Vista I will not be buying

If someone sends you an ecrypted e-mail, do you want everyone to be able to
see the clear-text version, or just you?

What if a movie rental company sends you an encrypted version of a movie
that you rented online. Should anyone in the world be able to read it?

Why would you want an operating system that does not allow you, and only you
to view protected content?



"GregRo" wrote:

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 20:20:22 GMT, Leythos wrote:

In article , webworm12
says...
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 18:47:33 GMT, Leythos wrote:

In article , says...
I apologize for the rant.

http://snipurl.com/hbl7

I have made my decision

Vista I will not be buying.

No one is not going to tell me. I can't have access to a part of the
computer or the hard drive. Imagine if a virus, spyware or adaware
got into that protected area and a virus program could not clean it.

I'm Sticking with xp & windows 98se forever.

If I have to get a new computer it will be either mac or linux system.

So, what you're saying, is that you want the option to be able to steal
media if you choose and it's not the right of the OS vendor to limit you
in any way?

Quit putting words into my mouth. I did not say I had the right to
steal.

The OS should not be able to control what I do or don't do period.
That not the operating system responsibility. That is mine. I want
to see everything and have access to everything on the computer
period.

Let use this analogy.
Some one builds you a home.
They put a private room in
Only Microsoft and Certain people can use it. You are not allowed
access to it. Even through it is in your own house.

Lets see, you buy an OS, it permits you to do anything legal that you
want, you can copy music, you can copy video, all as long as you have a
legal right to it - what part are you left without?

Your analogy should be more like:

You buy a house.
You want to make crack in it.
The government has rules against it - you have a choice.
You start making crack.
You get your home taken away by the government.



My point is I want to have access to everything on may hard drive and
in my computer.

If I choose to break a law that is my choice not the operating system.
I don't need a net nanny that for kids. Which I don't break any laws
for the record. Microsoft and Hollywood assumes everyone is a
criminal out to get them.

What if a virus, spyware, or adware program got into the protected
area and the virus, spyware or adware protection program could not
clean it out? This will happen.

If you want to buy vista go right ahead. I made my decision based on
those and other articles.

If every I do get vista is will be only because a job requires or
Microsoft sent me a free version


Greg Ro

You don't understand how DRM works. It does not prevent deleting or copying.
It only prevents unauthorized copies from being decrypted.

It's the same as when you receive an encrypted e-mail in Outlook from a
friend. You can still delete or copy the file if you want. However, it cannot
be read by unauthorized parties that intercept it.

What you are asking for is an operating system that would convert all
encrypted content to clear-text format....that's a bad idea.

"David Schwartz" wrote:


"Leythos" wrote in message
...

There is no "Protected Area" there is just a restriction on what you can
copy. Where do you get the idea that there is some magical area reserved
on your drive?

Your assumption about "protected area" is wrong, as is your reasoning.

Suppose a virus or other piece of malware managed to protect itself such
that I could not copy it. That would mean that I could not send it to an
expert for analysis or copy it onto another uninfected machine myself to
figure out how to disentangle it from my system.

Right?

DS

Digital Rights Management does not prevent copying or deleting.

"David Schwartz" wrote:


"Leythos" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"Leythos" wrote in message
...

There is no "Protected Area" there is just a restriction on what you
can
copy. Where do you get the idea that there is some magical area
reserved
on your drive?

Your assumption about "protected area" is wrong, as is your reasoning.

Suppose a virus or other piece of malware managed to protect itself
such
that I could not copy it. That would mean that I could not send it to an
expert for analysis or copy it onto another uninfected machine myself to
figure out how to disentangle it from my system.

It doesn't say that it will block access to files at the kernel layer,
only that you won't be able to pirate them - why would you assume that
virus scanners and such won't find them or that you can't delete them.

It is already difficult to delete some viruses and malware. Being unable
to copy them (so that they can be analyzed on a clean machine or sent to an
expert) could definitely make things much harder.

DS

Digital Rights Management is already used in Windows (in Windows Media
Player, and Media Center). I can buy music, rent movies, and backup my files.
I can copy my media to my portable device, CD, or laptop computer...they work
just fine. DRM does not prevent legitimate use including use on multiple
devices, and it does not prevent backing up.

Vista is simply extending DRM to TVs and monitors that may support it in the
future. If you're not interested in using these future TVs, then it doesn't
matter what operating system you use. If you want to take advantage of the
new hardware, you will need an operating system that supports it (whether
Windows or some other operating system).

"Peter A. Stavrakoglou" wrote:

"Leythos" wrote in message
...
In article , says...
I apologize for the rant.

http://snipurl.com/hbl7

I have made my decision

Vista I will not be buying.

No one is not going to tell me. I can't have access to a part of the
computer or the hard drive. Imagine if a virus, spyware or adaware
got into that protected area and a virus program could not clean it.

