DOS prompt

"sandy58" wrote in message

On Sep 21, 6:48 pm, "Twayne" wrote:
"Stan Brown" wrote in message

t



Sun, 20 Sep 2009 08:53:41 -0700 from Malke :

navnah wrote:

How do you leave windows to return to DOS prompt? I need to use
DOS XCOPY command to back up damaged files.

There is no DOS in Windows XP so you can't do this as you could in
Win9x/ME.

Or, to answer what the OP really wants to know, click
Start | Programs | Accessories | Command prompt.

If it's not there, click Start | Run and enter this command
cmd /k
then click OK

I will never understand why normally helpful people say "there is no
DOS" and then stop, when they know perfectly well that everyone but
a few use "DOS" as a short term for "the command prompt". Is it
technically accurate? no, but neither are lots of short forms of
speech.

Actually, Microsoft describes the Command Prompt as a DOS window
too, in so many places one could never count them. It's even in the
Help & Support area on your own computer. The proper definition is
that XP is not BUILT ON TOP OF DOS as other windws versions were and
thus is not DOS based as other windows versions were. It does in
fact still have a DOS window, found in the Command Prompt, and today
it is much more than a simple DOS emulator since it has many many
more possible commands at the user's disposal.
Purists such as you encountered are silly and nonsensical beings in
that they have no wish to help the OP but rather only wish to show
their own egoes to the world. Who cares?

You tell them, Twayne. DOS works with XP. If I can move stuff around,
get rid of files etc that won't move in Windows, et al......I have
DOS!!!! Pseudo or whatever the so-called MS fundi's want to call
it.......it's freakin' DOS!! Just because MS used the story as a sales
pitch (people were scared of DOS) "Windows XP has no DOS" these afore-
mentioned fundis use the same dogma, "No such thing as DOS in....."
till they begin to actually believe their chant.

No, I'm afraid I can't abide by that. DOS = Disk Operating System.
Windows used to work through the Disk Operating System. It still does,
but the term "Disk Operating System" is no longer relevent in XP because
the Disk Operating System meant by "DOS" doesn't exits. The "DOS" in
that case becomes something else since that operating system doesn't
exist in XP.
What DOES happen though, is that XP will run most, not all, DOS
COMMANDS such as copy, paste, del, rd, md, etc. etc.. So since it's not
an "operating system" it isn't called DOS but was instead designated as
the Command Prompt.
Not only that, but the Command Prompt, although it includes a subset
of the old DOS commands, has many more added functions and commands than
DOS ever thought of having. A list of the possible commands is actually
a very long list; longer than the old DOS commands were.
OTOH, a command window can still, by Microsoft's reasoning, be called
a DOS prompt because it is for exactly the same presentation and
purpose. You might say that the command prompt window is a DOS window
when you use it to issue DOS commands, otherwise it's a Command Prompt
Window, for issuing any of the full set of possible commands, which
simply includes a bunch of the former DOS comands and a lot more.

Now, to the purists, to say there is no Disk Operating System can be
argued to be silly, that no computer today would function without an
operating system to support the disks, or a disk operating system.
These things can be argued inifitely.
Then you get the egotists and narcissists who simply say "there is no
DOS in XP" or something similar, and then, having spouted their slime,
completely ignore the poster's real question. They had no intent other
than to say "XP doesn't have DOS" and helping anyone was the farthest
thing from their minds. Their interpersonal skills are less than
minimal and their interest in being helpful runs a close race to it.

I might myself comment that there is no real DOS in XP, but it's done as
an aside and without malice, never in a condescending manner and just to
give them a sort of basis for further discussions. And to avoid the
E&Ns of course. If someone says "DOS window", everyone knows that they
mean, and actually it's a perfectly valid term if it's used in the
context of giving DOS commands.
So in essence, I agree with you although the MSDOS Operating System
isn't what's being referred to; plain Disk Operating System is what DOS
means, and that's all.

Oh well; it's been a long dayg.

