more error in F8.1U1

In message , ...winston
writes
8.0 lifecycle (end of support) for program and security updates
(announced in Oct 2013) is October 2015 (two years after 8.1 release
consistent with timing for past Service Pack releases for prior
operating systems)

8.1 requires (after June 9) to be updated to 8.1 Update (aka 8.1 Update
1) to receive program and security updates.

i.e
- 8.0 will continue to be offered program and security updates until
Oct. 2015 when 8.1 will be necessary.
- 8.1 on the other hand needs to be updated to 8.1 Update by June.

So, if we take my case:

I bought and installed 8.0 + Media Center at the old offer price.
The upgrade to 8.1 was a complete fiasco because all the networking
failed (I posted about this ages ago).
I put the machine to one side while I sort out another machine that will
run 8.1.
When I decide on which of these oldish machines it will be, I will
install 8.0 using the original "COA", then hope that if I install 8.1
from the app store, it will be 8.1u1 (or 2 by then). Will this work?
I hope I don't have to do the 8.1 update in 2 stages.
--
Bill

On 5/17/2014 2:05 PM, ...winston wrote:
BillW50 wrote, On 5/17/2014 9:54 AM:
On 5/16/2014 7:14 PM, Todd wrote:
http://www.infoworld.com/t/microsoft...b-2919355-2426


Yes, this is the same patch that Microsoft was going to use as a
"baseline" for all future Windows 8.1 patches: Up until Monday
of this week, Microsoft's official, oft-repeated policy demanded
that customers install KB 2919355 if they wanted any future
Windows 8.1 security patches. Fortunately, on May 12 cooler
heads prevailed and Microsoft informed Windows 8.1 customers
that the threatened Windows 8.1 patch cutoff was a paper tiger
-- those who didn't get Windows 8.1 Update/KB2919322 installed
by May 13 would continue to receive updates for another month,
until Black Tuesday June 9.

Huh? What is this about? The machines that I have 8.0 installed on will
be stuck at 8.0 if I don't update them before June 9th?

No, you're misinterpreting the mandatory update applicability for 8.0
and 8.1

Good.

8.0 lifecycle (end of support) for program and security updates
(announced in Oct 2013) is October 2015 (two years after 8.1 release
consistent with timing for past Service Pack releases for prior
operating systems)

Wow that is really short. XPSP3 lasted for about 7 years for example.

8.1 requires (after June 9) to be updated to 8.1 Update (aka 8.1 Update
1) to receive program and security updates.

i.e
- 8.0 will continue to be offered program and security updates until
Oct. 2015 when 8.1 will be necessary.
- 8.1 on the other hand needs to be updated to 8.1 Update by June.

Wow! 8.1 is dying less than a year?

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Kingston 120GB SSD - Thunderbird v24.4.0
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8.1 Pro w/Media Center

Todd wrote, On 5/17/2014 2:41 PM:
On 05/17/2014 12:55 AM, Paul wrote:
There's no reason to fear updating it for your
own personal use. Do a backup, do 8.1 then U1,
if you get one of the eleven errors, you can
always back out using your backup image. That
was all part of the process for me, when I spent
four hours doing it.

Hi Paul,

My Frankenstein 8 (F8) resides in a Virtual Machine
with a dynamic growing hard drive. The drive doesn't
decrease its size, unless I jump through some huge
hoops. Currently, under F8.0 the drive is 20 GB.

So, I want to leave F8.0 alone for now, as all the
downloading and temp files will cause my drive to
balloon. This is an issue on my backups. Huge
empty files are not good for backup speed.

Now if the *******s would let my F8.0 key work on
the F8.1 iso, then I would do it. Wipe and start over
with a new virtual drive. Also if a customer
needs it, it will happen in a flash. I will
just have to deal with the bloated drives.