I'm Sticking with xp & windows 98se forever.

If I have to get a new computer it will be either mac or linux system.

So, what you're saying, is that you want the option to be able to steal
media if you choose and it's not the right of the OS vendor to limit you
in any way?

I'm not sure exactly what restrictions Vista will have, as well as other
electronic devices, but some of us have an "issue" with what is considered
fair use. Will Vista prohibit me from burning a backup CD of software or
music? I'm entitled to do so, IMO. This is not a piracy issue in my case,
although I can see it being so for some others.

Ed wrote:
You don't understand how DRM works. It does not prevent deleting or copying.
It only prevents unauthorized copies from being decrypted.

It's the same as when you receive an encrypted e-mail in Outlook from a
friend. You can still delete or copy the file if you want. However, it cannot
be read by unauthorized parties that intercept it.

What you are asking for is an operating system that would convert all
encrypted content to clear-text format....that's a bad idea.



And you have never had DRM technology screw up on you seemingly.

DRM, depending on the terms of use for the specific media, is meant to
limit or stop these exact things. Have you ever read the iTunes terms
of use for music purchased there? It specifically states that you are
limited in the number of times you can burn each song to a cd or copy it.

DRM in WinXP, Product activation doesn't work the way it is supposed to
way too often. Many times activation over the internet should work, but
does not. See the below link.

http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/wpa.html

Technologies like this DO NOT prevent pirating of media and software, it
just treats consumers like criminals.

--
capitan

Or unauthorised monitors playing the video. Your current computer will refuse to play DRM videos

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Goodbye Web Diary
http://margokingston.typepad.com/har....html#comments
=================================================
"capitan" wrote in message ...
Ed wrote:
You don't understand how DRM works. It does not prevent deleting or copying.
It only prevents unauthorized copies from being decrypted.

It's the same as when you receive an encrypted e-mail in Outlook from a
friend. You can still delete or copy the file if you want. However, it cannot
be read by unauthorized parties that intercept it.

What you are asking for is an operating system that would convert all
encrypted content to clear-text format....that's a bad idea.



And you have never had DRM technology screw up on you seemingly.

DRM, depending on the terms of use for the specific media, is meant to
limit or stop these exact things. Have you ever read the iTunes terms
of use for music purchased there? It specifically states that you are
limited in the number of times you can burn each song to a cd or copy it.

DRM in WinXP, Product activation doesn't work the way it is supposed to
way too often. Many times activation over the internet should work, but
does not. See the below link.

http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/wpa.html

Technologies like this DO NOT prevent pirating of media and software, it
just treats consumers like criminals.

--
capitan

My biggest concern with all "DRM" is it's longevity and reliability.

So far it has been a Create New process, somebody breaks it
and then it all starts over again. Most PC users cannot keep up
with simple things like Product Keys and Passwords. Image a few
years from now when you need Version 1.2a7 and encryption
package 2.a to play your iTunes 1-27 and another version to get
songs 27-51 to play.

I deal with customers all the time who have these extensive libraries
of DRM music and no inkling how or why to back it up. I'm not
against DRM per-say, but to me it's a make-it-up as you go kind
of technology. One thing today, a new one tomorrow.

"David Candy" . wrote in message
...
Or unauthorised monitors playing the video. Your current computer will
refuse to play DRM videos

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Goodbye Web Diary
http://margokingston.typepad.com/har....html#comments
=================================================
"capitan" wrote in message
...
Ed wrote:
You don't understand how DRM works. It does not prevent deleting or
copying.
It only prevents unauthorized copies from being decrypted.

It's the same as when you receive an encrypted e-mail in Outlook from a
friend. You can still delete or copy the file if you want. However, it
cannot
be read by unauthorized parties that intercept it.

What you are asking for is an operating system that would convert all
encrypted content to clear-text format....that's a bad idea.



And you have never had DRM technology screw up on you seemingly.

DRM, depending on the terms of use for the specific media, is meant to
limit or stop these exact things. Have you ever read the iTunes terms
of use for music purchased there? It specifically states that you are
limited in the number of times you can burn each song to a cd or copy it.

DRM in WinXP, Product activation doesn't work the way it is supposed to
way too often. Many times activation over the internet should work, but
does not. See the below link.

http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/wpa.html

Technologies like this DO NOT prevent pirating of media and software, it
just treats consumers like criminals.

--
capitan

I'm a fan of normal CDs. Lucky I don't listen to anything newer than 1990.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Goodbye Web Diary
http://margokingston.typepad.com/har....html#comments
=================================================
"R. McCarty" wrote in message ...
My biggest concern with all "DRM" is it's longevity and reliability.

So far it has been a Create New process, somebody breaks it
and then it all starts over again. Most PC users cannot keep up
with simple things like Product Keys and Passwords. Image a few
years from now when you need Version 1.2a7 and encryption
package 2.a to play your iTunes 1-27 and another version to get
songs 27-51 to play.

I deal with customers all the time who have these extensive libraries
of DRM music and no inkling how or why to back it up. I'm not
against DRM per-say, but to me it's a make-it-up as you go kind
of technology. One thing today, a new one tomorrow.

"David Candy" . wrote in message
...
Or unauthorised monitors playing the video. Your current computer will
refuse to play DRM videos

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Goodbye Web Diary
http://margokingston.typepad.com/har....html#comments
=================================================
"capitan" wrote in message
...
Ed wrote:
You don't understand how DRM works. It does not prevent deleting or
copying.
It only prevents unauthorized copies from being decrypted.

It's the same as when you receive an encrypted e-mail in Outlook from a
friend. You can still delete or copy the file if you want. However, it
cannot
be read by unauthorized parties that intercept it.

What you are asking for is an operating system that would convert all
encrypted content to clear-text format....that's a bad idea.



And you have never had DRM technology screw up on you seemingly.

DRM, depending on the terms of use for the specific media, is meant to
limit or stop these exact things. Have you ever read the iTunes terms
of use for music purchased there? It specifically states that you are
limited in the number of times you can burn each song to a cd or copy it.

DRM in WinXP, Product activation doesn't work the way it is supposed to
way too often. Many times activation over the internet should work, but
does not. See the below link.

http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/wpa.html

Technologies like this DO NOT prevent pirating of media and software, it
just treats consumers like criminals.

--
capitan

Actually, I've "Digitized" all my music and have it in a pure form.

Unless somebody figures out how to encrypt air molecules I'm
set.

I would say my collection probably stops at around 1977-78.
(Disco came on the scene around then, "Saturday Night Fever"..)

Our neighborhood Record shop does almost all it's business now
in Used CDs.


"David Candy" . wrote in message
...
I'm a fan of normal CDs. Lucky I don't listen to anything newer than 1990.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Goodbye Web Diary
http://margokingston.typepad.com/har....html#comments
=================================================
"R. McCarty" wrote in message
...
My biggest concern with all "DRM" is it's longevity and reliability.

So far it has been a Create New process, somebody breaks it
and then it all starts over again. Most PC users cannot keep up
with simple things like Product Keys and Passwords. Image a few
years from now when you need Version 1.2a7 and encryption
package 2.a to play your iTunes 1-27 and another version to get
songs 27-51 to play.

I deal with customers all the time who have these extensive libraries
of DRM music and no inkling how or why to back it up. I'm not
against DRM per-say, but to me it's a make-it-up as you go kind
of technology. One thing today, a new one tomorrow.

"David Candy" . wrote in message
...
Or unauthorised monitors playing the video. Your current computer will
refuse to play DRM videos

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Goodbye Web Diary
http://margokingston.typepad.com/har....html#comments
=================================================
"capitan" wrote in message
...
Ed wrote:
You don't understand how DRM works. It does not prevent deleting or
copying.
It only prevents unauthorized copies from being decrypted.

It's the same as when you receive an encrypted e-mail in Outlook from a
friend. You can still delete or copy the file if you want. However, it
cannot
be read by unauthorized parties that intercept it.

What you are asking for is an operating system that would convert all
encrypted content to clear-text format....that's a bad idea.



And you have never had DRM technology screw up on you seemingly.

DRM, depending on the terms of use for the specific media, is meant to
limit or stop these exact things. Have you ever read the iTunes terms
of use for music purchased there? It specifically states that you are
limited in the number of times you can burn each song to a cd or copy it.

DRM in WinXP, Product activation doesn't work the way it is supposed to
way too often. Many times activation over the internet should work, but
does not. See the below link.

http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/wpa.html

Technologies like this DO NOT prevent pirating of media and software, it
just treats consumers like criminals.

--
capitan

I only have CDs from Enigma (one of theirs is the 1990 one), Led Zepp, Pink Floyd, Dire Straits, and Kate Bush.

These are the ones that have withstood the test of time.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Goodbye Web Diary
http://margokingston.typepad.com/har....html#comments
=================================================
"R. McCarty" wrote in message ...
Actually, I've "Digitized" all my music and have it in a pure form.

Unless somebody figures out how to encrypt air molecules I'm
set.

I would say my collection probably stops at around 1977-78.
(Disco came on the scene around then, "Saturday Night Fever"..)

Our neighborhood Record shop does almost all it's business now
in Used CDs.


"David Candy" . wrote in message
...
I'm a fan of normal CDs. Lucky I don't listen to anything newer than 1990.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Goodbye Web Diary
http://margokingston.typepad.com/har....html#comments
=================================================
"R. McCarty" wrote in message
...
My biggest concern with all "DRM" is it's longevity and reliability.