HTH,

Twayne`

"sandy58" wrote in message

On Sep 21, 6:48 pm, "Twayne" wrote:
"Stan Brown" wrote in message

t



Sun, 20 Sep 2009 08:53:41 -0700 from Malke :

navnah wrote:

How do you leave windows to return to DOS prompt? I need to use
DOS XCOPY command to back up damaged files.

There is no DOS in Windows XP so you can't do this as you could in
Win9x/ME.

Or, to answer what the OP really wants to know, click
Start | Programs | Accessories | Command prompt.

If it's not there, click Start | Run and enter this command
cmd /k
then click OK

I will never understand why normally helpful people say "there is no
DOS" and then stop, when they know perfectly well that everyone but
a few use "DOS" as a short term for "the command prompt". Is it
technically accurate? no, but neither are lots of short forms of
speech.

Actually, Microsoft describes the Command Prompt as a DOS window
too, in so many places one could never count them. It's even in the
Help & Support area on your own computer. The proper definition is
that XP is not BUILT ON TOP OF DOS as other windws versions were and
thus is not DOS based as other windows versions were. It does in
fact still have a DOS window, found in the Command Prompt, and today
it is much more than a simple DOS emulator since it has many many
more possible commands at the user's disposal.
Purists such as you encountered are silly and nonsensical beings in
that they have no wish to help the OP but rather only wish to show
their own egoes to the world. Who cares?

You tell them, Twayne. DOS works with XP. If I can move stuff around,
get rid of files etc that won't move in Windows, et al......I have
DOS!!!! Pseudo or whatever the so-called MS fundi's want to call
it.......it's freakin' DOS!! Just because MS used the story as a sales
pitch (people were scared of DOS) "Windows XP has no DOS" these afore-
mentioned fundis use the same dogma, "No such thing as DOS in....."
till they begin to actually believe their chant.

No, I'm afraid I can't abide by that. DOS = Disk Operating System.
Windows used to work through the Disk Operating System. It still does,
but the term "Disk Operating System" is no longer relevent in XP because
the Disk Operating System meant by "DOS" doesn't exits. The "DOS" in
that case becomes something else since that operating system doesn't
exist in XP.
What DOES happen though, is that XP will run most, not all, DOS
COMMANDS such as copy, paste, del, rd, md, etc. etc.. So since it's not
an "operating system" it isn't called DOS but was instead designated as
the Command Prompt.
Not only that, but the Command Prompt, although it includes a subset
of the old DOS commands, has many more added functions and commands than
DOS ever thought of having. A list of the possible commands is actually
a very long list; longer than the old DOS commands were.
OTOH, a command window can still, by Microsoft's reasoning, be called
a DOS prompt because it is for exactly the same presentation and
purpose. You might say that the command prompt window is a DOS window
when you use it to issue DOS commands, otherwise it's a Command Prompt
Window, for issuing any of the full set of possible commands, which
simply includes a bunch of the former DOS comands and a lot more.

Now, to the purists, to say there is no Disk Operating System can be
argued to be silly, that no computer today would function without an
operating system to support the disks, or a disk operating system.
These things can be argued inifitely.
Then you get the egotists and narcissists who simply say "there is no
DOS in XP" or something similar, and then, having spouted their slime,
completely ignore the poster's real question. They had no intent other
than to say "XP doesn't have DOS" and helping anyone was the farthest
thing from their minds. Their interpersonal skills are less than
minimal and their interest in being helpful runs a close race to it.

I might myself comment that there is no real DOS in XP, but it's done as
an aside and without malice, never in a condescending manner and just to
give them a sort of basis for further discussions. And to avoid the
E&Ns of course. If someone says "DOS window", everyone knows that they
mean, and actually it's a perfectly valid term if it's used in the
context of giving DOS commands.
So in essence, I agree with you although the MSDOS Operating System
isn't what's being referred to; plain Disk Operating System is what DOS
means, and that's all.

Oh well; it's been a long dayg.

HTH,

Twayne`

Original post requested command line to be able to run xcopy.

