Any backup programs that do not store in proprietary formats?

Hi All,

I am looking for a backup program (paid or free) that will
store its archives in a non-proprietary format. I other words,
it can store its archives in a format that ANY file manager
can read.

I am basically looking for a replacement for Cobian Backup,
which is abandon ware.

I have tested Macrium Reflect, which is a sweet package, but
their tech support has verified that they can only store
in their proprietary format, so they are out.

You guys have a favorite that archives in a non-proprietary
format?


Many thanks,
-T

T wrote:
Hi All,

I am looking for a backup program (paid or free) that will
store its archives in a non-proprietary format. I other words,
it can store its archives in a format that ANY file manager
can read.

I am basically looking for a replacement for Cobian Backup,
which is abandon ware.

I have tested Macrium Reflect, which is a sweet package, but
their tech support has verified that they can only store
in their proprietary format, so they are out.

You guys have a favorite that archives in a non-proprietary
format?


Many thanks,
-T

So what's your preferred output format ? TAR (Tape Archive) ?

Remember that a typical commercial backup program in 2018,
uses VSS, and it makes an inventory of clusters. Then, on
a good day, it sequentially accesses the clusters, for least
wear and tear on the drive. Now, given the access pattern,
what kind of output format would you expect ? No, Scotty, it
isn't a friendly format.

It can't be TAR, as TAR is "file-sequential" and the disk
heads would have to fly all over the place during TAR construction.
If a file was fragmented, TAR would make the disk heads fly
all over and capture the file. Whereas one of the twenty or
so VSS based programs, would capture the clusters in
ascending-LBA-number order.

https://www.raymond.cc/blog/10-comme...ed-comparison/

(I tried DriveImage XML mentioned on that page some time ago,
and like RaymondCC says, it's dog slow compared to the rest.)

Robocopy can copy files, but while I've used it for FAT32 boot
drives (because there's no permissions to speak of, just a few
attributes), Robocopy may not be able to nicely handle Junction
Points or whatever. Robocopy isn't touted as a file-by-file
backup program.

You could examine a program like Retrospect, which back in its
day was a file-by-file intended to drive a physical tape
drive. The last copy I bought of that (a ton of years ago),
would also back up to a hard drive. At one time, it had
a 2GB size limit for output hard drives, but that was
probably fixed, as the person I set that up for the last
time was using a 40GB output drive.

Macrium has an option to convert from MRIMG to VHD.
VHD can be mounted in a number of virtual machine environments.
VHD is mount-able in Windows (even in WinXP as long as your
C: is NTFS and you have a copy of VHDTool). VHD can be
parsed by 7ZIP archiver, if you need random file access, but
I've been noticing lately that a lot of my VHD files
seem to have a geometry declaration that upsets 7ZIP
and prevents traversal.

Ghost probably wouldn't be any good - the older versions
might be file by file, but the output is likely proprietary.
I think there was some sort of "Viewer" so you could see
and extract individual files.

You could probably kinda-sorta backup to TAR, but you'd need
to run an ICACLS from top to bottom of the drive, to capture
all the permissions properly, and store that file on the
partition before backup. You would have to be certifiable
nuts to try this.

I'm not going to claim it's un-possible, what you're asking,
but it's getting damn close.

Many of the backup programs have a mounter for their output file,
that gives random access to the captures partition(s). Ghost had
that. Acronis had that. Macrium has it.

Maybe your needs are somehow legal and not technical ?
Personally, as long as a format is "recoverable" and
has a verify, and has a few viewing options, I'm pretty
happy.

A non-proprietary format would be "dd", a sector-by-sector
image of the drive. If you zero the white space on each
partition before capture, I have a block compressor that
runs at 300MB/sec that will remove all the zeroed areas
of the disk from the archive, and reduce the amount of stored
info to about the same size as Macrium ("just the clusters with files").
But I doubt you'd appreciate my programming talents :-/

*******

The built-in Windows backup stores each partition as a
separate VHD file. Leaving to the imagination how the
MBR and first track are stored.

*******

It's possible to do a VSS freeze of a volume from user-land.
Maybe you'll be writing this mythical "friendly" backup yourself ?

I could certainly do it with "dd" here, but only with gales
of laughter from the audience here. My "dd" method exists as
a "reference platform", like if I had nothing and I was dialing
in a second method, and I wanted "insurance", one of my "dd"
methods would provide that insurance. The first backup program
I dialed in, "dd" was the emergency restore method in my
plan. I had a "dd image" of the drive before I started.

Retrospect has a trial. With sales contact info, of course.

https://www.retrospect.com/en/store/trial?locale=en

(600 page user manual, doubles as a sales guide. Modular,
"charge charge charge" for plugins design. Our IT department
used this stuff at one time, and slogging through the manual
is an experience. It took two solid days of scripting on the
Mac, to setup a complete backup run there. It took 12 pages
of written notes, to explain to an end-user the steps to look
for when doing a Windows backup.

http://download.retrospect.com/docs/...r_Guide-EN.pdf

The average backup product has a 150-200 page manual, so you can
tell from the size of the Retrospect manual (3x the competition)
just what it's like. Still, it's possible you'll find the trial
amusing. You never know.