Every customer I have with F8 is nearly in tears over it,
so there is not a lot of call to upgrade them,
especially since they would never pay the labor
to have me watch the thing for hours downloading.
(Sometimes when downloads take forever, I will
sign out and go do errands. But, a lot of the
time I get back with things asking a question
before downloading and I lost all the time. The
fuss factor and don't fall asleep in front of the
customer.)

I liked the Vista to W7 upgrade. I could start it running
and leave for about four hours. Then finish off remaining
questions.

-T

Hopefully it's understood that for those 8.0 folks that in 17 mo. it
will be necessary to update 8.0 to 8.1 (and then to Update 1 or whatever
is required/mandatory later).

It's probably a safe bet that:
- 8.0 keys will never work for clean installing 8.1 (with 8.1's media or
iso download)
- 8.1 and any later 8.x retail media will remain full version
- Future o/s (as an example 9 and later) will also be full version
- upgrading to a different version for Win8.1 (e.g. Core to Pro) will
always require media
- The 8.1 Update 1 will continue to be available from the Download
Center (unlike the 8.1 RTM upgrade)
- Installing Win 8.1 on pc's running XP or Vista must run Windows Setup
by booting Win 8.1 media

On my Acer i3 EFI Win7 Pro laptop
- 8.0 was clean installed using the 8.0 Pro upgrade media.
- the 8.1 update via the Store in Jan. 2014 (on wifi via my DLink
Dir-655 router on a 12 Mbps) took about 55 minutes* (download to 8.1
Desktop - two restarts were necessary). [* possibly a few minutes less
since I don't know how long it was sitting waiting for me to acknowledge
the first Restart, the second Resart was automatic)
- The 8.1 Update via Windows Update (on a fully updated 8.1 via same
wifi method) on May 15 took 20 min to download and install KB 2919355
and 7 minutes after Restart to the Win8.1 Update Desktop.

Comparatively, removing that same laptop's hard drive and replacing it
with an identical bare metal drive the 8.1 full version media clean
install and final setup excluding subsequent software install (Office
2013 Pro, Acronis True Image 2014, Windows Essentials 2012 and SeaMonkey
)took about 40 minutes and an almost identical time (26 min) after noted
software install and fully updated Win8.1 for the 8.1 Update KB 2919355
to install.

The net difference was about 15 minutes from 8.0-8.1-8.1 Update vs. 8.1
clean install to 8.1 Update.


--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

Todd said on 5/17/2014 2:12 PM:
On 05/17/2014 05:55 AM, Big Al wrote:
I get it that you don't like Windows 8, but could you tone down the
F.... stuff. Its W8.1 And for a lot of people the updates are fine,
work well, and are great step forward to making the OS more workable.

Flame me if you want, but you can be negative without being foul.

Hi Big Al,

[flame] Although flaming you does sound like fun, the "F" stands
for "Frankenstein". It is a gentle jab at M$ for stitching
parts of a tablet and a desktop together, creating a monster.
No vulgarity is intended. [/flame]

As flames go, that wasn't a really good one, but it
will have to do for now. Maybe next time I will improve.

-T

Thank you for the vulgarity heads up. In the future, I will
spell out Frankenstein first before abbreviating it, so as to
not create any misunderstanding.

By the way, you could have just asked me.

No fault of yours, I think I did ask you once. Sorry I'm well into
retirement and little things like this go in one ear and out the other.
Thus, it was me doing the vulgar thing, I guess I got a dirty mind,
boy I am a dirty old man now :-)

No need to spell it out, just write it off as a dumb old foggy.

And thanks for taking it nicely. I'll remember this now for sure!

On 17 May 2014, Todd wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

[flame] Although flaming you does sound like fun, the "F" stands
for "Frankenstein". It is a gentle jab at M$ for stitching
parts of a tablet and a desktop together, creating a monster.
No vulgarity is intended. [/flame]

Why don't you just call it "Windows"? Your nickname is stupid,
juvenile, and confusing. You might be taken seriously if you didn't
rely on childish jokes.