To get to command line:
start run cmd
or
start run command
or
start programs accessories command line
or
the reboot and selective startup to command line using [F8]

any of which might allow the xcopy to work as OP wants it to.

Original post requested command line to be able to run xcopy.

To get to command line:
start run cmd
or
start run command
or
start programs accessories command line
or
the reboot and selective startup to command line using [F8]

any of which might allow the xcopy to work as OP wants it to.

On Sep 22, 6:30*pm, sandy58 wrote:
On Sep 21, 6:48*pm, "Twayne" wrote:



"Stan Brown" wrote in message

et

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 08:53:41 -0700 from Malke :

navnah wrote:

How do you leave windows to return to DOS prompt? I need to use DOS
XCOPY command to back up damaged files.

There is no DOS in Windows XP so you can't do this as you could in
Win9x/ME.

Or, to answer what the OP really wants to know, click
Start | Programs | Accessories | Command prompt.

If it's not there, click Start | Run and enter this command
cmd /k
then click OK

I will never understand why normally helpful people say "there is no
DOS" and then stop, when they know perfectly well that everyone but a
few use "DOS" as a short term for "the command prompt". *Is it
technically accurate? no, but neither are lots of short forms of
speech.

Actually, Microsoft describes the Command Prompt as a DOS window too, in
so many places one could never count them. *It's even in the Help &
Support area on your own computer. *The proper definition is that XP is
not BUILT ON TOP OF *DOS as other windws versions were and thus is not
DOS based as other windows versions were. *It does in fact still have a
DOS window, found in the Command Prompt, and today it is much more than
a simple DOS emulator since it has many many more possible commands at
the user's disposal.
* *Purists such as you encountered are silly and nonsensical beings in
that they have no wish to help the OP but rather only wish to show their
own egoes to the world. *Who cares?

You tell them, Twayne. DOS works with XP. If I can move stuff around,
get rid of files etc that won't move in Windows, et al......I have
DOS!!!! Pseudo or whatever the so-called MS fundi's want to call
it.......it's freakin' DOS!! Just because MS used the story as a sales
pitch (people were scared of DOS) "Windows XP has no DOS" these afore-
mentioned fundis use the same dogma, "No such thing as DOS in....."
till they begin to actually believe their chant.

DOS does not work with XP and cannot read NTFS volumes without 3rd-
party applications such as NTFS4DOS. The command prompt is not the
DOS operating system just because it is a command-line interpreter.
This isn't just arguing semantics here, it really is NOT the same as
DOS. It isn't even an emulator. DOS is 16-bit, programs that run
under Windows XP's command line are 32-bit.

By your logic, Windows 95 is the same as XP in the Windows Classic
theme because they look similar.

Calling the command-line interpreter "DOS" is just as ignorant as
calling a computer tower or monitor the CPU.

On Sep 22, 6:30*pm, sandy58 wrote:
On Sep 21, 6:48*pm, "Twayne" wrote:



"Stan Brown" wrote in message

et

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 08:53:41 -0700 from Malke :

navnah wrote:

How do you leave windows to return to DOS prompt? I need to use DOS
XCOPY command to back up damaged files.

There is no DOS in Windows XP so you can't do this as you could in
Win9x/ME.

Or, to answer what the OP really wants to know, click
Start | Programs | Accessories | Command prompt.

If it's not there, click Start | Run and enter this command
cmd /k
then click OK

I will never understand why normally helpful people say "there is no
DOS" and then stop, when they know perfectly well that everyone but a
few use "DOS" as a short term for "the command prompt". *Is it
technically accurate? no, but neither are lots of short forms of
speech.

Actually, Microsoft describes the Command Prompt as a DOS window too, in
so many places one could never count them. *It's even in the Help &
Support area on your own computer. *The proper definition is that XP is
not BUILT ON TOP OF *DOS as other windws versions were and thus is not
DOS based as other windows versions were. *It does in fact still have a
DOS window, found in the Command Prompt, and today it is much more than
a simple DOS emulator since it has many many more possible commands at
the user's disposal.
* *Purists such as you encountered are silly and nonsensical beings in
that they have no wish to help the OP but rather only wish to show their
own egoes to the world. *Who cares?

