Wireless Connections

On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 19:55:02 -0700, scarecrow wrote:

"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote:

On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 13:14:09 -0700, scarecrow

With my memory starved Windows 32 GB tablet (Asus T100)


You don't mean *memory* starved.

Yes I do.

Perhaps I should have said 'internal' memory if you are confused but
memory is what it is.

"Computer data storage, often called storage or memory",

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_data_storage

Very few of us have computers with
32-GB of *memory*,

Mine does. Perhaps you meant 32 GB of RAM?

You mean disk-space starved.

No I don't.

There's no mechanical 'disk' anywhere in this machine.

"Storage size for the unit includes a 64 GB eMMC internal memory"

http://www.kpopstarz.com/articles/14...view-specs.htm

Please don't mix the
two terms up. In this case, I didn't have any trouble understanding
what you meant, but it's very easy to mislead and confuse people if
you don't correctly differentiate between the two terms.

Yes teacher.

But wouldn't the teacher have shown more skill to use the more exact
terms RAM and SSD in his lesson?

I find hunting
and destroying unnecessary files a good thing. I can usually find a GB
or so in just few months. Many Apps are just plain hoarders.
The MS News app and the Google cache are two good examples.
I imagine that they just
figure most are running 500 GB drives these days so why not.


Yes, I didn't say and I didn't mean that deleting unneeded files
wasn't a good thing. My point was that doing so does not speed up your
computer. Yes, it can save you disk space, and (although for most of
us, it hardly matters), for some people, that savings can be very
valuable.

My comment was just an observation that there are times when clearing
out the files is a good thing. Especially when you have a computer
with only 32 GB of memory...

Well, I agree with Ken and disagree with you.

"Memory" is usually reserved to mean RAM and storage to mean a disk
drive or equivalent.

Here's a copy and paste from a ZDNet review (since Asus wasn't helpful -
they sent me to a Japanese site, which I can't read):

QUOTE
Processor 1.33 GHz Intel Atom Quad-core (Bay Trail)
Memory 2GB
Display 10.1-inch, 1366x768, IPS
Camera 1.2MP
OS Windows 8.1
Storage 32GB SSD
/QUOTE

I replaced the tabs with spaces for clarity.

Long and short URLs:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/six-mon...indows-hybrid/

http://tinyurl.com/plhkzxh

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote:

"Memory" is usually reserved to mean RAM and storage to mean a disk
drive or equivalent.

Your key word there is "usually". But RAM a better term and leaves no
doubt. As perhaps storage would have been in my post.

But when I was complaining about my memory starved 32 GB T100 computer
did you really have any doubt as to what I meant? If I really had 32
GB of RAM would I be complaining?? IMO the context left no doubt.
Except in the mind of our resident condescending AH teacher of course.

Here's a copy and paste from a ZDNet review (since Asus wasn't helpful -
they sent me to a Japanese site, which I can't read):

QUOTE
Memory 2GB
Storage 32GB SSD

I see yours and raise you one: From a Walmart ad:

"Asus T100 10.1" Tablet 64GB Memory Windows 8.1"

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Refurbishe...-Touc/29461851

On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 21:15:14 -0700, scarecrow
wrote:

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote:

"Memory" is usually reserved to mean RAM and storage to mean a disk
drive or equivalent.

Your key word there is "usually". But RAM a better term and leaves no
doubt. As perhaps storage would have been in my post.

But when I was complaining about my memory starved 32 GB T100 computer
did you really have any doubt as to what I meant? If I really had 32
GB of RAM would I be complaining?? IMO the context left no doubt.
Except in the mind of our resident condescending AH teacher of course.

Here's a copy and paste from a ZDNet review (since Asus wasn't helpful -
they sent me to a Japanese site, which I can't read):

QUOTE
Memory 2GB
Storage 32GB SSD

I see yours and raise you one: From a Walmart ad:

"Asus T100 10.1" Tablet 64GB Memory Windows 8.1"

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Refurbishe...-Touc/29461851


You win. Technical cites don't get any better than walmart.com.