Todd wrote:


Now if the *******s would let my F8.0 key work on
the F8.1 iso, then I would do it. Wipe and start over
with a new virtual drive. Also if a customer
needs it, it will happen in a flash. I will
just have to deal with the bloated drives.


But that's what the install-only keys are for.

Windows 8.1 Pro: XHQ8N-C3MCJ-RQXB6-WCHYG-C9WKB
Windows 8.1: 334NH-RXG76-64THK-C7CKG-D3VPT

Start an 8.1 install with the appropriate one of those.
(There is also an entire list of Enterprise VLK ones.)

When the install is finished, you use something
like "slui 3" to bring up the key change dialog,
then enter your 8.0 key, then activate.

That's how the 8.1 got onto my Win8 boot drive.

You can start a fresh VM right now, and test
that out. Until you enter the 8.0 key to
replace the install-only key "nobody knows who
you are" :-)

Paul

Bill wrote:
In message , ...winston
writes
8.0 lifecycle (end of support) for program and security updates
(announced in Oct 2013) is October 2015 (two years after 8.1 release
consistent with timing for past Service Pack releases for prior
operating systems)

8.1 requires (after June 9) to be updated to 8.1 Update (aka 8.1
Update 1) to receive program and security updates.

i.e
- 8.0 will continue to be offered program and security updates until
Oct. 2015 when 8.1 will be necessary.
- 8.1 on the other hand needs to be updated to 8.1 Update by June.

So, if we take my case:

I bought and installed 8.0 + Media Center at the old offer price.
The upgrade to 8.1 was a complete fiasco because all the networking
failed (I posted about this ages ago).
I put the machine to one side while I sort out another machine that will
run 8.1.
When I decide on which of these oldish machines it will be, I will
install 8.0 using the original "COA", then hope that if I install 8.1
from the app store, it will be 8.1u1 (or 2 by then). Will this work?
I hope I don't have to do the 8.1 update in 2 stages.

You could do it the way I did it:

1) Purchase 8.0 and do the double install method.
2) Get the free MC key, part of the 39.95 offer.
Add the feature to the OS, to get to Win8.0 Pro with MC.
3) Download an 8.1 DVD. I used the double-download method
(go back to the store where you bought 8.0, pretend to download,
stop the download, restart and it starts downloading an 8.1 DVD).
4) Do a "Repair Install" while 8.0 is running. (Repair installs don't
work like WinXP, where the OS is shut down. You start the setup
process from a running Windows 8.0.) The Windows folder becomes
Windows.old. A new Windows folder is created. Use an install-only
key to fool the installer into letting you do the install. When
you're prompted at the beginning of the install, feed it this.

Windows 8.1 Pro: XHQ8N-C3MCJ-RQXB6-WCHYG-C9WKB --- what I used
Windows 8.1: 334NH-RXG76-64THK-C7CKG-D3VPT

5) After it reboots, you'll be in 8.1 with a bad key and not
activated. Enter "slui 3" as a command, and that should bring
up the "key change" dialog. Enter your 8.0 key, which should be
accepted.

6) After another reboot, go add the MC (8.0) upgrade key, and that
should be accepted.

7) After 30 days, the Windows.old will be erased for you. You can
accelerate the process using Disk Cleanup. This is unlike previous
OSes, where the timing of the removal of the Windows.old was
purely under the control of the user.

Now, of course this could turn out exactly the way your first
attempt did. Because the stupid "Repair Install" works from a
running OS, that means it leans too heavily on the content of
that installation. It doesn't "blow away" the amount of stuff
we'd need to correct a problem. So you could still get stuck.
You should make sure you have a backup of your Win 8.0 install,
before proceeding.

