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#1
June 11th 15, 05:25 AM
posted to alt.windows7.general
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8.1 or 8.1 Pro?
I'm filling a shopping cart for parts for my new system. Inlcuded is the O/S.
Realistically, do I need 8.1 or 8.1 Pro? Also, there's about a $20 difference between full version and OEM. Twenty bucks is no big deal but what's the difference between full version and OEM? Thanks. 
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#2
June 11th 15, 05:45 AM
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8.1 or 8.1 Pro?
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#3
June 11th 15, 07:40 AM
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8.1 or 8.1 Pro?
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#4
June 11th 15, 07:42 AM
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8.1 or 8.1 Pro?
On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 02:40:07 -0400, ". . .winston" wrote:
wrote: I'm filling a shopping cart for parts for my new system. Inlcuded is the O/S. Realistically, do I need 8.1 or 8.1 Pro? Also, there's about a $20 difference between full version and OEM. Twenty bucks is no big deal but what's the difference between full version and OEM? Thanks. The difference between Full version and OEM. Well both Retail and OEM media are full version. With Retail full version one receives one product key and two DVD's 32 and 64 bit. The product key can be used to install and activate 32 or 64 bit but not both. With OEM full version one receives one product key but only one DVD 32 or 64 bit not both. The product key will activate the bitness purchased. The OEM version is tied to the machine upon which it is installed. Transfer of the o/s requires transfer of the o/s and the pc. The Retail version is not tied to the machine and allows transfer of the o/s without the pc. Okay, so OEM can only be installed on one machine. I have no intention of using it on another machine. I never have. Every time I build a new system, there's a new O/S out, so I go for that one. But if need arises, can I reinstall an OEM copy on the same machine, say if I had problems with that system? Thanks.
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#5
June 11th 15, 07:42 AM
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8.1 or 8.1 Pro?
On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:45:22 +1000, Peter Jason wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 00:25:44 -0400, wrote: I'm filling a shopping cart for parts for my new system. Inlcuded is the O/S. Realistically, do I need 8.1 or 8.1 Pro? Also, there's about a $20 difference between full version and OEM. Twenty bucks is no big deal but what's the difference between full version and OEM? Thanks. One important difference is BitLocker in 8.1 pro Okay, guess I better go look up Bitlocker Thanks..
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#7
June 11th 15, 07:58 AM
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8.1 or 8.1 Pro?
wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 02:40:07 -0400, ". . .winston" wrote: wrote: I'm filling a shopping cart for parts for my new system. Inlcuded is the O/S. Realistically, do I need 8.1 or 8.1 Pro? Also, there's about a $20 difference between full version and OEM. Twenty bucks is no big deal but what's the difference between full version and OEM? Thanks. The difference between Full version and OEM. Well both Retail and OEM media are full version. With Retail full version one receives one product key and two DVD's 32 and 64 bit. The product key can be used to install and activate 32 or 64 bit but not both. With OEM full version one receives one product key but only one DVD 32 or 64 bit not both. The product key will activate the bitness purchased. The OEM version is tied to the machine upon which it is installed. Transfer of the o/s requires transfer of the o/s and the pc. The Retail version is not tied to the machine and allows transfer of the o/s without the pc. Okay, so OEM can only be installed on one machine. I have no intention of using it on another machine. I never have. Every time I build a new system, there's a new O/S out, so I go for that one. But if need arises, can I reinstall an OEM copy on the same machine, say if I had problems with that system? Thanks. Sorry...didn't answer the end question. Yes, that same OEM disk can be used to reinstall, clean install on the same machine. Note: If the machine's hardware is changed or a clean install is performed it may be necessary to use the phone instead of the automatic online activation. -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps
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#8
June 11th 15, 08:55 AM
posted to alt.windows7.general
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8.1 or 8.1 Pro?
wrote:
I'm filling a shopping cart for parts for my new system. Inlcuded is the O/S. Realistically, do I need 8.1 or 8.1 Pro? Also, there's about a $20 difference between full version and OEM. Twenty bucks is no big deal but what's the difference between full version and OEM? Thanks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_8_editions "Windows 8 Pro Windows 8 Pro is comparable to Windows 7 Professional and Ultimate and is targeted towards enthusiasts and business users; it includes all the features of Windows 8 [Core]. Additional features include the ability to receive Remote Desktop connections, the ability to participate in a Windows Server domain, Encrypting File System, Hyper-V, and Virtual Hard Disk Booting, Group Policy [gpedit] as well as BitLocker and BitLocker To Go. [Hyper-V only works if the motherboard/CPU support SLAT/EPT...] Windows Media Center functionality is available only for Windows 8 Pro as a separate software package." On Windows 7, one of the differences between versions, was support for large RAM. For example, my test install of Win7 Home Premium right now, only accesses 16GB, and my RAMDisk software is also not allowed to go above that point. If I installed Win7 Home Premium x32, it would be limited to 4GB license, but everything above 4GB would be visible to PAE and the RAMDisk could use it. Whereas Windows 8 has a flat model for memory. No screwing around. But also, in testing a few days ago, pretty disappointing speed. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...8VS.85%29.aspx Version Limit on X86 Limit on X64 Windows 8 Enterprise 4 GB 512 GB Windows 8 Professional 4 GB 512 GB Windows 8 4 GB 128 GB Just recently, a memory kit was released, that would allow a home user motherboard to reach 128GB. So it's not like as of today, this table has "margin", but it's still pretty generous. If you have extreme amounts of RAM on the computer, one thing you'll notice, is the software hardly ever "wows" you when filling it. My record so far is 6.5GB per second, fill rate. The GIMP image editor, can only fill RAM at 1GB/sec, meaning if you thought a 128GB computer would be "fast" at editing pictures, a football field sized image would take 2 minutes to load. On a large image, you might find an excess of RAM can cause a photo loading operation that takes 5 minutes, only drops to 20 seconds or so. Rather than being "instantaneous". There's no question gobs of RAM help, but if you were expecting "zap bang done", that just doesn't happen. That 20 seconds is still agony. If you run memtest86+, it does benchmarks to tell you how fast the RAM is. And it can relate a "tremendous" number for performance. And since I've looked at the source code, I can attest to what it's doing. It's reasonable code. However, depending on what software you use, you can see fairly disappointing results. In other words, once the OS is running, 4KB mapping is used for virtual memory (causing a torrent of TLB eviction), things kinda slow down. When Memtest86+ is running, it can use the largest linear mappings it can find on the processor (mine supports 2MB pages as well as 4KB pages). And then the thing smokes. When I wrote my own "malloc and memset" code, a very simple program, I could fill at 2.5GB/sec. The libc in that case, some clever programmer designs the "best possible" fill code for the memset, so you don't have to write it yourself. And I still couldn't get the blazing speed I was expecting. My WinXP machine has exhibited 4GB/sec, using slower RAM... So while the above table, has the promise of the ability to use gobs of memory, you may be disappointed with how fast it works in practice. This is one reason, when you buy gobs of RAM for a computer at my local computer store, they start asking you questions effectively amounting to "do you know what you're doing". It's because they don't want grumpy people coming back, claiming they were mislead about the benefits. It's really not money well spent, if you go above 16GB. Once in a million years, that extra RAM will wow you. And not much more often than that. I still haven't run a Streams benchmark or Sisoftware Sandra, to get the "benchmark fix" on the thing. Just some more realistic usage cases, which were disappointing. Paul
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#9
June 11th 15, 01:57 PM
posted to alt.windows7.general
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8.1 or 8.1 Pro?
What he's trying to say is that OEM can only be
installed to one setup. Full can be installed to any number, as long as it's only one at a time. Also, with OEM you're the system builder. Need support? Ask yourself.  ...Not that that probablymatters. People typically only need support for things like drivers, and you'll know about that already if you're building your own system. The difference comes into play if you somehow fry your PC and build a new one with new hardware. With OEM you're betting that won't happen. The extra cost of full is basically an insurance policy. If your first PC dies you'll be able to put Win8 on the next without buying a Windows license again. If you buy full, though, make sure it really is full. Retailers like to say things like "Full OEM". I don't know about Win8 pricing, but in the past full has typically been about $100 more than OEM.
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#10
June 11th 15, 02:03 PM
posted to alt.windows7.general
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8.1 or 8.1 Pro?
| Additional features include the ability to receive Remote Desktop | connections ?? I have friends who get tech support via remote Desktop functionality and don't have Pro. There's even a popular scam that involves getting people to download and install remote control software. Is it just that Microsoft's specific version of that doesn't work on Home? | Group Policy [gpedit] It should be noted the GPE is designed for admins to control computers on a network. Essentially it's just a front-end: Registry-for-dummies. Worse, it doesn't tell you what Registry setting each tweak is adjusting. I've always found it simpler to just cut out the middleman and look up the actual Registry setting involved in a specific tweak. Then I know how it works later and don't have to depend on GPE being available.
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#11
June 11th 15, 04:32 PM
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8.1 or 8.1 Pro?
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#12
June 11th 15, 06:25 PM
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8.1 or 8.1 Pro?
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#13
June 11th 15, 09:16 PM
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8.1 or 8.1 Pro?
On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 08:57:00 -0400, "Mayayana" wrote:
What he's trying to say is that OEM can only be installed to one setup. Full can be installed to any number, as long as it's only one at a time. Also, with OEM you're the system builder. Need support? Ask yourself. ...Not that that probablymatters. People typically only need support for things like drivers, and you'll know about that already if you're building your own system. The difference comes into play if you somehow fry your PC and build a new one with new hardware. With OEM you're betting that won't happen. The extra cost of full is basically an insurance policy. If your first PC dies you'll be able to put Win8 on the next without buying a Windows license again. If you buy full, though, make sure it really is full. Retailers like to say things like "Full OEM". I don't know about Win8 pricing, but in the past full has typically been about $100 more than OEM. I'm buying the parts and taking them to a local store I've been doing business with for over 20 years. They're going to build it for me. I'd love to try but just don't trust myself. That said, you mention "you're the system builder". Someone else doing the actuall build is alright? Thanks.
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#14
June 11th 15, 09:45 PM
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8.1 or 8.1 Pro?
| I'm buying the parts and taking them to a local store I've been doing
business | with for over 20 years. They're going to build it for me. I'd love to try but | just don't trust myself. That said, you mention "you're the system builder". | Someone else doing the actuall build is alright? Thanks. Sure, that's fine. It's just that Microsoft won't provide support for OEM. (Not that it really matters.) The builder is supposed to do that. You might find it fun to give it a try. Aside from watching out for static electricity there's really not much to it. I just use a wire that has a ground plug on one end and gets attached to the case on the other end. I then plug that wire into an outlet (the round hole in the US) and then always touch the case before touching a component. (And avoid dropping salsa or loose screws onto the motherboard.) The motherboard comes with all the details you need to know, assuming you know what parts you need. It typically takes about an hour, being careful. After installing the board and power supply, you put in the CPU, RAM, disks, cards. It can sometimes be a bit tedious figuring out which wires go on what tiny tabs on the motherboard, for the buttons, displays, etc. But it's not difficult. The one thing I don't like about it is that it's often not easy to figure out whats wrong if you have faulty hardware, unless you're an electrical specialist with all sorts of testing equipment. Faulty parts used to be more common than it is now. I don't know why. I've had many faulty RAM sticks in the past, but not in recent years. They can be very bad because the memory corruption usually corrupts your Windows install before you figure out the problem. I also once had a system that just wouldn't boot. I'd narrowed it down to either the motherboard or CPU. I'd bought those at Microcenter. They gave me a hard time and finally refused (illegally, I think) to accept the return of both parts. I never shopped at Microcenter again. They're a discount store. Often the packaging there is dented and they sell plastic wrapped hard disks out of bins. There's just no excuse for a place like that refusing returns. Since then -- close to 15 years ago now -- I've bought from Tigerdirect. So far I've never had faulty hardware from them. But I always take the approach, when figuring the cost, that I could end up needing to replace a part.
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#15
June 11th 15, 09:55 PM
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8.1 or 8.1 Pro?
On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 16:45:32 -0400, "Mayayana" wrote:
| I'm buying the parts and taking them to a local store I've been doing business | with for over 20 years. They're going to build it for me. I'd love to try but | just don't trust myself. That said, you mention "you're the system builder". | Someone else doing the actuall build is alright? Thanks. Sure, that's fine. It's just that Microsoft won't provide support for OEM. (Not that it really matters.) The builder is supposed to do that. You might find it fun to give it a try. Aside from watching out for static electricity there's really not much to it. I just use a wire that has a ground plug on one end and gets attached to the case on the other end. I then plug that wire into an outlet (the round hole in the US) and then always touch the case before touching a component. (And avoid dropping salsa or loose screws onto the motherboard.) The motherboard comes with all the details you need to know, assuming you know what parts you need. It typically takes about an hour, being careful. After installing the board and power supply, you put in the CPU, RAM, disks, cards. It can sometimes be a bit tedious figuring out which wires go on what tiny tabs on the motherboard, for the buttons, displays, etc. But it's not difficult. The one thing I don't like about it is that it's often not easy to figure out whats wrong if you have faulty hardware, unless you're an electrical specialist with all sorts of testing equipment. Faulty parts used to be more common than it is now. I don't know why. I've had many faulty RAM sticks in the past, but not in recent years. They can be very bad because the memory corruption usually corrupts your Windows install before you figure out the problem. I also once had a system that just wouldn't boot. I'd narrowed it down to either the motherboard or CPU. I'd bought those at Microcenter. They gave me a hard time and finally refused (illegally, I think) to accept the return of both parts. I never shopped at Microcenter again. They're a discount store. Often the packaging there is dented and they sell plastic wrapped hard disks out of bins. There's just no excuse for a place like that refusing returns. Since then -- close to 15 years ago now -- I've bought from Tigerdirect. So far I've never had faulty hardware from them. But I always take the approach, when figuring the cost, that I could end up needing to replace a part. Thanks for the encouragement. I guess my hangup is from when I built a machine 12 or 15 years ago. Aften installing the CPU, while trying to snap the CPU fan in place, I felt like I was going to break the motherboard. It was a tight fit and I've had worries about that ever since. I'm also not sure what's the right memory to get for the board/CPU. And then there's any settings I might have to make. As I said, I did built a couple way back when (Pentium days) and it was a most rewarding experience. But I'm just worried about screwing something up. I'd love to build it myself, since the store I use, while very dependable (20 years in the same spot) will take two or three weeks. A self build would give me the more or less instant gratification I like.
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