I couldn't find details on the Retrospect output format today.
The product may have changed hands a time or two since I used it.

Paul

On 04/30/2018 06:01 PM, Paul wrote:
So what's your preferred output format ? TAR (Tape Archive) ?

Hi Paul,

Tar...Chuckle. Preferred archive: anything I can read with Thunar!

:-)

Wow! That was a write up! I will have to read it
through several times! Thank you!

I still use Tar for certain things. Dump/xfsdump/restore/xfsrestore
for a some things too, but this is Windows, so ...

-T

In message , T writes:
Hi All,

I am looking for a backup program (paid or free) that will
store its archives in a non-proprietary format. I other words,
it can store its archives in a format that ANY file manager
can read.
[]
Going to be difficult, if you want to be able to back up your boot
sector/partition table/MFT for restoration after disaster; I don't think
conventional file managers (e. g. Windows Explorer) dead with those.

If it's just the _data_ part (in my case, the D: partition), then I find
SyncToy works as well as any (and certainly what it produces is readable
with Explorer or anything similar, since it basically just does a copy
(just speeds the process, if you're backing up to somewhere you have
already backed up to previously, by only dealing with what's changed
since last time).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I love the way Microsoft follows standards. In much the same manner that fish
follow migrating caribou. - Paul Tomblin, cited by "The Real Bev", 2017-2-18.

On 04/30/2018 06:43 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , T writes:
Hi All,

I am looking for a backup program (paid or free) that will
store its archives in a non-proprietary format.Â* I other words,
it can store its archives in a format that ANY file manager
can read.
[]
Going to be difficult, if you want to be able to back up your boot
sector/partition table/MFT for restoration after disaster; I don't think
conventional file managers (e. g. Windows Explorer) dead with those.

If it's just the _data_ part (in my case, the D: partition), then I find
SyncToy works as well as any (and certainly what it produces is readable
with Explorer or anything similar, since it basically just does a copy
(just speeds the process, if you're backing up to somewhere you have
already backed up to previously, by only dealing with what's changed
since last time).

Just looking for the data.

Thank you!

If I was going to do an image of the whole stinker, I would
use CloneZilla

On 2018-05-01, T wrote:
Just looking for the data.

If you don't need to backup open files you could give Robocopy a try since
it comes with Windows. It does not grok shadow copy but otherwise works
well.

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On 4/30/2018 5:08 PM, T wrote:
Hi All,

I am looking for a backup program (paid or free) that will
store its archives in a non-proprietary format. I other words,
it can store its archives in a format that ANY file manager
can read.

I am basically looking for a replacement for Cobian Backup,
which is abandon ware.

I have tested Macrium Reflect, which is a sweet package, but
their tech support has verified that they can only store
in their proprietary format, so they are out.

You guys have a favorite that archives in a non-proprietary
format?


Many thanks,
-T
Maybe it would help to learn why you're doing this.
What are you gonna do with the non-proprietary backup when you get it?

A couple of clicks in Macrium will mount the backup and give
you access as a drive letter. What's unacceptable about that?

You could mount the backup and copy the contents into any
format you please.

Remember that Macrium does more than just copy files.
If you click the "create image...required to backup and restore windows"
you also get the boot sector and the reserved sectors.

One particularly useful function for windows 7 is to sysprep it
and backup the sysprepped version.
If your motherboard fails, you can boot the rescue CD and restore the
sysprepped version
to virtually any other motherboard and it will probably boot.
There are probably issues with UEFI, but I don't have any of those
that aren't bricked.
You'll still have to activate, but you haven't lost everything.
I do this about once a year.

Just backup your system before you do this. Sysprep will modify your
system and you'll have to go thru the new install setup/configuration.
Restoring the backup is simpler.

Which brings up the other elephant in the room.
How do you test your backups to make sure they worked?
It's good to do that at least once when you switch backup methods.
I restore the backup to a blank HD.
Doesn't do any good to have a bad backup that just destroyed your
working system.

It's never as simple as it oughta be...

Roger Blake wrote:
On 2018-05-01, T wrote:
Just looking for the data.

If you don't need to backup open files you could give Robocopy a try since
it comes with Windows. It does not grok shadow copy but otherwise works
well.


Isn't there some way to create a shadow as a separate step ?
It doesn't say here though, whether the results had any
integrity or not.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/...bocopy-on-win7

That's one of the problems I have with backup/clone, is no
handy utility to determine whether all file system features
were successfully reproduced or not. I suppose it's too much,
to expect such a thing to exist.

Paul

On 04/30/2018 09:20 PM, mike wrote:
A couple of clicks in Macrium will mount the backup and give
you access as a drive letter.Â* What's unacceptable about that?