You tell them, Twayne. DOS works with XP. If I can move stuff around,
get rid of files etc that won't move in Windows, et al......I have
DOS!!!! Pseudo or whatever the so-called MS fundi's want to call
it.......it's freakin' DOS!! Just because MS used the story as a sales
pitch (people were scared of DOS) "Windows XP has no DOS" these afore-
mentioned fundis use the same dogma, "No such thing as DOS in....."
till they begin to actually believe their chant.

DOS does not work with XP and cannot read NTFS volumes without 3rd-
party applications such as NTFS4DOS. The command prompt is not the
DOS operating system just because it is a command-line interpreter.
This isn't just arguing semantics here, it really is NOT the same as
DOS. It isn't even an emulator. DOS is 16-bit, programs that run
under Windows XP's command line are 32-bit.

By your logic, Windows 95 is the same as XP in the Windows Classic
theme because they look similar.

Calling the command-line interpreter "DOS" is just as ignorant as
calling a computer tower or monitor the CPU.

snip

In reference to Windows XP "DOS" does not refer to MS DOS, since, as
you have pointed outy elsewhere, Windows does not run on MS DOS. But
it does have a command prompt that allows one to perform disk
operations, and so say one can't refer to that as the DOS prompt is
just nit picking.

....until someone requests help in getting a DOS game to run, and the only
solution is DOSBox or similar. Then it becomes a matter of accuracy,
instead.

Still, in my book, the way the OP was phrased meant that further
explanation/education was required:

"How do you leave windows to return to DOS prompt? I need to use DOS XCOPY
command to back up damaged files."

A1) "There's no DOS in XP, end of story" is clearly inadequate and
unhelpful.

A2) "Start Run 'cmd'" doesn't address the specifically-stated desire to
"leave windows", let alone "*return* to DOS prompt".

Hopefully if the OP has read right through all responses, he/she will now
have a fuller understanding!

snip

In reference to Windows XP "DOS" does not refer to MS DOS, since, as
you have pointed outy elsewhere, Windows does not run on MS DOS. But
it does have a command prompt that allows one to perform disk
operations, and so say one can't refer to that as the DOS prompt is
just nit picking.

....until someone requests help in getting a DOS game to run, and the only
solution is DOSBox or similar. Then it becomes a matter of accuracy,
instead.

Still, in my book, the way the OP was phrased meant that further
explanation/education was required:

"How do you leave windows to return to DOS prompt? I need to use DOS XCOPY
command to back up damaged files."

A1) "There's no DOS in XP, end of story" is clearly inadequate and
unhelpful.

A2) "Start Run 'cmd'" doesn't address the specifically-stated desire to
"leave windows", let alone "*return* to DOS prompt".

Hopefully if the OP has read right through all responses, he/she will now
have a fuller understanding!

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:50:26 -0500, edfair
wrote:


Original post requested command line to be able to run xcopy.


Sorry, that's wrong. The original post said "leave windows to return
to DOS prompt."

That's very different from going to a command line, and is not
possible. What you suggest *may* work for the OP, but it is certainly
*not* what he asked for.



To get to command line:
start run cmd
or
start run command
or
start programs accessories command line
or
the reboot and selective startup to command line using [F8]

any of which might allow the xcopy to work as OP wants it to.


--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:50:26 -0500, edfair
wrote:


Original post requested command line to be able to run xcopy.


Sorry, that's wrong. The original post said "leave windows to return
to DOS prompt."

That's very different from going to a command line, and is not
possible. What you suggest *may* work for the OP, but it is certainly
*not* what he asked for.



To get to command line:
start run cmd
or
start run command
or
start programs accessories command line
or
the reboot and selective startup to command line using [F8]

any of which might allow the xcopy to work as OP wants it to.


--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

"Steve Hayes" wrote in message

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:15:25 -0700 (PDT), Hodges
wrote:

On Sep 22, 9:37 pm, Steve Hayes wrote:
DOS stands of "disk operating system".

