions arranged. OK, it
would have defaulted to them being equal, but at least it was going to
make the two. But yes, that was a Samsung rather than Microsoft thing,
as far as I can see.

Very simple. Complexity causes the support phone to ring.
Your system in a pile of corrupted bits is not their problem.


Their half-arsed mechanism of having "my" type folders is no less
complex. Having all systems default to two partitions, and all software
default to storing data on other than the system one, would not be
complicated. They could have introduced this at 7, 8, or 10 (or even XP
or earlier); the usual argument about backwards compatibility doesn't
wash, since from some version on (not sure if it was XP or 7), they've
already made some old software not work by making certain folders
inaccessible to software that doesn't know about them (with a very
complicated system - a fudge - for getting round _that_).

When you promise something like recovery, you'd better deliver.
You want all the ****ed off customers calling Macrium.


No, you want them to buy a new PC.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

.... of the two little boxes in the corner of your room, the one without the
pictures is the one that opens the mind. - Stuart Maconie in Radio Times,
2008/10/11-17
  #37  
Old May 3rd 18, 03:25 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Stan Brown
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Posts: 2,904
Default Any backup programs that do not store in proprietary formats?

On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 21:01:46 -0400, Paul wrote:
Robocopy can copy files, but while I've used it for FAT32 boot
drives (because there's no permissions to speak of, just a few
attributes), Robocopy may not be able to nicely handle Junction
Points or whatever. Robocopy isn't touted as a file-by-file
backup program.


I think of it more for synchronizing than for backups.

The array of options is dizzying, but fortunately you can store the
ones you always use.

One that I stored is /XJ, skip junctions.


--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...
  #38  
Old May 3rd 18, 03:29 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Stan Brown
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Posts: 2,904
Default Any backup programs that do not store in proprietary formats?

On Tue, 01 May 2018 00:38:16 -0400, Paul wrote:

Roger Blake wrote:
On 2018-05-01, T wrote:
Just looking for the data.


If you don't need to backup open files you could give Robocopy a try since
it comes with Windows. It does not grok shadow copy but otherwise works
well.


Isn't there some way to create a shadow as a separate step ?
It doesn't say here though, whether the results had any
integrity or not.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/...bocopy-on-win7


The questioner in that article says that Robocopy can't copy open
files. I'm skeptical of that statement.

When I've updated my batch file that calls Robocopy, it gets copied
just fine. My password manager data file, which is always open, also
gets copied just fine.


--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...
  #39  
Old May 3rd 18, 05:11 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
mike[_10_]
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Posts: 1,073
Default Any backup programs that do not store in proprietary formats?

On 5/2/2018 7:29 PM, Stan Brown wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2018 00:38:16 -0400, Paul wrote:

Roger Blake wrote:
On 2018-05-01, T wrote:
Just looking for the data.

If you don't need to backup open files you could give Robocopy a try since
it comes with Windows. It does not grok shadow copy but otherwise works
well.


Isn't there some way to create a shadow as a separate step ?
It doesn't say here though, whether the results had any
integrity or not.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/...bocopy-on-win7


The questioner in that article says that Robocopy can't copy open
files. I'm skeptical of that statement.

When I've updated my batch file that calls Robocopy, it gets copied
just fine. My password manager data file, which is always open, also
gets copied just fine.


I think the problem arises when you're WRITING the file at the same
time that it's being robocopied.
  #40  
Old May 3rd 18, 05:08 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Diesel
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Posts: 937
Default Any backup programs that do not store in proprietary formats?

Java Jive news Tue, 01 May 2018 21:10:58 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:

On 01/05/2018 01:08, T wrote:
Hi All,

I am looking for a backup program (paid or free) that will
store its archives in a non-proprietary format.Â* I other words,
it can store its archives in a format that ANY file manager
can read.

I am basically looking for a replacement for Cobian Backup,
which is abandon ware.


I no longer use any proprietary backup tool - reason? In the
days before HDs became cheap, I used to back up to tape, and
discovered the hard way that if the final tape became unreadable
for any reason, the *entire* backup was lost, because that was the
one containing all the directory and filename information! Duh!
Talk about building in a guaranteed weakness!

Others have mentioned Ghost, and it too suffers from this
syndrome, if, as I still do, you break up the backup into segments
each about 2GB long (so that if necessary they can go onto a FAT32
USB drive), then, if the last segment is corrupted, the entire
backup is lost. Nevertheless, I still use Ghost, but in a very
limited way, as described below.

I split every system I own, Linux or Windows, into two areas,
system disk or partition and data disk or partition, and I back
them up seperately in different ways.

I use Ghost only for Windows system images, making them every two
or three months or whenever I'm about to make significant changes
such as trying out new software, and I have Ghost Explorer
installed on every Windows system so that if necessary I can use
any Windows machine to retrieve individual files for any other
Windows machine. I make the backups using a W98-DOS mode bootable
USB drive to run Ghost, and I back up the system image to the data
disk or partition, so that when that next gets backed up, the
system backup will be included. Also, this means that each PC
always has its latest Ghost image on it for convenient
restoration.

For my Linux systems, I've gone a rather different route, I have a
script that installs all my custom software, configures my
website, etc, so that if a Linux installation get corrupted, I
boot from a standard Linux installation USB to reinstall it, then
run the script to customise it, and about an hour or two later the
machine is ready to use.