So far it has been a Create New process, somebody breaks it
and then it all starts over again. Most PC users cannot keep up
with simple things like Product Keys and Passwords. Image a few
years from now when you need Version 1.2a7 and encryption
package 2.a to play your iTunes 1-27 and another version to get
songs 27-51 to play.

I deal with customers all the time who have these extensive libraries
of DRM music and no inkling how or why to back it up. I'm not
against DRM per-say, but to me it's a make-it-up as you go kind
of technology. One thing today, a new one tomorrow.

"David Candy" . wrote in message
...
Or unauthorised monitors playing the video. Your current computer will
refuse to play DRM videos

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Goodbye Web Diary
http://margokingston.typepad.com/har....html#comments
=================================================
"capitan" wrote in message
...
Ed wrote:
You don't understand how DRM works. It does not prevent deleting or
copying.
It only prevents unauthorized copies from being decrypted.

It's the same as when you receive an encrypted e-mail in Outlook from a
friend. You can still delete or copy the file if you want. However, it
cannot
be read by unauthorized parties that intercept it.

What you are asking for is an operating system that would convert all
encrypted content to clear-text format....that's a bad idea.



And you have never had DRM technology screw up on you seemingly.

DRM, depending on the terms of use for the specific media, is meant to
limit or stop these exact things. Have you ever read the iTunes terms
of use for music purchased there? It specifically states that you are
limited in the number of times you can burn each song to a cd or copy it.

DRM in WinXP, Product activation doesn't work the way it is supposed to
way too often. Many times activation over the internet should work, but
does not. See the below link.

http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/wpa.html

Technologies like this DO NOT prevent pirating of media and software, it
just treats consumers like criminals.

--
capitan

Yes, I'm aware that there is a limit on the number of copies you can make.
That's the whole point of DRM. You can make legitimate copies (for example on
MSN Music, you can make 7 copies)...If you need more copies, you can always
purchase another license.

There may be occasional glitches with the technology, but that's the case
with all complex software...it's not a reason to abandon technology
altogether.

DRM is no different than any secure method of communication.

If I have private content on a server, I can limit the users to just those
that I authorize using VPN.

If I have a private e-mail, I can encrypt it so that only my designated
recipient can open it.

If I have music or video content, I can encrypt it so that only authorized
purchasers can view or listen.

If you are in favor of eliminating protection on content, then you lose not
only the ability to secure music an movies, but also lose all secure
communications, including secure e-mail.

"capitan" wrote:

Ed wrote:
You don't understand how DRM works. It does not prevent deleting or copying.
It only prevents unauthorized copies from being decrypted.

It's the same as when you receive an encrypted e-mail in Outlook from a
friend. You can still delete or copy the file if you want. However, it cannot
be read by unauthorized parties that intercept it.

What you are asking for is an operating system that would convert all
encrypted content to clear-text format....that's a bad idea.



And you have never had DRM technology screw up on you seemingly.

DRM, depending on the terms of use for the specific media, is meant to
limit or stop these exact things. Have you ever read the iTunes terms
of use for music purchased there? It specifically states that you are
limited in the number of times you can burn each song to a cd or copy it.

DRM in WinXP, Product activation doesn't work the way it is supposed to
way too often. Many times activation over the internet should work, but
does not. See the below link.

http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/wpa.html

Technologies like this DO NOT prevent pirating of media and software, it
just treats consumers like criminals.

--
capitan

Most likely there would be no blocking of analog output.

The idea would be to prevent an unencrypted digital output from being
captured and illegally copied.

"David Candy" wrote:

Or unauthorised monitors playing the video. Your current computer will refuse to play DRM videos

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Goodbye Web Diary
http://margokingston.typepad.com/har....html#comments
=================================================
"capitan" wrote in message ...
Ed wrote:
You don't understand how DRM works. It does not prevent deleting or copying.
It only prevents unauthorized copies from being decrypted.

It's the same as when you receive an encrypted e-mail in Outlook from a
friend. You can still delete or copy the file if you want. However, it cannot
be read by unauthorized parties that intercept it.

What you are asking for is an operating system that would convert all
encrypted content to clear-text format....that's a bad idea.



And you have never had DRM technology screw up on you seemingly.

DRM, depending on the terms of use for the specific media, is meant to
limit or stop these exact things. Have you ever read the iTunes terms
of use for music purchased there? It specifically states that you are
limited in the number of times you can burn each song to a cd or copy it.

DRM in WinXP, Product activation doesn't work the way it is supposed to
way too often. Many times activation over the internet should work, but
does not. See the below link.

http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/wpa.html

Technologies like this DO NOT prevent pirating of media and software, it
just treats consumers like criminals.

--
capitan