Char Jackson wrote:

On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 21:15:14 -0700, scarecrow

"Asus T100 10.1" Tablet 64GB Memory Windows 8.1"

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Refurbishe...-Touc/29461851

You win. Technical cites don't get any better than walmart.com.

Thanks. A laptop review website any better for you?

"The Transformer Book T100's 64GB of eMMc memory booted into Windows
8.1 in a modest 17 seconds, about on par with the 16.5-second category
average."

http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/tab...rmer-book-t100

On 2/27/2015 12:32 AM, scarecrow wrote:
You win. Technical cites don't get any better than walmart.com.
Thanks. A laptop review website any better for you?

"The Transformer Book T100's 64GB of eMMc memory booted into Windows
8.1 in a modest 17 seconds, about on par with the 16.5-second category
average."

http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/tab...rmer-book-t100

I have no statistics but from reading several help forums for various
computer system and software, I believe that at least 25 to 30% of the
problems people have when asking for help is using terms that confuse
the people trying to help. 32GB of memory vs 32 GB of permanent
storage would certainly confuse any one requesting help. Another problem
is when people ask for help and say they have Windows 8 when in fact
they have Windows 8 RT. It makes a difference.

Apps is another miss used term. I have seen it used for a program of
with significant lines of code to a shortcut on someones browser
toolbar. Again the implication in asking questions is significant.

I sometime think the technogeeks use confusing language to keep the
mystery in computers, so they can continue getting their big pay checks.

If you have a problem you will get better and quicker resolution if you
take the time to learn as much as you can about your problem and ask the
question in commonly accepted terminology of the people you are asking
the question

On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 19:29:42 -0800, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 19:55:02 -0700, scarecrow wrote:

"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote:

On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 13:14:09 -0700, scarecrow

With my memory starved Windows 32 GB tablet (Asus T100)


You don't mean *memory* starved.

Yes I do.

Perhaps I should have said 'internal' memory if you are confused but
memory is what it is.

"Computer data storage, often called storage or memory",

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_data_storage

Very few of us have computers with
32-GB of *memory*,

Mine does. Perhaps you meant 32 GB of RAM?

You mean disk-space starved.

No I don't.

There's no mechanical 'disk' anywhere in this machine.

"Storage size for the unit includes a 64 GB eMMC internal memory"

http://www.kpopstarz.com/articles/14...view-specs.htm

Please don't mix the
two terms up. In this case, I didn't have any trouble understanding
what you meant, but it's very easy to mislead and confuse people if
you don't correctly differentiate between the two terms.

Yes teacher.

But wouldn't the teacher have shown more skill to use the more exact
terms RAM and SSD in his lesson?

I find hunting
and destroying unnecessary files a good thing. I can usually find a GB
or so in just few months. Many Apps are just plain hoarders.
The MS News app and the Google cache are two good examples.
I imagine that they just
figure most are running 500 GB drives these days so why not.


Yes, I didn't say and I didn't mean that deleting unneeded files
wasn't a good thing. My point was that doing so does not speed up your
computer. Yes, it can save you disk space, and (although for most of
us, it hardly matters), for some people, that savings can be very
valuable.

My comment was just an observation that there are times when clearing
out the files is a good thing. Especially when you have a computer
with only 32 GB of memory...

Well, I agree with Ken and disagree with you.

"Memory" is usually reserved to mean RAM and storage to mean a disk
drive or equivalent.


Yes. "Or equivalent" is key here. I am well aware that tablets never
(or at least almost never) have mechanical disk drives; although there
are no physical disks in an SSD, an SSD is an *equivalent* of a disk
drive. I use the word "disk" very loosely in what I posted, because
it's important not to use the word "memory" the way he used it, since
it is likely to confuse people.

And of course even a physical disk drive is a *kind* of memory.
However in the computer world the term is not used that way; do so
only if you don't care if readers of your message get confused.