There are various "dism" commands, with promising sounding
command line options, that could be run against your 8.0
in an attempt to prepare it. But I know nothing about
those - there just seem to be too many of those options,
for them to all be useful.

http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials...ndows-8-a.html

When you're finished 8.1, you can do U1 next. I downloaded
all the components and kept them in a folder for later.
The "installation instructions" can help you here.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/downl....aspx?id=42335

Paul

Todd wrote:
On 05/17/2014 02:19 PM, BillW50 wrote:
Wow! 8.1 is dying less than a year?

Frankenstein 8.0 and 8.1 are really the same OS with
a service pack applied. M$ markets it the way they
do so you will have to buy new disks if you want
to do a direct install


You do backups, like you do for any other procedure.

It's like a surgeon, remembering to wash his
hands before operating.

I don't see where the "buying extra disks comes in".
I have 2TB left to hold ~30GB backup images. I should
be able to fit a few of those :-)

If I had to go back to 8.0, I have a backup image
of it. Compressed, and waiting for me.

*******

Now, to be fair to you, is any of this "convenient" ?
Absolutely not. They didn't have to do things this way.
But on the other hand, "we can handle it". So far,
I haven't hit a wall here. Could still happen, but
hasn't happened with Win8 yet. It still boots. The
OS still amuses itself running the Search Indexer,
TIworker, defragmenter, mop and pail. So the OS
can keep itself busy, with no help from us.

Paul

"Nil" wrote in message
...
On 17 May 2014, Todd wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

[flame] Although flaming you does sound like fun, the "F" stands
for "Frankenstein". It is a gentle jab at M$ for stitching
parts of a tablet and a desktop together, creating a monster.
No vulgarity is intended. [/flame]

Why don't you just call it "Windows"? Your nickname is stupid,
juvenile, and confusing. You might be taken seriously if you didn't
rely on childish jokes.

Yet another PLUS ONE.

Chris

On 05/17/2014 06:23 PM, Chris S wrote:

"Nil" wrote in message
...
On 17 May 2014, Todd wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

[flame] Although flaming you does sound like fun, the "F" stands
for "Frankenstein". It is a gentle jab at M$ for stitching
parts of a tablet and a desktop together, creating a monster.
No vulgarity is intended. [/flame]

Why don't you just call it "Windows"? Your nickname is stupid,
juvenile, and confusing. You might be taken seriously if you didn't
rely on childish jokes.

Yet another PLUS ONE.

Chris


You two need to get a sense of humor.

On 18 May 2014, Todd wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

You two need to get a sense of humor.

It's not funny. It's puerile and boring.

Todd wrote:
On 05/17/2014 09:08 PM, Todd wrote:
On 05/17/2014 05:01 PM, Paul wrote:
Todd wrote:


Now if the *******s would let my F8.0 key work on
the F8.1 iso, then I would do it. Wipe and start over
with a new virtual drive. Also if a customer
needs it, it will happen in a flash. I will
just have to deal with the bloated drives.


But that's what the install-only keys are for.

Windows 8.1 Pro: XHQ8N-C3MCJ-RQXB6-WCHYG-C9WKB
Windows 8.1: 334NH-RXG76-64THK-C7CKG-D3VPT

Start an 8.1 install with the appropriate one of those.
(There is also an entire list of Enterprise VLK ones.)

When the install is finished, you use something
like "slui 3" to bring up the key change dialog,
then enter your 8.0 key, then activate.

That's how the 8.1 got onto my Win8 boot drive.

You can start a fresh VM right now, and test
that out. Until you enter the 8.0 key to
replace the install-only key "nobody knows who
you are" :-)

Paul

Hi Paul,

Very cool. Thank you!

You wouldn't know where to download the
Frankenstein 8.1 Pro ISO?

-T


Oh yes, the "double-download method", as you mentioned
further down the post. If I have to. Wouldn't know of
the ISO just by itself?


You could look for a copy of the MSDN subscription one.
But that would be a torrent. And when you complete
the download, you check the known SHA1 checksum.
The subscription one can be used to install
multiple different versions. It has more images in it,
than the one I've got.