For Windows data, I use a Win32 implementation of Linux's rsync
called DeltaCopy, which, as its name implies, only backs up
changed files. Be aware that if you have files with accented
filenames, you will need to find a DLL from an external source to
replace one of those supplied with DeltaCopy. I download and set
up DeltaCopy so long ago, and now just copy the program and start
menu directories onto new builds, that I can't remember any more
detail of the problem than that, but at the time I solved it
simply by searching the web. The program works very well for me,
running as well on 64-bit machines as 32-bit.

For Linux data, again I use rsync.

So where does the data go, and what about backup formats? It goes
onto a NAS device running under Linux, which runs the rsync daemon
(server) to receive the data from rsync and DeltaCopy, and has
both Windows (Samba) and Linux (NFS) sharing to allow access from
each client OS to the backed up data. You may care to note that
DeltaCopy also has a server component which would allow you to set
up a Windows PC or server to be the destination of the backups.
Because Linux and Windows have different permissions systems, I
run a program overnight on the NAS to ensure that the Linux
permissions set on the Windows data allow access from Windows
machines. This is done by adding all Windows users to a Linux
group, and giving that group access to the data. However, I've
recently realised that you can get rsync to change the ownership
for itself, but haven't yet had a chance to try this out.

So no proprietary format is involved, and if just one file is
corrupted, a raft of others aren't lost. I can access the data on
the NAS any time via its shares without needing any special
program, with the exception that I need Ghost Explorer to read the
Ghost backups if I need to find individual files from a Windows
system disk image.

My phone and tablet are backed up via USB to the Windows data
partition, and thence they too get backed up to the server.

The ease of using this system has revolutionised my backing up, I
just set a back up going a little before I go upstairs to bed, and
it's usually completed in time for me to shut down the PC before
doing so, and if not, I leave it going overnight. Now the biggest
source of loss of data is when yours truly get a little too
zealous doing data housekeeping!

However, I should point out that the system took some setting up.
Besides the replacement DLL needed for DeltaCopy, you also need to
configure its client at least, and the server if you intend to use
it. The NAS itself needed some customisation to make it more
useful than as supplied, and of course you need to configure its
rsync daemon to match how you configured the DeltaCopy client.
None of this would be for the technically hard of thinking, but
once it works, it just works.


Does your NAS use cloud storage as well? Or, are you making any
further backups beyond the NAS itself? If not, what are your recovery
plans in the event a drive in the NAS fails?



--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
================================================== =
The scalded cat fears even cold water.
  #41  
Old May 3rd 18, 05:16 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Java Jive
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Default Any backup programs that do not store in proprietary formats?

On 03/05/2018 17:08, Diesel wrote:

Java Jive news Tue, 01 May 2018 21:10:58 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:

It goes
onto a NAS device running under Linux, which runs the rsync daemon
(server) to receive the data from rsync and DeltaCopy, and has
both Windows (Samba) and Linux (NFS) sharing to allow access from
each client OS to the backed up data.


Does your NAS use cloud storage as well? Or, are you making any
further backups beyond the NAS itself? If not, what are your recovery
plans in the event a drive in the NAS fails?


There is too much data to consider cloud storage, so instead I have two
NASs, and the first copies new stuff onto the second in the early
morning. The only thing I'm not covered against is a fire.
  #42  
Old May 3rd 18, 07:47 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
mike[_10_]
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Posts: 1,073
Default Any backup programs that do not store in proprietary formats?

On 5/3/2018 9:16 AM, Java Jive wrote:
On 03/05/2018 17:08, Diesel wrote:

Java Jive news Tue, 01 May 2018 21:10:58 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:

It goes
onto a NAS device running under Linux, which runs the rsync daemon
(server) to receive the data from rsync and DeltaCopy, and has
both Windows (Samba) and Linux (NFS) sharing to allow access from
each client OS to the backed up data.


Does your NAS use cloud storage as well? Or, are you making any
further backups beyond the NAS itself? If not, what are your recovery
plans in the event a drive in the NAS fails?


There is too much data to consider cloud storage, so instead I have two
NASs, and the first copies new stuff onto the second in the early
morning. The only thing I'm not covered against is a fire.


I've never been a fan of unattended copy for backups.
If the first NAS gets corrupted, you copy the corruption to the
backup-backup.
You probably don't discover the problem until you see a symptom and
attempt to get back the data. It's all equally corrupt.

My archived partition images can't be corrupted by anything that
happens in the future, cuz the backup-backup archive drive isn't powered
on unless I'm archiving a backup.
  #43  
Old May 5th 18, 02:08 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
T
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Posts: 4,600
Default Any backup programs that do not store in proprietary formats?

On 04/30/2018 05:08 PM, T wrote:
Hi All,

I am looking for a backup program (paid or free) that will
store its archives in a non-proprietary format.Â* I other words,
it can store its archives in a format that ANY file manager
can read.

I am basically looking for a replacement for Cobian Backup,
which is abandon ware.

I have tested Macrium Reflect, which is a sweet package, but
their tech support has verified that they can only store
in their proprietary format, so they are out.

You guys have a favorite that archives in a non-proprietary
format?


Many thanks,
-T


Just posted:

import Outlook greyed out
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1459369
  #44  
Old May 5th 18, 03:38 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,600
Default Any backup programs that do not store in proprietary formats?

On 05/03/2018 11:47 AM, mike wrote:
I've never been a fan of unattended copy for backups.


That is why I love an eMail report for each backup
 




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