On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 21:15:14 -0700, scarecrow
wrote:

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote:

"Memory" is usually reserved to mean RAM and storage to mean a disk
drive or equivalent.

Your key word there is "usually". But RAM a better term and leaves no
doubt. As perhaps storage would have been in my post.


Yes, my point exactly.


But when I was complaining about my memory starved 32 GB T100 computer
did you really have any doubt as to what I meant?



As I said, "In this case, I didn't have any trouble understanding what
you meant, but it's very easy to mislead and confuse people if you
don't correctly differentiate between the two terms." I don't want to
speak for Gene, but I greatly doubt whether he had any trouble either.

On Fri, 27 Feb 2015 07:43:01 -0500, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

I have no statistics but from reading several help forums for various
computer system and software, I believe that at least 25 to 30% of the
problems people have when asking for help is using terms that confuse
the people trying to help. 32GB of memory vs 32 GB of permanent
storage would certainly confuse any one requesting help. Another problem
is when people ask for help and say they have Windows 8 when in fact
they have Windows 8 RT. It makes a difference.


Yes. Or Outlook when they mean Outlook Express or Outlook.com.


Apps is another miss used term. I have seen it used for a program of
with significant lines of code to a shortcut on someones browser
toolbar. Again the implication in asking questions is significant.


Yes.


I sometime think the technogeeks use confusing language to keep the
mystery in computers, so they can continue getting their big pay checks.

If you have a problem you will get better and quicker resolution if you
take the time to learn as much as you can about your problem and ask the
question in commonly accepted terminology of the people you are asking
the question


Yes. "Commonly accepted terminology" is key.

On Fri, 27 Feb 2015 07:43:01 -0500, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

I have no statistics but from reading several help forums for various
computer system and software, I believe that at least 25 to 30% of the
problems people have when asking for help is using terms that confuse
the people trying to help. 32GB of memory vs 32 GB of permanent
storage would certainly confuse any one requesting help. Another problem
is when people ask for help and say they have Windows 8 when in fact
they have Windows 8 RT. It makes a difference.

Apps is another miss used term. I have seen it used for a program of
with significant lines of code to a shortcut on someones browser
toolbar. Again the implication in asking questions is significant.

I sometime think the technogeeks use confusing language to keep the
mystery in computers, so they can continue getting their big pay checks.

If you have a problem you will get better and quicker resolution if you
take the time to learn as much as you can about your problem and ask the
question in commonly accepted terminology of the people you are asking
the question

Along those lines, I wish a certain lady would stop calling me to tell me
that the Internet is down. Ma'am, the Internet isn't down. :-)

In her case, she seems to pick up malware every month or so that hijacks IE
and points it at a proxy server. MBAM cleans it up, but doesn't reset IE's
proxy settings, so IE points to a dead proxy and no pages load. Easy fix,
and much easier than bringing up the Internet if it were down.

Keith Nuttle wrote:

I have no statistics but from reading several help forums for various
computer system and software, I believe that at least 25 to 30% of the
problems people have when asking for help is using terms that confuse
the people trying to help.


32GB of memory vs 32 GB of permanent
storage would certainly confuse any one requesting help.

Maybe, but not in my case.

1. If you ask any non-technical person how much memory his tablet has
he will invariably give you the storage memory, not RAM.

2. Tell any technical person that your tablet has 32GB of memory and
he will invariably understand that you mean storage memory. not RAM.

So in my case when I said my tablet has 32GB of memory both the tech
and non-tech people should have understood me if 1 and 2 above are
reasonable assumptions.

On Fri, 27 Feb 2015 17:32:02 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Feb 2015 10:14:11 -0700, scarecrow
wrote:


So in my case when I said my tablet has 32GB of memory both the tech
and non-tech people should have understood me if 1 and 2 above are
reasonable assumptions.

Any engineer / technician worth their daily salt will never make assumptions.