And you would be surprised sometimes, where people store
things. Someone managed to stage an ISO on a Google
site, and I downloaded it from there. I doubt that
is there today :-)

The Internet is like an Easter Egg hunt.

Paul

Todd wrote, On 5/17/2014 6:27 PM:
Hi Winston,

A lot depends on your Internet speed and how fast your computer
is. Some of the new el-cheap-o computers are slower than
the dickens.

What is your take on the OEM ISO media. Do you think
they will bundle 8.1U1 on the disk, or just stay
at 8.1 and make you upgrade on your own.

I loved it when I could get XP-SP3 and W7-SP1 OEM disks:
makes/made installing a charm.

-T

I wish W7 would go to SP2. All the updates are a pain
in the neck and crash a lot after installation. I have
moved to WSUS (which removes conflicting, superseded
updates) to do the updates on a fresh install.
That way, W7 is only a week or two out of date
when the customer gets it.



Since MSDN and other MSFT Partner programs now have 'Win8.1 with Update'
(8.1U) in a retail version if past practice holds (especially
considering the heartache inflicted by the 8.1U via WU for many existing
OEM, Retail, SMB, and Enterprise customers) it would seem to reason that:
- OEM's will provide 8.1U on pre-built machines
- Retail media will eventually be 8.1U but only full version

One would expect that System Builder full version media (sometimes
called OEM) in 32 or 64 bit DVD would also follow that same path.

....But releasing 8.1U as an iso in OEM form might be a stretch; as well
as OEM's providing 8.1U media or iso to any existing 8.0/8.1 customers

Thus the only route from 8.0 to 8.1 and later is via the current
methods, unless one purchases the full version 8.1 or when available the
8.1U media.

But...until the dust settles (and knowing that 8.1U is an update for
8.1) I wouldn't expect much to move too fast, even on the OEM front
(OEM's are still responsible for support for products they pre-build on
units)

Since Win7 went RTM through Sp1, I've not had any issues with clean
installing and updating it on a variety of different machines (the last
three - Micron, Acer i3, and my latest Puget Systems custom built
I7-Sabertooth Z87 unit).

--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

Todd wrote:
On 05/17/2014 05:16 PM, Paul wrote:
3) Download an 8.1 DVD. I used the double-download method
(go back to the store where you bought 8.0, pretend to download,
stop the download, restart and it starts downloading an 8.1 DVD).

Must you store the download on your local drive, or
can you point it to a network drive?


I don't know the answer to that. The download ended up in
a folder near the root of C: (maybe C:\ESD ???). And when
they do stuff like that, I doubt it was done with
flexibility in mind. Once it finishes and you've made
your ISO or whatever, you can move it off there.

Paul

BillW50 wrote, On 5/17/2014 5:19 PM:
...winston wrote
8.0 lifecycle (end of support) for program and security updates
(announced in Oct 2013) is October 2015 (two years after 8.1 release
consistent with timing for past Service Pack releases for prior
operating systems)

Wow that is really short. XPSP3 lasted for about 7 years for example.

Again looking at incorrectly, XPSP2 EOL arrived two years after XPSP3
See
http://support.microsoft.com/lifecyc...icePackSupport
qp
•When a new service pack is released, Microsoft will provide either 12
or 24 months of support for the previous service pack
/qp
and also see this
http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?c2=1173
- Note the comments on XP Sp2 relative to the beginning of support
for XPSp3 (released April 2008) where Sp2 ended in July 2010


8.1 requires (after June 9) to be updated to 8.1 Update (aka 8.1 Update
1) to receive program and security updates.

i.e
- 8.0 will continue to be offered program and security updates until
Oct. 2015 when 8.1 will be necessary.
- 8.1 on the other hand needs to be updated to 8.1 Update by June.

Wow! 8.1 is dying less than a year?

8.1 Update is 8.1 (and 8.1 Update is not a Service Pack)


--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps