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#61
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
Mark M wrote:
"Bill Van Dyk" wrote in message ... My point is that when we as consumers flock to a particular standard simply because it appears to be winning the market place, we end up with crap like VHS and USB and Celine Dionne instead of Beta and Firewire and Lucinda Williams. There are often good reasons for making decisions based on pure technical considerations and fighting for competition in the marketplace, which ultimately benefits all consumers. In fact, when curmudgeonly people like myself resist the herd mentality and buy products that haven't won wide acceptance but are technically superior, we do a service for all consumers, by sustaining competition and demanding better performance from manufacturers. In other words, people should think for themselves. The reason we have to put up with so much bad software, stupid laws, and annoying celebrities, is because sometimes we behave like sheep. So which of my devices should I have refused to purchase since they weren't available with firewire? My 10D? Any of my other 25 currently used USB devices? Which ones should I have passed by in the name of firewire? The ones that don't work as expected? heh -- Shenan Stanley "Just trying to help" |
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#62
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
A voice of reason on usenet.
Thanks "Keith" == Keith Clark writes: Keith There's a place for both. If you're using a digital video Keith camcorder the only meaningful option is IEEE-1394 as Firewire Keith is correctly called, because that's the defacto industry Keith standard. Keith By the same token if you're using external hard drives you're Keith better off with Firewire than USB because you can capture Keith directly to the drive from your camcorder without sucking up Keith CPU cycles which can be important for video. Keith --Keith Keith Stanley Krute wrote: Hi Bill Sorry you don't like USB. I like it a lot. My computer clients/customers like it. It generally Just Works. It's made lots of stuff that used to be a headache easy. Just today I'm working on a customer's older laptop, which lacks any network connectivity. Plugged in a lovely LinkSys USB net adapter, size of a gnat, and am thus able to back up his hard drive and do other shmootz over the network here in the Plywood Labooratory. This particular device astonishes me, both by its size and JustWorks functionality. I'm geezer enough to remember LAN adapters from the late 1980's, huge brain-dead fussy boards that'd be a complete butt-pain to install and get running correctly. As far as cameras having issues with USB connections: my personal sniff is that results from the general situation of camera companies writing crappy software. I sell all my customers a manyFormats-in-one memory card reader, either internal or external, and show them how to use that. I advise them against using ANY camera manufacture software, unless it's a RAW converter whose functionality is nowhere else obtainable. Regards, Stan ps -- On new computers that I build, I recommend that folks let me give them both USB AND Firewire functionality, with built-in front-panel ports. Most folks eschew the Firewire part, unless they're going to be doing video editing, in which case it's a no-brainer easy-sell. |
#63
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
"Shenan T. Stanley" wrote in message ... Mark M wrote: "Bill Van Dyk" wrote in message ... My point is that when we as consumers flock to a particular standard simply because it appears to be winning the market place, we end up with crap like VHS and USB and Celine Dionne instead of Beta and Firewire and Lucinda Williams. There are often good reasons for making decisions based on pure technical considerations and fighting for competition in the marketplace, which ultimately benefits all consumers. In fact, when curmudgeonly people like myself resist the herd mentality and buy products that haven't won wide acceptance but are technically superior, we do a service for all consumers, by sustaining competition and demanding better performance from manufacturers. In other words, people should think for themselves. The reason we have to put up with so much bad software, stupid laws, and annoying celebrities, is because sometimes we behave like sheep. So which of my devices should I have refused to purchase since they weren't available with firewire? My 10D? Any of my other 25 currently used USB devices? Which ones should I have passed by in the name of firewire? The ones that don't work as expected? heh OK. That would be none of them. They all work quite nicely. |
#64
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
On 3 Dec 2003 12:58:11 -0600, "Howard McCollister"
wrote: I doubt that Apple had any expectation that firewire would become the peripheral bus of choice as opposed to USB Wasn't firwire also orginally emant to be a low-cost high-speed network solution? Which then niftly was used by Sony etc as an ideal thing to transport high-speed data around. Firewire can handle tcp/ip cheers -martin- -- filmmaker/DP/editor, Sydney, Australia http://www.pictocrime.com |
#65
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
Finally, yeah.
Firewire worked fabulously for many years before USB finally became at all functional. The only reason USB even remained in the market is because of the dominant position of Wintel, which is able to shove deficient and defective technologies down our throats. Now, users say, what's the problem-- USB works fine! Yes, now it finally does. By preventing real competition, Intel and Windows were able to finally correct the deficiencies in USB without losing any customers. There must be days when the business staff at Intel and Microsoft actually get a little weepy at the touching loyalty of their customers, in the face of their monumental failures, incompetences, and exaggerations. "You people out there are are just too good to be true! We love you!" Regardless, I'm glad to hear that USB finally works. Mark M wrote: They all work quite nicely. |
#66
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
On 12/4/03 3:36 PM, in article ,
"Bill Van Dyk" wrote: There must be days when the business staff at Intel and Microsoft actually get a little weepy at the touching loyalty of their customers, in the face of their monumental failures, incompetences, and exaggerations. "You people out there are are just too good to be true! We love you!" Nelson Mandella is now working in their Public Relations department? __________________________________________________ _____________________________ Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com The Worlds Uncensored News Source |
#67
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
Hi Bill
By preventing real competition, Intel and Windows That's so true, I almost forget, it was that pesky Bill Gates and Andy Grove who told Steve Jobs to kill the Mac clone market, and thereby erase any chance of free-market OS competition. Thanks for the reminder ! Stan |
#68
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
In article , George Kerby wrote:
On 12/4/03 3:36 PM, in article , "Bill Van Dyk" wrote: There must be days when the business staff at Intel and Microsoft actually get a little weepy at the touching loyalty of their customers, in the face of their monumental failures, incompetences, and exaggerations. "You people out there are are just too good to be true! We love you!" Nelson Mandella is now working in their Public Relations department? ___ They can have him, Mandella , the wonderfull humanitarian (not) that he claims to be basically said the people who died in 9/11 deserved it. |
#69
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
There must be days when the business staff at Intel and Microsoft actually
get a little weepy at the touching loyalty of their customers, in the face of their monumental failures, incompetences, and exaggerations. "You people out there are are just too good to be true! We love you!" Do you have any idea how annoyed and disappointed I've been with Microsoft of the years? I am no Microsoft loyalist... But--I am willing to identify improvements when they are clear and substantial. When the programs I prefer become available on a different OS that is better...and that doesn't cripple me with incompatibilities, I'll be first in line to buy it adn throw out my MS OS. |
#70
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
"Bill Van Dyk" wrote ...
Firewire worked fabulously for many years before USB finally became at all functional. The only reason USB even remained in the market is because of the dominant position of Wintel, which is able to shove deficient and defective technologies down our throats. Now, users say, what's the problem-- USB works fine! Yes, now it finally does. As a hardware designer, I can assure you that where IEEE 1394 is great for a few bus devices running high rates, USB is much better for multiple low- to moderate-rate devices. If IEEE 1394 were the ultimate all-purpose bus, why was Apple, inventor of Firewire (IEEE 1394) one of the very first to use USB for keyboards and mice? (Even before "Wintel" IIRC) By preventing real competition, Intel and Windows were able to finally correct the deficiencies in USB without losing any customers. LOL! They don't sell Apple on your planet? :-) |
#71
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
"Richard Crowley" wrote in message ...
"Bill Van Dyk" wrote ... Firewire worked fabulously for many years before USB finally became at all functional. The only reason USB even remained in the market is because of the dominant position of Wintel, which is able to shove deficient and defective technologies down our throats. Now, users say, what's the problem-- USB works fine! Yes, now it finally does. As a hardware designer, I can assure you that where IEEE 1394 is great for a few bus devices running high rates, USB is much better for multiple low- to moderate-rate devices. FireWire (AKA IEEE 1394a or Sony iLink) was never meant to serve low-speed devices such as a keyboard or mouse. It's also a more expensive technology to implement. If IEEE 1394 were the ultimate all-purpose bus, why was Apple, inventor of Firewire (IEEE 1394) one of the very first to use USB for keyboards and mice? (Even before "Wintel" IIRC) Apple has always had a more "coherent" plan. That - and there aren't a half-dozen motherboard manufacturers who are competing on price. The other thing is that USB 2.0 has some serious compatability issues with high-speed mode. I can't get my 2.0 hub to connect to my 2.0 card, although it works fine out of my 1.1 ports. However - that would defeat the purpose wouldn't it? By preventing real competition, Intel and Windows were able to finally correct the deficiencies in USB without losing any customers. LOL! They don't sell Apple on your planet? :-) |
#72
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
"y_p_w" wrote in message
om... "Richard Crowley" wrote in message ... "Bill Van Dyk" wrote ... Firewire worked fabulously for many years before USB finally became at all functional. The only reason USB even remained in the market is because of the dominant position of Wintel, which is able to shove deficient and defective technologies down our throats. Now, users say, what's the problem-- USB works fine! Yes, now it finally does. As a hardware designer, I can assure you that where IEEE 1394 is great for a few bus devices running high rates, USB is much better for multiple low- to moderate-rate devices. FireWire (AKA IEEE 1394a or Sony iLink) was never meant to serve low-speed devices such as a keyboard or mouse. It's also a more expensive technology to implement. Right. The price difference isn't all that significant on a $1000 camcorder, but it sure is on a $10 mouse (where also the speed is totally overkill)! A low-cost serial bus technology will always have a place as long as their are cheap peripherals that need to be connected to the PC (e.g. mice, keyboards, even those really cheap memory card readers). We've almost always had at least 2 different connections available, a "cheap slow" one and a "expensive fast" one. It used to be serial and SCSI. Now it is USB and 1394. |
#73
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
On 5-Dec-2003, "Jon Harris" wrote: FireWire (AKA IEEE 1394a or Sony iLink) was never meant to serve low-speed devices such as a keyboard or mouse. It's also a more expensive technology to implement. Right. The price difference isn't all that significant on a $1000 camcorder, but it sure is on a $10 mouse (where also the speed is totally overkill)! A low-cost serial bus technology will always have a place as long as their are cheap peripherals that need to be connected to the PC (e.g. mice, keyboards, even those really cheap memory card readers). We've almost always had at least 2 different connections available, a "cheap slow" one and a "expensive fast" one. It used to be serial and SCSI. Now it is USB and 1394. I thought that Apple had a design for a real cheap, real slow connector designed for stuff such as keyboards when they were working on Firewire. I suppose USB replaced it. |
#74
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
"y_p_w" wrote in message
om... "Richard Crowley" wrote in message ... Apple has always had a more "coherent" plan. That - and there aren't a half-dozen motherboard manufacturers who are competing on price. Which is one of the main reasons that PC's have such a large market share. If Apple had licensed its technology, instead of keeping it for themselves, I think Macs would be the standard. And Steve Jobs would be in the position Bill Gates is in today. |
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