If your computer has no disks or discs, then no DOS is needed.

But when you see the C:\ prompt (or the A:\ or B:\ or D:\
prompt) you can then give commands to the disk operating system to
perform functions like copying files from one disk to another, or
from one place on a disk to another place on the same disk, or from
a disk to a disk, or to a virtual drive like a flash drive.

How those commands are carried out depends on the overall operating
system. Windows 98 and below were GUIs that ran on top of an
operating system called MS DOS. Later versions of Windows are
operating systems in their own right, but when you give commands
like xcopy at the command promps, you are still giving commands to
the disk operating system to perform operations on the disks, which
is what the original poster wanted to do.

So all the pedantic twaddle to avoid answering the question is just
a waste of space.

Copying files is a Disk Operation, and therefore it is a function
of the DOS, whether that DOS is built in to Windows or whether
Windows is a GUI running on top of it.

"DOS" is a group of similar operating systems, it is not meant to
represent any operating system that can manipulate disks, since that
would include nearly any OS since the 80s. It is generally
understood to mean MS-DOS or PC-DOS. In reference to Windows, it is
universally understood to mean MS-DOS. When referring to Windows,
it can be safely assumed that somebody referring to "DOS" does not
mean AmigaDOS, Commodore DOS, Atari DOS, or any other form of DOS.
You either don't understand what it is, or realize that you are
wrong and are just arguing for the sake of sounding right.

In reference to Windows XP "DOS" does not refer to MS DOS, since, as
you have pointed outy elsewhere, Windows does not run on MS DOS. But
it does have a command prompt that allows one to perform disk
operations, and so say one can't refer to that as the DOS prompt is
just nit picking.

Exactly, and an action that never does the OP any good when it's used in
the method that started this thread; "there is no DOS" unsupported
comments. Since XP doesn't have an OS-DOS, the most one should need to
explain is a possible aside that to get to that DOS window, you use the
Command Prompt. Command Prompt is a nice, generic term for the process.
Thus, the Command Prompt allows you to use it as a DOS window to issue
most of the MSDOS commands. But it allows you to issue a lot of other,
post-DOS commands too that were added to XP for the Command Mode, to be
used in the Command Prompt.

Cheers,

Twayne`

"Steve Hayes" wrote in message

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:15:25 -0700 (PDT), Hodges
wrote:

On Sep 22, 9:37 pm, Steve Hayes wrote:
DOS stands of "disk operating system".

If your computer has no disks or discs, then no DOS is needed.

But when you see the C:\ prompt (or the A:\ or B:\ or D:\
prompt) you can then give commands to the disk operating system to
perform functions like copying files from one disk to another, or
from one place on a disk to another place on the same disk, or from
a disk to a disk, or to a virtual drive like a flash drive.

How those commands are carried out depends on the overall operating
system. Windows 98 and below were GUIs that ran on top of an
operating system called MS DOS. Later versions of Windows are
operating systems in their own right, but when you give commands
like xcopy at the command promps, you are still giving commands to
the disk operating system to perform operations on the disks, which
is what the original poster wanted to do.

So all the pedantic twaddle to avoid answering the question is just
a waste of space.

Copying files is a Disk Operation, and therefore it is a function
of the DOS, whether that DOS is built in to Windows or whether
Windows is a GUI running on top of it.

"DOS" is a group of similar operating systems, it is not meant to
represent any operating system that can manipulate disks, since that
would include nearly any OS since the 80s. It is generally
understood to mean MS-DOS or PC-DOS. In reference to Windows, it is
universally understood to mean MS-DOS. When referring to Windows,
it can be safely assumed that somebody referring to "DOS" does not
mean AmigaDOS, Commodore DOS, Atari DOS, or any other form of DOS.
You either don't understand what it is, or realize that you are
wrong and are just arguing for the sake of sounding right.

In reference to Windows XP "DOS" does not refer to MS DOS, since, as
you have pointed outy elsewhere, Windows does not run on MS DOS. But
it does have a command prompt that allows one to perform disk
operations, and so say one can't refer to that as the DOS prompt is
just nit picking.