If something is in doubt, the problem solver is responsible for clarifying the
issue. If clarifying assertions of the customer is too tedious, then the
service provider should find a new occupation or hobby as they will end up
making errors, doing harm or wasting resources. IMHO.


A strong ditto!

Stormin' Norman wrote:

scarecrow wrote:

1. If you ask any non-technical person how much memory his tablet has
he will invariably give you the storage memory, not RAM.

2. Tell any technical person that your tablet has 32GB of memory and
he will invariably understand that you mean storage memory. not RAM.

So in my case when I said my tablet has 32GB of memory both the tech
and non-tech people should have understood me if 1 and 2 above are
reasonable assumptions.

Any engineer / technician worth their daily salt will never make assumptions.

I notice that you didn't refute my assumptions. Perhaps because
they're not only reasonable but invariably true.

If something is in doubt,

But nothing was in doubt in my particular statement. Or did I actually
confuse you and you thought that my Asus tablet actually had 32 GB of
RAM?

the problem solver is responsible for clarifying the
issue. If clarifying assertions of the customer is too tedious, then the
service provider should find a new occupation or hobby as they will end up
making errors, doing harm or wasting resources. IMHO.

And if one was confused that my (or any) tablet actually has 32 GB of
RAM then perhaps they are the one who should be looking for another
hobby or occupation. IMHO.

"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote:

I am well aware that tablets never
(or at least almost never) have mechanical disk drives;

although there
are no physical disks in an SSD, an SSD is an *equivalent* of a disk
drive.

I use the word "disk" very loosely

You used the word '"disk" loosely as I used the word "memory" loosely
perhaps?

in what I posted, because
it's important not to use the word "memory" the way he used it, since
it is likely to confuse people.

Saying a tablet has a disk won't confuse people?

And of course even a physical disk drive is a *kind* of memory.
However in the computer world the term is not used that way; do so
only if you don't care if readers of your message get confused.

There are hundreds of links (according to Google) where the word
"memory" is used to mean storage memory. Context usually removes any
confusion.

On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 21:15:14 -0700, scarecrow wrote:

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote:

"Memory" is usually reserved to mean RAM and storage to mean a disk
drive or equivalent.

Your key word there is "usually". But RAM a better term and leaves no
doubt. As perhaps storage would have been in my post.

But when I was complaining about my memory starved 32 GB T100 computer
did you really have any doubt as to what I meant? If I really had 32
GB of RAM would I be complaining?? IMO the context left no doubt.
Except in the mind of our resident condescending AH teacher of course.

I didn't care, although I would have bet that the tablet had only 1 or 2
GB of memory, like most of them.

It was only when I saw your responses to Ken - and the tone thereof -
that I decided to say something.

Here's a copy and paste from a ZDNet review (since Asus wasn't helpful -
they sent me to a Japanese site, which I can't read):

QUOTE
Memory 2GB
Storage 32GB SSD

I see yours and raise you one: From a Walmart ad:

"Asus T100 10.1" Tablet 64GB Memory Windows 8.1"

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Refurbishe...-Touc/29461851

I didn't even look at the Walmart link (which had also turned up in my
search), since I preferred a more authoritative source. Even so, I still
had to compromise.

I would have used the Asus link if I could read Japanese :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Fri, 27 Feb 2015 13:18:54 -0700, scarecrow
wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote:

scarecrow wrote:

1. If you ask any non-technical person how much memory his tablet has
he will invariably give you the storage memory, not RAM.

2. Tell any technical person that your tablet has 32GB of memory and
he will invariably understand that you mean storage memory. not RAM.

So in my case when I said my tablet has 32GB of memory both the tech
and non-tech people should have understood me if 1 and 2 above are
reasonable assumptions.

Any engineer / technician worth their daily salt will never make assumptions.

I notice that you didn't refute my assumptions. Perhaps because
they're not only reasonable but invariably true.

No, probably because it is not worth arguing.

[snip]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko