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#1
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
On Windows XP, I use Irfanview thumbnail-selected batch mode to JPG
lossless flip JPEG files and then Irfanview batch mode to shrink JPEG files and then add a canvas and then I use Paint.NET to add captions inside the canvas. That works fine, especially since Paint.NET is one of the best freebie editors on Windows for texting correctly (there are a zillion ways that other editors make texting hard) and especially for arrowing fantastically (again, all arrow, but there are a ton of ways to make curved arrows harder than they need to be) and for circling (again, Paint.NET just does it right). The only problem with Paint.NET is that the resulting file is ALWAYS twice the size (or so) than it needs to be. Dunno why, but I always have to run a subsequent Irfanview batch re-run just to "convert" the JPEG to JPEG of the same name but smaller size. In the Irfanview freeware, of course, there is a setting for the percent which I leave at the standard 80% and the first time you save in Paint.NET it asks you for the percentage, which I also set at 80% (which is pretty standard). So why does Irfanview invariably save the JPG files smaller? |
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#2
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
In article , Stijn De Jong
wrote: On Windows XP, I use Irfanview thumbnail-selected batch mode to JPG lossless flip JPEG files and then Irfanview batch mode to shrink JPEG files and then add a canvas and then I use Paint.NET to add captions inside the canvas. That works fine, especially since Paint.NET is one of the best freebie editors on Windows for texting correctly (there are a zillion ways that other editors make texting hard) paint.net does not text, nor does any other image editor. for that, you need a dedicated text messaging app. |
#3
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 16:00:14 -0500, nospam
wrote: In article , Stijn De Jong wrote: On Windows XP, I use Irfanview thumbnail-selected batch mode to JPG lossless flip JPEG files and then Irfanview batch mode to shrink JPEG files and then add a canvas and then I use Paint.NET to add captions inside the canvas. That works fine, especially since Paint.NET is one of the best freebie editors on Windows for texting correctly (there are a zillion ways that other editors make texting hard) paint.net does not text, nor does any other image editor. for that, you need a dedicated text messaging app. You could not figure out that a native speaker of a language other the English meant "...for adding text (to an image)"? Even reading that he uses Paint.NET to add captions? -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |
#4
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
In article , Tony Cooper
wrote: On Windows XP, I use Irfanview thumbnail-selected batch mode to JPG lossless flip JPEG files and then Irfanview batch mode to shrink JPEG files and then add a canvas and then I use Paint.NET to add captions inside the canvas. That works fine, especially since Paint.NET is one of the best freebie editors on Windows for texting correctly (there are a zillion ways that other editors make texting hard) paint.net does not text, nor does any other image editor. for that, you need a dedicated text messaging app. You could not figure out that a native speaker of a language other the English meant "...for adding text (to an image)"? that's called annotating, not texting. texting has a well defined meaning which is not the same as annotating. |
#5
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 16:42:09 -0500, nospam
wrote: In article , Tony Cooper wrote: On Windows XP, I use Irfanview thumbnail-selected batch mode to JPG lossless flip JPEG files and then Irfanview batch mode to shrink JPEG files and then add a canvas and then I use Paint.NET to add captions inside the canvas. That works fine, especially since Paint.NET is one of the best freebie editors on Windows for texting correctly (there are a zillion ways that other editors make texting hard) paint.net does not text, nor does any other image editor. for that, you need a dedicated text messaging app. You could not figure out that a native speaker of a language other the English meant "...for adding text (to an image)"? that's called annotating, not texting. texting has a well defined meaning which is not the same as annotating. Yes. It's obvious he made an error in the choice of his words. What is also obvious is that there was no need to point it out. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |
#6
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
In article , Tony Cooper
wrote: On Windows XP, I use Irfanview thumbnail-selected batch mode to JPG lossless flip JPEG files and then Irfanview batch mode to shrink JPEG files and then add a canvas and then I use Paint.NET to add captions inside the canvas. That works fine, especially since Paint.NET is one of the best freebie editors on Windows for texting correctly (there are a zillion ways that other editors make texting hard) paint.net does not text, nor does any other image editor. for that, you need a dedicated text messaging app. You could not figure out that a native speaker of a language other the English meant "...for adding text (to an image)"? that's called annotating, not texting. texting has a well defined meaning which is not the same as annotating. Yes. It's obvious he made an error in the choice of his words. What is also obvious is that there was no need to point it out. there was. |
#7
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
"Stijn De Jong" wrote
| So why does Irfanview invariably save the JPG files smaller? It's hard to know without knowing the whole process, and I've also never used Paint.Net. (It always requires the latest version of .Net, which is gigantic, so I've never tried it.) I wonder if the size difference might be happening from degradation. When you want to work on an image you should save it as BMP or TIF and only save as JPG, if you must for some reason, for a final save. The only reason I know of to use JPG is to get a small file size for use in webpages. The problem with JPG is that every save is "lossy". Even when you set no compression it's still dropping out data. So if you save in IV, then save in PN, then save again in IV, you're saving a more damaged, more simple image each time. And the first image, if it started as JPG, was already damaged. The final IV save may be smaller because the image has been degraded and therefore compresses better. |
#8
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
Stijn De Jong wrote:
On Windows XP, I use Irfanview thumbnail-selected batch mode to JPG lossless flip JPEG files and then Irfanview batch mode to shrink JPEG files and then add a canvas and then I use Paint.NET to add captions inside the canvas. That works fine, especially since Paint.NET is one of the best freebie editors on Windows for texting correctly (there are a zillion ways that other editors make texting hard) and especially for arrowing fantastically (again, all arrow, but there are a ton of ways to make curved arrows harder than they need to be) and for circling (again, Paint.NET just does it right). The only problem with Paint.NET is that the resulting file is ALWAYS twice the size (or so) than it needs to be. Dunno why, but I always have to run a subsequent Irfanview batch re-run just to "convert" the JPEG to JPEG of the same name but smaller size. In the Irfanview freeware, of course, there is a setting for the percent which I leave at the standard 80% and the first time you save in Paint.NET it asks you for the percentage, which I also set at 80% (which is pretty standard). So why does Irfanview invariably save the JPG files smaller? Find a parser and compare the structure of the files ? https://betanews.com/2016/06/27/iden...noop/#comments http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/jpegsnoop.html Paul |
#9
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 16:53:47 -0500, nospam
wrote: In article , Tony Cooper wrote: On Windows XP, I use Irfanview thumbnail-selected batch mode to JPG lossless flip JPEG files and then Irfanview batch mode to shrink JPEG files and then add a canvas and then I use Paint.NET to add captions inside the canvas. That works fine, especially since Paint.NET is one of the best freebie editors on Windows for texting correctly (there are a zillion ways that other editors make texting hard) paint.net does not text, nor does any other image editor. for that, you need a dedicated text messaging app. You could not figure out that a native speaker of a language other the English meant "...for adding text (to an image)"? that's called annotating, not texting. texting has a well defined meaning which is not the same as annotating. Yes. It's obvious he made an error in the choice of his words. What is also obvious is that there was no need to point it out. there was. Only in your little mind. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |
#10
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 18:02:22 -0500, Mayayana wrote:
It's hard to know without knowing the whole process, Hi Mayayana, Good point. Here's an easily reproduceable test I just ran for this purpose. 1. I chose an interesting photo on the web from this news article: http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/02/0...t-a-stalemate/ 2. I found various sizes for that photo, on the web: a.jpg This photo saved to a 301 KB file that was 480x640 pixels. http://www.mercurynews.com/wp-conten...de-0209-10.jpg b.jpg This photo saved to a 107 KB file that was 768x1,024 pixels. http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/57/04/25.../1024x1024.jpg c.jpg This photo saved to a 1,439 KB file that was 1,661x2,142 pixels. http://hips.htvapps.com/htv-prod-med...1486597218.jpg Here is a screenshot of the original sizes: http://i.cubeupload.com/2Vj9JN.jpg Here is the original set of files: a.jpg http://i.cubeupload.com/gJZkIv.jpg b.jpg http://i.cubeupload.com/OFO2qM.jpg c.jpg http://i.cubeupload.com/p1DwzR.jpg 3. I kept the originals in a folder called (1) and copied them to folders called (2) and (3). 