Exactly, and an action that never does the OP any good when it's used in
the method that started this thread; "there is no DOS" unsupported
comments. Since XP doesn't have an OS-DOS, the most one should need to
explain is a possible aside that to get to that DOS window, you use the
Command Prompt. Command Prompt is a nice, generic term for the process.
Thus, the Command Prompt allows you to use it as a DOS window to issue
most of the MSDOS commands. But it allows you to issue a lot of other,
post-DOS commands too that were added to XP for the Command Mode, to be
used in the Command Prompt.

Cheers,

Twayne`

"Olórin" wrote in message

snip

In reference to Windows XP "DOS" does not refer to MS DOS, since, as
you have pointed outy elsewhere, Windows does not run on MS DOS. But
it does have a command prompt that allows one to perform disk
operations, and so say one can't refer to that as the DOS prompt is
just nit picking.

...until someone requests help in getting a DOS game to run, and the
only solution is DOSBox or similar. Then it becomes a matter of
accuracy, instead.

Still, in my book, the way the OP was phrased meant that further
explanation/education was required:

"How do you leave windows to return to DOS prompt? I need to use DOS
XCOPY command to back up damaged files."

A1) "There's no DOS in XP, end of story" is clearly inadequate and
unhelpful.

A2) "Start Run 'cmd'" doesn't address the specifically-stated
desire to "leave windows", let alone "*return* to DOS prompt".

Hopefully if the OP has read right through all responses, he/she will
now have a fuller understanding!

All excellent points.

Twayne`

"Olórin" wrote in message

snip

In reference to Windows XP "DOS" does not refer to MS DOS, since, as
you have pointed outy elsewhere, Windows does not run on MS DOS. But
it does have a command prompt that allows one to perform disk
operations, and so say one can't refer to that as the DOS prompt is
just nit picking.

...until someone requests help in getting a DOS game to run, and the
only solution is DOSBox or similar. Then it becomes a matter of
accuracy, instead.

Still, in my book, the way the OP was phrased meant that further
explanation/education was required:

"How do you leave windows to return to DOS prompt? I need to use DOS
XCOPY command to back up damaged files."

A1) "There's no DOS in XP, end of story" is clearly inadequate and
unhelpful.

A2) "Start Run 'cmd'" doesn't address the specifically-stated
desire to "leave windows", let alone "*return* to DOS prompt".

Hopefully if the OP has read right through all responses, he/she will
now have a fuller understanding!

All excellent points.

Twayne`

"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote in message

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:50:26 -0500, edfair
wrote:


Original post requested command line to be able to run xcopy.


Sorry, that's wrong. The original post said "leave windows to return
to DOS prompt."

That's very different from going to a command line, and is not
possible. What you suggest *may* work for the OP, but it is certainly
*not* what he asked for.



To get to command line:
start run cmd
or
start run command
or
start programs accessories command line
or
the reboot and selective startup to command line using [F8]

any of which might allow the xcopy to work as OP wants it to.

Once again, the fantASStic MVP stated what was wrong, but not what was
right to do.

To achieve the same affect, one simply opens the Command Prompt, often
referred to as the DOS window as a matter of fact. You're still in XP,
but you're in a mode that may run DOS games, commands, etc., depending
on the game/command etc..

I suspect the OP has left this thread with the firm idea that it's
comprised of nothing but butt-heads, and impossible to tell who to
believe or what to believe, and disgusted thanks to the likes of answers
you often give. He'd be right, too: You and others like you have turned
this into a nearly useless group for anyone lacking the expertise to
phrase things exactly as YOU want to see them phrased. Good evidence of
that is your negative statement and lack of addressing the OP's needs.
You need to return to the Clarification and Verification chapters of
Interpersonal Skills assessment.
I'll bet the OP doesn't even CARE whether he "leaves" XP or not,
that's just the best way he had of explaining what his experience is.
All he wanted to know really is how to use the DOS facilities of XP.
And you never gave a positive response to that question.

HTH,

Twayne`