Not what I was meaning.


What I am after is if a disaster happends and you want to
recover files from your backups, I want to be able to do
it with any file manager.

Macrium requires Macrium to recover.

On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 17:08:04 -0700, T wrote:

Hi All,

I am looking for a backup program (paid or free) that will
store its archives in a non-proprietary format. I other words,
it can store its archives in a format that ANY file manager
can read.

I am basically looking for a replacement for Cobian Backup,
which is abandon ware.

I have tested Macrium Reflect, which is a sweet package, but
their tech support has verified that they can only store
in their proprietary format, so they are out.

You guys have a favorite that archives in a non-proprietary
format?

Many thanks,
-T

Most file manager support at least ZIP. But if you intend to backup files
including their security attributes, from NTFS drive, ZIP archive is not a
good archive for this - because it doesn't support NTFS extended and
security attributes. The only archives (that I know) which support NTFS
extended and security attributes, are RAR, 7-Zip, and WIM.

Otherwise, any arhive format will do - as long as they support Unicode file
names. i.e. not CAB or ZIP.

If you use ZIP, make sure no file you want to backup, do not contains any
character which is not within ANSI character set.

On 04/30/2018 11:16 PM, JJ wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 17:08:04 -0700, T wrote:

Hi All,

I am looking for a backup program (paid or free) that will
store its archives in a non-proprietary format. I other words,
it can store its archives in a format that ANY file manager
can read.

I am basically looking for a replacement for Cobian Backup,
which is abandon ware.

I have tested Macrium Reflect, which is a sweet package, but
their tech support has verified that they can only store
in their proprietary format, so they are out.

You guys have a favorite that archives in a non-proprietary
format?

Many thanks,
-T

Most file manager support at least ZIP. But if you intend to backup files
including their security attributes, from NTFS drive, ZIP archive is not a
good archive for this - because it doesn't support NTFS extended and
security attributes. The only archives (that I know) which support NTFS
extended and security attributes, are RAR, 7-Zip, and WIM.

Otherwise, any arhive format will do - as long as they support Unicode file
names. i.e. not CAB or ZIP.

If you use ZIP, make sure no file you want to backup, do not contains any
character which is not within ANSI character set.


It doesn't not need to be that fancy.

I do like Macrium, except you have to have Macrium to recover files

On 04/30/2018 05:08 PM, T wrote:
Hi All,

I am looking for a backup program (paid or free) that will
store its archives in a non-proprietary format.Â* I other words,
it can store its archives in a format that ANY file manager
can read.

I am basically looking for a replacement for Cobian Backup,
which is abandon ware.

I have tested Macrium Reflect, which is a sweet package, but
their tech support has verified that they can only store
in their proprietary format, so they are out.

You guys have a favorite that archives in a non-proprietary
format?


Many thanks,
-T

Any of you guys have any experience with KLS?
http://kls-soft.com/main/index.php

On 04/30/2018 05:08 PM, T wrote:
Hi All,

I am looking for a backup program (paid or free) that will
store its archives in a non-proprietary format.Â* I other words,
it can store its archives in a format that ANY file manager
can read.

I am basically looking for a replacement for Cobian Backup,
which is abandon ware.

I have tested Macrium Reflect, which is a sweet package, but
their tech support has verified that they can only store
in their proprietary format, so they are out.

You guys have a favorite that archives in a non-proprietary
format?


Many thanks,
-T


How about Backup4all?

http://www.backup4all.com/

On 04/30/2018 05:08 PM, T wrote:
Hi All,

I am looking for a backup program (paid or free) that will
store its archives in a non-proprietary format.Â* I other words,
it can store its archives in a format that ANY file manager
can read.

I am basically looking for a replacement for Cobian Backup,
which is abandon ware.

I have tested Macrium Reflect, which is a sweet package, but
their tech support has verified that they can only store
in their proprietary format, so they are out.

You guys have a favorite that archives in a non-proprietary
format?


Many thanks,
-T

How about SyncBackPro?

https://www.2brightsparks.com/

"T" wrote in message news
Hi All,

I am looking for a backup program (paid or free) that will
store its archives in a non-proprietary format. I other words,
it can store its archives in a format that ANY file manager
can read.

I am basically looking for a replacement for Cobian Backup,
which is abandon ware.

I have tested Macrium Reflect, which is a sweet package, but
their tech support has verified that they can only store
in their proprietary format, so they are out.

You guys have a favorite that archives in a non-proprietary
format?

I use Microsoft SyncToy (don't be put off by the "Toy" in the name). It
makes a file-for-file copy to the backup, rather than amalgamating all the
files into one big backup file, so it is very easy (using Windows Explorer
etc) to retrieve a specific file or folder from the backup if the original
gets trashed. It doesn't run automatically and it doesn't maintain versions
of file history, but those are not features that I would need.

It does incremental backups: if you run it on a pair of folders (source and
backup) that have already been synchronised in the past, it only copies the
new or changed files since the last backup.