4. In folder 2, I opened each file in Irfanview 4.35 on Windows XP Home, and simply saved the files (using Control+S) to the same folder with the settings of 80% with nothing else checked in the Irfanview save options form. http://i.cubeupload.com/1HpOBi.jpg 5. The result of the Irfanview "80% Quality" save was the following: a.jpg went from 301 KB to 82 KB. b.jpg went from 107 KB to 129 KB. c.jpg went from 1,439 KB to 411 KB. Screenshot: http://i.cubeupload.com/F3rx3H.jpg Here are the "80% Quality" saved set of files from Irfanview: a.jpg http://i.cubeupload.com/5CQvkX.jpg b.jpg http://i.cubeupload.com/mwVhkF.jpg c.jpg http://i.cubeupload.com/i4JRZB.jpg 6. In folder 3, I opened each file in Paint.NET v3.5.10 (Final Release build 3.510.4297.28964). I saved each file using "Control+S" with the Quality set to 80%. http://i.cubeupload.com/0Ywebc.jpg 7. The result of the Paint.NET "80% Quality" save was the following: a.jpg went from 301 KB to 86 KB. b.jpg went from 107 KB to 153 KB. c.jpg went from 1,439 KB to 417 KB. Screenshot: http://i.cubeupload.com/wVwxxW.jpg Here are the "80% Quality" saved set of files from Paint.NET: a.jpg http://i.cubeupload.com/LcLpRF.jpg b.jpg http://i.cubeupload.com/Bjwneu.jpg c.jpg http://i.cubeupload.com/jBDOQl.jpg Hmmmmmm... that's interesting. In this simplified baseline test, the file sizes didn't double going from Irfanview to Paint.NET. This is interesting because it's a good very simple baseline. So my observed doubling of sizes must be due to something else other than just "saving" the files, which happens when I "resized" in Irfanview, added a canvas in Irfanview, and then "added captions" in Paint.NET and then saved in Paint.NET (and then had to resize again in Irfanview). Hmmmm... More tests needed since the baseline test shows that the sizes are roughly equivalent. Do you concur? |
#11
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
On 2/15/2017 12:19 PM, Stijn De Jong wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 18:02:22 -0500, Mayayana wrote: It's hard to know without knowing the whole process, Hi Mayayana, Good point. Here's an easily reproduceable test I just ran for this purpose. 1. I chose an interesting photo on the web from this news article: http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/02/0...t-a-stalemate/ 2. I found various sizes for that photo, on the web: a.jpg This photo saved to a 301 KB file that was 480x640 pixels. http://www.mercurynews.com/wp-conten...de-0209-10.jpg b.jpg This photo saved to a 107 KB file that was 768x1,024 pixels. http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/57/04/25.../1024x1024.jpg c.jpg This photo saved to a 1,439 KB file that was 1,661x2,142 pixels. http://hips.htvapps.com/htv-prod-med...1486597218.jpg Here is a screenshot of the original sizes: http://i.cubeupload.com/2Vj9JN.jpg Here is the original set of files: a.jpg http://i.cubeupload.com/gJZkIv.jpg b.jpg http://i.cubeupload.com/OFO2qM.jpg c.jpg http://i.cubeupload.com/p1DwzR.jpg 3. I kept the originals in a folder called (1) and copied them to folders called (2) and (3). 4. In folder 2, I opened each file in Irfanview 4.35 on Windows XP Home, and simply saved the files (using Control+S) to the same folder with the settings of 80% with nothing else checked in the Irfanview save options form. http://i.cubeupload.com/1HpOBi.jpg 5. The result of the Irfanview "80% Quality" save was the following: a.jpg went from 301 KB to 82 KB. b.jpg went from 107 KB to 129 KB. c.jpg went from 1,439 KB to 411 KB. Screenshot: http://i.cubeupload.com/F3rx3H.jpg Here are the "80% Quality" saved set of files from Irfanview: a.jpg http://i.cubeupload.com/5CQvkX.jpg b.jpg http://i.cubeupload.com/mwVhkF.jpg c.jpg http://i.cubeupload.com/i4JRZB.jpg 6. In folder 3, I opened each file in Paint.NET v3.5.10 (Final Release build 3.510.4297.28964). I saved each file using "Control+S" with the Quality set to 80%. http://i.cubeupload.com/0Ywebc.jpg 7. The result of the Paint.NET "80% Quality" save was the following: a.jpg went from 301 KB to 86 KB. b.jpg went from 107 KB to 153 KB. c.jpg went from 1,439 KB to 417 KB. Screenshot: http://i.cubeupload.com/wVwxxW.jpg Here are the "80% Quality" saved set of files from Paint.NET: a.jpg http://i.cubeupload.com/LcLpRF.jpg b.jpg http://i.cubeupload.com/Bjwneu.jpg c.jpg http://i.cubeupload.com/jBDOQl.jpg Hmmmmmm... that's interesting. In this simplified baseline test, the file sizes didn't double going from Irfanview to Paint.NET. This is interesting because it's a good very simple baseline. So my observed doubling of sizes must be due to something else other than just "saving" the files, which happens when I "resized" in Irfanview, added a canvas in Irfanview, and then "added captions" in Paint.NET and then saved in Paint.NET (and then had to resize again in Irfanview). Hmmmm... More tests needed since the baseline test shows that the sizes are roughly equivalent. Do you concur? A jpg file's size is less related to file sizeimage dimensions than to other qualities of the image. You might save a bit of time by learning the history of the format and some ways that the images are altered during conversion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG -- best regards, Neil |
#12
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
"Stijn De Jong" wrote
| So my observed doubling of sizes must be due to something else other than | just "saving" the files, which happens when I "resized" in Irfanview, Whaddaya mean, resized? I assumed these were all images of the same pixel dimensions, but resaved and with added text. (I'm not sure what you mean by adding a canvas. A monotone rectandgle for text?) It's interesting that IV seems to have brightened the image saved, while PN didn't. Assuming you save a JPG, work on it as a JPG, and don't change the pixel dimensions, I would expect that any change on file size is resulting from lost data and therefore a simpler image that compresses better. Why not save as TIF or BMP, then do your work? From there you can then try saving to JPG and see what you get. If all of your saves are to JPG then you're not dealing with the same image each time, even if you set JPG compression at "100". (Or 0, depending on the software.) JPG always loses data with each save. |
#13
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
On 2/14/2017 4:53 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Tony Cooper wrote: On Windows XP, I use Irfanview thumbnail-selected batch mode to JPG lossless flip JPEG files and then Irfanview batch mode to shrink JPEG files and then add a canvas and then I use Paint.NET to add captions inside the canvas. That works fine, especially since Paint.NET is one of the best freebie editors on Windows for texting correctly (there are a zillion ways that other editors make texting hard) paint.net does not text, nor does any other image editor. for that, you need a dedicated text messaging app. You could not figure out that a native speaker of a language other the English meant "...for adding text (to an image)"? that's called annotating, not texting. texting has a well defined meaning which is not the same as annotating. Yes. It's obvious he made an error in the choice of his words. What is also obvious is that there was no need to point it out. there was. I agree, there was a need to point it out. The need was to satisfy your child like urge to comment. As you have so often said, "it was "picking on words." -- PeterN |
#14
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
On 2/15/2017 5:56 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Stijn De Jong" wrote | So my observed doubling of sizes must be due to something else other than | just "saving" the files, which happens when I "resized" in Irfanview, Whaddaya mean, resized? I assumed these were all images of the same pixel dimensions, but resaved and with added text. (I'm not sure what you mean by adding a canvas. A monotone rectandgle for text?) It's interesting that IV seems to have brightened the image saved, while PN didn't. Assuming you save a JPG, work on it as a JPG, and don't change the pixel dimensions, I would expect that any change on file size is resulting from lost data and therefore a simpler image that compresses better. Why not save as TIF or BMP, then do your work? From there you can then try saving to JPG and see what you get. If all of your saves are to JPG then you're not dealing with the same image each time, even if you set JPG compression at "100". (Or 0, depending on the software.) JPG always loses data with each save. Common use for method of of adding canvas, in Photoshop. https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/bluecorps/2015/11/12/adding-more-space-to-your-photoshop-canvas/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zhrQ1EyoTY -- PeterN |
#15
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:03:21 -0500, PeterN
wrote: On 2/14/2017 4:53 PM, nospam wrote: In article , Tony Cooper wrote: On Windows XP, I use Irfanview thumbnail-selected batch mode to JPG lossless flip JPEG files and then Irfanview batch mode to shrink JPEG files and then add a canvas and then I use Paint.NET to add captions inside the canvas. That works fine, especially since Paint.NET is one of the best freebie editors on Windows for texting correctly (there are a zillion ways that other editors make texting hard) paint.net does not text, nor does any other image editor. for that, you need a dedicated text messaging app. You could not figure out that a native speaker of a language other the English meant "...for adding text (to an image)"? that's called annotating, not texting. texting has a well defined meaning which is not the same as annotating. Yes. It's obvious he made an error in the choice of his words. What is also obvious is that there was no need to point it out. there was. I agree, there was a need to point it out. The need was to satisfy your child like urge to comment. As you have so often said, "it was "picking on words." He doesn't like it when his are picked on, but jumps in to pick on the word's of others when the wrong one is chosen. I would seriously doubt if anyone was confused by the OP's error. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |
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